Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

was giving annika some space, but her continued treatment of me so far skeeves out. Weirdly, my biggest reservation is that she should realize that I'm never going over today given the threadstate, but ya know im pretty sure no one ACTUALLY thinks about that shit atp lol

taff and i -- i think -- have only played one game together? where we were w/w. But like, we didnt really *interact* in that game, so all yall talking about meta with her or w/e is beyond me, gonna take it on cred and deposite it in the bank (this is fraud). My personal read is "shrug dont really care". Dya is just getting into things, and I'm back and forth on them. Don't feel like elaborating rn, plus idt it matters?

Likewise, feel like I should have a better read on lissa rn but I really don't lol

ladd fits much better w/ nl/arctic/ender, since its an entire "premature but we ball v reads" section. Particularly with nl.

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Originally Posted by pzelda

Why? Are they a better D2 player? Who do you sheep on Annika or is it your independent read?

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His wall before dipping was enough for me to not want to go there today, I'm a sucker like that.

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Originally Posted by pzelda

Why was it towny? I found it nai.

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Bc while I was reading SoD he voted Annika at the exact point where I had the thought "huh that read on Happy is premature" and then he voted Stett at the time when I thought she'd explained well and looked townier

I just didn't know why he went for Stett there, so I asked
now that I've read the reason, it's quite compelling

Basically he's thinking about the game as it's happening and that's towny
Can he mimic it as a wolf? Probably but he hasn't bothered doing so in the last several games I've seen him wolf in.

And that's good enough for today, 13 others to choose from and all that!

Taffy (16)

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Originally Posted by Maple

was giving annika some space, but her continued treatment of me so far skeeves out. Weirdly, my biggest reservation is that she should realize that I'm never going over today given the threadstate, but ya know im pretty sure no one ACTUALLY thinks about that shit atp lol

taff and i -- i think -- have only played one game together? where we were w/w. But like, we didnt really *interact* in that game, so all yall talking about meta with her or w/e is beyond me, gonna take it on cred and deposite it in the bank (this is fraud). My personal read is "shrug dont really care". Dya is just getting into things, and I'm back and forth on them. Don't feel like elaborating rn, plus idt it matters?

Likewise, feel like I should have a better read on lissa rn but I really don't lol

ladd fits much better w/ nl/arctic/ender, since its an entire "premature but we ball v reads" section. Particularly with nl.

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Well there was also the hydra game with Neil, but you were a wolf there too so no you've never had to solve me

Gl Gl

(it's ok I have no read on you either atp)

Taffy (17)

I did have concerns wrt sunbae on the level of *vibes* and us not talking on a similar level to we have on past games, but that sort of thing could be accounted for w/ sunbae just not being into the game and not really being here for the game. I'm still processing if this could be a reflection on aligment, cause I had initially believed that that was all it was.,

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

Bc while I was reading SoD he voted Annika at the exact point where I had the thought "huh that read on Happy is premature" and then he voted Stett at the time when I thought she'd explained well and looked townier

I just didn't know why he went for Stett there, so I asked
now that I've read the reason, it's quite compelling

Basically he's thinking about the game as it's happening and that's towny
Can he mimic it as a wolf? Probably but he hasn't bothered doing so in the last several games I've seen him wolf in.

And that's good enough for today, 13 others to choose from and all that!

Taffy (16)

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The point about him thinking about the game is a good one. I just think it has started a little bit later?

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Originally Posted by pzelda

The point about him thinking about the game is a good one. I just think it has started a little bit later?

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It might have gotten more obvious later but that's not what my first impression was based on

Did you miss my question about where to find the explanation for your Sunbae read?

Taffy (18)

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

It might have gotten more obvious later but that's not what my first impression was based on

Did you miss my question about where to find the explanation for your Sunbae read?

