8 minutes by my count, And my grammar could never meet that standard but whatever you think....Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
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8 minutes by my count, And my grammar could never meet that standard but whatever you think....Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
I've calmed down on more recent games, as to avoid getting a ban if you get my drift :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by White_eyes:D
1) Actually, yes, because I feel like Ares is the kind of person I would be able to sway with my arguments if I felt the need to. I don't feel particularly threatened by him as a player and I think I would stand a far better chance at spotting an irregularity in his behavior than I would in someone like you, GH, Andres, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
2) Yes, anyone. The way I see it, Ares has probably been framed, which means he's innocent. Thus, anyone is a better choice than Ares.
Let me ask you a question: Are you so afraid of Ares that you think we won't be able to spot his scuminess unless we lynch him right here and right now?
You said your battle rating was zero yet in the PM it's three. What gives?
-edit- Evidence:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATPG's chatlog
Quote:
Originally Posted by PM
I agree (see hes right i sway with the minority :sweatdrop: )Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
@GH:
I already said, i was being sarcastic, i would have put '0' in the role pm if i forged it and was being serious, no?
You still think your framed???:smash::smash:Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Edit:He freaks if framed for real.......you just feel the injustice coming from his words.....:no: but the Ares now.....far to calm..:inquisitive:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Fine. I'll give him benefit of the doubt if you want. One round enough for an investigation?
If you need to axe someone, you know where to find a volunteer. But I am very unsure about his innocence and I am sure about mine.
Ares: :thumbsdown: on your defense. It shouldn't take 8 minutes to post a role pm without altering it.
vote: Ares
I'm skeptical of the writeup, but lacking any better lead, I think we go with it.
Any thoughts about the first kill btw? Seemed to be a smoker or somesuch.
yup, the evidence wasnt as strong as it is on this game, this is a statement, dark vaccum was questionable, and what makes you think my behavior is so predictable?Quote:
Originally Posted by White_eyes:D
unvote: Ares
vote: askthepizzaguy
TinCow, if you want a benefit of the doubt on him for a round, you basically have to vote for me instead. The bandwagon will be so large that you don't really need my vote anyway.
Edit: alternatively, we could lynch him and investigate him tonight. Seems to be safer than letting him kill again.
You guys need to read that role PM. Are you honestly telling me that Ares, of all people, forged that in 15 minutes? The quote with a joke in it and the entire writing style are entirely consistent with the role PM Reenk sent to me. It takes me 30 minutes to do a decent role forgery. I don't mean to be insulting to Ares, but his writing style leaves a lot to be desired. I simply don't think he could have faked that in the short period of time he had. If it is fake, someone else wrote it for him and he had it before ATPG said anything to him.
I told you my role after you asked for it, It never came to mind before then, had you have asked at the start of the convo, i would haven given then insteadQuote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
I gave it within 30 seconds of you asking
Unvote: Ares
Vote: FactionHeir
Don't like it.
Ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
But if he were a mafia, and he had a large role Pm from the host, he could have forged it ahead of time, obviously. Or made very minor edits, that's not hard either. Vote who you like. I think it should be Ares, but massive bandwagons aren't necessary. If town decides to change their mind, we need other people with votes on them. I would say, however, that the Good Men have the ability to seriously mess with the tally, so a close vote is still dangerous. I think several Good Men should abstain.
:mellow: because of your delays with your role PM, lies about your duel score and your almost feeling guilty and not protesting much, I.E. calmness....:smash:Quote:
Originally Posted by 777Ares777
since when has a mafia been calm when there being mass voted?Quote:
Originally Posted by White_eyes:D
There is zero evidence that he was framed. That is a baseless assumption and on the wrong side of occam's razor.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
I think he's guilty because the writeup says he was. When do we ever get this good of a day one lynch? At worst, following your line of reasoning will either give ares the victory if he survives, or force the watcher role to reveal. At worst, my line of reasoning gets rid of a huge WIFOM in the late game.Quote:
Let me ask you a question: Are you so afraid of Ares that you think we won't be able to spot his scuminess unless we lynch him right here and right now?
As a game host, there is a 0% chance that I would not have given the mafia fake townie role pm's.Quote:
You guys need to read that role PM. Are you honestly telling me that Ares, of all people, forged that in 15 minutes? The quote with a joke in it and the entire writing style are entirely consistent with the role PM Reenk sent to me. It takes me 30 minutes to do a decent role forgery. I don't mean to be insulting to Ares, but his writing style leaves a lot to be desired. I simply don't think he could have faked that in the short period of time he had. If it is fake, someone else wrote it for him and he had it before ATPG said anything to him.
He just needed to cut off the part about "the Usurpers", Reenk and I got the idea from YLC.....he made a cover role in which, all we had to do was edit out the top or bottom of the Mafia role.....:book: he fooled me with it on "Whispers in the night":shame:Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
:Zzzz:
...
Gentlemen, I have a terrible hangover, and I don't know about all this racket.
It is true that the gentleman known as Ares may have been framed, but it is also quite possible that he is guilty of the murder of this poor, simple farmer. Have any of you a better way of finding the truth than mere speculation?
chatlog 2
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
You are wrong about this. Occam's razor points to his innocence because:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
We don't, plain and simple. This is too good to be true. Therefore it is not. Mafia are not anonymously revealed in first day write-ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
We're going to have to be careful with the vote tally given the nature of the game:
Ares: 5 (shlin, sasaki,Ichigo, white_eyes, FactionHeir
FactionHeir: 2 (GH (2))
PizzaGuy: 1(PizzaGuy)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
"too good to be true" is a fallacy. Mafia have been investigated night one, was that "too good to be true"? Your suggestion that ares being framed would prove he is innocent is also faulty, we don't know enough about the game roles to say that.Quote:
Mafia are not anonymously revealed in first day write-ups.
Why? I can just as easily say "townies are not framed by the host in the first day write-up".Quote:
Mafia are not anonymously revealed in first day write-ups.
Essentially you are claiming that a role that can frame people is more likely than a role that can detect a killer. Actually you are claiming that a role that can detect a killer is IMPOSSIBLE which is clearly not true. We almost never find mafia by analysis on day one so Ares is clearly the best choice. Again, read the worst case scenarios.
Ok....everybody knows I have a duel score of two....so no harm in revealing now, right?Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
QFT.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Besides, if we just blindly lynch Ares then that's a round where the mafia can slip by without any repercussions. Like FactionHeir.
I'll be back in several hours. Recommend Ares for the lynch, or unless there's compelling evidence against someone else, myself to spare a pro-town role.
I am very much operating under the assumption many of you have pro-town roles. As a matter of fact, I think we have more than one pair of masons, from a private convo I had. But I could have misinterpreted the comment.
Further conversation with ares: (spoilered and not particularly useful information)
Ares has the unfortunate habit of making the chat log unreadable.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Reposted with permission from Ares.
I don't get it. An investigation would prove him innocent, yet he seems reluctant to even accept my help. That doesn't fly with me. I don't care who you lynch, but he needs to be investigated or lynched soon. I gotta run, I also volunteer for the investigation or lynch, to squelch any rumors I am guilty.
Still recommend him for the lynch, just offering alternatives.
Are you silly? mafia now have you as there next target, with the complications in this game i bet they'll eat roles like that for breakfastQuote:
Originally Posted by White_eyes:D
askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com says:
Are you?
Aries777777 says:
so why would i kill a fellow townie?
I used an emotion between these two that signified 'yes' before anyone picks it out and kills it....
One thing about your Role PM that bugs me.....why is there no greetings by Reenk Roink???:inquisitive:
It's like you cut something he was explaining to you off of it.....:inquisitive:
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Role PM
It just starts with a quote....no, "hello Ares":shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ares role PM
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
:bow:
edit: and yes, he's telling the truth bout the emoticon, but it shouldnt matter.
edit 2: below, Yoyoma: Good theory.
Here's a thought:
pever's character had a magic rock, which would expose the one who killed him. His "Onion" he kept talking about.
I think you nailed him there :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by White_eyes:D
My role pm contains a greeting. It looks like ares's pm had a greeting, then his mafia role pm, then a fake townie pm. He quoted the fake townie pm but not the greeting :yes:
pevergreen kept talking about the onion because he was in character. He's playing a doddering old man. Several of his quotes were taken directly from Grandpa Simpson. That's why I replied with my comment about wolves, it was also a reference to Grandpa Simpson. This is the quote from The Simpsons:Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyoma1910
Quote:
We can’t bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell ‘em stories that don’t go anywhere - like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so, I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on ‘em. ‘Give me five bees for a quarter,’ you’d say.
