only browsed through the thread, but for the non-saxon areas, the dark ages in mainland Britain was known as the age of saints. Look forward to the mod.
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only browsed through the thread, but for the non-saxon areas, the dark ages in mainland Britain was known as the age of saints. Look forward to the mod.
Also wanted to say some good research is being done here, I'm an archaeology student at one of the Tribal/Roman civitas towns and live in the area so will look forward to seeing a good map of the area!!
MORIDVNVM [DEMETARVM] (Carmarthen, Dyfed), so its of great interest.
Hi Dragoon, and welcome to the .org!
Perhaps you could help us with a problem I'm having with research, could you possibly find out anything you can about galwyddel (galloway) specifically the armies as i need to know what AoR unit they will be getting.
thanks
Right
FACTION LIST
Playables
BRITONS (Christian)
- Domnonia
- Rheged
- Powys
- Gwynedd
- Gododdin
- Strathclyde
- Ebrauc
- Elmet
- Ynis Manaw & Galwyddel
- Gwent & Glywysing
- Dyfed
IRISH (Christian)
- Ui Neill
- Mumainha
- Dal Riada
PICTS
- Picts (Christians about this date and the conversion by St Ninnian)
GERMANS
- Saxons (Pagans)
- Angles (Pagans)
- Juts (Pagans)
- Bretwalda (Pagan)
- Franks (Christians during the reign of Clovis)
As you can see i got rid off the Wisigoths, at the moment i need to have a Senate/three factions thing so i went with that...For cultures i think we should do this....
Saxon (Roman)
Angles (Julii)
Saxons (Scipii)
Jutes (Brutii)
Bretwalda (Senate)
Northern Briton (Greek)
Rheged (Seleucid)
Ebrauc (Macedon)
Manau and Galwyddel (Greece)
Elmet (Thrace)
Frankish (Egyptian)
Franks (Egypt)
Southern British (Eastern)
Dumnonia (Parthia)
Gwynedd (Armenia)
Powys (Pontus)
Gaels and Picts (Barbarian)
Ui Neill (British)
Mumainha (Gauls)
Dal Riada (Germania)
Picts (Scythia)
Strathclyde (dacia)
Middle Britons and Brittany (Carthaginian)
Gwent (Carthage)
Dyfed (Numidia)
Llydaw (Spain, need to find out how to change a factions culture)
hopefully thats alright, what do you think?
Hi!
First pics from the Camp Map are in....
Not finished yet but heres the overall layout of the map...
https://img65.imageshack.us/img65/6096/image23xs.th.jpg
and here's Wales with my first go at making mountains
https://img65.imageshack.us/img65/6802/image31ad.th.jpg
Please let me know what you think....and give me tips as to what i should do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ian_of_smeg16
I can see what I can find, but I won't have access to my univerity library for another couple of weeks ( disgustingly long summer holidays ).
I will have a look around the net in the mean time.
http://www.tartans.com/articles/antoninewall.html
This site gives a description of the antonine wall ( north of Hadriens ).
The Scots/Picts/Irish it says learnt the value of Plunder...this could imply that later periods of Scottish based troops would have like a mercenary look to them, incoperating elements of roman armour.
Perhaps they could have a Romano-British/Scandanavian/Saxon look.
This is conjecture for now....but i'll keep digging.
@Ian
Well, I thought we will use the BI campaign, not the vanilla one, except if there is a way to include all of the news features into this one. As I have read there will be factions slots remaining in the BI campaign, and eventually the possibility to put more that 20 factions... we will see it later !Quote:
As you can see i got rid off the Wisigoths, at the moment i need to have a Senate/three factions thing so i went with that...For cultures i think we should do this....
Saxon (Roman)
Angles (Julii)
Saxons (Scipii)
Jutes (Brutii)
Bretwalda (Senate)
Northern Briton (Greek)
Rheged (Seleucid)
Ebrauc (Macedon)
Manau and Galwyddel (Greece)
Elmet (Thrace)
Frankish (Egyptian)
Franks (Egypt)
Southern British (Eastern)
Dumnonia (Parthia)
Gwynedd (Armenia)
Powys (Pontus)
Gaels and Picts (Barbarian)
Ui Neill (British)
Mumainha (Gauls)
Dal Riada (Germania)
Picts (Scythia)
Strathclyde (dacia)
Middle Britons and Brittany (Carthaginian)
Gwent (Carthage)
Dyfed (Numidia)
Llydaw (Spain, need to find out how to change a factions culture)
We talk a lot about the Wisigoths... anyway there will be wisigoths troops as rebels so no real matter.
Your bretwalda idea is a good one, but it may be a bit to hard to code at the begin. We will see if we kept it if we use vanilla campaign.
You have also add Llydaw as a playable faction. What I have think firstly was to share Brittany between Domnonia, Dyfed, rebels, maybe Gwent, because it will put another challenge to those factions.
Maybe we will finally keep a breton faction, or 3 (if possible : Kernow, Domnonée and Bro-Erec) or put them as emerging factions...
For the map, can't you up the scale to the max you can ? It will need a lot of work then, but it will be very fine.
The borders are ok ~;)
For the mountains, is it the height shown there ? Wales have a lot of provinces so we need passages ~D
If you have some satellites photos to help it will be very fine !
Anyway, continue this way, I don't know lot of things about mapping :book:
@Dragoon : nice to see another historian with us !
About the Dal Riadans and the others Gaëls, Ranika have done a lot with them, and I got a good idea of them after seeing some skins of Age of Vikings and Fanatics (they got the same units as us for the Gaëls).
For the Picts, as shown on their stones wich much carvings, they will fight unarmoured, except for their elite who will wear chain/scale mail and helmets ~:cheers:
I have some information about certain tribes of North Britain.
Firstly, Strathclyde was a Brythonic/British Kingdom, not a Goidelic/Gaelic one.
Secondly, next to nothing is known of the Picts, however, they were not thought to be Gaels but they may have been brythonic. There is evidence of Saxon migration into Pictish lands from the continent, so perhaps they may also be slightly saxon in their ways. We don't know much about their language, but it is thought also to be a British language by many.
Ok about it, I guess that Ian put them with the Gaels only to put them with a culture !Quote:
Firstly, Strathclyde was a Brythonic/British Kingdom, not a Goidelic/Gaelic one.
It might be an option to put some saxon mercs in a part of Scotland ~D .
Some news about AoR units, with Ian's help and Ranika comments :
- Gwent : maybe christian fanatics. There was a lot of monasteries in this area. -> Christian fanatics would likely appear anywhere where Christians in the region felt threatened by outsiders
- Dyfed : a Brytho-Gael elite soldier -> this works fine; I'd recommend the Galwyddel Ymyll from St. Columba's 'Deithronnbagh', where he described some Welsh soldiers; they carried a Gaelic axe and shield, and wore bronze scale armor, but dressed like Cymrians (Welshmen); mind you 'Galwyddel' just means 'Gaelic'; the region of 'Galwyddel' was so called for the large Gaelic speaking population
- Powys : elite archers - this seems alright
- Ebrauc : an elite soldier with good romans weapons -> such soldiers were present in most of Romanized Britain as a type of quasi-elite
- Rheged : a mountain warrior, maybe mounted
- Gododdin : special cavalry, or brytho-pict unit -> Gododdin had famous longspearmen called 'Aumabellu'; perhaps that'd work, but I know little of the details
- Galwyddel : axemen maybe -> nobles from this region used two-handed wood axes sometimes, though they'd be decorated a bit
- Strathclyde : a kind of pirate? -> a swordsmen who used a longsword in two-hands would be good here; not greatswordsmen, but Strathclyders sometimes used swords with elongated grips
So I will add some of them tommorow.
Yeah, Agreas the reason i put in the Bretwalda Idea is because i need to edit the Descr_strat file while doing the map, therefore the Senate thing is hardcoded.
@Malcolm Iput the Strathclyde factin in the Gaels + Picts culture because i needed to find a culture for it, but i am in the process of finding out how to change a factions culture, so it won't be a problem....I think sombody in the Scriptorium asked about changing culture so I'll look in there
Hello ATW Team. I was asked if I could do some skins for this mod, but I'm kind of busy just now but I'll try and do a couple. Theres a Pict Militia unit I made, theres a picture of it in the Britannia: Romanorum Incursio Skins thread. It might be suitable for ATW. That units still in development though.
Well, good news at all !
I will receive my new PC next week, then I will be able to scan images and I will create a ftp server to put our work online.
Thrashaholic have lot of work to do yet, so maybe someone can complete the descriptions of the following units ?
Galwyddel Ymyll
Need to control Dyfed.
The Galwyddel Ymyll from St. Columba's 'Deithronnbagh', where he described some Welsh soldiers; they carried a Gaelic axe and shield, and wore bronze scale armor, but dressed like Cymrians (Welshmen); mind you 'Galwyddel' just means 'Gaelic'; the region of 'Galwyddel' was so called for the large Gaelic speaking population
Saethwre Powys
Need to control Powys.
Composite bow, sword, coat, leather scale armor.
Rhyfelwyr Rheged
Need to control South or North Rheged.
A mountain warrior.
Sword, round shield, chain mail, throwing javelines.
Aumabellu
Need to control Gododdin.
Gododdin had famous longspearmen called 'Aumabellu'
Long spear, round shield, scale mail, coat.
Galwyddel nobles axemen*
Need to control Galwyddel.
Nobles from this region used two-handed wood axes sometimes, though they'd be decorated a bit.
Two-handed wood axes, chain mail, helmet.
Strathclyder Swordsmen*
Strathclyders who used a longsword in two-hands would be good here; not greatswordsmen, but Strathclyders sometimes used swords with elongated grips.
Sword, round shield on the back, leather cuirass, spangelhelm.
Having a more careful look at the factions, I guess it will be better (if we use vanilla factions) to do with :
Saxon (Roman)
Saxons (Julii)
Angles (Scipii)
Jutes (Brutii)
Bretwalda (Senate)
Northern Briton (Greek)
Rheged (Seleucid)
Gododdin (Macedon)
Ebrauc (Greece)
Strathclyde (Thrace)
Frankish (Egyptian)
Franks (Egypt)
Middle Britons (Eastern)
Elmet (Parthia)
Gwynedd (Armenia)
Powys (Pontus)
Gaels and Picts (Barbarian)
Ui Neill (Germania)
Mumainha (Gauls)
Dal Riada (Britons)
Picts (Dacia)
Manau and Galwyddel (Scythia)
Southern Britons (Carthaginian)
Domnonia (Carthage)
Gwent (Numidia)
Dyfed (Spain, need to find out how to change a factions culture)
Ok that sounds better, BTW i need info on the provinces of Brittany and the rest of France, any ideas Agreas?
I think you have all you need for Britain and Ireland there : https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...8&postcount=43 ~;)
Maybe you will only need to know the location on some towns.
I have included in the list the provinces of Gaul occuped by the Britons.
GAUL, Britons :
- Kernyw - Carahès (Carhaix) -> Dyfed province (the first rulers of Kernyw were of Gwent and Dyfed origin)
- Poher - Castel Conomore -> Domnoniuan province
- Domnonée - Alet -> Domnoniuan province
- Bro-Erec - Aula Regia (Auray) -> Gwent province
- Darioritum - Darioritum (Vannes) -> rebel province (until Waroch of Bro-Erec conquest it in the late VIth century, or early VIIth, I cant remember ~D ).
A little map of Brittany that I have just made with paint ~D
https://img303.imageshack.us/img303/...tany0wb.th.png
I have put differents files on a ftp server. This ftp will allow us to upload images, screenshots, files, tga... to work on the mod and to share this work much easily.
For this time I'm uploading images for our skinners to work, concept arts and others. They are in the 'art' section.
You will need a ftp client to join it (like SmartFTP or other) :
Adress : ftp.membres.lycos.fr
Login : subliminaltpe
Pass : please PM or MSN me if you want it ~D
I have found some very nice images at DBA online :
http://www.dbaol.com/images/faces/1182_face.jpg
Britons.
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_82_figure_1.htm
Picts.
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_67_figure_1.htm
Saxons.
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_75a_figure_1.htm
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_75b_figure_1.htm
Welsh :
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_92_figure_1.htm
Late Romans (West) :
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_77a_figure_1.htm
Late Wisigoths :
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_80_figure_1.htm
Patrician Romans :
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_81_figure_1.htm
DBAs Irish and Scots never look appropriate; they tend to make them look like Gauls or early Britons, which is badly inaccurate, or they exaggerate things like the size of levies'/light horsemen's cloaks (giving them full-length cloaks when they should be much much shorter), and depict them with beards (which wasn't very popular at all until the viking invasions, and even then only in a few regions).
