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i was going to do my own tiered list but my world view is close enough to thisQuote:
Originally Posted by zack
major exceptions are:
1) sunbae and cape in opposite spots for me
2) cuth lower/into null for me
3) winston sliiiiiiiiiightly above. probaly swap his spot with cuth actually
4) newcomb a bit lower, probably paired in the slightly under null group with dobby/monstr
i like winston a bit on general vibes and on some of his poking about my slot. its light but i'm ok with it
i think cape's inclusion of winston as one of his strongest w reads without justification is another thing pinging me about cape. the csargo read already seems light but i feel like winston is a slot i think wolves would probably try to blithely push a bit in this game state, almost irrelevant of winston's actual alignmentbut especially if he's a villager. @Cape90 if you could expand on why winston is your next biggest w read after csargo that would be appreciated
cause i'm a loser--not particularly ordered within tiers:Quote:
Originally Posted by nebjiamn
hollowkatt
Sunbae
Sleep
zack
katze
Ladd
Winston Hughes
cuthillius
Raskolnikov
Csargo
roro__b
monstrbro
Newcomb
EnderWiggin
Cape90
Montmorency
Sup
@Cuthillius:
hm, can you expand on the ceiling part? i know you specifically said offhand but i still feel a bit weird about that entire line and your ISO only mentioning sleep one time prior to thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Cuthillius
👍 to the rest of the post tho
im calling you cuthalicious glglQuote:
Originally Posted by Cuthillius
Caught up.
- There's approximately zero chance I spend time writing a wall post about my thoughts on the Cuth/Monstr thing after already admitting that it was messed up on my end and retracting. You are legally allowed to wolf read me for not doing it. Nobody will stop you. I will silently judge you by thinking "lazy read" if you do though. Do you really want that? It sounds devastating.
- It seems the people with a lot of experience with Mont have them as a wolf so I guess I will as well. It also excites me that my pew pew read of Cape/Mont w/w could be the case still.
- I kinda think Ladd is a wolf but I will begrudgingly refrain from doing anything about it because the one thing I'm pretty good at concerning werewolf is understanding my place in a threadstate and I know barking up that tree with just get me scoffed at currently. I don't think his approach to me - notably saying I've been so non-committal that it's wolfy because I did it 6 years ago once - is reasonable. On either front. The "good read if it's an accurate representation" front and the "accurate representation of my play so far this game" front. I feel like I've been pretty open about my feelings on people and, quite frankly, feel like I'm one of the people that's been most straight forward about their reads and why they have them (outside of the cuth/monstr thing).
- I think both Newc and Zack are villagers getting pocketed by Ladd. I think the way they've handled this game day is in line with my feelings of villager them. Newcomb's post asking Katze about Cape/Sleep being the main reason there.
- I think Neb commenting about me leaving them off my villa list only to learn what their name was in this game was really funny. I'm curious on their thoughts on roro at the present because I feel like that's just kinda been a spot that's been glossed over mostly.
- I'm not really sure what to make of Ender's switch on me. I don't really know what the big deal is to admit an error? Seems pretty straightforward to me and villagy to just say oops and move on instead of spending a bunch of time trying to get bogged down in long wall posts explaining some read. I know HollowKatt has been pretty skeptical due to previous experiences of Ender crushing them or something so I guess that's gotten me a bit more concerned but I still think it's been fine posting. Kinda vibed with "i thought i was funny" even if it should be nai. But similar to mont, there's people with more experience with ender than i who find them wolfy so I'll tab that away for later.
- On a similar front, I have no idea why Zack is so hung up on my post saying I liked the role Visor came up with and thought it was hilarious. Me of all people will be thrilled to pew pew into someone, you know this. I think his handling of it is villagery, just ... incorrect.
- I'd be lying if I didn't say I've been getting an uneasy feeling about HK lately. Can't really place why. Something about the way they've just sounded confused about why people are wolf reading me, asking for explanations, getting none, and then just throwing me at the top of the list has me skeptical. Like a "shouldn't hk be a bit more hesitant with me" thing. With that said, I think I'm just in a weird place in the gamestate where I've been unable to really get reads on things outside of interactions with myself on a lot of people, and im notoriously easy to get turned around on things like this. Earlier in the day phase I thought HK was super towny for believing the things they said so I'm going to try and squash that unease for the rest of the day.
- Katze is cool. Dont really vibe with their newcomb wolf read (i kinda think Ladd spewed newcomb villa if wolf or has a really good read and called newcomb obvious villa if villa). Posting seems reasonable though.
- Idk, still kinda think Cape is a wolf but I'm trying to give my boy zack some credit on a strong villa read there and giving it some space. I don't mind letting it go for now.
- I should have a better read on Monstr but I don't. The selfish read is "calling me town because as a wolf I'd be burying someone" makes sense for their understanding of my game.
- I feel like Cs/Winston are people I should have a better idea on but they are pretty much in my null pile. Really liked the "wife stopped and said 'you're playing that game again aren't you'" post for humor but nothing alignment indicative for either afaik.
think I'm just gonna Vote: Monty for now
Cuthalicious definition make the players loco,Quote:
Originally Posted by katze
Votin' round me, townreads plainly in my photo.
Oh yeah, Sleep seems totally towny. Knew I forgot one
https://c.tenor.com/ULIsDYDTiNkAAAAM/sure-okay.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
I have a pretty good Rask read. In fact, I've found absolutely zero posts of theirs to be wolfy.
being intentional alt rather than just someone random from mu who sounds generally like that means could be better player than i might otherwise assume from general flavor feeling is allQuote:
Originally Posted by katze
does this mean i can get away with calling you mafia for the cuth/monstr thing or will i lose my coolness energyQuote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
If you can explain why it's more likely for me to be mafia for making a read, going to expand on it, and then saying nevermind before moving on to something else then I won't deduct cool points. I don't think you'll be very successful though.Quote:
Originally Posted by katze
I've definitely had thoughts along those lines fwiwQuote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
gotchaQuote:
Originally Posted by Cuthillius
my impression of that line was that it felt out of place to exist when you hadn't prior mentioned reads there but i don't think it's worth getting hung up on
tbf ive found 0 of them to be townie either :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
uhhQuote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
well actually i can
so!
...is there no spoiler boxes on this forum?
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
hopefully that covers it and i hope i can still be seen as cool by you
I cannot emphasize enough how hard it is for me to get my footing in a game where I am kind of the center of attention, so like I have almost zero confidence in any of my reads here - especially ones based on how someone has interacted with me. I think I just got really, really, really shook when Zack of all people (who I normally vibe really well with) just came at me out of the gate. I tried hard to just sit back and let other things develop and find things I thought were interesting, but well nothing really developed and the focus got more and more on me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomb
And that's not like, a bad thing or anything. It's just a spot I'm not really used to operating from out of the gates.
i didn't think the posts were as important to read as they might beQuote:
Originally Posted by katze
I will be one village read that the spoiler says peepee poopoo
If it does you have to town read me
i have never felt so called out before
So I figured a kinda stream of consciousness big post of the general headspace would maybe help people with where I'm at? Not sure if it did.Was worth trying though
You were merely adopted by the peepeepoopooQuote:
Originally Posted by katze
I was born into it
molded by it
my iso has as much sleep in it as i've had since the start of the game
these two things are very much connected
it did but you didn't say anything about me((Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
I get that. Would it help if I said that regardless of how much people are focusing on you right now, you're very unlikely to be the lynch toDay?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
I don't have a ton of thoughts on roro right now, sunbae
I've got them lumped in a pile with slight wolfy vibes from players but hardly anything that's locked in. i would like to see dobby come in and spit out a few more actually-indicative posts so i can really figure out where to slot them but as of now i'm just kind of leaving them there for my initial read on their opener and then some still-goofing-around-but-no-real-thoughts on their 2nd burst of posts. i think they mentioned cape a bit but not anything worth much IMHO
why are you specifically concerned with my thoughts on roro here?
i read it and since then have been kinda trying to formulate thoughts about ladd and have... not really had much success honestlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
this is to say that im hedging there mentally
i clicked the spoiler and immediately hated myself, fwiw
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebjiamn
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
https://i.imgur.com/SiQ48gG.pngQuote:
- I kinda think Ladd is a wolf but I will begrudgingly refrain from doing anything about it because the one thing I'm pretty good at concerning werewolf is understanding my place in a threadstate and I know barking up that tree with just get me scoffed at currently. I don't think his approach to me - notably saying I've been so non-committal that it's wolfy because I did it 6 years ago once - is reasonable. On either front. The "good read if it's an accurate representation" front and the "accurate representation of my play so far this game" front. I feel like I've been pretty open about my feelings on people and, quite frankly, feel like I'm one of the people that's been most straight forward about their reads and why they have them (outside of the cuth/monstr thing).
i knew what this was but did not regret it, fwiwQuote:
Originally Posted by katze
did we just beetlejuice ladd into existence i dont know what time it is in italy
ill click through 100 spoilers to get a hehe
another fatal flaw of MU is that annoying 'reveal all spoilers' bs
Org GOAT
I guess I should explicitly make this a question, so what's up with including rask here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
Like, including rask in a list with everyone I buy. Forgetting to include rask when doing a stream of consciousness "state of the game" post I buy. This halfway thing where rask is included in a specific group of 3 along with 2 other players both of which have posted a moderate amount is... odd?