Now where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...
Wow.....Respect for Yoyoma up by +1....:2thumbsup: that sounds about right....its the smoking gun right there.....but pevergreen can confirm that, right? it is not a rule breaking thing??:book:Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyoma1910
it does but i didnt class it as part of the pmQuote:
Originally Posted by White_eyes:D
Hello 777Ares777, thanks for playing :bow:
was my initial greeting from him
Confirmation bias, Sasaki. I still have my doubts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
This is accurate. Post-mortem reveals are allowed in this game. It should be a simple matter for pevergreen to tell us whether he had a power that would reveal his killer.Quote:
Originally Posted by White_eyes:D
good theory :no:Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyoma1910
Well, if pever reveals this to be the truth, then we know for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by 777Ares777
That is a pretty BIG over site.....ATPG can you confirm if Reenk greeted you in your PM or not??:book:Quote:
Originally Posted by 777Ares777
A townie that reveals his killer would be extremely unlikely if you ask me. To powerful a role.
I did fall victim to confirmation bias with my last post...the leaving off the greeting is unlikely as a townie but not proof of guilt. However, it is one more stick on the fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
I also wouldn't mind seeing FactionHeirs defense of that post of his.
well mine had a :bow: symbol, you didn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by White_eyes:D
:inquisitive:Reenk ALWAYS :bow: when he greets.....you could have just looked at the top half you cut off.....:inquisitive: mine was just copy and paste with none of the emoticon's to make it look LIKE it was forged:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by 777Ares777
:dizzy2:
If anyone want to know, RR wrote "Hello shlin28, thanks for playing :bow:"
Just thought you guys should know...
Er...
*backs away from the confrontation*
(I'm just really confused by these 3 pages that came out of nowhere, doing rereading now)
Same as me.....only Ares was missing his at the start.....WHEN it was a full role PM from Reenk:inquisitive:Quote:
Originally Posted by shlin28
you'll probably want to keep your vote where you first voted :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by shlin28
Got something. My role PM is formatted like this: So the story goes of you, the loyal soldier of the priest king Reenk Roink.
But Ares' PM is in the standard Org font... suspcious?
everyone had the same greeting, i would think that includes mafia too, stop making a big deal over it. :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by White_eyes:D
@ shlin
I copied and pasted, like wise to what white eyes did, i didnt bother altering fonts
Not really, he could have just not gone into the formatting to get the full PM (by pressing quote or forward) and could have just quoted the PM itself and put in the second quote tag manually.
not really.....when I copy and pasted mine, it also removed the font:juggle2:Quote:
Originally Posted by shlin28
ok....a few things have Ares looking pretty guilty....guess I should list them
1) in the chat logs he lied to ATPG and didn't seem very much worried that he was being framed...
2) when he reveal his*check post 317* it didn't have the greeting in it....almost like he cut the first half off of it...AKA, a fake townie PM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ares
3) in the chat logs he lied about his duel score to ATPG.
4) He is not acting like he has been framed....he is acting like it could have been a simple mix-up, at a car dealership.(not the way he behaved in Dark Vacuum)
When you do a regular copy and paste it will go to standard org font.Quote:
Originally Posted by shlin28
The deal is that you said "full pm" and then didn't quote the full pm. It fits the pattern of you quoting from a fakeclaim. In a game where everyone gets a role pm, any mafioso who is under suspicion will be asked for their role pm. If the host doesn't provide one then they are up _____ creek, especially since many people don't have english as a first language. That's why I say the mafia have fakeclaims.Quote:
everyone had the same greeting, i would think that includes mafia too, stop making a big deal over it.
It depends whether you have that "a/A" thing selected, as I recall from Cosa nuova (?) some people have it selected by default or something.Quote:
Eh? No matter what I do with my PM (quote it, copy and paste it, preview it, quote it again) it still retains the formatting
Eh? No matter what I do with my PM (quote it, copy and paste it, preview it, quote it again) it still retains the formatting. :book:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Agreed.
I also missed my quote off initially, i didnt copy the whole top of my pm, or are you saying my quote is forged as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Ignore my point about formatting, it could just be the host sending out PMs in batches so different batches have different formattings.
Having hosted two games where I have handed the Mafia cover roles, I suspect RR did the same in this one.
Why? because basically nothing is illegal in this game short of screen shots.