Taffy (18)

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You can find it across posts over the past two or three pages. To sum it up.
My initial impression was town. When rereading I found them to be actually wolfier. No handing out to many townreads at first for example. Later posts made me less certain again. Then I saw Benneh's vote. That made me put them back in scum. AMD the last stretch of posts just screams wolf. They do random votes and instead of explaining them Sunbae got defensive and emotional. Plus two lists with no added value. That just doesn't feel like towny behaviour.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pzelda

You can find it across posts over the past two or three pages. To sum it up.
My initial impression was town. When rereading I found them to be actually wolfier. No handing out to many townreads at first for example. Later posts made me less certain again. Then I saw Benneh's vote. That made me put them back in scum. AMD the last stretch of posts just screams wolf. They do random votes and instead of explaining them Sunbae got defensive and emotional. Plus two lists with no added value. That just doesn't feel like towny behaviour.

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Thanks!

I also just got to your first readslist and we clearly had some very different reads there

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Originally Posted by pzelda

So, catching up.
p1: waza v, annika v, benneh (if nebijamm is benneh) might be v, but their activity seems little artificial, little bit like busy work I don't know who Stett is, v reads are basically for throwing v reads in early, visor and lissa not so towny so far
p2: lissa still not very towny imho, they're getting weird free town reads, I like sunbae's entrance - straight to business, probably v
p3 (and p4): friends chatting - I can't take a whole lot from that atm, taffy looks slightly w for their entrance and their lines of questioning stuff, there's some negativity, weird reasons for voting benneh and they were rooting out some of the early v leans of other players. All wolfy tbh, could be w/w with Maple for that bomb inventor comment.
p5: I skipped some long comments from waza, I should return to them and read them properly to see if they hold any water. Stett (didistetter, I understand now) can be villa lean for wanting to eat? The rest of that post is fairly weak and quite defensive tho. Pointing out fair enough probably nai but I also feel like taking that v lean back.
p6: Visor's not towny here, I kind of want to see townreads from him. Most of his stuff is negative. The single townread is ok and I think it makes annika quite likely town for a half-stupid reason. If Visor is wolf he probably is trying to pocket them. If he's town, his reads tended to be good.
p7: Also Annika not townreading Visor for that is a good look.

Villas - Annika, waza, sunbae
Villa leans - Benneh
Nulls - Ender, ladd
Negative vibes - Stett, Visor, Lissa, Maple
Wolf leans - taffy

vote: Totally not Taffy

Ok, I know I haven't provided any explanation for some of these, I might do it later or just answer any questions.

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Why'd you keep Happy (that's Waza) in your top town after p5?

Taffy (19)

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Originally Posted by annika

you seem townie on this page/next page

I’m curious why you feel so confidently about Maple eheh
unvote: Maple

also yeah I’m aware that could be a silly TR on Visor i guess

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I think I was too confident early - I got caught up in just wanting to believe the vibes.,but i still don't think she's a wolf. i just probably won't go out on a limb to defend her anymore

I've realized I would split my townreads into a top 4 of waza/pzelda/didistetter/lissa and a bottom 4 of maple/taffy/you/benneh with there possibly being a wolf in the latter

Tbh the day is solved for me. But that doesn't mean I should stop solving.
Ladd/Annika/Taffy/Arctic are people I want to look into next.
I'm leaving out Maple. He's active, so he might help to solve himself. If not, I might end up leaning towards w.

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

I'm just coming back to this and honestly like still don't like it. He was basically shading my approach while qualifying it with "Idk if I'm being uncharitable" (he was) and then when called out by me he was like "Yeah I knew it was uncharitable".

Like? If you know a read is uncharitable (and therefore probably not the most likely to have accuracy joined hand in hand in holy matrimony) why make the read? It basically throws unclear and useless information into the field of play.

Someone is gonna have to prybar me off this vote today unless I see something even worse.

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unless you think i would only know whether what i was posting was uncharitable as a wolf and then elect to post it anyway then i'm not sure why you're hung up on this, i'm well aware of how it would come across but it felt realistic to convey at that point that you are probably just going to be someone i can see myself shrug yeeting at any point unless you come across as distinctly unpartnered from a flipped wolf. i can't read you very well at all

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Originally Posted by Arctic

I think I was too confident early - I got caught up in just wanting to believe the vibes.,but i still don't think she's a wolf. i just probably won't go out on a limb to defend her anymore

I've realized I would split my townreads into a top 4 of waza/pzelda/didistetter/lissa and a bottom 4 of maple/taffy/you/benneh with there possibly being a wolf in the latter

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okay vote: Maple

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Originally Posted by Arctic

unless you think i would only know whether what i was posting was uncharitable as a wolf and then elect to post it anyway then i'm not sure why you're hung up on this, i'm well aware of how it would come across but it felt realistic to convey at that point that you are probably just going to be someone i can see myself shrug yeeting at any point unless you come across as distinctly unpartnered from a flipped wolf. i can't read you very well at all

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If it helps my first impression of Ender is town though obviously I'm still missing over half the game atp

Taffy (20)

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

Thanks!

I also just got to your first readslist and we clearly had some very different reads there



Why'd you keep Happy (that's Waza) in your top town after p5?

Taffy (19)

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Ok, it was early and overall activity was enough for me. They were moving the game forward. I think I'm more confident on v now. I think they're trying to be a town leader, to be easily recognizable by others as towns via their own solving and transparency. I think they forced some of their posts for that reason and it's why they're so confident with their reads. It just looks like that style of towing which is more about finding other towns and letting them find you than about having the best reads.

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Originally Posted by annika

okay vote: Maple

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I need more context for this vote. Have you up until now voted for Arctic? Why did this particular response convince you to change your mind?

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Originally Posted by annika

okay vote: Maple

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yeah no shot lol

you have no wolf reads?

I should give it a little bit more time and few more posts, but let's def put taffy in my town. They might be a little bit awkward sometimes, but they also explain their thoughts well and show interest in the game. I don't think Visor genuinely trying to solve is something you would think of as a wolf (unless someone used it in an older game).
Taffy update us on your Benneh take asap plz.

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Originally Posted by Maple

yeah no shot lol

you have no wolf reads?

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Running out of wolves and trying to stay consistent is difficult...

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Originally Posted by pzelda

You can find it across posts over the past two or three pages. To sum it up.
My initial impression was town. When rereading I found them to be actually wolfier. No handing out to many townreads at first for example. Later posts made me less certain again. Then I saw Benneh's vote. That made me put them back in scum. AMD the last stretch of posts just screams wolf. They do random votes and instead of explaining them Sunbae got defensive and emotional. Plus two lists with no added value. That just doesn't feel like towny behaviour.

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I feel like you view what sorts of things are towny and wolfy as though it's black and white. Why do you think his behaviour makes sense as wolf, even if it wasn't towny? I actually thought dropping those posts and peacing it out might trend towny because they feel some obligation to give a solve but not enough obligation to try and survive, which is something that a wolf might have here given that each member of the wolf team is more important to keep alive. I often wolfread Sunbae incorrectly a lot, so it gave me cold feet, especially because I think his callout on me makes sense. I don't really know what I was talking about with his Visor read, I guess I was just projecting that I wish he spoke about it more because I feel like my read there has been shut down so I inadvertently confbiased visor being in his poe but no other mentions of visor as wolfy. I don't really believe that anymore

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Originally Posted by annika

I still don’t thinm it’s Taffy
can I get your read on Maple? sorry if youve mentioned it somewhere, I’m on mobile
@Visor @pzelda you too

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I have read their post but not READ them so the answer is really that i have no read. Will see if i have time to give their iso a more meaningful skim

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Originally Posted by pzelda

I should give it a little bit more time and few more posts, but let's def put taffy in my town. They might be a little bit awkward sometimes, but they also explain their thoughts well and show interest in the game. I don't think Visor genuinely trying to solve is something you would think of as a wolf (unless someone used it in an older game).
Taffy update us on your Benneh take asap plz.

