Are there any places that are just Magyar? I thought they just integrated inot hungary like alot of other fallen stepped tribes..
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Are there any places that are just Magyar? I thought they just integrated inot hungary like alot of other fallen stepped tribes..
As always, in Europe -- more so than any other place -- it is impossible to track down a so-called "pure" (excuse the term) community with a single ethnical identity. The melting pot in Europe is simply too big and too hot.
So, ethnically there is no place where there are "pure" Magyars. With the Magyars this is even more so than with even the Germanics (who mixed with the Celts and any other people they came across), since -- and even in modern history this is believed to be true -- the Magyars were mostly devoid of womenfolk when they came to the Hungarian plains and therefore raided for women more than riches in the beginning.
Later, the object was to acquire riches, and to create a ring of weakened neighbors so that the Magyars, who had become the typical warrior aristocracy that precedes the absorbtion into a new culture/ethnicity (as with the Bulgars and Turks), could easily keep their subjects under control, and create a lasting state.
This worked; Hungarian is a Finno-Ugric language (Magyars were a Finno-Ugric tribe or tribal confederation), and the culture of Hungary combines Slavic and Magyar elements, but I would be surprised (not to mention opposed to) someone saying that Hungarians are as Magyar as those warriors that rode in from the Russian steppe in the ninth century.
~Wiz
Besides, there would certaintly be some Avar, Qipchaq (Cuman), and other steppe tribes mixed in there, correct?
You know Steppe my friend.Eastern Finno-Ugrig peoples were nomadic steppe people.Magyars originate from area called Sargatka in Southern part of river Ural in Southern Siberia. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
Sorry, I should have said other. I know that the Magyars were steppe people, I meant there would be other tribes in addition to the Magyars.
Ofcourse there was these people werent homogenetic back then.Magyars spent about 150 years in the area called Levedia which is located At Ukraina north from the Sea of Azov.There they had connections with both Kasaars and Alaans.Also people called Kabaars that revolted against Kasaars joined them.Before they continued their journey to Hungary. :bow:
Nationalism is a 19th-century thing anyway. Before that people identified themselves by locality, language (which tended to differ markedly from the technically-same language spoken for example just fifty kilometers away - local patois was the norm among the common folk, while the more "international" layers like merchants, adminstrators, clergy and aristocracy more often than not spoke some lingua franca such as French, Latin or Mandarin Chinese with each other), overall culture, and usually most importantly overlordship. By and large the majority of folk could hardly have cared less about what their superiors spoke amongs themselves or what their usually rather mixed and dubious ancestry was - what was important for them was which lord demanded what dues and when, and what horrible things he'd do to you if you didn't deliver. And when marriage arrangements, inheritance, conquest, imperial land grants and whatever could change those overlords (or just plain neighbours) right quick, what did it matter anyway ? And when most people never traveled beyond fifty kilometers from their home village in their entire life (except perhaps as a part of their military obligations), what did it matter to them where exactly the newly-arrived settlers in the next valley over came from or what language they spoke ?
Incidentally, AFAIK the Huns (or Hsiung-Nu as they were known back in China) were a Mongolic people and not a Turkic one (so much as such lines can now be drawn with the generally extremely polyglot, multi-ethnic nomad empires). They may also have picked up their name from a people living north of the Black Sea they presumably assimilated during their migration, or not.
And in regards to the original topic, I'd say Europeans in general terms - after all, the current worldwide military paradigm is one that originates and is still best mastered in the "European" culural sphere (which includes the odd still-thriving brances like South Africa, North America and Israel - Japan also came to succesfully adopt the same methods if not quite other cultural traits), and then there remains the fact that inside some fifty years an insignificant little subcontinent went and put almost the entire rest of the whole globe under its collective thumb, and didn't have too hard a time at it either. 'Course, as we all know, keeping it proved to be a bit of a bigger problem, not in the least due to the prevalent habit said culture-sphere has of testing its new military means into destruction against itself... Although that seems to have stopped now. I'd guess it became too expensive a means of field-testing.
Have you also read the book Eurooppalaisten Juuret by Kalevi Wiik? :book:Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
Doesn't ring a bell, although I vaguely recognize the name of the author. Nah, the latest I read on the topic was Imagined Communities by Benedict Anderson and Hobsbawm's Nationalism. 'Course, as a PolSci student I tend to read rather a lot of material that touches upon the subject anyway...
Well I'm sure that you could find people who descended directly from the Proto-Magyars, the old Carpathian Aristocracy.
as wiz showed us you probably can't, even a thousand years ago it would have probably been hard. The real point though is you claimed to not be hungarian, but a Magyar. Magyar as an individual race dont exist anymore. The same could almost be said of the celtic rae, though ireland could still be caled Celtic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar