Man, you are such a buzz kill. :-p
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Man, you are such a buzz kill. :-p
LOL, all this hassle over a simple animation that makes a cool change now and again. I really don't see what the hassle is.
P.S. I really love that animation, the amount of thought thats gone in to it is brilliant. Great work.
Knight of Ne =)
Yes it sure is an nice and impressive animation, I'm just thinking its more fancy then practical in Phalanx warfare.
Well I just argue because I care about the mod =P.Quote:
Man, you are such a buzz kill. :-p
That reminds me we should have EB multiplayer match sometime again :P.
The exception of Marathon was that the charge was carried out over such a long distance, not that it was carried out at all. In his discussion on the myths of hoplite warfare, Hans van Wees does not even debate whether hoplites charged: all his attention goes to establishing how they charged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalanx300
The strawman being that no-one claimed hoplites left the formation. Rather, the formation was looser than you imply and some individual soldiers would have had the space to execute this manoeuvre during the charge.Quote:
You just did it again, the shieldwall isn't perfect so some soldiers supposedly charge and put their allies at risk?
And strawman?
Off course, if the team goes with a dense hoplite phalanx (something that is debatable: the above-mentioned Van Wees argues that hoplite formation was looser than that in EB), then yes, the inclusion of this animation is questionable.
On the last motion when the hoplite goes back to overhand,
Wouldn't it be quite hard to do that because the spear would get caught in the enemy formation? like knock into some enemy shield and stuff.
Well yeah and then the enemy coming forward at the same time and with your allies in your back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parallel Pain
Then I gues it all comes down to how dense the Phalanx would be.Quote:
The strawman being that no-one claimed hoplites left the formation. Rather, the formation was looser than you imply and some individual soldiers would have had the space to execute this manoeuvre during the charge.
Off course, if the team goes with a dense hoplite phalanx (something that is debatable: the above-mentioned Van Wees argues that hoplite formation was looser than that in EB), then yes, the inclusion of this animation is questionable.
And even then such animations for reasons above would be near-impossible to do. Especially with both lines charging at full speed.
And I'll see if I can find something on that Van Wees guy.
I am however a little curious how feasible it is physically though and it would be unpleasant for the guy behind you. Not really an issue for loose formation though.
maybe some people can field test this
I think the formation is loose enough during the charge (when the formation is bound to break up a bit) to carry out the move. But logically assuming that the two sides make contact during the "thrust" animation, then the enemy and his shield wall obviously isn't too far in front.
Since, as already pointed out, the recovery must be parallel and can not angle or you'll hit the leg of the guy on the right, the spear is extending it's maximum combat length (4 to 6 feet?) out from the hand. I would think then a feet or two would get caught in the enemy formation.
Though maybe the hand can be pulled back far enough to allow the withdraw. Need an actual spear to test that.
Considering that people were shorter back then, a hoplite using a longer spear trying to carry out that move would also have to be careful that his spear doesn't get stuck in the ground when withdrawing, loosing time when the formation would be closing up.
Sorry for not giving a reference: I assumed you would be familiar with him. He's in the EB bibliography. I don't agree with everything he writes, but his criticism of the preconceived ideas about hoplite warfare is persuasive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalanx300
On a slight tangent, I'm somewhat curious as to how exactly the hoplites held their spear. When holding a spear overhand, which way would they grip it, with their thumbs pointing forward, or back? It seems like one could do it either way, but it makes a big difference in the range of motion they would have.
A grip with the thumb facing forwards sounds like an underhand grip. It's very awkward to hold it overhand with the thumb facing forwards. Just try it, form the grip at your desk, and it already seems quite unnatural.
I think I get where you're coming from. Alright, I'll try to demonstrate my point using EB unitcards
http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...nikon_INFO.jpg
This is a standard hoplite as portrayed in EB. It uses the spear an overhand, with the thumb facing backwards.
http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...obles_INFO.jpg
This hoplite, while it doesn't look like this in game, has, I think, a grip like you describe. Kind of a raised underhand grip. I guess it does look a little awkward.
But what if, rather than simply reversing the underhand grip, like in the first picture, or raising the underhand grip like the second, you inverted it? Having your thumb go around the bottom of the spear, forward, but away from you? If you did that, it feels like you could wield a spear overhand fairly effectively.
Well I figure its in the same way you hold a javelin(the tight grip) or stick overhand.
Hmm, I've never really noticed that. Since that is just the picture on the unit card (Baktrian Agema hold it overhand), maybe it's just a model that looks cool?
you can hold it overhand just go and pick up a long spear like stick/pole .. it feels like you can get more accuracy and a longer range , but less power .. though this is without any practice.
the only major thing i noticed in regards to the "feel" , was that the overhand grip adds more load on forearm , and the rear + lateral deltoid muscles.
