Glory of Persepolis' goes on screen in response to insulting movie `300'

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Originally Posted by artavazd

kak diela minime :shakehands:

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Дела в порядке, спасибо :2thumbsup:
Как твои?
Артаваз, ты не горячись, смысла нет =)

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Originally Posted by Watchman

In the case you didn't know, not messing with the peculiar local practices of assorted diverse fuzzy-wuzzies you've ended up as the overlord of was the norm for all big multi-ethnic "old school" empires. Lasted until the appereance of nationalism in the 1800s; the amount of grief for example the Russian and Ottoman Empires created for themselves after having been bitten by the nationalist bug, and their eventual fates, tells volumes of why the "old school" approach had been so universally observed.

It should be noted, however, that "old school" empires usually didn't give a rat's ass about treating everyone equally. Quite the contrary; they tended to devise highly complicated sets of rules, laws and privileges for different groups, communities etc. whose main point was ensuring those could go on coexisting reasonably peacefully, didn't cause trouble, and could contribute to the benefit of the realm and its rulers.

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He he You westerners do everything to make sure your beloved greece will remain superior over other ancient civilizations because as artavazd indicated ,Westerners consider greece as the origin of the western culture.

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Originally Posted by artavazd

The only remenents of the original indo-european peope will be the Armenians.

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Oh artavazd ,You're wrong. Still majority of Iranians are Ayan as well. I don't suppose I am an arab !

Hehehe, it's always interesting to trace, find and define the thin red line between patriotism, nationalism and racism ;-)...

At least now people are posting in Russian and I can get what the hell is going on. :P

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Originally Posted by Tiberius Nero

At least now people are posting in Russian and I can get what the hell is going on. :P

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Don't you dare say you didn't knew before that we, Ze Russians are the only true descendants of proud Bartixian civilization :P

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Originally Posted by artavazd

watchman you have a hard time understaning what people are posting. You put down stupid sarcastic remarks such as huh? wat? Do I not speak English well? I think you need some sleep to get your senses back.

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Now that I've slept on it, they still don't make an ounce of sense. And I'm used to deciphering pretty complex text. Either the messages are getting garbled by a language barrier, or they were nonsense to begin with. I'm inclined to believe the latter, personally.

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I qoute you watchman

"That's easy to answer. Russia was not yet invented in the classical era, so it's neither west nor east."

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I didn't say that. That was il-principe.
:dizzy2:
Get your quotes right at least.

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

Don't you dare say you didn't knew before that we, Ze Russians are the only true descendants of proud Bartixian civilization :P

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I don't know whether I should feel proud or insulted....

If you want to get technical about it, there was no Persian Empire post-Alexander the Great. A good part of the known world became a Mediterranean-Macedon-Grecian hegemony not to mention the fact that the main influence was Macedonian, not Greek. Greeks and Macedonians are racially and culturally similar but they are not exactly alike. Call a Macedonian a Greek or vice versa and you're likely to get your nose pushed in. It's kind of like the similarities between Bisquick and Nesquick. They are both powder, both make something when mixed with milk but try to drink Bisquick and you'll likely wind up with a really nice stomach ache or try to cook Nesquick in a pan and you'll get a very weird looking brown/black lump. Further, the Persian Empire was not any more or less tolerant than any other ancient empire in that part of the world. If you want to call it anything, call it Mediterranean culture since the majority of the countries that have access to that body of water exhibit some sort of Greek, Macedonian, or Roman influence each of which contain aspects of each others culture as well. K-Cossack is right BTW, the main barrier to the spread of so-called 'dominant' cultures has always been geographic/topographic. Rivers, mountains, deserts all played major roles in how various races/cultures developed and spread so pointing out that the Ural mountains are a major east vs. west border is probably correct.

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Call a Macedonian a Greek or vice versa and you're likely to get your nose pushed in.

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Not this again ffs. Macedonians of the "Republic of Macedonia" (FYROM) have nothing to do with Macedonians of Classical times and after, they are Slavic. If you say to a northern Greek (whom we call "Makedones" in Greece) that he is not Greek, he will punch you in the face, badly. Northern Greeks (Makedones) have a reputation for being the most nationalistic of Greeks in the modern Greek state.

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Originally Posted by Tiberius Nero

Not this again ffs. Macedonians of the "Republic of Macedonia" (FYROM) have nothing to do with Macedonians of Classical times and after, they are Slavic. If you say to a northern Greek (whom we call "Makedones" in Greece) that he is not Greek, he will punch you in the face, badly. Northern Greeks (Makedones) have a reputation for being the most nationalistic of Greeks in the modern Greek state.

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No? Really? Modern Macedonians have no connection to their cultural past? I'd like to see you tell one of THEM that. That's interesting. I know ancient Greek and ancient Macedonian were similar (indo-european - greek dialects), not exactly alike mind you but similiar. The national language of modern Macedonia = Macedonian, an indo-european slavic dialect, official language of Greece= well, Greek (indo-european Greek duh? dialect). Modern Greek is spoken well, alot of places including Macedonia (just because there's a border doesn't mean culture doesn't cross). Latin is only an official language in Vatican City but I'd like to see you tell an Italian that they have no connection to ancient Rome. Now back to the original point. If the modern Greeks speak modern Greek (and live in Greece) and the modern Macedonians speak modern Macedonian (and live in Macedonia) then I could see how telling someone that lives in Greece and/or speaks Greek that he isn't a Greek might tick him off. I believe that the original statements that were being made alluded to the division between east and west. I said that you should call it Mediterranean because frankly, there has been so much mixing and mingling, wars, etc. that east and west really aren't very good descriptions. The Romans and Celts influenced each other but I certainly wouldn't consider them to be kindred. Were the phoenicians eastern or western? They came from areas that are now Lebanon, Israel, and Palestine and proliferated all along the Med coast. Archaemenids/Sassanids held that area later which I suppose are considered to be eastern empires. Hodge podge is an understatement if you ask me

Whatever, thats irrelevant. Just do some research on the Slavic peoples and you will see the geographic and historical improbability of FYROM propaganda, which is at most a few decades old anyway, about any sort of connection to the ancient Macedonians.

It is impressive how people get carried away by names so easily. A national name is often derived by the place of the region you live in; if you live in the general region of Macedonia, you are a Macedonian, and that is what their name is about. It doesn't mean they have anything to do with the ancient inhabitants of the region. Northern Greeks are called Macedonians too.

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The national language of modern Macedonia = Macedonian, an indo-european slavic dialect, official language of Greece= well, Greek (indo-european Greek duh? dialect).

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Armenian and Sanskrit and Hittite are Indoeuropean dialects as well; your point? I am not waiting for you to lecture me on linguistics btw.

Do you have any knowledge of Slavic dialects? Do you know some of the handful of words given as Macedonian by ancient lexicographers? They are completely unrelated.

Anyway, I am the last person you could call a nationalist, and I despise nationalist propaganda by the Greek state with all my being, wherever I encounter it; this is the reason why I despise FYROM nationalist propaganda so much as well, because it couldn't be more idiotic and improbable, and still it is apparently working.

Say what you will on the subject, I wont pursue further, I don't care, ignorance is the mightiest force on earth at any rate, what is to be done?

Arent the slavic languages from a completely different group than the indo-europeans. They certainly have nothing in common with the greek languages, and are a much later addition to the baltic states.

Foot

Slavic languages are Indoeuropean; it is theorised that they are close to the Baltic languages, but not certain whether this is due to geographic proximity (which leads to loaning), or common ancestry. From my experience they share a lot of vocabulary with Germanic languages as well.

Greek is considered "relatively isolate", like Armenian. It belongs to a larger group but has no close relatives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_family

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages

Maybe this helps...

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Originally Posted by Tiberius Nero

Greek is considered "relatively isolate", like Armenian. It belongs to a larger group but has no close relatives.

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This didn't stop Greek from affecting most of the Western languages, mostly through Latin but still.

Given that Latin was fairly closely related to the rather widespread Celtic languages...

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Originally Posted by Tiberius Nero

Whatever, thats irrelevant. Just do some research on the Slavic peoples and you will see the geographic and historical improbability of FYROM propaganda, which is at most a few decades old anyway, about any sort of connection to the ancient Macedonians.

It is impressive how people get carried away by names so easily. A national name is often derived by the place of the region you live in; if you live in the general region of Macedonia, you are a Macedonian, and that is what their name is about. It doesn't mean they have anything to do with the ancient inhabitants of the region. Northern Greeks are called Macedonians too.



Armenian and Sanskrit and Hittite are Indoeuropean dialects as well; your point? I am not waiting for you to lecture me on linguistics btw.

Do you have any knowledge of Slavic dialects? Do you know some of the handful of words given as Macedonian by ancient lexicographers? They are completely unrelated.

Anyway, I am the last person you could call a nationalist, and I despise nationalist propaganda by the Greek state with all my being, wherever I encounter it; this is the reason why I despise FYROM nationalist propaganda so much as well, because it couldn't be more idiotic and improbable, and still it is apparently working.

Say what you will on the subject, I wont pursue further, I don't care, ignorance is the mightiest force on earth at any rate, what is to be done?

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So the inhabitants of Central and South America have no claim to the heritage of the Incas, Mayans, or Aztecs? By your argument, it sounds like they don't. It feels to me like your motivations are more political than factual. I'm not here stating that the leader of modern Macedonia is the reincarnation of Alexander the Great, just there is a connection (northern Greeks could also make a claim as well). The point is that Iran getting torqued over a movie made about a battle 2500 years ago is really well....weird.

Given that the movie in question is all but made for the express purpose of pissing somebody off, not really.

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Originally Posted by Watchman

Now that I've slept on it, they still don't make an ounce of sense. And I'm used to deciphering pretty complex text. Either the messages are getting garbled by a language barrier, or they were nonsense to begin with. I'm inclined to believe the latter, personally.

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Pff ya right, you understand. I won that argument now you refuse too accept anything else.

Why not just explain how russia can only be east or west? :idea2:

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Originally Posted by K COSSACK

Why not just explain how russia can only be east or west? :idea2:

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Where do you keep coming up with this stuff, I wonder ?
:dizzy2:
You are the one who had the brilliant idea of tying "easternism"/"westernism" to pure geographical locale, after all. Figure out yourself where it's flawed to Hell.

Out of all 300-related threads this one receives the award for giving me a genuine headache. Really, I got to hand it to Watchman for his energy (There must be something in the Koskenkorva), because other than him, and a few others (You know who you are), the rest of the content, the bulk of the 400 or so entries of this thread are either spam or purely off-the-topic garbage, irrelevant for all purposes.

As for the subject itself, I said in a previous 300-related thread that I hope that the Islamic usurper regime of Iran haven't perceived any of my sarcastic, and highly critical rantings as ideas; This is truly a worst case scenario, because in the midst of my rant on the Tu-Quoque mentality, it seems that they indeed found the "idea" of Persians as impervious knights armoured in plate far too appealing to dismiss (To my disgruntlement, naturally... But idiots do have that effect on me).

The case is also notorious in the fact that it is audacious; The Islamic usurper regime of Iran has no right to claim itself the heir of a great, glorious worldly power that has inspired my entire life, and to be honest, none of the 70 millions of yellow, cowardly dogs and sheep whom I mistakenly call my countrymen have the right to claim or entitle themselves descendants or heirs of ancient heroes and emperors. Not when they allow women to be mistreated, not when they treat religious and ethnic minorities like sub-human filth, not when they hire goons to vandalize heritage older than Islam, not when they spend millions upon millions of dollars for restoration projects of mosques in foreign countries and especially not when for barely 28 years ago some millions went out in the streets, readily inclined to hand over the power to an illiterate cleric who have written books on animal sex in accordance to the Islamic figh, and the same people endorse a simian beast who endorses and condones the destruction of Israel.

They have no right to anything of Iran's glorious past, when they beat themselves bloody to muslim massmurderers and womanizers and put their own children to this torture, while praising Arabs who have no place in Iranian culture. They have no right to any of this, when they still adhere to the creed that subjugated their forefathers, all the while cultural heritage and literati was extinguished, all the way from Ctesiphon to Chorasmia, in the name of Islam and that cursed lizard-eating barbarian Umar Ibn Al Khattab, "Righteous Caliph" and Companion of Mohammed Ibn Abd'allah, abandoned child of a whore, the Attila of Arabia.

Somehow, I knew this was going to happen. Being filthy hypocrites, they use Partho-Sassanian castles as garbage disposal sites, hire thugs to desecrate cultural heritage, cut funding for Iranologists and their institutions, and call non-muslims in particular Zoroastrians "As descended from beasts", arresting whomever protests against this cursed dhimmitude and subjecting them to torture, and now these shit-eating monsters have the audacity to make a movie, and now truly intent on bringing my country's truly remarkable history into shame. Didn't these monkeys attack and vandalize embassies due to a bunch of cartoons and only then bring their own stupid, infantile Tu-Quoque contest on caricaturizing the Holocaust? Dipshits, all of them, and especially the 70 millions of Iranians of whom less than ten percent could turn the tide of the entire country by just walking out the streets in protest.

Iranians can be some of the most racist people on this planet (Well, only the Tehrani). They bash Arabs and Turks, heck even ethnicities within Iranians, yet even Turks protest for retaining their secularism, by going out in millions, protesting Erdogan, Abdullah Gül and his pro-Islamic party, the AKP. Iranian men have lost their spine, even as their women, daughters and mothers are being apprehended by militia for "inappropriate dress-code". Bollocks. These cowards have no right to call themselves descendants of Cyrus, Darius, Ariobarzanes, Surena or even the mythical Rustam. These are the same dipshits who celebrate Nôwrûz, or Iranian (Screw "Persian") New Year, while reciting the Qur'an or some other garbage which has no place in Iranian culture. Now they want to make a Tu-Quoque movie on Iranians during their "Jahiliyyat"? That's the stuff of stand-up comedy. Alexander The Great is one of the most bashed historical figures within Iran, but God forbid one can criticize Islam for crimes more than ten times worse than Alexander's conduct in Tyre and Persepolis.

The whole is issue can be summed up as ridiculous and childish. Brought to you by the same clowns who started whining and causing ruckus over mere caricatures.

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Originally Posted by Watchman

Where do you keep coming up with this stuff, I wonder ?
:dizzy2:
You are the one who had the brilliant idea of tying "easternism"/"westernism" to pure geographical locale, after all. Figure out yourself where it's flawed to Hell.

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You said that what are russians they're all the same.

COSSACK-"An easterner is somebody from the mid east and asia.:2thumbsup: "

Watchman-"How do Russians count ?"

COSSACK-"* a BIG shrug

A european west of the Ural, an asian east of the Ural."


Also Eastern-asian

Western-european

So what happens when Boris the Engineer moves from St. Petersburg to Vladivostok with his wife ? And how does the kid they beget there count as ? How about his wife's lineage actually harks back to Siberia ?

his leneage...nah

The kid, hes russian but he'll be Eastern or Western when it comes to geography.

So what's the point anyway ?

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Originally Posted by Watchman

So what's the point anyway ?

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All had to do with one question by Artavazd.

Which was sort of pointless too.

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Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract

Out of all 300-related threads this one receives the award for giving me a genuine headache. Really, I got to hand it to Watchman for his energy (There must be something in the Koskenkorva), because other than him, and a few others (You know who you are), the rest of the content, the bulk of the 400 or so entries of this thread are either spam or purely off-the-topic garbage, irrelevant for all purposes.

As for the subject itself, I said in a previous 300-related thread that I hope that the Islamic usurper regime of Iran haven't gotten perceived any of my sarcastic, and highly critical rantings as ideas; This is truly a worst case scenario, because in the midst of my rant on the Tu-Quoque mentality, it seems that they indeed found the "idea" of Persians as impervious knights armoured in plate far too appealing to dismiss (To my disgruntlement, naturally... But idiots do have that effect on me).

The case is also notorious in the fact that it is audacious; The Islamic usurper regime of Iran has no right to claim itself the heir of a great, glorious worldly power that has inspired my entire life, and to be honest, none of the 70 millions of yellow, cowardly dogs and sheep whom I mistakenly call my countrymen have the right to claim or entitle themselves descendants or heirs of ancient heroes and emperors. Not when they allow women to be mistreated, not when they treat religious and ethnic minorities like sub-human filth, not when they hire goons to vandalize heritage older than Islam, not when they spend millions upon millions of dollars for restoration projects of mosques in foreign countries and especially not when for barely 28 years ago some millions went out in the streets, readily inclined to hand over the power to an illiterate cleric who have written books on animal sex in accordance to the Islamic figh, and the same people endorse a simian beast who endorses and condones the destruction of Israel.

They have no right to anything of Iran's glorious past, when they beat themselves bloody to muslim massmurderers and womanizers and put their own children to this torture, while praising Arabs who have no place in Iranian culture. They have no right to any of this, when they still adhere to the creed that subjugated their forefathers, all the while cultural heritage and literati was extinguished, all the way from Ctesiphon to Chorasmia, in the name of Islam and that cursed lizard-eating barbarian Umar Ibn Al Khattab, "Righteous Caliph" and Companion of Mohammed Ibn Abd'allah, abandoned child of a whore, the Attila of Arabia.

Somehow, I knew this was going to happen. Being filthy hypocrites, they use Partho-Sassanian castles as garbage disposal sites, hire thugs to desecrate cultural heritage, cut funding for Iranologists and their institutions, and call non-muslims in particular Zoroastrians "As descended from beasts", arresting whomever protests against this cursed dhimmitude and subjecting them to torture, and now these shit-eating monsters have the audacity to make a movie, and now truly intent on bringing my country's truly remarkable history into shame. Didn't these monkeys attack and vandalize embassies due to a bunch of cartoons and only then bring their own stupid, infantile Tu-Quoque contest on caricaturizing the Holocaust? Dipshits, all of them, and especially the 70 millions of Iranians of whom less than ten percent could turn the tide of the entire country by just walking out the streets in protest.

Iranians can be some of the most racist people on this planet (Well, only the Tehrani). They bash Arabs and Turks, heck even ethnicities within Iranians, yet even Turks protest for retaining their secularism, by going out in millions, protesting Erdogan, Abdullah Gül and his pro-Islamic party, the AKP. Iranian men have lost their spine, even as their women, daughters and mothers are being apprehended by militia for "inappropriate dress-code". Bollocks. These cowards have no right to call themselves descendants of Cyrus, Darius, Ariobarzanes, Surena or even the mythical Rustam. These are the same dipshits who celebrate Nôwrûz, or Iranian (Screw "Persian") New Year, while reciting the Qur'an or some other garbage which has no place in Iranian culture. Now they want to make a Tu-Quoque movie on Iranians during their "Jahiliyyat"? That's the stuff of stand-up comedy. Alexander The Great is one of the most bashed historical figures within Iran, but God forbid one can criticize Islam for crimes more than ten times worse than Alexander's conduct in Tyre and Persepolis.

The whole is issue can be summed up as ridiculous and childish. Brought to you by the same clowns who started whining and causing ruckus over mere caricatures.

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Well its about F***ing time you showed up Persian Cataphract! I thought you were going to ignore this thread but I understand why you finally responded. You've pretty much summed up my feelings on this movie.(The Iranian one, not 300.)

I'm even beginning wondering how they'll depict the Arabs, bet yah instead of the Jews they'll have Cyrus free the "Once brave Arabs warriors who were wrongly captured by the idol-worshiping Babylon, and once freed, Cyrus brought to them the word of Allah, and they would go back to their homes and one day the Prophet will use this knowledge to bring peace blablabla."
I can see the nightmare now!

Like I said, I'll be surprised if the Mullahs let this one through, and I'll be even more surprised if they don't throw in a bunch of Pan-Islamic garbage to put a spear through the IRM once and for all!:thumbsdown:

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Originally Posted by Watchman

Which was sort of pointless too.

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Know what else is pointless? your post.

You're making progress, young padawan. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Watchman

You're making progress, young padawan. :yes:

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When I met you I was but a learner, now I am the master.:knight:

The true test of an adept's mettle, Grasshopper, is recognizing pointlessness whenever it first appears and not twelve posts later.

Guys thats enough, I have a feeling this topic is going to be closed soon so please stop spamming.:help:

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Originally Posted by Watchman

The true test of an adept's mettle, Grasshopper, is recognizing pointlessness whenever it first appears and not twelve posts later.

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Pointlessness comes from the source all pointess things Watchy "the babbler"

Hi guys,


Just a quick note on the historical issues that surround 300.
The movie isnt supposed to be based on the true historical record but upon the Comic book which tells the basic and dramatic version of the historical battle.

The movie was never intended to be true to the original tale.

As such I dont see the point in condemning the film for historical aspects.
Simply the movie is based on the comic book version of real events.

:juggle2:

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Originally Posted by The Celt

Guys thats enough, I have a feeling this topic is going to be closed soon so please stop spamming.:help:

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You say that like it's a bad thing.

I haven't followed this thread (or any thread that is huge) but from what I've seen recently, it may need to be closed...

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Originally Posted by muzrub

Hi guys,


Just a quick note on the historical issues that surround 300.
The movie isnt supposed to be based on the true historical record but upon the Comic book which tells the basic and dramatic version of the historical battle.

The movie was never intended to be true to the original tale.

As such I dont see the point in condemning the film for historical aspects.
Simply the movie is based on the comic book version of real events.

:juggle2:

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Welcome to page 1 of this thread...

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Originally Posted by Ardu

Welcome to page 1 of this thread...

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Welcome to what most likely will be the last page too.

Ba Durood e besiar Savar'e Parsi and it's I see your post here (King returns):2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract

to be honest, none of the 70 millions of yellow, cowardly dogs and sheep whom I mistakenly call my countrymen have the right to claim or entitle themselves descendants or heirs of ancient heroes and emperors.

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I can't either agree with you or not. Besides that minority who are elements of the regime and those who get great advantages by cooperating it ,There are majority of people who are against it ,But they don't want to put themselves in trouble and they afraid of the regime:no: But to be fair ,This regime is not a simple dictatorship ,It is an idealogical system which its idealogy is Islam :skull: which means the most terrifuing system the world has ever seen ! because unlike for exmp Communism ,It has been tied up to heaven (Who knows what the hell is in the heaven). You know better that mullahs job is to controlling the people and they learn and get degree for it in Islamic schools like the one is in Qom. I for myself like many others at my age had to learn (And still have to in the university) how to read Quran and learn about Islamic shits. But interestingly ,The result was not in their favor and for example I couldn't imagine that one day in Qomcity There will be people who deny even the existence of God ! We have still heros in our country (We have many traitors as well :shame: ). Students ,women ,workers ,Now doctors and even teachers who are hand picked because they should educating the youth:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract

Not when they allow women to be mistreated, not when they treat religious and ethnic minorities like sub-human filth, not when they hire goons to vandalize heritage older than Islam, not when they spend millions upon millions of dollars for restoration projects of mosques in foreign countries

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These are all the Islamic Republic ,Not the people themselves. People for example they don't want thier money being payed to Hezbullah in lebonan or insurgencies in Palestine.

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Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract

not when for barely 28 years ago some millions went out in the streets, readily inclined to hand over the power to an illiterate cleric who have written books on animal sex in accordance to the Islamic figh, and the same people endorse a simian beast who endorses and condones the destruction of Israel.

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Correct ,But that revolution had reason ,Pure freedom. and we know how it went to nowhere. "Shah" suppressed all other parties but left the mosques and mullahs free. People had no alternative except the mosques. Shah even didn't let the media or encourage them to have free discussion about Islam (This 1400 years old misfortune) and let the know it better. Yes ,The former Regime did many mistakes:sad:

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Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract

Didn't these monkeys attack and vandalize embassies due to a bunch of cartoons

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That denmarky cartoon story was fun ! When this news about that cartoon spreaded around the world ,Most of the Islamic countries (If not all) did protest against it at the first day or two. This regime which claim are islamic and wants to be the leader in the islamic world waited for 5 days and expected iranians to show their disapproval against this Caricature (And some others in other medias). But when it saw people have no care about it ,then ordered its elements to protest against denmark embassy to show at least the islamic countries that "our people are unpleasant because of those Caricatures" !(Foreigners may thought they were oridinary people ,But an Iranian can identify them at the first glance)

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Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract

70 millions of Iranians of whom less than ten percent could turn the tide of the entire country by just walking out the streets in protest.

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I do agree. But people many of them say that we need a respected/Honest and trusted leader. They also don't know if the free world will support them.[There are more reasons though]

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Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract

Iranians can be some of the most racist people on this planet (Well, only the Tehrani).

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True true ... Sadly:no:

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Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract

Turks protest for retaining their secularism, by going out in millions, protesting Erdogan, Abdullah Gül and his pro-Islamic party, the AKP

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Although your comparison is a bit unjust because Turky's regime is far more better and democratice than Iran's one ,But still congrats to turkies because of their understand of how mutch precious is their democracy and secularism:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract

Iranian men have lost their spine, even as their women, daughters and mothers are being apprehended by militia for "inappropriate dress-code". Bollocks. These cowards have no right to call themselves descendants of Cyrus, Darius, Ariobarzanes, Surena or even the mythical Rustam.

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Actually I should say ,Iranian women have balls instead of men. They are really brave who withstand against this regime for their rights and shame to us iranian men who sometimes stand and wathing:shame:

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Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract

Alexander The Great is one of the most bashed historical figures within Iran, but God forbid one can criticize Islam for crimes more than ten times worse than Alexander's conduct in Tyre and Persepolis.

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Another undeniable fact :no:

Spepas'e besiar for this post Savar'e Psrsi ,Very good:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by The Celt

please stop spamming.

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Thank you Celt man:yes:

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So the inhabitants of Central and South America have no claim to the heritage of the Incas, Mayans, or Aztecs? By your argument, it sounds like they don't.

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I am not used to comparing apples and oranges, I leave that to others.

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It feels to me like your motivations are more political than factual.

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That is probably because you have no idea about the facts, while thinking that you do.

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The point is that Iran getting torqued over a movie made about a battle 2500 years ago is really well....weird.

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It happens with people of nations with more than 250 years of history to look back to, they get fussy over how their past is treated. Especially if their present situation is much inferior to their past one. I have noted this is a particularly difficult point for U.S. citizens (especially) to grasp, from many posts asking "why the hell does it matter how an ancient battle is depicted". Well apparently it does.

@TPC and Kambitz

wow guys im amazed, these posts make me to feel better, that is cause here in my country italy (and i think in other countries, see europe and us) when you think to iran, the ordinary men (the man of the street), he tends, in my opinion, to think to iran as a sort of misterious think, very closed, immobilized, and as an whole block, closed in a sort of religious ideology... in few words, like somethink of dangerous...

you really make justice to the good sense.
I can say im not agree 100% to some of the sentences, but that's just a matter of opinions, I, personaly, tend to see islam, like other religions: somethink historical (there is a birth, there is an apogee, there is a decline, there are new needs, there is the birth of somethink new etc...) so i see nothink bad if iran in the past has completely took the islamic culture, i see it as an historical need, like the crhistianity in europe (if christianity had that huge success in europe, that was cause it completely fulfilled the needs of that Era), so in this view, for example if Giulianus was an idealist (and he has all my simpathy), Costantin on the other side was a realist (he has not my complete simpathy, but i have to admit he understood where the thinks were going). On the other side, i think islamic culture has took a lot of persian elements, same as crhistianity has absorbed and revitalized a lot of latin/greek valours in the past. The problem is that somethink that can be an huge success in an Era, and completely fulfill the needs of that era, in another Era, where the needs are changed, it can become a mortal burden...
So the valours that could have been so vital in the past, so prolific and renewing, with the birth of new needs, and new valours upcoming, they can become mummified and sklerotic. And we all know what does it happen when they become sklerotic and exclusivists... expecially for some religions (see christian/islam/ebraic) who are already exclusivists from their birth... (while for example the oriental religions like buddism etc. are not exclusivists but sincretists.)

So i completely share the spirit of your posts. And i think the man of the street, should read it to understand there are people of good sense in every part of the worlds...

Vivat the Iran, his culture and his huge heritage!

PS kambits, have care of yourself, i think to have understood you live there, while tpc not. So i think it can be dangerous sometimes to overexpose yourself and your ideas.
Salute!

Thanks Obelics for the kind words :)
Hopefully it would be the last post to the last thread about 300.

Obelics ,What happened to your "Waste land" AAR? It was really cool ,Amazing and entertaining. if you finish it ,then hopefully Holywood would make a movie with it ,and I'm sure it would beat 300 ;)

I bought the hype and spent some bucks to watch 300 last week.

Gotta say it was crap.

Can't blame people got upset.

I do not think the movie 300 was crap at all, and trust me if you ask my friends im the first one to jump out and say thats bull and not historically correct, not just for 300 but any film. I read the book Gates of Fire even wrote a term paper about Leonidas and Thermopylae. Yet I think everyone is over analyzing the movie, it is meant to be entertainment not a history lesson, though it does anger many people such as myself and many others on this board because many ignorant people take it as a history lesson. I don't really care about Iran and their movie they will probably have the same bias as 300, and if they don't good for them. Yet I dont know why Iran who claim to be the ancestors of the Persian would want to put such a spotlight on such a huge defeat for them. Not a story id like to talk about if I was from Iran... lol.

Uh... in the case you forgot the Persians won Thermopylai. And already owned half Greece by that point...

You might want to think about what you just said. In military terms yes it was a victory, but in morale terms in was a huge loss. And they controlled the northern half of Greece, not the southern more prosperous area which was considered Greece at that point the northern edges weren't considered Greek by Greeks until Alexander's era. Thermopylae was to the Greeks what the Alamo was to Texas, a loss, but a morale victory and a victory that in turn led to the defeat of the opposition. Sorry if I was Iranian I wouldn't like talking about Thermopylae.

Actually, by making a stand at Thermopylae instead of successfully holding the pass at Tempe, they effectively left Thessaly out to dry, which was always a part of Greece proper instead of Makedonia (though it naturally gravitated towards it at a later date, at around the fall of the Athenian colonies in the Chaldician peninsula).

Well they couldn't muster a force large enough to successfully hold Tempe if I remember correctly. Yet 300 (lol) + around 1700 troops were enough to hold Thermopylae. Im pretty sure as well even if Thessaly was considered Greek they were looked down upon by southern Greeks as being some sort of barbarian. Still lets not forget the point of my previous point, the second invasion of Greece by Persia was yet again a failure. And yet again at Platea it only took some 20-30k Greeks (Yes there was many times that present but only Sparta and Athens committed to battle) to rout some 100-200k Persians. Greece proved their superiority at every battle fought between Persians and Greeks. Now don't think im some sort of Greek lover because I am of Norweigen decent and my people have not had any relation to either except the Varagian Guard :viking:

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Originally Posted by CrownOfSwords

I do not think the movie 300 was crap at all, and trust me if you ask my friends im the first one to jump out and say thats bull and not historically correct,

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Forget about history as a pure film it was crap.

Are any of the Persians look remotely like humans ? Is Ephialtes human ? Does he remind you of someone ? It's just a cheap rip off of lord of the rings who itself aien't very good.

"we'll fight in the shades", fair enough. Then when the persian arrows pours down, the guy literally said again "remember I said we'll fight in the shades, haha" yeah HAHA funny, please stop insulting my intelligence.

Crap like that just too numerous to name. A persian general gets his head cut off (yet again !!!) and his head flys in the sky. WTF the purpose does that serve ? Other than an extreme low class retarded eye-candy ? I don't want to talk about all these crap any more.

As a historical film it's just 10 times more rubbish. Free Greeks, Freedom Fighters, Kind Spartans, Cruel Persians, oh my god please stop.

And I bet nobody's going to spent big bucks to make a film about this same event in 10 years. That's why you don't make absolute crap, it kills the chance for people who actually have a clue to make the same thing.

Yea I was pretty pissed off to hear they were making 300 instead of Gates of Fire. No most of the Persians you see are robed and their faces covered. Sorry to hear you didn't appreciate the movie at all, I generally liked it. Though it wouldve been 10x if the Spartans simply wore breastplates!! I mean c'mon now thats just pure stupidity. Also I think if all the deformities were cut out it wouldve been alot better that was just nonsense. Whatever if you didn't like it go pick up a copy of Gates of Fire if you havent read it already. I promise you will love the book.

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Originally Posted by CrownOfSwords

Greece proved their superiority at every battle fought between Persians and Greeks

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Completely rubbish statement. Darius The Great won each and every battle against the Greeks through Artaphernes, until the battle of Marathon. Prior to Darius, Cambyses had defeated Saitic Egypt who mustered a respectable force of Greek mercenaries, and prior to that, Cyrus The Great had defeated the Lydians. Even prior to the coming of the Persian Empire, the Medeans and Lydians fought each other to the degree of a stalemate which culminated at the battle of Halys. No one here claims that Greeks were poor warriors, on the contrary, they were some of the best infantry money could buy, but to presume that they were automatically superior to anything the Persians mustered is to look at things in a very Vanilla'esque manner.The Persian army, considering her merits, was built for versatility.

The reason why Miltiades won at Marathon was not just because he ordered the Athenian hoplites to run towards the Persian column to diminish the effect of archery, but he also striked at the right moment, when the Persians had disembarked on a bog and were largely disabled from disembarking cavalry.

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Originally Posted by 140

Forget about history as a pure film it was crap.

Are any of the Persians look remotely like humans ? Is Ephialtes human ? Does he remind you of someone ? It's just a cheap rip off of lord of the rings who itself aien't very good.

"we'll fight in the shades", fair enough. Then when the persian arrows pours down, the guy literally said again "remember I said we'll fight in the shades, haha" yeah HAHA funny, please stop insulting my intelligence.

Crap like that just too numerous to name. A persian general gets his head cut off (yet again !!!) and his head flys in the sky. WTF the purpose does that serve ? Other than an extreme low class retarded eye-candy ? I don't want to talk about all these crap any more.

As a historical film it's just 10 times more rubbish. Free Greeks, Freedom Fighters, Kind Spartans, Cruel Persians, oh my god please stop.

And I bet nobody's going to spent big bucks to make a film about this same event in 10 years. That's why you don't make absolute crap, it kills the chance for people who actually have a clue to make the same thing.

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Finally someone who understands how god-awful the movie was even by itself. Like I said, a movie with a script this bad:The men in the back said "FOOOOOOOWAAAAARRRRDDDDDd!!!!111!!!OMGZLOLZSLAVERY!!!!!" Whilst them men in front said "OOOOFFFFAAHHGOOSHSHSHHSPURTZILLA!!!!!!!!!ROFLROXXORSOPRESSION!!!11" shouldn't be considered for its historical or political aspects only. Its got guys in loincloths walking in slow-mo to rock music for Christ sake! It would've been crap historically setting or not!

@Kambitz
ah regarding the aar, im very busy a this time, cant even play the game (i made a further installement, but it is incomplete anyway), but im here from time to time to read stuff... thanks!

PS regarding the movie, ive seen it, it is ok only as a below-average MTV video...(ive already forgot it), i really fear the actual trend for movies is the music videos, what a shame... reading movies related comments on the internet i always read the sentence: "it is too damned slow!!!!" as a comment to an old classic, it seems everyone wants movies fast like cartoons or music video... pheraphs it's me that is older... (not enough anyway, im around 30 :laugh4: )

salute!

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Originally Posted by Obelics

i really fear the actual trend for movies is the music videos, what a shame... reading movies related comments on the internet i always read the sentence: "it is too damned slow!!!!" as a comment to an old classic, it seems everyone wants movies fast like cartoons or music video...

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Philistines ! :rtwno:

About the armor. Did spartans have to buy their own armor, or did their government give it to them. The reason I say this is because most other greeks could only afford a shield, helmet, and maybe greeves.

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Originally Posted by Artorius Rex

About the armor. Did spartans have to buy their own armor, or did their government give it to them. The reason I say this is because most other greeks could only afford a shield, helmet, and maybe greeves.

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The Spartan hoplites had to buy their own gear. However ,the Spartan hoplites were usually property owning men from the middle and upper classes of society, so they could afford some gear. Sources mention superior armor on the part of the Spartans, though the armaments were not equal and standardized. The fact that Spartans had longer spears was crucial especially in phalanx formation in a small pass...

That's why the Marian reforms were so revolutionary in Rome. He opened up the army for the classes who's didn't own property by giving them arms sponsored by the state. He also standardized equipment and training.