How did you notice me?Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
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How did you notice me?Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
I dunno. I just want to hear your opinions. Yours was the name under mine.
Well, I'm going to go with the thing that stuck out most to me yesterday. That was ATPG's vote switch to make it a tie. So, Vote:ATPG
I love you, Csargo. :heart:Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
LOVE ME MORE. :sweetheart:Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Impossible, darling. :love:Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
You have made 13 posts in this thread, but you haven't said much at all, allthough it is clear that you are following this game with much attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scienter
Yes, ATPG and Chaotix have a clear connection. That's why I mentioned it. As a result, ATPG immediately started to attack me. During the back and forth, I realised it wasn't likely Chaotix was his scum partner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
I've had a strong gut feeling against Scienter for a long time now; maybe I wanted to see a connection between both of them in the fact that ATPG flattered me (scum!) by stating that my gut feeling is golden and voting Scienter.
I'm sure if my case isn't convincing or clear. Note that in the Animus game people wanted to lynch me for several rounds (and eventually they did lynch me) and thought I was scum. In the end, it was shown that I was innocent and right about a lot of things.
This is getting frustrating.
Not immediately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
Go back and look at the time stamps on my posts. Well after I read the thread and all your posts, I posted this:
And like 8 hours passed before I made any further comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
On my first read I was simply catching up on everything that had been said, in this game and others. I took a break from the thread, came back, and attempted to use the time constructively by looking for anything unusual.
Although Reenk has a point that your comment about God Emperor may have had a purpose, in my mind, on a second read, I decided that it was coming from a place that wasn't genuine or useful. That may or may not be the case.
The point is, if this were some kind of reaction to your statement about me and Chaotix, where I would turn around and attack you out of flinching or emotion or whatever, there wouldn't have been some 8 hours in between.
Your impression of what I was doing is entirely wrong. This was pure scum-searching, and it's evident from the sequence of events and the time elapsed. If you're town and fair-minded, you'll realize that this is correct.
Before I have any suspicion of you in particular, I like to stand back and watch you work, and even encourage the death of your suspects. I've seen your gut lead to wonderful things before, many a time. I commented on your gut being golden in other games as well. This is my default position on you. That only changes when I know for a fact your gut is wrong, or when I suspect you're guilty.Quote:
I've had a strong gut feeling against Scienter for a long time now; maybe I wanted to see a connection between both of them in the fact that ATPG flattered me (scum!) by stating that my gut feeling is golden and voting Scienter.
If we're going to go that route, I could mention you voted to lynch me early over Kagemusha, and in the end it was shown that I was innocent and right.... We could do that, but it wouldn't be very useful to anyone. I know that you're one who doesn't like these games turning into a contest of who is right, and I tend to agree. Because you are right in other situations doesn't make you more right or wrong now. Especially if you're scum, and I laid out clear reasons why I think you are.Quote:
I'm sure if my case isn't convincing or clear. Note that in the Animus game people wanted to lynch me for several rounds (and eventually they did lynch me) and thought I was scum. In the end, it was shown that I was innocent and right about a lot of things.
If you think I am scum, you should be voting for me, Andres. Either back up your suspicions, or do not pretend to have them, my fellow blue man groupie. :wink:Quote:
This is getting frustrating.
Are you now saying that you think I'm scum because I think you're scum?
I suggest we lynch Scienter first.
No, and if you're innocent, I fear we're now just talking past each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
I think you're scum because I noticed that your continued offensive against God Emperor seemed like overkill, and so I looked on the rest of your posts in a critical light. I then noticed the same dual-attack that I've seen before from scumbags who tend to distance themselves from their partner while simultaneously accusing a townie, holding them up as equally "guilty", then following up on those "suspicions" in future rounds by (of course) picking the townie among the two.
I find that you're tossing suspicion on player after player in typical Andres form, but, I don't feel by your actions that these suspicions were genuine. Case in point, Chaotix. You weren't really interested in lynching him. Now, after I've accused you both, you've also prevented me from pressuring you into voting for Chaotix, because you've now stated that you think I am scum, and that Chaotix is not my partner.
After my attack on you, you've gone from saying Chaotix and I are connected and guilty, to just me..... oh, and also Scienter.
This is convenient, especially since one point I made was that Chaotix is likely your scum partner. Now, you've done all that you can to prevent me from asking you to back up your fake suspicion on Chaotix. Now, you have laid the ground work to prevent such a move, which would be devastating if you're both guilty.
Now, you think I am a main suspect and you're voting for Scienter. Is this some attempt at looking fair-minded? Or spreading the votes around like a townie, pressuring more suspects than just one? Maybe, but it also doesn't feel like a natural town reaction.
I'm calling for your head and you think I'm scum and there are other votes on me. You should be pressing my death harder, or explaining why you no longer think I am scum.
Explain your true position on Chaotix. Is he "innocent" because I am "guilty" and therefore he cannot be my scum partner? What if I am innocent, Andres? Isn't he worthy of some of your suspicion, at all?
I don't care that you're accusing me or Scienter. If you're townie this is normal and necessary. My main criticism of you has been that your suspicions all seem fake, and the ones I feel are the very fakest, you will refuse to back up with votes.
Either you or Chaotix are where I'm going to vote today, unless neither is a real option and it's at the deadline.Quote:
I suggest we lynch Scienter first.
I want to know if you still think I am guilty, Andres. I want to know what you really think of Chaotix.
I have also put Scienter into dangerous positions in this game, and voted for her early. Like Chaotix, it's really unlikely that she's my partner. Whatever/WIFOM I know you think this is not a valid argument.
Remember the three-way tie. I had Chaotix in the lead, and I put it tied with Scienter. If Chaotix isn't my partner because I put him into a tie the round prior, does that follow for Scienter as well? If not, why not?
Are you townie, Andres? I am not convinced you are. Show me.
Does everything need to have a reason in a game where guessing and being lucky are as succesful as analysing and following logical thought patterns? I've been doing the latter for a long time, constantly ignoring my intuition. Yes, my behaviour and posts may look erratic and odd. So what? Is that a problem in itself? Is that a sign of being scum? No, it isn't. You're condemning me for not following the usual play style. The usual play style hasn't been much of a succes for me; so I'm following my intuition now. It's difficult to build cases on intuition. It feels a bit like being mafia trying to find reasons to vote someone. I can say "gut", yet you'll still be demanding more explanation. I have no explanation, but I know I need to convince town. So cases sound fabricated, weird, odd, etc.
Meh, guess you'll have to get used to this new play style. I know I sound scummy. I admitted as much in the other game too.
I sincerely think Scienter is guilty, so my vote stays there. I'm going to be stubborn as a mule about this.
I'm innocent and that's the truth.
This, people. I don't like either the ATPG or the Andres lynch, but feel free to try them out after Scienter hangs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
Indeed. 13 posts with nothing substantial. Posts that give the feeling she is following this game closely. Some posts with suspicious timing. And my gut. What more do you need?Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamondeye
Your gut outside your body obviously. :laugh4:
We are not amused :snobby:Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
Maybe we all should do a re-read of your posts, hm? I'm sure we'll find something suspicious in them... :stare:
EDIT: in fact, you're showing similar thread behaviour as Scienter... More posts and many of them non serious, not exactly the same. Still, interesting.
I thought I was doing good as scum. Now you've ruined it. BAD ANDRES!
*runs off and cries*
And apparently, you're posting from a Mobile Device... :stare:
:laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
It says that sometimes even though you don't actually do, but yeah, still a scumtell :tongue:
Seriously, what is wrong with the Org?
I'm posting on my laptop and it keeps saying mobile device, and I have no idea why?
You're being evasive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
For all your talk of there being a connection between Scienter and myself, Chaotix and myself, there's a more demonstrable connection between you and Chaotix. I've placed both Scienter and Chaotix into mortal danger, and allowed rounds to end with their heads near the chopping block. Either I am doing this because I sincerely wanted them to die, and tried to make it so, or I am doing it because I am a big fake fake fake faker.
That means either I am guilty and they are not my partner, or I am innocent. So, either I need to die before they do, or I am innocent. You're picking a third alternative, going for Scienter first, while leaving suspect ATPG alive. If you suspect them, you can't genuinely suspect me at this point. As I said, if you think that my votes to put them near death have been distancing tactics, then it's because I'm guilty and I need to die as much as they do.
If they were not distancing tactics, then I wanted them dead, and in such a case, only one of us could be guilty among them. Since you have heavy suspicions on me, that again leads to the idea of lynching me first.
I don't follow your logic, Andres. This just all smells of the same fake suspicion. Do you want to leave me alive because I'm a tempting lynch target in the endgame? Do you not want to look obviously eager to get rid of me, as Chaotix does? What reasoning could you have to go for Scienter over me? You've offered none except that you wish to follow your "gut", not your analytical ability. But this also smells of fakeness to me.
You pick someone to analyze and you lay out a case against them because your gut says they are suspicious. You had a gut reaction on me, and then followed it up with reasons... reasons that aren't very plausible, to me, if you're honestly analyzing anything. The same reason you concluded Chaotix was not scum with me follows for Scienter, but you never made mention of that.