I can't reeeeeally fit this to an obvious wolf mindset thing, like... w/w with rask? Nah I feel like he'd be even more aware than Joe Villager that his partner was currently 0 posting. Knows rask is v and too lazy to check since already knew alignment? Doesn't really seem that likely.
Still though I kind of want to know what's up with this post since it's odd in a way that demands a reason, like there has to be a reason the thought went there to put that name with those two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebjiamn
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
newc/sleep/rask/zack are all roughly in the same category in my mind reads
Cuth: current thoughts are "feel like I should be confident one way or another strictly off the 'i voted them strictly for their reads list' post and follow up but I'm not".
Neb: Wanted to know your thoughts on Dobby because you were the one who kicked off the game with stuff about dobby, I "shielded" dobby, and then someone (i think HK) invoked my shielding as something they wanted to do too and it kinda just spooked me so I wanted to see your thoughts 24 hrs later.
Newc: It does a little, thanks.
Ladd: This could have been us but then you voted/piled on me and now im just all turned around :shakehands:
Quote:
Originally Posted by katze
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebjiamn
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
this is cuth's subtle form of trolling rightQuote:
Originally Posted by Cuthillius
it wasnt subtle
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
The lack of appreciation for my lyrical masterpiece makes me sad.
I tried to follow up with something and couldn't come up with anything. You bested me in this lyrical battleQuote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
if you really want someone to read your posts, you have to bury the good shit under 10 spoilers
otherwise i just gloss over it and pretend to read it later when sunbae asks me
I'll take the blameQuote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
feel free to push for me if you want btw
i'll give you the advantage too
enderwiggin
i will win the lyrical battleQuote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I like Rask and I don't have strong feelings either way on Monstr/HK and Rask has zero posted, and thought "don't have a good read on" would equate to null for people. Felt like I didn't have to add Dobby/Ender/Capo, because it's not hard to fill in the blanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomb
Not gonna respond to your other stuff about me in this post, but I do want to clear this up since it's not a subjective interpretation thing, it's actually about the facts of my read: my read isn't that you're a scardy catwolf who'd be afraid to push me. I have no idea if you would or not. If you say you wouldn't then I have no particular reason to doubt you. My read is that you as a player would be in a position to know that I have read people town in the past for pushing on me. That you have just enough knowledge of me as a player - reputation, not actual experience - to think that it might be a viable path. I'm not saying anything in particular about your actual, real feelings, just how I imagine someone with a certain kind of knowledge might possibly decide to approach me. I'm not even saying that I know you well enough as a player to think that you *would* go for that strategy. Just that there are some players in this game who I would discount as people who might do that, either because they've never played with me, or played with me enough to know it wouldn't work particularly well.Quote:
Originally Posted by katze
I agree that w/w is not a very strong possibility. The timing of it, it would have to be either kind of a rogue crazy move or something where they were convinced cape was always going down, and that wallpost didn't really have that manic / vicious edge to it.Quote:
for the time being i'm pretty much entirely willing to discount w/w
i personally think it's very likely v on sleeps side, i think it's a particular kind of village nitpickiness and i personally don't really think it comes from the mindset of "a wolf who is trying to bury a villager"... i typed out a few reasons why but i realize that at this stage of the game i don't really think anyone would ever write a wallpost along the lines of "cape is 100% lack woalf and all of these small things are damning and never done by villagers, lmao"
still believe it's pretty likely to come from a villa tho, and if sleep does end up flipping mafia i'd assume one or two of his bros at the least were already under heat and the cape case was a way to divert it or keep himself out of the fire. or both.
so that leaves v/v or v(sleep)/w(cape). personally i don't think cape has been very villagery, partially due to meta reasons - it's something i don't really feel like pursuing strongly today though because i think cape is like, blindingly villagery as town after a few phases.
i don't really know what the ~threadstate~ would look like in any of these worlds, that's not really something i'm great at and i feel like the mafia roles aren't particularly important so it's not like mafia are obligated to like, hard defend their vig or something.
my current take is that it's v/v > v(sleep)/w(cape)>>>>>w(sleep)/v(cape)>>>>>>>>w/w
About that wallpost in general, though. I'm a bit mixed on it. I think the best thing you said about it was pointing out the stage of the game that it happened - because yeah, there's very little *reason* for a wolf to try to bury a villager like that, at that point. What it felt more to me like wasn't burying a villager so much as wanting to be townread. It's the kind of post I make as a wolf, but the thing is, I make it way later in the Day. I make it because I feel pressured by my thread position. I make it out of like, obligation. So the timing of it doesn't feel very wolfy at all.
Still though, I keep coming back to it because it pings me very strongly on the "pushing on things that look bad vs. pushing on things that actually make someone likely to flip wolf" scale.
@Winston Hughes how much of the thread had you read when you made this post?Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston Hughes
couple of zack's post overnight actually gave me the FEAR
1) calling cuth out for asking too many questions felt level 0
2) the monty push
i actually really liked some of cuth stuff overnight which is incredible cause i usually don't even get what they are saying
this was a real nice thoughtQuote:
Originally Posted by Cuthillius
I should just pretend to be a wolf every game.
For some reason I get more townread that way.
wow, a non-peepeepoopoo spoiler i regretted clickingQuote:
Originally Posted by katze
well done katze
I want to say that this is beautiful.Quote:
Originally Posted by katze
I'm kinda tired and meh rn. I'm gonna go play Gloomhaven for a while and then I'll come back and see if I can put my serious pants on for y'all.
katze,
i have played exactly 1 game with newcomb (tho I have read a bunch), idr have experience with them
i just think they are genuinely trying to solve the game
ladd what's even more incredible is that your ability to read and appreciate the points i'm making in my posts appears to be inversely correlated with my ability to write points that feel like they make sense to me
can you write a couple of sentences on who you'd lunch right now and whyQuote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
Cuth looked better pretty much every post they made after my initial post suspecting themQuote:
Originally Posted by Sleep
alrighty, understood wrt the clarification - i understand the not responding to suspicion thing even if it's mildly disappointing (although im kinda at a point where i'm aware that it's very unlikely either of us die today so it's probably strictly for the better but i'm still sketched bout a few things in any case)Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomb
anyway, we can just drop that entirely for now
so uh, the sleep post. i can kinda see it as "a wolf writing it specifically to look villagery" and it's a thought that's entered my mind, but i still think that most cases in which they feel pressured that early to write a post like that to look villagery that the thread consensus was already looking unfavorable for mafia, so i think that's something i'd want to revisit after some wolf flips as opposed to soon if that makes sense
credit goes to artsy of mafia universe i could never write anything so brilliantQuote:
Originally Posted by nebjiamn
ladd,Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
fair enough
You.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
Because of *Spins wheel* Prejudice. Wait no that's not right.
Because I feel like you haven't evaluated my slot at any point after you made your "Reading backwards is a wolf tell" read which is both not a read I believe is accurate and also a weak as fuck first read.
Monstr for the weak approach and being there in a meh capacity. Also the post about trying more as wolf pings badly on my "But if I was wolf I would" ping. (Yes, I do that as town. Shut up.)
Katze because I can't live with someone better than me at lyrical genius around.
I want to prelude that these reads are subject to change with revision and half of them are jokes.
i gotta have the highest omgus per push STATS on MUQuote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
but thanks anyway
i'd skimmed over the parts up to my first post, and had been following along since thenQuote:
Originally Posted by ladd
If you can't beat em, join em.Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
Vote: ladd
why does mafia make this post literally ever?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuthillius
I also like these two posts. Okay and this post too ;)
Not to mention they had these similar reads to me.
With all love and respect, please don’t take this as dismissive, but I’m going to need your thoughts on these posts rather than just links to them because that tells me nothing and you’re putting all the onus on me to understand your 2nd strongest wolf read when I’ve already put them in a slightly good pileQuote:
Originally Posted by Cape90
the quoted post is a reference to a different game so im dismissing "why would he write this as maf"Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape90
sunbae, can you explain what your thoughts on the cuth/monstr thing were even if you threw them away?
i felt better about this game when I went to sleep
ladd
newcomb
katze
HK
Cuth
cape
Sunbae
Benneh
Zack
i like this more probably tho i kinda feel the #d1alliancetier has a wolf
i don't really like sleep posts anymore, he kinda feels like a tryhard wolf who found an easy villager to bury and look villagery with
i'll be back for a pop in before EoD
#VC
im trying to figure out a way to word this in a way that isnt loaded but...Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd
is there any indication of this being a thought you had before newcomb posted it
i didnt even know newcomb posted itQuote:
Originally Posted by katze
i actually thought of it before going to sleep when he made that post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleep
its the exact same thing i say as a wolf when trying to bury a villager and i thought cape answer was fine
hopefully thats enough proof for you, officer
shrug
i cant exactly prove if you read a wallpost or not so fair enough and good night
i don't think sunbae handles my push like this if he is a wolf and knows i am a villager and right
mostly the whole warning his top villas that i may be a wolf pocketing them seems like genuine concern rather than something a wolf would ever think to do for show
and in general i got the impression starting from last night already that he was getting increasingly more frustrated with my push on him (feel free to correct me if i am wrong tho) and holding it back
his wall post seems fine too
I read a couple of monty games on this forums and he seems to have no problems posting as a wolf. can the orgers elaborate on why they think he is a wolf from his 3 posts?
sleep
Sup friendos.
late to the party but glad to be here tbh.
gonna read a bit.
In the meantime though, I am going to post IT crowd gifs and you will townread it
rask lock v
I'm really confused at how you went about this. The original read you posted was weird and didn't add up, and you dropped it without any real attempt at explanation afaict and said anyone still caring about is just being lazy. Saying "I messed up" doesn't clear anything up for me. What does that mean? i dont care about a wall, is it not something you can explain in a sentence or two? :dizzy2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
not sure why this such a big deal to you, i placed ladd at "barely above null" in a halfway through d1 reads list, which means ~nothing and idk how that is being "pocketed". I feel like I missed something with how confident you seem to be, is there more to it than not liking how he approached you?Quote:
- I kinda think Ladd is a wolf but I will begrudgingly refrain from doing anything about it because the one thing I'm pretty good at concerning werewolf is understanding my place in a threadstate and I know barking up that tree with just get me scoffed at currently. I don't think his approach to me - notably saying I've been so non-committal that it's wolfy because I did it 6 years ago once - is reasonable. On either front. The "good read if it's an accurate representation" front and the "accurate representation of my play so far this game" front. I feel like I've been pretty open about my feelings on people and, quite frankly, feel like I'm one of the people that's been most straight forward about their reads and why they have them (outside of the cuth/monstr thing).
- I think both Newc and Zack are villagers getting pocketed by Ladd. I think the way they've handled this game day is in line with my feelings of villager them. Newcomb's post asking Katze about Cape/Sleep being the main reason there.
My biggest problem with ladd is that his post(s) expressing concern/fear/whatever on me just seemed like kind of fake, but he hadn't done that yet as of this post.
Again... not sure what the deal is here. I explained it clearly, and "Zack is so hung up on my post saying I liked the role Visor came up with and thought it was hilarious" is pretty frustrating to read when that is not remotely what I said at all. I said that you saying you hadn't read the setup and making a post that essentially claimed VT seemed bizarrely out of character for you based on my experience, and felt performative.Quote:
- On a similar front, I have no idea why Zack is so hung up on my post saying I liked the role Visor came up with and thought it was hilarious. Me of all people will be thrilled to pew pew into someone, you know this. I think his handling of it is villagery, just ... incorrect.
Why are people so down on Cape? I mean I could be wrong and he could be a wolf, but it does seem to me like "pushing on things that look bad vs. pushing on things that actually make someone likely to flip wolf" as Newcomb said, idgi. :shrug: (though I dont want to put words in his mouth and am not sure what his actual read on Cape is; on that note, I agree with Newcomb in that Sleep's tunnel on Cape also makes me uneasy - think they've been cleared a bit too easily).Quote:
- Idk, still kinda think Cape is a wolf but I'm trying to give my boy zack some credit on a strong villa read there and giving it some space. I don't mind letting it go for now.
just for the record, this isn't an ironclad meta-read or anything, it's partly to see how he reacts / light a fire under his bum. (if ladd is a wolf he may have tmi'd monty town in #554 :curtain:)Quote:
think I'm just gonna Vote: Monty for now
more generally, v possible we are v/v and having a hard time communicating with each other
also this is somewhat tangential but i think newcomb is probably Just A Villager here