OOC Thread and Chatroom

Exactly!!

On an entirely different topic I'd like to ask what the rules have to say on unit ownership. It just came to me, now that my character is sitting around in his lords city. I have control over my character and once I'm in the field I also have control over all troops accompanying me. But what control do I have over the potential garrison? No control? Complete control? The same as the Megas, meaning I have to follow the Status and Orders thread?

Just wondering if just wandering off with all the garrison would be an IC problem or if this would transgress into OOC rule breaking. Not that I have anything planned, mind. Let's call it general curiosity! :beam:

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

Just don't spread it around. I have a reputation of being stubborn, surly, cranky, and unreasonable to uphold. :wink:

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So true PK, so true. :quiet:

Your secret is safe with me and the members of all the Iluminati version 2 brethern.

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Originally Posted by Ituralde

On an entirely different topic I'd like to ask what the rules have to say on unit ownership. It just came to me, now that my character is sitting around in his lords city. I have control over my character and once I'm in the field I also have control over all troops accompanying me. But what control do I have over the potential garrison? No control? Complete control? The same as the Megas, meaning I have to follow the Status and Orders thread?

Just wondering if just wandering off with all the garrison would be an IC problem or if this would transgress into OOC rule breaking. Not that I have anything planned, mind. Let's call it general curiosity! :beam:

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You can take your avatar out of the city. And if you controlled the city, you could put the garrison into your army. But since you don't, you'd have to have the city's lord's permission. I'm going by this part of rule 1.4:

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Players can move their avatars, move any army (Private, Royal, or otherwise) their avatar commands, move any military units that start the turn inside a settlement they control (garrison units), move any military units that start the turn inside a fort in a province they control (fort units), and fight any battles against the AI that they are capable of fighting with their avatar’s army.

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So, as far as I can tell, taking the garrison without their lord's permission would be an OOC matter. Now the Megas can take the garrison as long as there are no restrictions in the SOT preventing it.

Also, when your out in the field with the garrison, the Megas still can take them out of your stack or disband them since they are not a legal army.

If you do not own the city, you cannot take the units out of the garrison without the permission of the owner of the city. There are two exceptions. First, if there were some units in the garrison that the owner was allowing to be removed freely (i.e. there are 5 units in the city, and the SOT orders are to leave 3 in the city). In that case, the units could be moved by or with the permission of the Megas, instead of the owner of the settlement. Second, you are the designated commander of a Private/Royal Army and the army is located inside the settlement at the start of the turn. As the commander of a Private/Royal Army, you get complete control over how that army is moved. So, you could move it freely, as long as you made sure to leave the non-PA/RA units behind.

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

Also, when your out in the field with the garrison, the Megas still can take them out of your stack or disband them since they are not a legal army.

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Ah I didn't realize this. Thanks for the answers. The whole matter is a lot clearer to me now. :2thumbsup:

Would it be possible to move my avatar, hire mercenaries with my own money without permission (or with money borrowed/given to me by another avatar, like the Lord of my House or the Megas), take a settlement, sack it, keep the money for my own and continue as a renegade with his own mini-empire?

Or is that equal to starting a civil war or would it make my character the head of a rebel faction?

Money is one of the things that, ultimately, the Megas controls. Essentially if you're going to rebel you need to have the Megas' neutrality at a minimum, and hopefully his tacit or active approval, otherwise it's going to be a tough row to hoe. :skull:

That being said, you can set up a rebel empire of sorts by conquering cities, but until you get some of the higher order powers in the feudal chain it will be very difficult to build anything or train any troops to protect those cities.

:egypt:

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Originally Posted by Andres

Would it be possible to move my avatar, hire mercenaries with my own money without permission (or with money borrowed/given to me by another avatar, like the Lord of my House or the Megas), take a settlement, sack it, keep the money for my own and continue as a renegade with his own mini-empire?

Or is that equal to starting a civil war or would it make my character the head of a rebel faction?