Overhand and underhand were tested and overhand was more powerfull and quicker. Not sure where it was tested but the results sounds logical if you look at the angle.Quote:
Originally Posted by mountaingoat
Yeah I remember one of the team (foot maybe) found some info involving the forces produced by overhand and underhand spear thrusts which came to that conclusion.
edit it was abou, Stats on overhand spear vs underhand spear.. Shows that the overhand attack was faster and more powerful than the underhand.
The overhand motion is more powerful and quick in close quarters in formation.
twitter news: Twitter Exclusive! Introduction to new game-play features in EBII in preparation for the next preview. http://tiny.cc/ebiipa - Foot
i smell a new preview :laugh4:
YAY! so exciting, glad you posted this up.
oh yeah!
Amazing! Can't wait to see more.
i was talking holding the spear with an overhand grip (but the thumb facing forward)Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
Wait so "bread and circus" doesn't work?:book:Quote:
Temples, game fields, and other such buildings that represent individual structures will no longer add public order bonuses
You post a twitter exclusive in the fora :inquisitive:Quote:
Originally Posted by SFS2006
You missed the point of an excusive.
Seems so... Interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parallel Pain
When you are dealing with the public order of entire provinces, building a bakery and fairground in your capital is not going to really make a difference throughout the entire province. Buildings that represent province-wide infrastructure will be able to effect Public Order, buildings that represent civic structures will have different effects. Bread and Circus will still work, but the results will not be as you saw in EBI.
Foot
makes more sence indeed since celts germans and other barbarians lived in small villages and scatered farms and where mostly rural populations
but for instance conquering a greek city would normally mean securing the region so we get more acuracy on the mostly rural areas and less historical acuracy in the urban society areas ???
Directly after conquest centralised control is quite quickly lost (just think of the months following Afghanistan and Iraq, whose administration structures were far more centralised than those of Ancient Greece). You will therefore need to build that up over the next year or so (depending on your build order), but it is certainly possible (as mentioned in the document) for an entire province to come under the direct governance of the capital city of a province.Quote:
Originally Posted by moonburn
This system covers all scenarios (probably), and there is no loss in historical accuracy, as this is far more accurate than any system than has appeared before. It certainly isn't perfect for everyone, everytime, but it a huge improvement.
Foot
This sounds awesome! You guys are truly amazing. :2thumbsup:
:2thumbsup::2thumbsup::2thumbsup: :smash: :smash: :smash: :yes::yes::yes::yes::beam::beam::beam::beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
Oh yeah does that mean roads increase public order? Since you know roads better communication and better communication = better information flow = better control
I like this update. https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/image...-2thumbsup.gif
Very juicy option this one. I can imagine faction-typical approaches, with Carthage sprining to mind (trade and tribute on their province's centres, military alliance with the periphery giving access to juicy local elite troops) as opposed to the crushing taxation usually preffered by Romans and Hellenes, relying on colonae/klerouchies as manpower sources.
Romans of course would mix it up, granting a degree of freedom to some conquered cities (eg Athens) but still taxing the arse off the province, and even absolving some tribal allies from taxation, only requiring soldiers for the Auxillia (Tacitus mentions somen German tribe like that, was it the Frisii?). I imagine the Hellenes did likewise?
This feature along with the colonae is going to give some real depth to province control.:2thumbsup:
Stay tunned for possible announcements on the EB fora... - about 14 hours ago from web
Can't wait!
:bounce::jumping:
I smell a preview...:yes:
I'm waiting !!!! When the news will be publied, I'll immediatly translate it into french and post it on the UTW'forum for EB II.
Is it just me or the next faction preview will be about one of the steppe nomadic factions?
"Nobleman horse archer for steppe faction was skinned, along with the horned-saddle horse. You'll faint! Another Gustave's great skin. - JMRC
Model of nobleman horse archer for steppe faction is finished. Preparing for skinning work. - JMRC
Another steppe horse archer is finished, along with the steppe pony skins. S kins by Gustave. - JMRC
Just integrated the 3rd steppe horse archer unit, from one of the most powerful sarmatian confederacies. Great skins by Gustave. - JMRC
2 more steppe archers (horse and foot variants) were finished, with model by Tux and skins by Gustave. - JMRC
A steppe horse archer with the bowman anims and overhand spear anims on horseback is assembled. - JMRC"
Let's hope so.
I think the next preview is about buildings though, as hinted at in the 'twitter exclusive'.
*hint*
Looks nice! I'm wondering how your going to square up the stats with the unit though as there's guys in that unit wearing just a helmet and tunic while others seem to have linothorax on.Quote:
Twitter Exclusive! Screenshot of a battle featuring the new Thureophoroi: http://bit.ly/1XwgaMabout 17 hours ago from web
Ah, who doesn't love the gray peasants....
Finished work on prototype code that gives players a chance to choose the next faction heir. - Atilius
One of the most important yet!!! Hope it works and it'll be major breakthrough!
The spears are so parallel, the Pathagorians would be proud!
Thats definately great! Otherwise you'll end up with someone adopted being king while the line must go on. :skull:Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Fist
Always nice to keep the line going. :2thumbsup:
And the Thureophoroi look great, but as has been said earlier, how to stat them? They don't have uniform armour now?
Most of our units don't have uniform armour, or were you not aware of that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalanx300
And statting is a matter of averages. Of course, which average is the important one!!
Foot
I said that since the stats of the unit was based on it. Now there is much more diversity and the stats will be harder to determine I gues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalanx300
Here you go...Quote:
And statting is a matter of averages.
I was answering the part of the post he didn't understood. :skull:Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatius Flaccus
Ok, didn't get that.
Quote:
Finished the eastern camps and an Sweboz spearman unit, skin and model, but the early version of it.-Tux
Quote:
British chariot texture is finally done. -Tux
Quote:
Another sweboz unit done, now the late version of the previous mentioned unit. Beards, scars and knots are featured in this one. -Tux
Amazing as always :2thumbsup:Quote:
A sneak pic at one of the casse models: https://i.imagehost.org/0937... https://i.imagehost.org/0686... -Tux
edit: the links don´t work, you have to visit Twitter :)
The picture was a bit small...:clown:Quote:
Barb settlements finished. And hi-res render of them:
What?! 768 pixels is a LOT...Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatius Flaccus
I don't think the link is working properly then, because when I open it the link the picture is extremely small. So much so that I cannot really tell any specific details about the image.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tux
He's joking, the pic is 32x24 pixels in size (32x24=768 pixels)
I'm sure the rooster told you that...:tongue2:Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
Haha sorry I didn't catch that, I'm utterly useless when it comes to technology...Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
The rooster knows many things...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tux
I'm tunned! :2thumbsup:Quote:
Stay tunned for possible announcements on the EB fora. -Praetor-
I'm tunned too! are we getting wine?:clown:Quote:
Stay tunned for possible announcements on the EB fora. -Praetor-
Hmm, a steppe faction preview coming...? Or an expansion on the provinces and authority twitter exclusive preview?
Speaking of the provinces and authority preview, I just noticed that at the end of the guide, there is a sentence that says that the previews are the "precursor to a number of Tutorial Campaigns."Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatius Flaccus
So it seems that the Gaza Campaign is not alone, there will be other mini-campaigns as well!
Some good news on Twitter, a new Gallic elite unit with 3 evolution stages and a new Hellenic elite units for 4 Hellenic factions, I gues it are the Hypaspistai.
I guessed that too, initially, but in EB1 only 3 factions have them!Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalanx300
http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...y&category=any
Maybe rather Peltastai Makedonikoi?
Perhaps Pergamon gets Hyspaspistai as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Folgore
Ah yes. Pergamon didn't really strike me as a successor state for some reason, but after reading the faction preview again, it is possible that they would get them too.
I hope in EBII you have the normal hypaspitay for makedonia too, at least until the reforms. Having the royal hypaspitai is great, but having the normal hypaspitai would be sooo cool, but maybe they would resemble the Thureporoi to much.:book:
What? :dizzy2:Quote:
Originally Posted by seienchin
Perhaps he means the Thorakitai, who currently are not available to Makedonia.
New update on twitter, seems to be quite a few Celtic units being completed at the moment.
To my shame I never played any of the two gallic tribes in EB1. If they're anywhere as good as what we've seen so far for EBII, I shall fix that asap.
I guess the next preview will be celtic...
You think? :juggle2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullheadhq
:clown:
We can only hope. :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullheadhq
I'm eager to see how they look like myself, I hope they'll have lots of diverse clothing/armour within their units.
Don't worry about that...:beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by hekk
Anothr update on twitter "3 Celtic cavalry units with 3 stages of evolution each (9 models), are finished and ready for skinning. - JMRC "
And a sweboz diplomat has been completed.
By my count that is at least 6 celtic units completed, going by twitter updates (unsure if the British/Casse units that Tux mentioned have been completed yet).
The actual chariot yes(skin and model), the soldiers not yet.
And well since it's almost Christmas and I'm feeling jolly and I wish to make the wait for the next preview(s) more nicer here's some pics:
https://h.imagehost.org/0155/p1.jpg
https://h.imagehost.org/0489/p3.jpg
Thanks Tux! It looks great!
Yeah!! that looks amazing Tux good work.
Great looking! but i wonder... if Tux is the good cop, who is the bad cop? :beam: