-
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Past games are irrevelant to this one, and no accusation was made in public. All I was doing was a simple look into facts by asking those who made the orginal allegation with a followup from some information gathered from that. You jump because it must of spooked you. Spooking because of a simple investigation using a little duplicity to get their facts is a tell to your actual role in this game. The only individual that is making this an accusation right now is yourself, you should of waited.
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Um, to double check - right now, Redleg, you seem to think Sasaki is guilty because of his rush to post your guys' PMs here, but you will have more...evidence...shortly?
CR
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Quote:
Originally Posted by luigi VI di Fatlington
We're not using any, nor asking for any.
Are
these screenshots?
From a post further up in the thread. It's right there if you want to look at it yourself. Quoting isn't convenient for what I was showing. He means of role pm's that kind of thing.
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Past games are irrevelant to this one, and no accusation was made in public. All I was doing was a simple look into facts by asking those who made the orginal allegation with a followup from some information gathered from that. You jump because it must of spooked you. Spooking because of a simple investigation using a little duplicity to get their facts is a tell to your actual role in this game. The only individual that is making this an accusation right now is yourself, you should of waited.
They clearly aren't irrelevant. I'm the same person I was then. And this is a direct quote from you:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
So decide to help lynch Sasaki
In private
Direct quote from luigi:
You are being duplicitous. And don't think the only reason I called you on it was self defense, I'm very interested in finding mafia, and this whole accusation smells of mafia. If you were simply looking up facts you wouldn't have lied. You didn't want me to know you were looking up facts, you distinctly tried to keep it from me. Why did you do that if it's "a simple investigation"?
-
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
They clearly aren't irrelevant. I'm the same person I was then. And this is a direct quote from you:
Yes indeed it is - for the simple reason I wasnot in those games. The past has no bearing on the present in this case.
Partial quotes are a weak effort in attempting to respond. That quote happens to be the message sent to an individual that I wanted to get information from. It has no bearing on anything other then the fact that I wanted information. A basic appeal to the individual to give me information. An emotional appeal in fact, attempting to gather information by appealling to the goal they had alreadly in the thread - to lynch.
Quote:
You are being duplicitous. And don't think the only reason I called you on it was self defense, I'm very interested in finding mafia, and this whole accusation smells of mafia. If you were simply looking up facts you wouldn't have lied. You didn't want me to know you were looking up facts, you distinctly tried to keep it from me. Why did you do that if it's "a simple investigation"?
Sure I was - something that you yourself have admitted to doing. Since I believe you to be false, that would explain the reason for why you were lied to. Now both of us claim to be looking for mafia, and now both of us have admitted to use duplicity to track down the mafia scum in this game. Once again the accusation is one of your making, not mine. Who brought a discussion that was ongoing between me and luigi to the thread? Was it me? Was it luigi? Or was it yourself?
Your attempt here very much smells of an individual who is wanting to distract any review of your previous posts in this thread. Frankly I have alreadly done so. As you can probably tell I have spent the last 3 hours in this thread reviewing, also going through my PM and saved PM text files. Now its time for a little sleep, followed by some proof reading. Don't be in such a rush to reach a conclusion - most likely someone will attempt to murder me and luigi tonight. The voting for the next lynch doesn't happen for a while. Plently of time to disprove any comments I might or might not make.
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Right. Just a note to you Sasaki fans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki
Fatal mistake, pever. You messed up the quote tags here. When you quote a pm to copy and paste it puts QUOTE in caps, not lower case. It's only lower case if you type it manually, as in when you are fabricating the pm.
Taken from this post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi
We're not using any, nor asking for any.
Are these screenshots?
From the Middle of Sasaki's big PM post (#1404104 is what i got doing this)
Do you have anything specific on Pannonian? In your detective role have you investigated him?
I am just waiting on a PM in response that confirms from him to confirm it.
[quote=Redleg]
So according to Sasaki's logic, all those pm's are fake.
:bow: Undone you have been?
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
~:confused: Pever what's that all about...
Seriously... when Sasaki is the Wolf I told you he was... I want an apology... I almost got killed... I gave you Pever as Don, MRD as Made, Told you Kralizec was a Don, Beirut a made... And Sasaki the Wolf...
And I get voted against for... SPAMMING... :shame:
I won't join this discussion, Pever and Pannionian shot to early messing up my gameplan, I had to rush in to back them up otherwise they'd be massacred by Sasaki... though the battle was close, I lost... I admit defeat and retreat in shame, REDLEG AND LUIGI, finish the ******* for me please.
-
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Well, get slammed by work, don't turn up on the thread for 36 hours, & sudenly have to wade through Moby Dick. I'm also beginning to think quality rather quantity of information is crucial here.
My brief thought are:
- Anything posted by pevergreen or TS is too confusing & irrational to truly understand - plus pevergreen's role as Don is self-admitted, but not confirmed by autopsy yet. My well documented distrust of Pannionian hangs on pevergreen's autopsy.
- Redleg does a lot of analysis or, more accurately, summation, but what are his opinions? See Ituralde or Luigi's posts for ideal concision & precision of argument.
- Seamus has only WOGed 1 person - which mean there are many lurkers out & about. For the sake of the town, these are the people we need to be worried about, surely?
Lurkers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fearmanagh
No Vote = 18 (Alexander the Pretty Good, Destroyer of Hope, Doc_Bean, Drisos, Hepcat, Ignoramus, MarcusBrutus, Masy, Papewaio, Peasant Phill, Reenk Roink, theRTWGuru, Tom_Hagen, Xdeathfire, Zalmoxis)
I've edited out Motep, Banquo's Ghost & Redleg from that quote.
As far I can see there are some longtime Mafia players out there in that list, many of whom aren't contributing except very occasionally (or just enough to avoid WOGing).
My call then is to any on that list who don't have the time to contribute (which is understandable) & but supposed to be helping the town, please suicide yourselves asap. That way we can focus on the remaining mafia (x5?), & their wiseguys (some of whom might well be promoted to Made by now).
@Crazed Rabbit - this is a response from about 5 pages back to a couple of points you made or asked of me:
- Re: my pursuit of Proletariat, I'm not aware that Ichigo has admitted to protecting (or is it trying to kill) Proletariat on N1 - can she confirm this? If so, fulsome apologies & bouquets of virtual flowers shall ensue.
- Re: Pannionian's double suicide request. I am not a detective, just a townie. It was an empty promise/offer that he knew no-one would/should accept, which is why he was safe to make it. It was this tactic, plus the PM from MRD he revealed that made him appear so suspicious.
Right, that's it for now, see y'all at sunrise.
-
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
I know Pever is a don... he's been investigated by a detective... A rogue detective... and as we know a rogue investigates slow but shows roles instead of guilty/criminal or innocent... and Pever turned out to be a don, MRD a made and beirut also a made...
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
I did vote, but many of those you mentioned do have a tendency to lurk, too bad random lynching seems like a very bad diea at this point.
-
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Yes Pevergreen, that was one of Sasaki's fatal mistakes. When you quote his name, or mine, in the way you did, indeed only the first names 'Sasaki' or 'Luigi' are quoted. You were right.
Sasaki's screenshot of it shows he is wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pevergreen
Undone you have been? :bow:
Yes, Sasaki has been undone. :bow:
Sasaki was awfully quick to PM Seamus and ask him to state it is forbidden to use screenshots, wasn't he?
He (and our noble host) need not worry though, our case isn't based on any. Why is it that whenever Sasaki is questioned he and his group immediately start to scream that no screenshots may be used? Afraid of something, old chaps? Got anything to hide?
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
I wonder if Kralizec and Beirut's Tataglia family already realises that it was Sasaki The Wolf who ratted them?
:sweatdrop:
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Quote:
Originally Posted by luigi VI di Fatlington
I wonder if Kralizec and Beirut's Tataglia family already realises that it was Sasaki The Wolf who ratted them?
:sweatdrop:
What do you mean, they were both lynched and Sasaki had nothing to do with it...
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ByzantineKnight
What do you mean, they were both lynched and Sasaki had nothing to do with it...
But where the evidence that led to their lynching came from?
-
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
But where the evidence that led to their lynching came from?
From luigi VI di Fatlington
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ByzantineKnight
From luigi VI di Fatlington
So you are saying that Luigi revealed the Tataglias and is now accusing Sasaki from doing that? Do you have evidence to support that?
-
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
So you are saying that Luigi revealed the Tataglias and is now accusing Sasaki from doing that? Do you have evidence to support that?
I posted before, he was the one who offered his expert opinion that it was a dutch/flemish person, he was the strongest voice in approval of Kralizec's lynching...
I'm not accusing him, i'm just stating that Sasaki did not turn them in.
-
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Allright thanks for your wiew.:yes:
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
But Ichigo posted the Andres PM... and Ichigo was Sasaki's contact... So Sasaki might as well have had alot to do with it behind the scenes.
When People look through the killing.
Moros, attacked by white glove.
MRD, killed by white glove.
Sir Boo, killed by white glove.
Stig, killed by white glove.
Sir Moody, killed by white glove.
Now, here it goes, Pevergreen told Sasaki who was in his mafia. When Sasaki ratted out Pevergreen he probably told the White Glove Mafia that MRD was Pevergreens made. Because Pevergreen had protection arranged by multiple groups (I also tried to set one up but failed) he choose not to kill Pevergreen but MRD. Moros told Sasaki of his role, next night, he was attacked by the White Glove Mafia. Stig, Sir Boo and Sir Moody probably refused to join the White Glove Mafia.
Kralizec and Beirut might have been ratted out or maybe we were lucky. But one fact remains, the White Glove Mafia is alive and is killing. Sasaki, no longer working for Pevergreen is probably working for them. His socalled pro-town behaviour is Pro-White-Glove.
Aggony Duck also told Sasaki his role and of his protection group, Sasaki probably set the kill up himself.
3 players who told Sasaki their role and could form a danger against him are attacked or killed.
-
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Quote:
i'm just stating that Sasaki did not turn them in.
To 'rat' someone implies you didn't publically turn them in. Sasaki destroyed them behind the scenes.
I got my information about Kralizec / Beirut from Big King Sanctaphrax. BKS had used his good relationship with Beirut (they're co-moderators of the frontroom) to infiltrate this family. Sasaki and BKS shared a lot of information. but I do not know the role of BKS, nor his relationship with Sasaki.
Most of the info on the two first, now destroyed families came from Sasaki. BKS and I shared information about them, I think BKS will be very surprised to read our case against Sasaki. Then again, he also doubts him, so I hope he can be persuaded.
My first contact with BKS was this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BKS
Hi Louis,
Sasaki says you're a townie, which is why I'm sending this. I've managed to infiltrate one of the mafia families, by pretending to be a wise guy, through Beirut. He's a made/Luca, and Krazilec is his don.
Here's the most recent PM he sent me.
Quote:
I'm getting pretty desperate here. By the looks of it I'm going to get lynched.
I know Beirut convinced you to unvote me, now I ask you to vote for Reenk Roink. It's going to be close and I need all the support I can get.
And I'll confirm your suspicion: yes, I am Don Tataglia. I hope I can trust you with that knowledge.
-Kralizec
Please, vote to have him lynched.
I was already suspecting Kralizec, through text analysis, but I wasn't quite sure. This PM however convinced me I was on the right track and I went public. My information about Beirut came from BKS.
-
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Ok, thanks.
Sorry for taking up your time.
-
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
ho,ho,ho! What's going on? What are we discussing I see that sasaki is being accused again, but could someone sumarize why? And stuff. This game is getting way over my head. Pfft
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Well it seems instead of being able to take more time to insure I had all the facts, the ability to cross check, and yes even the ability to bounce information across the parties concerned to verify information. I will have to post now instead of latter.
Now some will ask what stirred me into thinking that Sasaki could playing both the town and the mafia against each other for a victory condition that was different then the rest of us was this comment from pevergreen
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=627
an aside, Now The Stranger raises a lot of suspicion in the following posts, which after we settle the issue on Sasaki will need to be re-evaluated.
Now pevergreen posted a partial description of his role PM here.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...postcount=1219
Now in this PM is made is identified as Major Robert Dump. Lets remember this for a now because Major gives us a vital clue after his death.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...postcount=1249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
Hugh you are reading far, far too into my PM and not realizing with every mafia family also comes goals of individual self preservation.
Now to the information that I lost track of because I focused on a critical mistake of that individual instead of the information he was actually providing.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...postcount=1292
In that thread a quote that Pannonian stated comes from the original pre-edited post of pevergreen which I first missed and this is what liugi and I were discussing when Sasaki decided to post in the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pevergreen via Pannonian’s post
The last one has been edited out. Because of this:
You, and only you from your family, are aware of a special “friend” of the Mafiosi of Fatlington. Though not a member of your family...
Your death is part of the victory conditions for the other Dons, and will also severely limit your families chance of success as creating a new Don is time-consuming.
Followed by The Stranger’s post here
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...postcount=1298
Now in this post he exposes the Don Corleone role message. Where the statement that was also being discussed by luigi and I was this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The strangers post #1298
Each night you are still alive, PM me with instructions for your actions that night. These may be:
“Get some sleep” OR if solo “kill so-and-so” or “investigate so and so”
Investigations:
If investigated by a Detective or by a Made Gangster, you will almost certainly be discovered to be “innocent.” You will only register as “criminal” or “guilty” if you have personally participated in a killing.
Corleone Luca = GeneralHankerchief
Corleone Made = Major Robert Dump
The Wolf = Sasaki Kojiro
Now I initially dismissed this because I believed Sasaki’s follow-up post. What I missed in that post was this comment’s of the Stranger
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Stranger
Moros told Sasaki of his plans and of his role, an important one so it seems because he was attacked. AggonyDuck told Sasaki of his plans and of his strong group able to kill and protect, Aggony's death was a bitter blow to the town. The attack on GH can't be explained but I do think that I have an explanation for MRD's death. Sasaki first worked for Pevergreen and Pevergreen without a doubt told him who his family was. When Sasaki switched sides, MRD was killed. Sasaki ratted MRD to Pannonian and Pannonian ordered a kill, or maybe Sasaki did it himself.
Then we add this post in the discussion from Kalizec
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalizec post # 1305
The thing is, Moros, me and my underlings agreed from the start on to keep our family name a secret to outsiders. We never mentioned the family name to anyone we approached for recruitment or services. My family name only turned up in the beginning when Seamus started the thread, and when you posted your earlier remark.
By the number of mafioso lynched and some other information, any thinking townie can conclude that at least 2 of the original families have been crippled. But how can you know their names? You could only know the name of one family through your contacts, and could only deduce the name of the other one (mine) if you're closely related to the third family (the Barzini) wich has managed to stay clear so far.
Thanks for supplying another Mafia candidates in a indirect way Kalizec this will be evaluated latter but it will help even in this write up.
Now Sasaki’s first response to the allegations was this statement.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...postcount=1349
Very plausible and one that I initially believed counted the above mentioned comments of the Stranger’s post 1298, but in my skimming I missed the importance of the quoted paragraph from that post. Sasaki comments answers the generalities of the strangers post but not the specifics of the quoted paragraph. Coupled with the comment from [b]pevergreen[b] about victory conditions – my suspicion of Sasaki was renewed upon a review of the thread after the vote.
Now Lord Motep steps into the fray and this is another post I missed in my initial scan of the rapid fire exchange that was ongoing.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...postcount=1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Motep
Yes, we all know that Pevergreen is guilty. Very Guilty. And new evidence is pointing at pannonian. I have nothing new to add on the situation, but I will simply state that I am fairly sure he is guilty.
Vote: Pannonian
Now this in itself is not much evidence, but wait for the conclusion I will show where it is revelant.
Now Sasaki response to a question posed by Pannonian which I thought initially was not important until I go back to the original post by Pevergreen
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...postcount=1370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki
Not sure why he bought it so easily.
When I looked at the message again, it brings to possibilities to the front. 1) the stranger just got caught in a lie, or 2) Sasaki played pevergreen into giving up information. Both were the possibilities that I originally went with. Now however when I went back to review, and once again was discussing just this issue with liugi this statement rose a third possibility – Sasaki might not be telling us the truth.
Now once again pevergreen jumps into the discussion. Again my first assumption is that he is after Sasaki because of the lynching. So in my reading I only scanned the post versus looking at it in a more precise way.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...postcount=1384
Now Sasaki you responded with this comment.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...postcount=1386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki
God that must have taken you a long time. At least you've gotten better at imitating my style, except in that last one. It's funny how you didn't post these earlier but "just happened to find them". Accept it pever, you fell for my trap and I got lynched. No need to hold a grudge this long.
Now that was a good redirect and I initially bought it as valid in the skim, but lets add this PM of yours which is one of the last you sent before rushing to the thread to confront me and luigi because we happen to be discussing this very issue once again because we had concerns on your role in the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PM
Honesty
Certain events lead me to believe you have not been entirely honest with me.
Sasaki
My initial response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PM response
How so.
You don't believe the rumor that Major Dump attempt to plant now do you? A simple investigation will solve that particuler issue.
Okay to be more accurate lets also use the last PM sent by me to you. Not the accidentally sent one that was intended for luigi
================================================================================
From : Redleg
To : Sasaki Kojiro
Date : 2007-01-27 03:50
Title : Re: Honesty
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the last message he sent me. My reply to follow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
So you are saying you think Pannonian is the last Don? I don't have any results on him.
Sasaki
I am about 75% sure of it, I am still awaiting the email from him that will either confirm my suspecion or force me to another trail. If you have not investigated him yet, that would be the course to take I think.
He struck me as town. I'd have to see the evidence first.
I'd also like to knew what you and luigi are talking about and what this means:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichigo
Just to let you know Redleg is trying to make a case against you and trying to get me to give up information. From what I've heard their's a lot of people who link he is the last Don, but that's all heresay. Just thought I'de warn you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichigo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichigo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Now I have had finally a discussion with The Stranger that I could understand. I kind of see his point about Sasaki now that its not so convoluted with the spam. If your still interested in making a case against him I need information. Whatever you are willing to give. I think if I have enough information I can find the weakness in the information posted by him in the thread to actually get him to stumble - but I need the intel that will allow me to do this.
Tell me what you know and I'll try to fill in the gaps that I know of. Sir Don.
So still working on that rumor that was planted by Major Dump - rather interesting.
TS informed me of alot of different things - and I am trying to confirm his story. That requires information that from another source that is independent of his. So decide to help lynch
Sasaki if you have information that contradicts what he posted in the thread or not? Your choice.
Well that's just it I haven't read anything that the Stranger has claimed cause most of his posts are rubbish. If you tell me what he claimed then I might be able to help you plus what MRD said.
Ichigo
Then I will get back to you in a day or two, because its going to take a bit to sort out what
TS actually stated in the thread and what he has given me for now and what he has promised to provide me.
ratfink?
================================================================================
What the message shows is that pevergreen could have actually been shown the exact discussions that you to had.
Now this post is a good counter to the validity of pevergreen posts
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...postcount=1390
however I missed one thing – I too sent you a message that I edited out a portion of your comments because I didn’t need them in my response. Its very possible that pevergreen was showing us a message that had undergone just such an edit.
Now when I first looked at pevergreen’s follow on post I thought what a flimsy response until I looked at the PMs that I saved to a text file, something new for me because I normally just delete PMs. But with the scope of the game I found myself learning something new. From my text file saved PM’s.
Image my surprise that the save format was pretty much the same as stated by pevergreen because initially I assumed he was lying to get you lynched.
he Guild;https://forums.totalwar.org/vb
Private Message Dump for User Redleg; 01-26-2007 14:30 -->
################################################################################
Folder : Sent Items
################################################################################
================================================================================
From : Redleg
To : JimBob, Pannonian, Seamus Fermanagh
Date : 2007-01-22 16:52
Title : Protection mission Pevergreen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A citizen protection group has been formed to protect Pevergreen, the citizens that are forming this group are Jimbob, Pannonian, and Redleg
================================================================================
From : Redleg
To : pevergreen
Date : 2007-01-23 04:27
Title : Investigation Request for next night phase
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If no better suspect comes out of this night phase and the discussion for the lynching - if you don't mind keep luigi VI di Fatlington in mind for one. I am going to attempt to draw some more information out of him during the next day phase.
================================================================================
From : Redleg
To : luigi VI di Fatlington
Date : 2007-01-23 12:45
Title : Re: Hello
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by luigi VI di Fatlington
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Quote:
Originally Posted by luigi VI di Fatlington
I am primarily focusing on protecting my fellow townie's.
Hello Redleg,
Now that you're a director, could you spare your protection group to protect me for the night?
My group is tied up protecting another townie.
So far, we've killed three mafia. Kralizec is a don, and Beirut was his luca. GH was a luca too.
Have you got any clues about the identity of the remaining mafia yet? Any leads?
I have it on good authority that The Stranger is a townie. I think we can assume for the moment he is.
I have alreadly committed two groups, let me see if there is still time to get a third.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The xxxx is my separation of the text file cut and paste and the remaining of this discussion.
This cut and paste demonstrates that to accurately portray the PM [b]pevergreen[b] would have been required to edit the quote functions at the beginning of the message. (Lesson learned when using the text file saved PM, cut and paste the way the text file is actually saved).
This Sasaki was one of the points I did not initially understand that pevergreen was attempting to explain.
Now this message sunk pevergreen’s argument if General Hankerchief is telling the truth. But we already discovered that he is prone to deceit with his messages after his murder.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...postcount=1410
So on the surface you made a good defense of the accusation against you. But as pointed out you did not address a few points. Which is a sound tactic when presented with an inconsistent accusation.
Now for the PMs I sent to people to get some follow-up information.
The original message – now I am cut and pasting from the PM’s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg’s orginial message
Now I have had finally a discussion with The Stranger that I could understand. I kind of see his point about Sasaki now that its not so convoluted with the spam. If your still interested in making a case against him I need information. Whatever you are willing to give. I think if I have enough information I can find the weakness in the information posted by him in the thread to actually get him to stumble - but I need the intel that will allow me to do this.
Now these messages were sent to four people. Ichigo pevergreen pannonian and Major Robert Dump
Here are the initial responses.
From Pannonian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
Is this a fishing expedition, all the better to lynch me with? I'm saying no more, all the efforts I've made to help the town have been spurned and turned against me against all reason. If you want Sasaki, go get him yourself.
[b]Pannonian’s[b] second response
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
You and TS have already done a hatchet job on me, and even in this exchange you've already threatened me, so I'm not particularly inclined to comply. I've already warned that Sasaki should be killed while we had the chance, but TS and his like were too involved with their egos to listen to my advice.
If you want me to join the campaign against Sasaki, give me the material you have and I'll see if I can make something of it. Then TS should post the list of vigilantes in the thread so we can lynch them one by one. I don't want a PMed list that he can deny, I want a public list so everyone can see. Without the preliminary act of trust and this most important of pro-town acts by TS, I have no reason to trust you, especially as you've already lied about my deceiving you in PMs.
From Ichigo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichigo
ell me what you know and I'll try to fill in the gaps that I know of. Sir Don.
The second response from Ichigo notice the cut and paste doesn’t grape the initial quote tap. Another possibility for pevergreen’s need to edit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichigo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Now I have had finally a discussion with The Stranger that I could understand. I kind of see his point about Sasaki now that its not so convoluted with the spam. If your still interested in making a case against him I need information. Whatever you are willing to give. I think if I have enough information I can find the weakness in the information posted by him in the thread to actually get him to stumble - but I need the intel that will allow me to do this.
Tell me what you know and I'll try to fill in the gaps that I know of. Sir Don.
So still working on that rumor that was planted by Major Dump - rather interesting. TS informed me of alot of different things - and I am trying to confirm his story. That requires information that from another source that is independent of his. So decide to help lynch Sasaki if you have information that contradicts what he posted in the thread or not? Your choice.
Well that's just it I haven't read anything that the Stranger has claimed cause most of his posts are rubbish. If you tell me what he claimed then I might be able to help you plus what MRD said.
Ichigo[/quote]
Notice on this message how the quote tags are indeed messed up. Cutting and pasting from a text file takes a lot of review and editing to insure you got the information correct. When one is in a rush its very easy to make an edit mistake. In fact this edit is a result of that, I had to fix several quote tags because they were incorrect, As those who read the orginal post before this edit can verify
Now the really interesting response came from Major Dump
Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
I honestly didn't talk to him all that much. After Pev told me he was our secret guy, i sent him results of my PMs and expressed concern that pev was posting too much and playing too many sides at once, to which sasaki responded that i should not worry about pev it will all work out. I am curious why he never teamed up with me for a kill, though. Also, GH and I neve4r had a discussion about sasaki i dont recall, only that pev told me he alerted GH to sasakis role.
He seemed to assume Pannonian was a townie, and that all the wiseguys were working for a town win, and he discouraged me from contacting wiseguys
When I sent Sasaki a pm asking what it was exactly he did, sent me a brief explanation, told me he was posing as a wiseguy and then sent me the official wiseguy pm. Thats the only pm I still have actually.
round 1, you came up unclear and proleteriat innocent
round 2, you came up unclear and pannonian innocent
there, i investigated you twice, big guy
only mades can recieve an "unclear" result when they run an investigation, which is how i think pevergreen drew outside suspicion by claiming he had a detective on his side and then claiming people were coming up unclear, something that a detective would never get. I dunno.
Now for pevergreen’s last PM to me.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Quote:
Originally Posted by pevergreen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Now I have had finally a discussion with The Stranger that I could understand. I kind of see his point about Sasaki now that its not so convoluted with the spam. If your still interested in making a case against him I need information. Whatever you are willing to give. I think if I have enough information I can find the weakness in the information posted by him in the thread to actually get him to stumble - but I need the intel that will allow me to do this.
What do you want?
He was given to my family only, but used the role to fool other familys. Only in my case, he was on my role pm. He continued normally until i said i had deleted my day 1 pm's. Then he acted as if he didnt know me. Covering himself.
He left me and started working for Pannonian, who betrayed his mafia family.
It would be great if you had the role PM. But if you have a PM that talks about any of the assignments that you wanted him to carry out, I might be able to use that to counter something in the thread.
I never told him to do anything, he was just going to protect my family from investigations, but by doing that, i would owe him a favour.
So he never did anything for me.
I dont have his role PM, and mine is posted multiple times in the game thread.
Now frankly is not much evidence against you on its own, circumstantial at best, but given the nature of the accusations made by those in the thread, and your rushing to the thread because me and luigi were discussing the possibility that you duped us all, leads me to conclude that you have indeed played us all very well.