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You can never hire mercenaries or recruit without the Megas permission. Like Ramses said, you'll need their neutrality at least. If you go up against the Megas, you are stuck with what you have. And during a civil war against the Megas, he doesn't even have to legally fill your private or royal armies.

The lesson to learn from the discussion of Ituralde's and your questions is: be nice to your Megas. :beam:

With his assistance (or apathy) you can do a lot. Without it, you still can do things but you will need to have a whole lot of resources ahead of time.

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Originally Posted by Andres

Would it be possible to move my avatar, hire mercenaries with my own money without permission (or with money borrowed/given to me by another avatar, like the Lord of my House or the Megas), take a settlement, sack it, keep the money for my own and continue as a renegade with his own mini-empire?

Or is that equal to starting a civil war or would it make my character the head of a rebel faction?

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I would actually encourage anyone who wants to do something like this to contact the Megas OOC and discuss it. The Megas player has the final say in the matter, but if he thinks it might be a fun plotline, he could easily support your efforts OOC (at least for a while) while opposing them IC. This is what I personally did during my Chancellorship with Max Mandorf, when I helped GH and OK knock off the Pope, even thought my avatar was one of the most ardent opponents of the move. In an extreme situation, you could also petition me to use an Event to implement what you want. For both of those situations, you would probably need to have a logical plotline that fits well with the IC situation and which would benefit all the players as a whole. If you do, you might be surprised what some players would allow you to do to spice up the game; all you need to do is ask.

Starting a renegade empire? Pizzaguy no like. Bad medicine.

We havent even built a proper regular empire yet... too soon for talk of rebellion! :laugh2:

Guy's I think I've got some issues about the install.

I've followed TC's instructions and I've gotten up to extracting the LotR mod bit.

Shouldn't there be a desktop icon installed if do that correctly?

Yep, something is not right. I just downloaded the save and I can't see it. The only Icon on my desktop is the SS one.

IGNORE ME!!

I'm an idiot. it's been made so simply it's even easier than KotR's. :dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by AussieGiant

Yep, something is not right. I just downloaded the save and I can't see it. The only Icon on my desktop is the SS one.

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I've never gotten the LotR icon to work. I just use the SS icon and it works fine. As long as you can recruit cheap RBG's in the savegame, you know it works.

uhh PK the icon is just an icon, not an .exe. The idea is you right click on the SS shortcut go to properties and change the icon picture to that of LotR, clicking on the .ico file will just let you view the icon picture...

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Originally Posted by Elite Ferret

uhh PC the icon is just an icon, not an .exe. The idea is you right click on the SS shortcut go to properties and change the icon picture to that of LotR, clicking on the .ico file will just let you view the icon picture...

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Ah, I see. I was wondering why it didn't work. I am very computer illiterate. ^_^

(and it's PK...)

To get the LotR icon working is quite simple :

Step 1 : select the SS icon and use the right-click to create a shortcut (either on desktop or whereever you deem it handy...)

Step 2 : Right-click on the shortcut thus created and select "Properties"

Step 3 : Select the "Change Icon" tab and browse to the folder where you extracted the LotR.zip which should include the LotR icon. Select it.

Step 4 : Now the LotR icon should let you start the game and it looks much cooler...:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Tristan de Castelreng

Step 4 : Now the LotR icon should let you start the game and it looks much cooler...:2thumbsup:

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But I like the Templar shield... :D

Thanks though. :2thumbsup:

Then let's say it gets you in the mood... (will the blood and gold icon...:laugh4:)

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Originally Posted by Tristan de Castelreng

Then let's say it gets you in the mood... (will the blood and gold icon...:laugh4:)

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What do blood and gold get you in the mood for? :inquisitive:

:clown:

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

I've never gotten the LotR icon to work.

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I couldn't figure out a way to make a LotR version of the actual shortcut. The only method I could think of was including a shortcut file in the LotR Mod zip, but that has to link to the .exe file. Since many people install in different locations and directories, there was no way for me to do this in a way that would work for everyone. I figured that the easiest method was just to include the icon itself, and let people change it manually.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I couldn't figure out a way to make a LotR version of the actual shortcut. The only method I could think of was including a shortcut file in the LotR Mod zip, but that has to link to the .exe file. Since many people install in different locations and directories, there was no way for me to do this in a way that would work for everyone. I figured that the easiest method was just to include the icon itself, and let people change it manually.

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In hindsight, that makes total sense. It just wasn't something I thought of. The other icon worked, and the mod worked, so I was happy. :D

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

What do blood and gold get you in the mood for? :inquisitive:

:clown:

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I don't know... Some rampaging, perhaps... :charge:

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The Order besieges Antioch. However, Senator Makedonios Ksanthopoulos has been afflicted with pnuemonia. (OOC: Welcome to Stainless Steel)

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Alright, I'm new to this mod. Is this something that will just go away if the avatar sits in a city for awhile?

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

Alright, I'm new to this mod. Is this something that will just go away if the avatar sits in a city for awhile?

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Yes, thought it can sometimes take a while. The longer your army is out in the field, the more likely you will become ill, which decreases your HPs and makes you more likely to die in battle. In addition, long periods outside of friendly borders will start to decrease your army's morale. Very long durations will incur massive morale penalties on the order of -10. Deep raids like the Teutonic Crusade will no longer be possible, or at least they will be vastly harder. If you are campaigning far away from friendly territory, you'll probably have to seize a city and rest up in it for a while before continuing on. Sort of a base of operations situation. If you simply blitz through, your army morale will tank, your avatar health will deteriorate, and you will get slaughtered.

yeah it will eventually...I hate the disease system, generals get them far too often.

edit:look up there ^^

Alright, I'll just weave it into stories.

It seems historically accurate. People got sick all the time. Especially while sieging. Sleeping outside in a tent for 9 years can't be good for you.

I like it because it won't kill the avatar, it just reduces his HPs and sometimes a few other traits. In LotR, people who use their avatar as just another cavalry unit will find themselves respawning regularly. Unless you have a lot of +HP traits, use of the avatar's bodyguard is very risky and probably should be restricted to emergencies. This is another reason I didn't care about having limits on the number of avatars in a stack. The more avatars in a stack, the more likely some are to be used as normal cavalry, which poses a significant risk of avatar death. You'd better be careful who you entrust your avatar to, lest you wind up dead after a minor skirmish that someone else fought.

Speaking of avatar mortality, does SS make any changes to the '61 years' rule? I've come across mods that can make avatars live to eighty or die at thirty, but I can't remember if it was a part of BBB or not.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I like it because it won't kill the avatar, it just reduces his HPs and sometimes a few other traits. In LotR, people who use their avatar as just another cavalry unit will find themselves respawning regularly. Unless you have a lot of +HP traits, use of the avatar's bodyguard is very risky and probably should be restricted to emergencies. This is another reason I didn't care about having limits on the number of avatars in a stack. The more avatars in a stack, the more likely some are to be used as normal cavalry, which poses a significant risk of avatar death. You'd better be careful who you entrust your avatar to, lest you wind up dead after a minor skirmish that someone else fought.

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*Suddenly remembers he is leading a stack with no less than 7 avatars* :sweatdrop:

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

*Suddenly remembers he is leading a stack with no less than 7 avatars* :sweatdrop:

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And the only avatars to suffer HP penalties are the Order' first and second in commnd. :shame:

I also find it ironic that because of the pnuemonia Makedonios now has the lowest piety out of all the members of the Order.

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Originally Posted by Cecil XIX

And the only avatars to suffer HP penalties are the Order' first and second in commnd. :shame:

I also find it ironic that because of the pnuemonia Makedonios now has the lowest piety out of all the members of the Order.

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Armatos is sick too?

What are the stats of pnuemonia in the game? I'm at work and don't have access to the save.

-1 Command, -1 Authority, -20% movement points, -2 hitpoints, -1 piety.

Armatos just has a general 'unhealthy' trait that gives -1 hitpoints which I ascribed to figure from the voyage to Antioch.

...and this is exactly why I intensely dislike the SS supply/trait system, you're always better off using captain led armies. Players do not need the advantages of a general to defeat the AI, and in fact probably the only thing which will lead to the AI defeating you are some of the huge negatives sometimes associated with a general in SS. I guess it makes for some RP chances in LotR though, since we really can't play without our generals. :laugh4:

Want to reconsider that assault now PK? :yes:

:egypt:

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Originally Posted by Cecil XIX

-1 Command, -1 Authority, -20% movement points, -2 hitpoints, -1 piety.

Armatos just has a general 'unhealthy' trait that gives -1 hitpoints which I ascribed to figure from the voyage to Antioch.

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Thanks. :bow:

*edit*

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Originally Posted by Ramses

Want to reconsider that assault now PK?

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Nah, this doesn't change anything yet. I'll just have Makedonios rest afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

I'll just have Makedonios rest afterwards.

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Like in Rest In Pieces...:laugh4:

Sorry for the double post but I meant to say that pics have been posted for the Durazzo raid... Text should follow shortly...

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Originally Posted by Tristan de Castelreng

Like in Rest In Pieces...:laugh4:

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from what? governing a city? :clown:

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

from what? governing a city? :clown:

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No from conquering it...

Makedonios : Ass... *cough*cough*...ault !!!

Order Soldier: Did he say what I think I heard ?

Other Soldier : Yes, I think you heard him right... Now I understand why they say he's losing piety...

Order Soldier (to Makedonios) : You talkin' to me ? You F... talkin' to me ? Euh Sir ?

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Originally Posted by Tristan de Castelreng

No from conquering it...

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Nah, they are just going to sit there and make some tea. Let the garrison come to us.

Congratulations Tristan on the first battle report.

Commiserations on the one lost soldier, by the looks of things he will not be easy to replace as the farmers of Durazzo seem to have little fighting skills to think of.

His place has already been taken by a veteran warrior that has joined my retinue...:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Cecil XIX

Speaking of avatar mortality, does SS make any changes to the '61 years' rule? I've come across mods that can make avatars live to eighty or die at thirty, but I can't remember if it was a part of BBB or not.

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I have had the avatars go up to 66-67 years in the SS games I have been playing.

wow, you go away from the comp a few days and two turns have advanced... consider Lisas to be studying warfare, as he'll only be 19 now (I think)
also, if someone could move him to Nicea for me, that'd be great (nowhere else)

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Originally Posted by 00jebus

also, if someone could move him to Nicea for me, that'd be great (nowhere else)

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You can ask OverKnight to move you. :yes:

Though it seems you can give permission to anyone to move you, it might be best if it is coordinated through him so there is no confusion. Especially since you don't seem to be part of a House yet.

This is just my take on it.

I thought he was in Komnendoukai?

Smyrna shall be mine soon...MWAHAHAHAHA!

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Originally Posted by Elite Ferret

I thought he was in Komnendoukai?

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What makes you think that? Is the fact that his sig says "Lisas Attaliedas, Strator, House of Komnenodoukai" and includes the Komnenodoukai shield?

:laugh4:

yeah that and I remember him swearing fealty in there not so long ago.

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Originally Posted by FLYdude

What makes you think that? Is the fact that his sig says "Lisas Attaliedas, Strator, House of Komnenodoukai" and includes the Komnenodoukai shield?

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But he did not use the word "oath" in his oath so he is not listed as part of that House in the Senate Library. According to TC's new rules on oath swearing, the oath is not yet legal, hence he is still techincally "houseless". Which is why I directed him to OverKnight. :book:

Mmmm.... legal technicality burger.


drools

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Mmmm.... legal technicality burger.

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Well some people were using really vague language with their oaths so TC tightened the rules up a bit. :clown:

Recipe for legal technicality burger:

One large, fluffy burger bun made from the finest wheat or flour in the lands
One slice of melted swiss cheese
One vaguely worded document which is open to legal interpretation, the more ambiguous the better
One leaf of crisp, fresh lettuce
One judicial activist tomato
3 high priced lawyers
3/4 pound of the fresh, ground legal precedent

12 ounces of premium potato chips

Wash it down with an ice cold glass of arbitration cola.

Do not forget the political motive to go through with pursuing the legal technicality.

Motivation? I was hungry, that's all.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hungry for power.

Ahem.

He slaughters every last person opposing him in Durazzo (271) and gets "Methodios the Chivalrous" for it :inquisitive:

:clown:

I've gotten some pretty Saintly faction leaders by destroying hordes of Muslims while on crusade.

Chivarly is subjective, you see? If you dedicate your life to serving God, and slaughter all those who oppose your version of God, you're a hero!

In this instance, Methodios was chivalrous because he fought so honourably on the battlefield. While he faced peasants and militia spearmen who grossly outnumbered him, he was forced to make do with only the finest armoured horsemen, lances, and mailed knights that the last of the Romans have to offer. Clearly it was a mismatch not in his favor. Just look at the auto-resolve odds and you'll know, man...


Efstratios chokes back his seething jealousy

This is a response to Ichigo's post in the Tagamata thread:

Here is the relevant rule regarding battles:

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1.3 – Battles: A player whose avatar leads an army that is involved in a battle will be expected to fight that battle. This will involve downloading the savegame of the battle, playing it and then uploading the resulting savegame. Uploading the post-battle save must be done within 48 hours of the pre-battle savegame being uploaded. If the deadline expires, the battle is autoresolved. If a player cannot fight a battle that is assigned to them, the battle may also be fought by any player whose avatar will also be present in the battle. Under no circumstances will a battle be fought by a player whose avatar is not present in the battle. If there is no player available to fight a battle, it must be autoresolved. If there are no allocated avatars involved in the battle at all, it must be autoresolved.

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From the way I read it, this means you can download the save, and play it. You'd basically be fighting with NN's avatar. I don't know about moving NN's avatar out of the stack. I'm pretty sure that is not allowed unless he gave you permission. If he gave you permission, then you can do it. If he didn't, you could ask OK to do it. Since NN did not lock his avatar, you can wait and have OK move NN out of the stack.

If your unsure of the rules, you can always wait and see what OK or TC say about it.

It just seems kinda strange fighting a battle with someone else's avatar. I just don't know what NN really wants me to do with the HQ comment. To either take him out of the stack or just leave him in there. Plus, I'd be fighting the battle as his avatar and not mine. Just seems strange to me.

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Originally Posted by Ichigo

It just seems kinda strange fighting a battle with someone else's avatar. I just don't know what NN really wants me to do with the HQ comment. To either take him out of the stack or just leave him in there. Plus, I'd be fighting the battle as his avatar and not mine. Just seems strange to me.

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My guess is that the HQ comment was just IC flavor to explain it.

If it was me, I'd play it. But if your unsure, better to wait and ask TC.

I'll wait until next turn to assault, since the battering ram isn't finished. It said 80% which is weird to me, but I haven't got a chance to play the game yet.

I'm just experiencing the painful consequences of modding without backups. :wall::wall:

On a different note, the latest save is a rar, not a zip file, so it can't be played.

Can't be played? If you want I can download it and upload it again as a zip.

That would be much appreciated thanks. I had to reinstall MTWII, 1.2, 1.3, SS4.0, and SS4.1, thanks to my failure to back stuff up.

Ouch! That must have been rather long an unpleasant. :wall:

I just posted the save as a .zip in the "Megas Logothetes' and Senators' Reports" thread.

Go smash some rebels oh mighty Ceasar! :smash:

Yes, it took me 2 hours to fix up everything.

Thanks. Mighty Caesar has just won his first battle.

Why can't a rar be played? Also, congrats on your victory. :2thumbsup:

I guess Ignoramus doesn't have an extractor that can handle .rar, everyone should stick with one format anyways, its much simple that way.

Not only will Efstratios never win any battles, he's going to go rebel next turn, thus creating the most hilariously anticlimatic ending to a promising character since every actor in Star Wars besides Harrison Ford.

Wasnt quite sure if I could start a thread for this here or in the throneroom... :clown:

Happy Birthday Tristan! :birthday2:

Happy birthday!

And could the great Ceasar please clear his PM inbox? Thanks. :clown:

Yes, happy birthday, Tristan!!!

I wasn't going to do this, but the boys here talked me into it. So without further ado, here's your present, Tristan old buddy.

Efstratios begins to remove his clown outfit, while mouthing half-heartedly something which sounds like bad striptease music

Da na na na.... hum.... dana na na.... Da na na na... hum... dana na na...

He slips off his suspenders and unbuttons his big enormous buttons.

Da na, da na, da naaaaaa

His big floppy shoes are kicked into the corner, and he begins to remove his underwear while his pants are still on.... and he keeps pulling and pulling and it's just more underwear tied together, in a big long continuous stream of multicolored cotton.

Now tell me watcha want, whatcha really really want...

His pants drop to the floor, revealing big pink shorts with purple polka dots

If you wanna be my lover... you gotta get with my friends...

He grinds against a balloon animal while juggling

I'm going to continue dancing and stripping until someone pays for my college education to get me to stop.

He honks his big red nose and threatens to continue.


:clown:

Inbox has space now.

(Sorry, the thing I was most remember for in KotR was having a full inbox)

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I'm going to continue dancing and stripping until someone pays for my college education to get me to stop.

:clown:

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Takes his check-book out of his pocket, grabs a pen and begins writing... Then stops and pulls out his credit card... Then considers opening his Paypal account...

"How much would that be ?"


And thanks to all, ~:cheers:

I wish we could all share a pint together...

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Takes his check-book out of his pocket, grabs a pen and begins writing... Then stops and pulls out his credit card... Then considers opening his Paypal account...

"How much would that be ?"

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Thank the Good Lord. That took 56 excruciating minutes.... I was getting worried you guys were calling my bluff and I'd have to come up with a much-less-funny and 10 times more frightening second post.

:sweatdrop:


That'll be approximately $9,000 per year for the next 5 years for my remaining tuition please. :yes:

:jawdrop:

Is it truly necessary ? You look pretty educated enough to me already :book:

Not educated enough to be a teacher in these United States. You have to have a 6-year degree for what I'm going for.

And I seem educated because I'm a straight A student who has no life outside of this game.

What do you hope to teach ?

Mayhem 101 ? Blitz 101 ?

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Not educated enough to be a teacher in these United States. You have to have a 6-year degree for what I'm going for.

And I seem educated because I'm a straight A student who has no life outside of this game.

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That sounds rather familiar...

Although after meeting my wife I screwed it up both by getting out of the House more and making a b or two. :clown:

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Originally Posted by Method Man

What do you hope to teach ? Mayhem 101 ? Blitz 101 ?

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I already teach that, plus sarcasm, randomness, and insanity, as a public service.

High school Social Studies/History or College Ethics, I'm torn between them. One is my passion, and the other is another one of my passions but it pays a whole hell of a lot more, but at the same time caters only to the already-successful student, and so therefore would it be ethical of me to waste my talents helping those who can help themselves, or helping those who require an excellent teacher?

You must answer in short essay form and you have 90 minutes to respond.





By the way, $9,000 per year is a lowball estimate. Some mainstream colleges are $30,000 a year.


sigh....

Ah... The Luxury of living in the U.S of A....