I don't recall claiming that. I do recall observing that the tone of the accounts you quoted was about as neutral and objective as Nazi war propaganda over the character of American society though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Printable View
I don't recall claiming that. I do recall observing that the tone of the accounts you quoted was about as neutral and objective as Nazi war propaganda over the character of American society though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Do I really need to dig up the ugly record of strife between Christians of different takes on the content of the faith before you realize this isn't exactly unusual or limited to Muslims ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
I didnt specify you as the one who said it. Sorry if that confused you, I dont care if the site is biased I care if it present the facts. Checking around IMO it does. I dont see any dispute other than from Tribesman. I again invite him to show that Mohamed did not do these things.
Might I humbly suggest you try the unbiased sources first in the future ? Might do a world of good for developing some perspective on things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
O RLY ? Seemed to me like you were trying to use that to evade the question I made concerning your silence over my rebuttals...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
You wont find any . The closest you may find are from Uni courses but even all those say he started a war with the Meccans. I cant get in to read the actual text of the course only a summary. Of course Muslim sites are biased but again the Hadiths and suras tell pretty much the same exact story.Quote:
Might I humbly suggest you try the unbiased sources first in the future ? Might do a world of good for developing some perspective on things.
Errrr...why not try some books by the scholars that the writer of that garbage site claims to have read:idea2:Quote:
You wont find any
hmmmm....pretty much the same exact .Quote:
but again the Hadiths and suras tell pretty much the same exact story.
is that like almost could if my house wasn't where it is ?:laugh4:
pretty much not the same exact .
Oh looky .....one word different and a completely different meaning , what funny things you can do with language a single word or even a letter can completely change something .. amazing isn't it .
The scope becomes even bigger when things are translated .
A simple exercise or you Gawain , no translation needed .
How many different words can you find that could be substituted for a simple word like "killed" ?
a simple word isn't it , what different meanings could alternative words have eh ?
hey how many different meanings can the word itself have , if a soccer player killed the ball is he a ravenous murderer ? has he commited infantricide ? did he kill a king ? has he stopped a conversation ?
its pretty much exactly the same isn't it :dizzy2:
For the last time stop playing your silly word games and come up with some translations that dispute mine. Then we can see if any of these simple words have been changed or are disputed.Quote:
How many different words can you find that could be substituted for a simple word like "killed" ?
It seems your always giving me exercises but when I give one to you , you dont seem to be fit to perform it.Quote:
A simple exercise or you Gawain
Ive looked onlne but cant find them and Im not about to go sign up to library to go check them out. Why dont you and prove me and her wrong? You always want other to do the work.Quote:
Errrr...why not try some books by the scholars that the writer of that garbage site claims to have read
Tribes:
You've already questioned the authenticity/accuracy of Gawain's referenced material. There is clearly grounds for calling up such questions.
Gawain is not unreasonable in asking you to switch from interrogative (poking holes) to declarative (what you think to be a more reasonable position/translation/interpretation).
Even at that, the Koranic translations would be in question fro some, since (if I recall correctly) many devout Muslims would insist that any translation of the Koran is inappropriate and it must be read in Arabic.
Yep I mentioned that a while back , several times .Quote:
Even at that, the Koranic translations would be in question fro some, since (if I recall correctly) many devout Muslims would insist that any translation of the Koran is inappropriate and it must be read in Arabic.
Look just answer my old questions. Did Mohamed kill people and wage war . Do you think he is a model for others to follow? Thats not so hard is it? Cant you find one contrary postition. I wont question its source :laugh4:
which questions ? you have contradicted yourself so many times its hard to know where to start .Quote:
Look just answer my old questions.
lets start with this tripe...rigggghhht :dizzy2:Quote:
You just dont get it. Terrorist #1 Mohamed He set the standard for all who followed.
your source uses :daisy: like that , funny really , Khan focuses on 8 , makes a big deal of 8;12 . clearly instructions for torture and terrorism on unbelievers yeah :laugh4: instructions for cold blooded murder even:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: . you claim Mohammed set the standard , wasn't the standard for religeous slaughter and the splitting of spoils set in the OT, very specific about it isn't it , who shall be killed who shall be spared , how they shall be killed , hey is got everything , even instruction on what god lets you do to women you rape in war , well unless he told you to kill them after killing thir babies , as I don't think he allowed necrophilia and what you did to the women after that wouldn't really come into play would it?
A slight problem with Khans take , apart from the general :daisy: nature of his thought process , is that that section deals with those that have marched to war on you and abandoned their devotion to their own religeon(christian /Judaism).:2thumbsup:
Your not thatdense just stubborn it seems. I just asked you the same questions for at least the third time. Then you proceed to post this as an example of a question I asked?Quote:
which questions ? you have contradicted yourself so many times its hard to know where to start .
Is it any wonder its hard to debate you.Quote:
lets start with this tripe...
Quote:
You just dont get it. Terrorist #1 Mohamed He set the standard for all who followed.
Go for the last time and find a contradictory interpretaion.
All you can do is attack the source and in reality it isnt even the source. You wont even bother to go check that.
I think Gawain is arguing that:Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
The New Testament (wich trumps OT) it does not contain
A) conquest or violence done by its messengers
B) directives for believers to do so - on the contrary.
It hasn't stopped christians from doing so, however. Christian rulers required creative interpretation and interpolation to justify violence, in the name of the Lord of course.
For the Qu'ran, it's the other way around. It does contain descriptions of Muhammed attacking and killing people that are pretty much defenseless, and fragments of it encourage its followers to do so. Those who see the Qu'ran as a message of peace have arrived to that conclusion by creative interpretation or outright cherry-picking. Wich arguably makes notions of "limited war" for example harder to reconcile with Islam then it does with christianity.
Hey Gawain I already have I repeated it several times , I even bolded it , it is a source your "evidence" site claims to use , it is very very implicit in what it says , and despite your nonsense about...Quote:
Go for the last time and find a contradictory interpretaion.
in response to watchmansMight I humbly suggest you try the unbiased sources first in the future ?Quote:
You wont find any .
you will , what source could be more unbiased about Islam than a Jew who became an atheist and was a reknowned scholar on Islam and the east .
But of course since his views are competely contradictory to what you have written throughout this topic , you choose to pretend it hasn't been written :daisy: .
EDIT: I am getting tired of the personal attacks and the endless editing I am having to do. Stop it please. BG
:wall:Quote:
Hey Gawain I already have I repeated it several times , I even bolded it , it is a source your "evidence" site claims to use , it is very very implicit in what it says , and despite your nonsense about...
Go to that source and see what it says. How simple can I make it for you?
Yes it was your usual nonsense . I tell you Im willing to debate you and you start with the hundred questions instead of taking a position on something.Quote:
Oh BTW as you are on about questions , can you remember very far back ? is your memory able for that ? its isn'treally that far back , you might just manage it .
you asked for some questions to be put to you
simple questions that you might be able to understand
Id also like to thank Kralizec. He stated my position better than I did.
Errr .....seen the site you used , read it , the thing is that a source the writer of that site claims is a source for the material written on the site contradicts what is written on the site , if the original source contradicts what is written by a writer on a hate site then they are not using the source they claim , which makes them a liar doesn't it .Quote:
Go to that source and see what it says. How simple can I make it for you?
If someone is a liar then it is wise to believe very little (if anything) of what they say . Simple isn't it.
You asked for simple questions about Christian scripture .Quote:
Yes it was your usual nonsense . I tell you Im willing to debate you and you start with the hundred questions instead of taking a position on something.
I gave you simple questions about Christian scripture .
Didn't you like the questions ?:laugh4:
Yes , but the position Krazelic states is mainly wrong , if you agree with it you are mainly wrong .Quote:
Id also like to thank Kralizec. He stated my position better than I did.
Its quite simple , its dealt with way back on page 4 in response to Orbs use of one verse from the sermon on the mount ,. funny that isn't it , how using one line from a passage can appear to give a completely different meaning than what is contained in the whole passage , it works with the Bible as well as the Koran .
BTW I wrote mainly wrong because Krazelic wrote these wordsthat part is correct , the rest isn't .Quote:
The New Testament (wich trumps OT)
Oh Tribesman... Guess what? HE'S SCREWING WITH YOU!
End of thread.
Crossloper . I know , but he don't get very far since it is very easy to pick up on the faults in what he has written , and there are dozens of faults to choose from .
All I see is double speak. Your right because your intellectually superior is your usual argument. You just come right out and say it. Know one is better at twisting peoples words than you.
You have lame and vague answers to simple questions. You can never just come out and speak plain english. Come on lower your self down to where dumb old me can understand you.
Actually that happens all of the darn time, it's just not as physical of a riot as the one listed in the OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by English assassin
If anyone insults Darwin or even claims his work is invalid or should be held up to scrutiny then this inspires a religious zeal in the hearts of Darwin-promoters that is every bit as strong with the religious zeal described in the OP.
Nope , my arguement is that you don't know your scriptures , have gone off on an angle that fits your preconceptions rather than reality and have used very dubious sources to try and back up your preconceptions .Quote:
Your right because your intellectually superior is your usual argument.
Gawain your words speak for themselves, would you like to got through the topic and see what they say ?Quote:
Know one is better at twisting peoples words than you.
thats funny .:dizzy2:Quote:
You have lame and vague answers to simple questions. You can never just come out and speak plain english.
Says you.Ive seen nothing here to indicate you understand them other than your own twisted logic.Quote:
Nope , my arguement is that you don't know your scriptures , have gone off on an angle that fits your preconceptions rather than reality and have used very dubious sources to try and back up your preconceptions .
Yes lets got through them. It seems their open to interpretation. Mostly your own.Quote:
Gawain your words speak for themselves, would you like to got through the topic and see what they say ?
And true which is a shame considering your on of the smartest and certainly one of the cleverest people here. You should put it to better use. Your main thrust here has been because something can be done it has been. You say these things are either taken out of context or misinterpreted and when I ask you to show me an example you use one from somewhere else. You constantly obvuscate. I used these to show that Mohamed was warrior and had people killed. I asked you if you disputed that. You still havent even answered those simple questions. Your the king of the run around.Quote:
thats funny
It appears that this discussion has run its course and we are left with the cloying sentimentality of a mutual admiration thread.
No doubt we will have another opportunity to address these issues in the near future. (Be still, my beating heart).
:bow:
:closed: