In short, I don't think Sleep is thought processing like wolf would in their shoes. From what I have seen, I believe their thoughts come naturally
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In short, I don't think Sleep is thought processing like wolf would in their shoes. From what I have seen, I believe their thoughts come naturally
I know but that post just seemed weh the way you wrote it lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Cape90
Fwiw I do agree sleep looks towny and I prolly won't solve the game based on that list, was just an interesting one coming from a flipped wolf
Think this is a decent look for HK; the self awareness to point out the lack of read on a partner in the same sentence you're distancing from a second partner is a little much to imagine as being a real thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by hollowkatt
Not sure how much I want to read into this but the flat response to sleep's big wall is like... ehh I was gonna say +villa for sleep. Maybe it is a little. I'm just not sure how much I should read into any of monstr's posts given what happened. Like you can't really ascribe normal wolf agenda/valuation/thinking to someone to blew up like that and clearly had some stuff going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monstrdude
I do feel like this is +v for sleep. Given you have a flipped wolf talking about a confirmed v in Sunbae here, just like, the way he explains it, the length of the paragraph, the cadence of it, is very similar to what he does in the 3rd paragraph for sleep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monstrdude
the ender and ladd back and forth never had any real bite to it imo, I think it was just distancing/theater. They both found excuses to move off to other targets which they pushed much harder (ladd --> sleep, ender --> newcomb).Quote:
Originally Posted by nebjiamn
I think newcomb is probably a villager, in which case ender looks pretty bad. Him and ladd sussed each other, but ender found a way to go super hard in the paint focusing on newcomb with a progression that didn't seem particularly believable to me.
Alive: (13/17)
1. zack
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
7. Newcomb
9. EnderWiggin
10. Sunbae
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt
9. EnderWiggin
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt
Zack, Sunbae - innocent children :dancinglock:
cuth, rask - not really worth considering today imo (especially rask with the monstr interactions)
benneh, newcomb, sleep - not very interested in going here today either :smoking:
monty, roro, cape, HK - possible wolves but not worth pursuing yet, non-trivial reasons to think they are town
katze - talked about this a little already, sunbae seemed to agree with this placement, some nice posts but some sketch stuff too, can't take them off the table :undecided:
ender - the person who is left and I don't think has been villagy, sorry cuth :deal:
ignore that second grouping of names with the numbers, I copied the playerlist and was eliminating names as I moved down, forgot to delete before posting
I really don't trust monty at all for the record
need more from him
actually yes i agree with most of this (can i get a two worder on why you are IC because i prolly missed that unless it was a joke)Quote:
Originally Posted by zack
im clearly ic as well
cape i want to look into again, same with monty which is the one ive looked into the least. HK ive talked about. ender i had a lot of +es yesterday but i cant remember them today. Katze is a tough one tbh, i liked them in the newc thing but the rest of their posts have just existed and looked alright and i havent found anything thats stood out (i still have several pages ive just skipped reading that ill deal with tomorrow hopefully)
bruh
I claimed town backup and it has been mentioned ITT a bunch of times
lumps dolby in with two confirmed villas (me, csargo) and a probable one (benneh) then says to bomb newcomb and never really expands on nor pushes the dolby thing at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
the section encouraging everyone to think the wagons were w/w/v seems more like agenda-pushing than a genuine thought? I mean he clears rask without even considering that rask was a wolf wagon, even though he spends a paragraph talking about multiple wolf wagons being probable and wants to bomb newcomb into the stone age.
the reason for voting benneh seems silly, me and newcomb hadn't even flipped, talk about jumping to conclusions.
worth noting monty shouldn't really be getting credit for ladd vote, he tried to unvote but it was past the deadline
he kinda just seems like a wolf to me? ~:handball:
without even considering that rask could have been a wolf wagon*Quote:
Originally Posted by zack
edited by way of post
like from monty's POV, rask was a wagon against ladd (wolf) and newcomb (who monty seems to think is a wolf) and even expressed he didn't want to vote ladd and was basically doing it out of survival. monty spent time encouraging everyone to consider the possibility of multiple wolves being wagonedQuote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
but monty just ... blithely clears rask?
seems like he knows rask is a villager and since rask voted ladd, monty wasn't considering that he wasn't really clear from an uninformed POV
the perspective doesn't add up iyam
:coffeenews:
well i missed it bruh btu to be honestQuote:
Originally Posted by zack
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
im guessing sorcerer acts before mafia nk so you are basically just vt right
I'm not even sure why he's so insistent on bombing Newcomb and him being a wolf, it's not really explained other than "It's is extremely likely that there was at least one other maf among the many protowagons around EOD" unless I missed it. This read doesn't seem developed, more like latching onto the thread temperature and anticipating the direction it would be headed to encourage town to kill a villager.
I have no reason to think Ender and Monty can't be teamed off the top of my head, I don't think Newcomb listed them in his not w/w section either.
nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomb
feels weird when these posts are spread out over 40+ minutes but no one else is posting so it looks like I'm just being a spammer, gonna tap out for a bit lol
liking the monty stuff tbh, big i fture
VT? No. I am an innocent child. :square:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobby
ive been lurking but ive kind of just been watchingQuote:
Originally Posted by zack
i had written stuff on ender, honestly in my heart it did not feel like w/w interactions with ladd, i cant see it the way you do
but he has had one post since sod, and it was this:
and like...i dont want to necessarily take absence as a sign of guilt because people can have stuff going on that we have no idea aboutQuote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
but its kind of ??? to me
also ladd started shaded me after my votes on d1 had been ender and monty
:creep:
ender said he had a migraine, I don't think his absence is alignment-related.
he's aussie i believe, should probably be around before too long if he's feeling better (~:grouphug:, also ~:grouphug: to katze since I didn't respond to that earlier)
ah okQuote:
Originally Posted by zack
yeah just kind of...want to hear from him today
Driving by to just say csargoat. Hope you were cool with being chosen and you did great.
I've read the stuff today. Going to digest everything and drop back in overnight to give my general headspace for the game.
My biggest thought as of this moment is that nothing in this game that we've learned has surprised me. I thought Zack was a villager, he's now clear. I thought csargo was a villager and he crushed the vest. I thought Monstr was a wolf and Dolby's catch up was weak and the slot flipped wolf. I thought Ladd was wolfy and he flipped wolf. So I think the best course of action is to just continue on making reads based on who is trying to solve the game vs who is just trying to force things until something makes us think the game is more difficult than that.
It gets very easy in these games to start leveling yourself and expect the wolves to be playing at a 400IQ with a bunch of master plans and keep you from trusting anyone. Yet most often these games just result in "the list is full of great villagers and the villagers make themselves obvious enough that the game can get poe'd pretty cleanly".
Just keep it simple baby.
The ladd read I think looks good for dobby. The "in character" bit especially is just a bit pointed to say to your partner I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobby
Our approach now should be focused on clean up.
We have 4 known villagers and 2 known wolves, one of which was wolf KP. Let's work through various worlds, potential pairs, anti-allied people, and squeeze em out.
And we're well on our way to doing that already. Posting today has been very good for the most part.
Welcome to your new and improved Ender, Version.2:
* Now with less migraines.
I'm gonna heads up that I have read very little of D2 and my focus will be catching up on that for the next... Few hours.
Why Dobby could be town, an exercise in expanding my mind:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobby
1. It's pretty early to sus on Ladd here but Dobby does it. No wolf at this point is super concerned with positioning nor is there any kind of indication that Ladd could potentially be at risk here. While it's a safe position for a wolf to take, drawing attention to the position by including it as one of only four stated positions I think is risky. Ladd would need to go over quickly (basically D1) for the read to not look like TMI
unfortunately this is it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobby
I've gone through the rest of your ISO and frankly I'd kill you for it. It's not super great. Like the post I'm replying to and the post I quoted above are your towniest posts to me. The rest are kinda meh with quite a few "wtf" thrown in there, specifically when addressing me/your read on me.
Like these:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DobbyNo, I wrote a pretty extensive post about the type of reasoning he used and while I haven't pointed out other specific posts to nit full the thread with my catchup but it's been a general ah I don't like this tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by Winston Hughesso it's mostly gut?Quote:
Originally Posted by DobbyI had some posts but am on phone now and out so won't til eod, but generally the biggest feeling of "I don't believe that this is what he believes" in the gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Winston Hughesi still like hkQuote:
Originally Posted by Dobby
can you point me to why you don't?
(and apologies for my slackness if you already did)
I left the bold in there b/c I have no idea how you arrive at that conclusion, but the main thing I want to point out are your thoughts on my post here. It's nothing but word salad designed to look smart while not actually saying anything other than, in a nut shell, "this is a post I dobby can make as a wolf therefore it can be from a wolf"Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobby
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollowkatt
my thoughts on this is also a tough thing to explain but i feel like there's actually some weight to it.
it's easy to get like, tunnelled in your approach of reading someone, almost confbiasing. Like. Okay, first thing i think when i read ender's post is just this, he does seem to try to force out content, and then i can easily poop out words that add to the initial case i made to make it have some weight to it. This type of read is also... Easily fakeable. It's a tool i use as a wolf, because it's an easy way to play as mafia that looks really towny, and like you've done WORK, and it's a really hard thing to identify as wolfy and push. I feel like this whole post smells of that kind of thing. Add to it the last segment which kind of is a bit hedgy to cover for eventualities where Ender who based on what i've seen now, might very well be an early chop.
So yeah my thoughts on Ender aorn if i'm trying to decide if he's faking it or it's a personality/style of playing thing, is that it seems genuine enough for now and because of it being impossible (unless you know him really well, which i don't but also lolmeta) to judge which one it is, it's also something that a legit read shouldn't be based on. And the read HK is making here is making me :fry: way more tbh.
im not gonna tldr that because it was hard enough to word and prolly still doesnt make sense.
I think monstr is fairly clearly town (i isod him out of curiosity ofc) but i dont want to talk any more about him unless he comes back or smth.
And this is the "extensive post about my reasoning" that you've referenced above
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobby
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobby
None of these posts are good tbh. newcomb was townie enough that he really shouldn't have been run up at all. Raskol sure, I'll buy that. I thought Rask had wolf potential headed into today as well. I think I've been obvs town, your mileage varies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobby
I feel like the last post quoted here is something I see quite a bit from wolves in general. Basically taking the position of "I don't really want either of these wagons but if I have to choose I'll take X" where X more often than not is a partner.
dolby flips wolf, I put pressure on monstr D1, you literally do not acknowledge that pressure nor address how I could be partnered with either dolby (who said I could be town) / monstr (who did not acknowledge my existence).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobby
There's also this, which is just not true:
We're in D2 currently, you're not top posting. You weren't top posting D1. Even by vv lax definitions of top posting you're still (checks the ISO list) in the bottom half of post counts. It's whatever though, I don't expect total accuracy, just thought this was interesting to point out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobby
Then today is just a continuation of yesterday
Where's re-evaluations? Where's "maybe I'm wrong, I was wrong on monstr/dolby, I didn't want to participate in Ladd and that was wrong, maybe my reads aren't the greatest and I should stop and think"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobby
I have more respect for your game than to assume you're lost townie here basically.
anyways, vote: dobby might as well put my money where my mouth is.
damn, good post
dobby/monty?
:creep:
Okay I'm going to break this out of my long catchup post because I want to address this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
1. I point out multiple times during D1 that wolves tend to overexplain early because they feel the need to justify their reads.
If you look in my ISO I'm 90% sure I've vocalised this at least twice on D1. Because while it's not an 100% read, if I poke where the overexplanations are it's usually a good start. (Eventually this will be a dead read but it hasn't proven yet.)
With you I approached a very weird sequence as if I sussed it heavily and said "If you don't have an explanation", this is kind of a pressure that wolves respond badly to because, as a good old player once said, "Inconsistency is the goblin of wolfy minds." Wolves hate being inconsistent in their attempts to play unless they're good enough to understand that.
2. Why is pressuring someone to give an answer when you don't expect them to have one "slimy and opportunistic"? If you're talking about the way it reacted to the content around you, well sure you can sus me for that but I ain't got control of that so meh.
I don't think it's a bad play.
In fact I think it's a good play. And I'll defend that.