BUT, I suspect a lot of the information we receive by PM or reveals will be bogus or misleading, even though its messengers might not know it is.
Questions:
- Did the usurpers plant a magic stone on pevergreen to frame Ares?
- Did the usurper Ares make a grave mistake by killing pevergreen?
- Is this a plot by the good men to get rid of us (the men)?
- Are all good men usurpers?
There is a gamble in either believing the night result or to consider it a fabrication.
The coin says vote: Ares
One of the good men were also murdered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd
If you want questions answered just list them and I'll reply :balloon2:
This would be a logical explanation, but if I were mafia and had that ability, I wouldn't waste it on round one...even if I could do it every round I would probably just use it in the endgame.Quote:
Did the usurpers plant a magic stone on pevergreen to frame Ares?
I don't think so. I was a good man and the kill writeup stated my role, which was scribe. (No abilities and battle rating of 1)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd
That would be extremely unbalanced. Considering voting power, the usurpers could theoretically win on Day 1. Frankly, I'm surprised that this didn't occur to you. :inquisitive:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd
Well there you have it. We're really just a bunch of sissies. Except the soldiers, I bet those guys are big as oxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlax
Me big, me smash puny farmers.
:clown:
I think the discussion about whether Ares' role PM was fake or not is pointless. All this talk about the presence or lack of an introduction line is a waste of time. If that role PM is fake, it was an extremely good forgery. It mimics Reenk's writing style perfectly, and is laced with just the proper amount of humor throughout. No one would make that good of a forgery and then not put in the standard greeting line that we ALL got. It is far more likely that Ares is telling the truth and didn't post it at first because he didn't think it was actually part of the role. This is consistent with him not posting the joke earlier as well. As for the formating, I've seen that happen many times with real role PMs. It happens when people simply highlight and copy what they see in their PM box instead of hitting reply and using the formated text inside the reply box. The better point of discussion is whether the current situation seems like a frame attempt or whether it seems like a legitimate reveal of a mafioso.
Also...
Vote: FactionHeir
I agree with Sasaki and GH that his reply raised an eyebrow. This line in particular seems like a typical mafioso attempt to participate in discussion and analysis without actually saying anything:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
The last two questions were tongue in cheek and part of my role playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
I shall Vote: TinCow, as his behavior seems off
And if thee are innocent, my hat I shall doff.
I wish I had your role, it sounds cool :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by seireikhaan
True.....he is defending Ares, quite a bit....:inquisitive: FoS:TinCowQuote:
Originally Posted by seireikhaan
As am I. But the thing is that our defenses are logical. :smash:
This isn't like you (as townie)--you generally read more carefully. You are striking at straw men and ignoring what has been said. The claim isn't that the pm is a forgery.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
shlin and W_E took up several posts discussing the formating of Ares' role PM and the intro line. They were the target of my response.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Hence my comment about strawmen. It's not townie to reply to the less important arguments and ignore the major ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Reenk almost certainly provided the mafia with fakeclaims. I went over the reasons why. This means that he wrote the townie pm that ares posted, i.e. it is not a forgery. When W_E's pointed out the lack of greeting I theorized that ares's pm had the greeting, then the mafia pm, and then the townie pm. This is only convincing in a confirmation bias way as GH pointed out, but it is still something worth noting.
So why would you insist that aren's pm couldn't be a forgery and spend time attacking the formatting theory which had already been debunked by four other people? You are being selective in which arguments you reply to.
The point of the discussing the role pm is that at best, it does nothing to show his innocence. That leads you back to your claim that there can't possibly be a watcher role in this game. There isn't any basis for that claim.
Here's how it is:
Scenario A-1: There is a watcher role--it caught ares--we lynch ares--we lynch mafia
Scenario A-2: Ares is being framed--Ares is innocent--we lynch ares--we lynch a townie
Scenario A-3: Ares is being framed--Ares is still guilty--we lynch ares--we lynch a SK/what have you
Scenario B-1: There is a watcher role--it caught ares--we let ares live--ares is mafia--we lose
Scenario B-2: There is a watcher role--it caught ares--we let ares live--the watcher role is forced to reveal and dies the next night.
Scenario B-3: Ares is being framed--Ares is innocent----we let ares live--we lynch some other townie (95%)
Scenario B-4: Ares is being framed--Ares is still guilty--we let ares live--we lynch a townie instead of a SK/what have you (95%)
By not lynching Ares we would have everything to lose and very little to gain. Unless you have some compelling case you want to make against someone? Don't let your desire to not be fooled by a frame job dissuade you from making the right choice. It's the correct decision with the information at hand.
On the Ares lynch:
pros:
WIFOM goes away
avoid lynching a valuable pro town role. Ares is just a builder and thus expandable.
Potential mafia lynch
cons:
Framing possibilities
Waste of a lynch/stifles conversation.
The PM analysis is useless like so many others have said. However, Areses responses seem out of character and inconsistent. For that alone he would make a good lynch. The writeup incrimination is just an added bonus.
Vote: Ares
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd
Yes.
Maybe.
I have no idea.
I've skipped about 20 posts. I shall continue to follow this game however.
Who was I? I was a secret role. I had no abilities, save things that may pop up.
I may reveal my role, just no direct quotes, according to the PM from reenk.
I am the village idiot! I ask lots of questions and annoy people a lot. They try to kill me before the god Pisuf takes me away and puts me somewhere else, thus continuing the cycle. This time, Pisuf got his powers taken away by the other gods, so being his chosen one doesnt help anymore (He considered me the greatest human alive)
My battle rating was 1, my victory was outlasting the usurpers.
I was given a cover role, that of a Farmer.
If there are other farmers, when/if they reveal I can verify the PM.
In the PM which Reenk told me I was dead, he said that at least my special ability came into play.
I believe the reason Tincow and Sasaki are clashing is because you both have complete different assumptions of the write up, Sasaki takes it the straight forward, perhaps logical way, Tincow believes it is set up and at this stage has every reason to believe so, however I think your both acting normally IMHO.
If Pevergreen comes here and says the person who kills him is revealed then The result is still unclear as we don't know if we can someone editing the write up, with Pever's personality I'm doubt his role pm would be that straight forward either, I'm not taking anything for granted on this one, but I owuld mention this wouldn't I? It's my life on the line afterall.
Now back with roleplaying
Please don't kill me, I love you all too much! Let God take me instead, yes yes happy thoughts happy thoughts....
edit: hmmmm, ok posted too late...urrrrr
Ok im packing my bags before someone puts a knife through my heart
VOTE ARES
Whilst I am a simple humble man who wishes that we could all live in peace with each other this evidence againest Ares is too much for anyone to ignore fairwell my brother. May you find the peace in death that you failed to find in life.
Now that this is over let us pause for a minute silence in mermoriom of our dearly deperated scribe and idiot.
Are you serious? *I* have been ignoring major arguments? I was the first person who had the guts to stick his neck out for Ares when he was about to be bandwagoned into an insta-lynch. I've been providing a good deal of arguments for my position this entire day phase. Simply making one post which concentrates on a lesser issue doesn't change the fact that I've been arguing heavily this entire time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
WHOA. WHOA. WHOA.Quote:
The point of the discussing the role pm is that at best, it does nothing to show his innocence. That leads you back to your claim that there can't possibly be a watcher role in this game.
I claimed "there can't possibly be a watcher role in this game"? You accuse me about going after a straw man, and then you just fabricate a statement? What I said was that a watcher role would presumably only get the information in a night result PM and would have to disclose it just like any other detective. I never said that there wasn't a watcher in this game, just that the stone which showed Ares did not seem like it was the result of a watcher.
Now who isn't reading carefully? :inquisitive:
I am waiting to here what pevergreen has to say before I decide on Ares. Ares already has more than enough votes to get him lynched, so my vote doesn't make a difference. I'm keeping it on FH for the time being in the hopes that it will encourage him to speak more.Quote:
By not lynching Ares we would have everything to lose and very little to gain. Unless you have some compelling case you want to make against someone? Don't let your desire to not be fooled by a frame job dissuade you from making the right choice. It's the correct decision with the information at hand.
This may be the record of day 1 discussion:laugh4:
I'll pick the easy way by following the bandwagon. The evidence points straight at Ares that it even creates a WIFOM situation.
Vote: Ares
Rather then thinking too much about it and letting him go, I say we lynch him away as we have nothing ales to go on with. Aside from FHs post.
btw I believe "The Watcher" refers to Reenk from his role in Fillet Royale.
pevergreen has already spoken on the issue he was the village idiot and in his death P.M Reenk said thisQuote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
n the PM which Reenk told me I was dead, he said that at least my special ability came into play