Your undoing was that you had to weave a pretty intense tangle of deceit, and in doing so rushing to prove your innocence when no accusation was made public seems a little suspicious.
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Well, now I feel less guilty about accidentally exposing Beirut :laugh4:
Sasaki was never informed about my PM scheme because I distrusted him from the start, though I suppose he could have told BKS about my role in the game. Beirut was told, but it doesn't seem likely that he told BKS or Sasaki about it.
I send that PM to BKS because at that point I had nothing to lose anyway, though in retrospect I realise that it was incredibly stupid and unnecessary to give him the actual name of the family.
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Quote:
Originally Posted by luigi VI di Fatlington
We're not using any, nor asking for any.
Are
these screenshots?
I believe they are.
So far, I don't thinkk anybody has posted the kind of screenshot that requires an immediate WoG, but I just wanted to remind folks to avoid them completely. Thank you.
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
You guys are spending your ammo tooooo early... again...
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Look at it from my point of view Redleg. I receive a pm telling me you are plotting to get me lynched. I start pm'ing, and two people who were previously proclaiming my innocence are lying to me and pm'ing each other. Lying + plotting to lynch the detective = a good chance of being guilty. I posted the pm's in the thread, and now you have had to go public with your plot. From your posts it is evident this upsets you, and I can see why, as I suspected you don't have a case. You know it isn't much of a case which is why you immediately try to point suspicion at me for posting the pm's. When I point out that this is not at all inconsistent with my behavior in Mafia IV where I underwent similar weak accusations, you dismiss it as irrelevant because you hadn't played in that game. It appears you can't afford to lose this point. I will go into further detail then.
Not all townies act the same, and not all mafia act the same. There are certain behaviors that are attributed to each, but if someone exhibits a behavior when they are townie it ceases to be a mafia tell. Whether you were in the game or not has no relevance. You seemed to be misinterpreting my reaction so I pointed out a game with me as a townie for comparison. Your refusal to give up this point is one of the most suspicious things about you. The 2nd most suspicious is the caving to perceived public pressure evident in your posting of the evidence before you were ready. You were obviously worried that public opinion would turn against you.
Now, on to your actual "evidence". This is interesting. The first section is a recap, then you go into a length description of why pevergreen's pm's were cleverly faked, and then you post some pm's from mafia members. The main accusation in your post goes back to the "something to hide" statement which has been refuted. Now, to go from statements of my innocence made yesterday to "sasaki is guilty" said today by luigi, would require substantial evidence...if he were town. There isn't substantial evidence, so it seems more likely he is mafia. If he really has been convinced by that then he is less perceptive than his other posts indicate. To me this smells like an attempt to lynch me now that I can't be nightkilled. I think you have some explaining to do. To spend three hours reviewing one would have to have more significant suspicions than the ones you have posted...or more motive for removing me from the game.
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Look at it from my point of view Redleg. I receive a pm telling me you are plotting to get me lynched. I start pm'ing, and two people who were previously proclaiming my innocence are lying to me and pm'ing each other. Lying + plotting to lynch the detective = a good chance of being guilty. I posted the pm's in the thread, and now you have had to go public with your plot. From your posts it is evident this upsets you, and I can see why, as I suspected you don't have a case. You know it isn't much of a case which is why you immediately try to point suspicion at me for posting the pm's. When I point out that this is not at all inconsistent with my behavior in Mafia IV where I underwent similar weak accusations, you dismiss it as irrelevant because you hadn't played in that game. It appears you can't afford to lose this point. I will go into further detail then.
That point of view is not one of an innocent man and is another indiciation of your duplicity. Again saying that I plotted is another indication of your guilt. I find your attempt more damaging to your case then it helps. Attempting to use others to gain information is not a plot. Its as simple as that/
Having not played any of the other games your comments about other games are not relative to any discussion between you and me concerning this particlur scenerio. Again your attempting a weak hand.
Using moderator powers to spy on others - lets see that more damning then me and luigi discussing the possiblity that you are attempting to fool us all. And you frankly have admitted to that.
Quote:
Not all townies act the same, and not all mafia act the same. There are certain behaviors that are attributed to each, but if someone exhibits a behavior when they are townie it ceases to be a mafia tell. Whether you were in the game or not has no relevance. You seemed to be misinterpreting my reaction so I pointed out a game with me as a townie for comparison. Your refusal to give up this point is one of the most suspicious things about you. The 2nd most suspicious is the caving to perceived public pressure evident in your posting of the evidence before you were ready. You were obviously worried that public opinion would turn against you.
Tsk tsk a weak rebuttal - not very good at all. Using previous games that I was not a particpant in, nor have I read - does not make a sound arguement.
But why don't you explain the unfair advantage you have over everyone - the use of moderator abilities while playin the game. That my fine feathered friend is a cheat regardless of how you attempt to justify it. You used it to expose the fact that the stranger was attempting to fool others.
That's okay I don't mind, but for someone that claims they are after mafia players a lot of conservations have been geared around certain statements, too many individuals have refered to the special player and the evidence points that you have that role, or that you are using your moderator powers for an unfair advantage over the rest of us.
In my mind either one should get you lynched.
Quote:
Now, on to your actual "evidence". This is interesting. The first section is a recap, then you go into a length description of why pevergreen's pm's were cleverly faked, and then you post some pm's from mafia members. The main accusation in your post goes back to the "something to hide" statement which has been refuted. Now, to go from statements of my innocence made yesterday to "sasaki is guilty" said today by luigi, would require substantial evidence...if he were town. There isn't substantial evidence, so it seems more likely he is mafia. If he really has been convinced by that then he is less perceptive than his other posts indicate. To me this smells like an attempt to lynch me now that I can't be nightkilled. I think you have some explaining to do. To spend three hours reviewing one would have to have more significant suspicions than the ones you have posted...or more motive for removing me from the game.
Again a weak rebuttal to the post - you have been hiding something. You have used duplicity, and frankly your using your moderator abilities for an unfair advantage in this game. I find it rather amusing that you feel the need to use moderator abilities to win a simple text base game. Frankly that in itself leads me to conclude that yes indeed pevergreen, Pannonian and the Stranger all were correct.
Just like I suspect the stranger of being a made mafia of Kralizec's family because of the information he has exposed in the thread and the trail of information that I have looked at. And then as mentioned in the PM's to you, I strongly suspect Pannonian is a member of the third family, maybe even its Don.
Which leaves only you having more information then the rest. Is this because you have been playing the families for a victory condition of your own, as pevergreen alluded to way back in the beginning? As a special role you will have your own set of victory conditions.
If its only because you are using your moderator abilities to figure out the mafia players then so be it, but that sir is an unfair advantage and taints the game for the rest that don't have it.
So where does that leave us in this game. My conclusion is rather simple and has been posted alreadly.
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
This fight's going nowhere fast. It could just be an intra-town squabble between 2 strong characters.
Redleg - you're working hard, but it's all blather, or easily edited (I'm not agreeing wth or refuting it though). Can you tell us what mod powers he has used? Other than what I've argued against Pannionian, do you have further evidence?
Saski's role PM was very believable, that's why he saved himself from a lynching. If you want the town to convict him, you'll have to put forward a case as simply as that.
Sasaki - you now have potentially 6 investigations (or 4 & 2 killings) whilst you have night time immunity. Correct? Your cover's blown, so let's start seeing some results. You've exonerated luigi already, I believe, so unless he's Don, he's not mafia. Investigate Redleg & publish. Investigate some of these dangerous lurkers, who normally play greater roles in these games. You know them better than I.
We must have other detectives - I'm sure TS is the conduit for one. Investigate these lurkers & PM Ichigo with the results - everyone knows he's a townie, so he can post them with impunity.
This is the lurker (no vote) list as posted by Seamus:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fearmanagh
No Vote = 18 (Alexander the Pretty Good, Destroyer of Hope, Doc_Bean, Drisos, Hepcat, Ignoramus, MarcusBrutus, Masy, Papewaio, Peasant Phill, Reenk Roink, theRTWGuru, Tom_Hagen, Xdeathfire, Zalmoxis)
I'll put it in my signature too - just to keep it fresh in the mind.
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Re: Capo de Tutti Capi (in play)
@Hughtower
address your concerns with Sasaki and ask him why he was so neverous that me and luigi were discussing things via PM to each other? And then simply ask him how he knew that we were PMing each other?
An innocent man does not mind someone going back and discussing the issues to insure no problems are presented. It seems Sasaki has taken issue that I decided to contact and gather information from the four individuals that were accusing him of duplicity.
Duplicity is what the game is about, the ability to prove it is the key to winning the game. I find it interesting that while Sasaki has acknowledge his own use of duplicity he has a problem with my use to determine if he has played the town for fools or not.
If he had not posted in the thread - my investigation might have gone nowhere. But as it is, Sasaki attempts lead me to another conclusion. Every individual in the game has the ability to reach their own conclusion - I have just posted mine for criticism, review, believe, or disbelief.