I take note of that and I edit my previous post ~:)
The most appropriate depiction DBA has of a Gaelic soldier is probably the 'warband', but the problem there is that average Gaelic soldiers in this period (and most others) mostly used axes, not swords; he looks more like lower aristocracy, and the length of his cloak is far too great for him to be a 'warband', and the beard was mentioned. The 'psiloi' they give them are all wrong; they look like Britons, and not at all Gaelic (which would look like the 'warband', but with trousers as well, a slightly shorter shirt, and a much much shorter cloak, and a sling and knife, or spears and javelins). Additionally, Gaels in this period need neck torcs (Celtic units in EB have neck torcs; they can be seen in previews and the like)
I have edited the unit list after adding some images (for Britons, Picts, Franks and Saxons).
I just borrowed "The Age of Arthur A History of the British Isles from 350 to 650 AD" its about 650 pages of research archeology and information on the post roman briton world including all the areas in your mod if you wan i can start posting information from the book if it would be helpful
I planned to buy this book but I need to command it on the net, so eventually if you have already it and if you want to work with us, you are welcome ! ~D
It's a useful book for reference, but most historians consider his conclusions to be deeply dubious- the author has a tendency to stretch paper thin evidence to breaking point in attempting to reconstruct post Roman Britain.
I borrowed it from the library, but lucky my library allows you to keep things indefinetly as long as you call every 2 weeks to tell them you want to take it out another 2 weeks. Well whats needed most? factions, faction borders for 481 AD, names, rulers, units types buildings and fortifications. Im gonan start on faction borders if you dont mind, cause this is where the author mentions alot of archeology, grave goods ect.... So it should be quite accurate. Ill get some research out later today.
You can give us :Quote:
Well whats needed most? factions, faction borders for 481 AD, names, rulers, units types buildings and fortifications.
- faction descriptions and general history to be included in the mod.
- faction borders will help to make the map.
- ok for units type if you have, this will maybe help adding new units or complete the descriptions of the existing ones.
- for buildings, I think we will work later on it, thought you can search after it.
- for the differents rulers, it is not a priority at the moment.
I have found some Frankish stuff on the web :
https://img399.imageshack.us/img399/...lderic16tg.jpg
https://img399.imageshack.us/img399/...ilderic0cb.jpg
Childeric, the father of Clovis.
https://img399.imageshack.us/img399/...helmet38hm.gif
https://img247.imageshack.us/img247/...helmet23hf.jpg
Frankish helmets.
https://img247.imageshack.us/img247/...nksword6al.gif
Sword pommel and piece of scabbard from the Childeric' grave.
https://img247.imageshack.us/img247/...roboots9lo.jpg
Merovingian boots from the VIIth century.
I update also the unit list with more Frankish units.
Mounted Antrustions (King’s Warband)
For ages, the power of the Franks tribes relied on infantry. But when they arrived in Gaul, they had to face the powerful cavalry of the Wisigoths, and of the Alemani. Then the Frankish elite begun to learn how to fight on horseback, to became centuries later the powerful frankish knights.
Gallic light cavalry
Frankish army is not only made of Frankish warriors. They can also raise some Gallo-Romans soldiers, such as those horsemen.
Few Franks are good riders, so those Gallic are a good complement to their army.
Infantry :
Antrustions
The Antrustions are the elite warriors of the Franks, and the bodyguards of the kings and princes.
Those footmen are raised and equipped from the pockets of the powerful nobles of the Franks.
After they captured Soissons in 495 the Franks had access to Roman arms factories and could equip their men better than most Germans with chainmail or scale armor, shields, spears, helms and throwing axes.
Sturdy heavy infantry.
Foederati
A lot of rankish warriors have served in the Roman army and are equipped in a slightly Roman style with chainmail, angons, helms, swords and shields. Very good attackers who throw their angons before charging.
Frankish Warriors
Tribal warriors, unarmoured but armed with shields, spears and throwing axes. A fierce barbarian levy, not organised or with great morale, but fairly nasty on the offensive.
Miles
'Miles' means 'soldiers' in latin. Those warriors are raised from the gallo-romans cities and equipped in the roman way with spear, helm and shield.
Frankish champions
Among the ranks of the frankish troops, some warriors are from the best, experts in the way of war, and of the usage of the franscica.
Chainmail, shield, franscica, coat.
Skirmishers :
Frankish Freemen
The poorest tribesmen have very few weapons and no armor. They throw javelines and then can fight with their seax, but their poor moral keep them as a skirmishing role.
Frankish archers
Thought it wasn't the weapon of the nobility, the usage of the bow is attested by his presence in a lot of frankish graves.
Frankish archers use the powerful hunnic bow, and can be very deadly but vulnerable in melee.
Good news !
I have just received my new PC, and I will install it this evening, so then I can work harder on the mod ~:)