Confronted with direct accusations that you and Chaotix are scum, you are evading and being defensive by poking a finger at Scienter with the impossible to debate "gut" accusation. This is your way of shutting down anyone's ability to further look for gaps in your reasoning.
It's a strong defense, and it's a defense I feel you are using because you're scum, not because you don't enjoy a good debate. This is half the fun of mafia is making accusations based on gut feelings and trying to back them up with reasons. I know you enjoy a good attack and defend and back and forth. I've seen you do it in almost every game. I also don't really buy that you're just fed up with arguing with me, because that sounds plausible, but I think I know you better than that. I feel you're avoiding any strong point I make, and even making a point of saying you'll be "stubborn" on leaving your vote on Scienter, because you know you don't have a real case on Scienter, and you can't risk voting for Chaotix. You cannot risk being reasonable here, you have to go with stubborn and unreasonable, that way no one can talk you out of it, based on some principle of trusting your gut more.
But again, your gut was supposedly tweaked by me and Chaotix as well. Now I'm saying that you had both gut and some sort of case on others, but are backing down on that because you can't be reasonable here, it is game losing. I also feel that your bid to keep me alive when you "suspect" me is just a way of wasting a more valuable endgame lynch on a wrong suspect. Should we succeed in lynching you or Chaotix, the follow up may be to lynch me, so as to get both sides dead, just to be safe. Should I be wrong about Chaotix being your partner, this wastes even further lynches, as Chaotix will still be alive and I'll be insisting he dies as well.
So, a hypothetical non-Chaotix partner of yours will win the game, even if I push hard against both you and Chaotix, and that is the real reason why you have chosen these tactics as your defense. Your goal seems to be to waste time. If you can get Scienter lynched, so much the better, because that still leaves you, Chaotix, and myself alive, and you have to know that some of us are going to get lynched in future rounds.
Andres, you're a chessmaster at this stuff, and I am spotting tactics a chessmaster would use to win this game. They're logical and brilliant, as are you. To see you go into your shell and claim stubborn gut as your reasons here, don't convince me you're town, it only reinforces my suspicion on you in particular. Ironically, it pushes me to consider you more likely to be guilty than Chaotix. It's possible there's someone else you're covering for. It's obviously not Scienter or me...
So, I shall now look and see who else you might have waiting in the wings to checkmate the town.
The Divine Voice of the .Org is telling us Visorslash is scum!Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
But but but... I gave the knife to Pizza, honest!
It was his birthday. He wanted it.
You do realise that all this talk about my gut will lead to a very unpleasant lynch?
Unpleasant how? You won't taste very nice? Just throw a bunch of spices on there and say it's beef. No-one's noticed the difference.
(Trade secret ;))
ATPG, did you read my post post-edit?
Regardless, I've said what I had to say.
I'm innocent and I think Scienter is guilty. I even provided some reasons next to just "gut"; which you seem to ignore completely.
So will we know when we lynch a scum?
No, I've read everything you've had to say, and I've read the part where you said you have nothing further to say, presumably until Scienter is dead. I assume I will see your name on the list of people voting for me at the end of the round, conveniently, when the Scienter wagon doesn't take off. And it will be for gut + reasons, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
You're being uncooperative on purpose. Now, I'm halfway done analyzing the game, and I'll get back to doing that.
Pizza, when we're done murdering the rest of the campers, promise me you'll clean my knife?
Please?
We can take a photo before we wash it, for all the good times. All the innocent blood we spilled....
Ah....
I'm not being uncooperative :stare:Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
I've said what I had to say. If you deem that insufficient, then that's fine. But don't label it as being uncooperative, because that's clearly false.
Fine, you're being evasive AND stubborn, but totally cooperative, you nut. :beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
I deem you guilty AND insufficient. How's that? :laugh4:
By the way, Visorslash, it's totally obvious that YOU are my scum partner, if anyone is.
I wuv you scumbuddy. Maybe you can buy me a chainsaw for my birthday and we can take a holiday to Texas?
Sound like a plan?
By the way Andres, I hate to actually help your case if you're guilty, but if you're innocent, check out posts 233 and 234.
Tell me which of the two of us would be Scienter's scum partner. It ain't Pizza.
Of course it wouldn't, because you're MY scum partner Pizza.
At least help me do some fake analysis, man. We'll beat these townies yet if we employ thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
I don't see anything wrong with JHT's post #233 :shrug: It's a perfectly valid question and opinion.
You sure? My mindless ranting seems to slip under the radar pretty well. I'd be analysing my posts if I was town, that's for sure.
GAH! to you Andres. If you really thought Scienter was scum, and that I was linked to her, those posts should have proven there are others in the game with far more interest in keeping Scienter alive, and have demonstrated so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
For someone who is suspicious of things that aren't suspicious, I should think actually relevant and possibly suspicious behavior would be to your liking, but I can see I am wasting my time pursuing even your own case.
:tongue2: raspberries in your general direction.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
Our biggest weakness! AHH! IT BURNS US!Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Anyone got a tally? Andres style beef sounds nice right about now.
I've got more than a tally, I have the whole game. Check it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Andres: (ATPG, JHT, Scienter)
ATPG: (Chaotix, Csargo)
Csargo: (Visorslash)
Scienter: (Andres)
Current tally.
I am leaning Andres as top suspect, and then either Chaotix or Csargo as possible partners.
If Scienter is guilty, JHT is her partner.
For the lulz.
Unvote; Vote: Pizza
Just kidding. :P I would never do that to my scumbuddy.
Unvote; Vote: JHT
Sure, we have three lynches left (Two if both are failures). Why not? Maybe you'll listen to me when I'm dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
Tis only a joke scumbuddy. Don't hur- OW
Watch where you're sta- Jesus Christ!
I'm sorry. :embarassed:
You seem in remarkably carefree spirits at the moment, Visorslash. I take it the game is going so well for you that you're not particularly concerned with the outcome of this lynch?
I haven't been targeted for lynch or nightkill yet, so obviously it is going good.
The outcome of this lynch is looking to be Andres, but some late votes will appear, I will throw money on it. I'm debating whether to throw my vote on Andres, or keep in on JHT.
I mean, it's nice to be able to joke around in a game for once, without being suspected as scum. (Not saying I'm scum, I'm town. Still haven't gotten a scum role yet. I will eventually, I suppose.)
I'm sure any case on me won't stand up, because I have basically posted nothing. Kind've like what JHT does.
Keep joking around like this and at some point, people will suspect you.
EDIT: you remind me of Privateerkev.
Neither you or Yaseikhaan have been particularly concerned with the outcome of any lynch so far, and your voting pattern reflects that. This does not bode well for the endgame, because, if either of you are scum, you're both advancing through each round without concern, and if you're townie, you're doing absolutely nothing to decide between any of the top suspects in any round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
Even if you nominate someone for death, and consider them a top suspect, I feel you should place your vote on someone who is likely to die near the end of the round. Townie votes are the only things that kill scumbags, and if townies are divided, you can bet that scums will take advantage of that.
I urge you to play a bit more seriously here, because you're now setting off my lost game alarms. Either the game will be lost because townies didn't care, or because you were scum. That tells me, if I want any chance of success, I should lynch you and hope I am wrong about Andres.
Do you get what I am saying?
Okay then. Unvote; Vote: Andres
@ Andres
Privaterkev?
A member who left us a few years ago. He was very chatty, just like you now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
Why did you vote me? To please Pizza or because you think I'm scum? In case of the latter, explain please.
Visorslash is someone I predict great, great things for when it comes to Mafia. He's greatly impressed me in his first games elsewhere. He's absolutely someone worthy of being compared to Privateerkev.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
I'm very happy Visorslash is here. ~:grouphug:
And I'm very happy you're my scum buddy. :D Thank you again for the kind words.
Now, onto the serious business. Is there a case on Pizza?
I've admitted my guilt, and I'm defending my scum partner Visorslash by posting fake suspicion on him, while also posting fake suspicion on Chaotix and Scienter without lynching either one. I'm going to get innocent Andres lynched, and I'm defending myself with sarcasm, evasion, and Kagemusha references.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
Why I'm even alive is beyond me. That's the case on Pizza.
I prefer salami on my Pizza, but whatever floats your boat.
Gonna read through both your posts and come up with my opinion.
I have well more than two posts, and you know it. :clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
Only two worth reading. Other ones are mindless spam.
I just got pwnt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
I'm fine with my vote on Andres. It shall stay where it is.
I would like TheLastDays, Yaseikhaan, and Johnhughthom to weigh in.
Please feel free to use my summary of the game so far as a reference point. I'll remove the red from Andres and Chaotix' votes, that was a visual aid meant for me.
Andres counted my posts! Awww. :sweetheart:
I'm following the game and have actively been trying to participate because it's a vanilla game with not a ton of players and I'm trying to get better at mafia. I'm not up to Pizza's level where I can keep track of what everyone does and how everyone votes. But I've been watching carefully enough to try and defend myself when people want to hang me. :laugh4: Feel free not to believe me, we'll all know who's who when the game is over.
I'm of two minds, presently.
While it is necessary and prudent to find someone you think is suspicious and must die, you must always consider alternatives.
I'm either right or wrong on Andres. The odds suggest I'm wrong, but I have some faith in my ability to spot scummy behavior. That said, if I am wrong, the very safest thing for the scumbags to do is just let all this discussion tear the townies apart as they accuse each other.
So, if I am wrong on Andres, I would wager that one of the folks who hasn't spoken yet this round is guilty and loving this. A typical Yaseikhaan tactic, so I'll place a Finger of Suspicion on my old nemesis.
FoS: Yaseikhaan for watching us fail.
Scum, SCUM, SCUM!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Scienter
Don't worry, I'm voting...
vote: Andres
imo his case is the strongest atm...
I'm trying to get better as well. That doesn't make Scienter scum.
Though the last bit.....
You need to bold your vote. Also, Andres is spelled S-c-i-e-n-t-e-r.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastDays
What did I do?Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
How so?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastDays
You are full of it, Andres, and I intend to show why.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Day 3 you didn't follow up on Scienter, and Scienter didn't follow up on you.
In fact, you didn't follow up on Scienter again until day four, when Chaotix and God Emperor were the likely lynches already. You never put her in any real danger, in fact it was Khaan and myself who nearly got her killed, and the tie was broken by B_ray and Visor.
Later, I went after you hard, and now you're insisting on her death, in a single-minded and fakey fashion.
I conclude from this that it's actually quite possible that Scienter herself is your partner, oh king of the WIFOM. Now that you're my top suspect, you wish to prove how "serious" you are about wanting her dead, maybe to toss me off the scent?
If this is correct, kudos go to Renata who first proposed such an idea. I actually see where it is plausible now. Voting for Scienter when others are in the lead and there's no chance she'll die = useless vote as townie, distancing as mafia.
Voting for Scienter and campaigning hard for her death when you're a main suspect = further distancing. Especially if I have other suspects lined up instead of her.
Whatever the case may be, your actions are making Pizza see red. You're not genuine. There's something majorly wrong with you, Andres. If I'm wrong about that, I'm about due for another hat meal anyway.
Andres, why did you vote TheLastDays on day three?
Nothing, sweet prince. I was being very silly when I assumed that you would vote for me out of nervousness. That's completely against everything I know about you to date. You don't react to pressure in a way that is serious, ever. You're better than us, like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
Sweet prince? :inquisitive:
He's my rock candy. Sweet, with a hard rugged body.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
I'm not entirely convinced of my own reasoning (though what else is new), but regardless Andres and Scienter should both die. Both are legitimately scummy. If it's neither of them and no mafia have been lynched already, it's either lurker scum like a Csargo/Khaan pair (and the town has failed already by not pressuring them while it was still early enough to afford to do so -- instead of, for instance, ZACK :brood: ); or it's someone doing something fairly clever.
Here's the case on Scienter that Andres has persistently failed to highlight while simultaneously calling for her head:
Andres does his best impression of Sasaki.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
Deflecting -- there's no possible case at this point, no need to take this seriously. So why does she?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scienter
"I find it interesting" is one of the scummier phrases out there. "Yeah, right, vote: Andres" -- that's genuine. "I find it interesting (insinuate, insinuate, insinuate), FOS Andres" -- scum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scienter
Finally, the vote comes, at a point when Andres is in no danger of lynch. Scienter's never voted Andres since (unless she did at some point today).Quote:
Originally Posted by Scienter
Whether this is distancing or not, it is clearly suspicious from Scienter. The cautious, step-wise approach to accusing someone screams of unnerved mafia; the lack of follow-up only emphasizes the point. There are other scummy posts from her, but this is the best sequence to demonstrate it.
"I find it interesting" is a scum tell, I agree. There are some phrases which are just plain fake.
And JHT makes a fairly good partner for Scienter if it's not Andres. His votes minus day one have been SAFESAFESAFE, and I think the only time he questioned anything all game was to ask what the case was on Scienter yesterday ... flinch? I've said before the only way to reliably nail JHT is to pressure a partner; he is quite vulnerable that way.
I find that interesting. Unvote:, Vote:ScienterQuote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Hey, hey, hey, words hurt to you know :sad:Quote:
If it's neither of them and no mafia have been lynched already, it's either lurker scum like a Csargo/Khaan pair (and the town has failed already by not pressuring them while it was still early enough to afford to do so -- instead of, for instance, ZACK )
I find that interesting. Unvote; Vote: Csargo
And there are some players who are just plain cornballs.