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Benneh is growing on me
I didn't agree with your early take that he would've been powerwolfing bc he didn't give me the impression of trying to control the narrative in the thread and also you can't powerwolf in a 50 postcap game when you're burning through your posts SoD like he was - you'd need them for EoD when the actual important votes get placed

Taffy (21)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pzelda

I need more context for this vote. Have you up until now voted for Arctic? Why did this particular response convince you to change your mind?

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I haven't voted for Arctic this game

Arctic seemed really confident Maple was town and I wanted to hear him out. then Arctic stopped doing that, and Maple is still the least townie slot in the game imo (besides the 0 poster) so I'm back to voting her

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Originally Posted by Maple

was giving annika some space, but her continued treatment of me so far skeeves out. Weirdly, my biggest reservation is that she should realize that I'm never going over today given the threadstate, but ya know im pretty sure no one ACTUALLY thinks about that shit atp lol

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this doesn't actually say anything; "Annika's continued treatment of me so far skeeves out" = "I don't like that Annika's pushing me" smh

Maple hasn't sunk her teeth into any of her reads yet. I'm seeing stuff like "I want to give Sunbae another day"/"I don't care to read Taffy right meow", which feel like cop outs kinda

and ftr I think it's valid to want to give Sunbae another day for her recent posting, but she's just saying "I don't want to vote her today" instead of outright townreading her for it which is like, again another instance of not really taking a hard stance

that could be a playstyle thing (not sure how she usually plays oop), HOWEVER

I specifically remember she talked about wanting to have more confidence in herself/her reads as a way of improving her town style and she... hasn't really (219)

all of these reasons could be wrong under specific circumstances. like maybe she's TRYING to be confident but she's still... Not. I'd personally understand this bc my confidence depends on game context rather than my own belief in my abilities. but together, it still rings ingenuine to me holistically

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

I feel like you view what sorts of things are towny and wolfy as though it's black and white. Why do you think his behaviour makes sense as wolf, even if it wasn't towny? I actually thought dropping those posts and peacing it out might trend towny because they feel some obligation to give a solve but not enough obligation to try and survive, which is something that a wolf might have here given that each member of the wolf team is more important to keep alive. I often wolfread Sunbae incorrectly a lot, so it gave me cold feet, especially because I think his callout on me makes sense. I don't really know what I was talking about with his Visor read, I guess I was just projecting that I wish he spoke about it more because I feel like my read there has been shut down so I inadvertently confbiased visor being in his poe but no other mentions of visor as wolfy. I don't really believe that anymore

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It makes sense as a wolf behaviour because it's a textbook wolf behaviour. Does it possibly make sense as town behaviour? I can't really see it. I can see him dropping a vote without explanation, but the rest of the posts after Dya pushed back only males sense as anti-spew in my eyes.
And what is mafia if not a black and white game? At least without a third faction

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Originally Posted by Maple

taff and i -- i think -- have only played one game together? where we were w/w. But like, we didnt really *interact* in that game, so all yall talking about meta with her or w/e is beyond me, gonna take it on cred and deposite it in the bank (this is fraud). My personal read is "shrug dont really care".

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like people brushed over this but seriously, WHY do you not care about reading Taffy when she's in your PoE and also the top wagon??

(this is shade but also a genuine question)

My thoughts on Ladd is that they either end up being an outted wolf or an obvious villager D2 or D3. My 2 cents.

Anyway... I don't know what I should be doing here because I don't really want to harp on about how I don't like the state of the game even though that's how I feel. You guys know each other better than I do and you are better players than me so I should just accept that a world where all of you guys are incorrectly pushing each other isn't that likely. But it's still just nagging at me, because if all my individual reads on the consensus POE players are correct, then I think that is the world we are living in. And I feel kind of powerless to prove it right now because people don't find my arguments convincing. I can't even blame you because hell, I don't really find them convincing either, I feel like a lot of it is intuition. And I don't think I went a very good way about expressing my suspicion on Visor. But that doesn't make him town, nor does it make my other reads wrong. The other reason I feel powerless to do much is because of the interpersonal dynamics here people are unwilling to vote out certain people on Day 1 (i.e. "give them a day"). But in truth, I'd happily vote out ladd today over anyone in the consensus PoE. I think his only saving grace is if Taffy is a wolf, but I don't really see it. That said, I might vote her anyway if nobody wants anything else - just for this reason. This will almost surely get me wolfread tomorrow, but I don't really know what choice I have if I'm just voting amongst people I think are town except to vote the one who I townread less than the others

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

Anyway... I don't know what I should be doing here because I don't really want to harp on about how I don't like the state of the game even though that's how I feel. You guys know each other better than I do and you are better players than me so I should just accept that a world where all of you guys are incorrectly pushing each other isn't that likely. But it's still just nagging at me, because if all my individual reads on the consensus POE players are correct, then I think that is the world we are living in. And I feel kind of powerless to prove it right now because people don't find my arguments convincing. I can't even blame you because hell, I don't really find them convincing either, I feel like a lot of it is intuition. And I don't think I went a very good way about expressing my suspicion on Visor. But that doesn't make him town, nor does it make my other reads wrong. The other reason I feel powerless to do much is because of the interpersonal dynamics here people are unwilling to vote out certain people on Day 1 (i.e. "give them a day"). But in truth, I'd happily vote out ladd today over anyone in the consensus PoE. I think his only saving grace is if Taffy is a wolf, but I don't really see it. That said, I might vote her anyway if nobody wants anything else - just for this reason. This will almost surely get me wolfread tomorrow, but I don't really know what choice I have if I'm just voting amongst people I think are town except to vote the one who I townread less than the others

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Explain why i am wolfy without saying u disagree with my reads

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Originally Posted by ladd

Explain why i am wolfy without saying u disagree with my reads

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It's not just that I disagree with your reads but rather you aren't willing to even so much as look in the direction of where I think wolves are

Also, I think dya is definitely town - the post where they say they wouldn't vote Sunbae on day 1 if he was a wolf felt extremely genuine to me. if you are a town and suspect someone you like sometimes you can't stop yourself from pushing there if you think it's best for the game. but as a wolf you can be much more liberal with your options on day 1. i wholeheartedly believe this is what's going on here even if i'm a fool to do so
@Sunbae if you do end up coming back, would you agree? If I told you me and dya are 2 villas, where would you look? You can still talk to me about Visor. I think you could be town

Talk to me about ladd arctic

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Originally Posted by Arctic

It's not just that I disagree with your reads but rather you aren't willing to even so much as look in the direction of where I think wolves are

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I looked at sunbae, the reasons for voting him seem incrediby silly for the most part. my own read is that he is slightly >rand to be v but I just flat out disagree with the reads on him so that makes me inclined to shield him


visor i could see being a wolf more than sunbae, i do think some of his switch of reads have been a bit opportunistic and i havent vibed with his posts in the second half as much as the first half - i wouldnt even rule out him being w/w with taffy. he is prolly out of my v reads tbh



idr who else u wolf read, think the third was me - i looked at ladd, pure iso, obvious villager, nice looking

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Originally Posted by annika

like people brushed over this but seriously, WHY do you not care about reading Taffy when she's in your PoE and also the top wagon??

(this is shade but also a genuine question)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

Anyway... I don't know what I should be doing here because I don't really want to harp on about how I don't like the state of the game even though that's how I feel. You guys know each other better than I do and you are better players than me so I should just accept that a world where all of you guys are incorrectly pushing each other isn't that likely. But it's still just nagging at me, because if all my individual reads on the consensus POE players are correct, then I think that is the world we are living in. And I feel kind of powerless to prove it right now because people don't find my arguments convincing. I can't even blame you because hell, I don't really find them convincing either, I feel like a lot of it is intuition. And I don't think I went a very good way about expressing my suspicion on Visor. But that doesn't make him town, nor does it make my other reads wrong. The other reason I feel powerless to do much is because of the interpersonal dynamics here people are unwilling to vote out certain people on Day 1 (i.e. "give them a day"). But in truth, I'd happily vote out ladd today over anyone in the consensus PoE. I think his only saving grace is if Taffy is a wolf, but I don't really see it. That said, I might vote her anyway if nobody wants anything else - just for this reason. This will almost surely get me wolfread tomorrow, but I don't really know what choice I have if I'm just voting amongst people I think are town except to vote the one who I townread less than the others

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Wait am I top wagon?

Because Ladd's post gave me the impression that I might have been but no longer was

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Originally Posted by ladd

We should go back to taffy

Imo

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@Gemma @nebjiamn can either of you give me a votecount :daisy:

Taffy (22)

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

Wait am I top wagon?

Because Ladd's post gave me the impression that I might have been but no longer was


@Gemma @nebjiamn can either of you give me a votecount :daisy:

Taffy (22)

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i think sunbae is top wagon but not 100% sure


also zelda is genuinely the clearest villager after benneh, he is never a wolf




i tend to agree dya doesnt pursues this line against sunbae as a wolf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

Also, I think dya is definitely town - the post where they say they wouldn't vote Sunbae on day 1 if he was a wolf felt extremely genuine to me. if you are a town and suspect someone you like sometimes you can't stop yourself from pushing there if you think it's best for the game. but as a wolf you can be much more liberal with your options on day 1. i wholeheartedly believe this is what's going on here even if i'm a fool to do so
@Sunbae if you do end up coming back, would you agree? If I told you me and dya are 2 villas, where would you look? You can still talk to me about Visor. I think you could be town

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You are contradicting yourself here Arctic

You say Dyachei is town for not wanting to vote Sunbae D1 even though you go on to explain that it's towny to vote out your friends if you think they're wolves but wolves can afford to be more liberal.

What is it you're actually trying to say?

Taffy (23)

I would kill either taffy or Annika over sunbae

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Originally Posted by pzelda

My thoughts on Ladd is that they either end up being an outted wolf or an obvious villager D2 or D3. My 2 cents.

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personally I think he's villagery, he might get more obvious on D2 or D3 idk lol but seems fine for now

I'm acknowledging he has the type of playstyle I get pocketed by, but... he still has good posts where he's like "we should vote Taffy" at the moment when Sunbae was getting pressured and towntelling. feels like he townread her but didn't outright say it (probably because he wasnt that confident) which rings townie imo (451). like I kinda got the sense he was thinking "no I really don't think this is the right direction" when he posted that

I think Taffy is town too tho, pending a reread ig LOL because I'm losing confidence in that read uhm. actually nvm I might rescind my TR on Taffy until I reread her

also weh I'm gonna need to save posts if there's no postcap lift at EoD, so I'll be back later

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladd

I looked at sunbae, the reasons for voting him seem incrediby silly for the most part. my own read is that he is slightly >rand to be v but I just flat out disagree with the reads on him so that makes me inclined to shield him


visor i could see being a wolf more than sunbae, i do think some of his switch of reads have been a bit opportunistic and i havent vibed with his posts in the second half as much as the first half - i wouldnt even rule out him being w/w with taffy. he is prolly out of my v reads tbh



idr who else u wolf read, think the third was me - i looked at ladd, pure iso, obvious villager, nice looking

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Et tu, ladd?

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Originally Posted by Visor

I would kill either taffy or Annika over sunbae

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v/v/v

what do you think of Maple?

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Originally Posted by Visor

Talk to me about ladd arctic

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i don't really have anything else to say

i think other players have been townier and i disagree with his reads

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

You are contradicting yourself here Arctic

You say Dyachei is town for not wanting to vote Sunbae D1 even though you go on to explain that it's towny to vote out your friends if you think they're wolves but wolves can afford to be more liberal.

What is it you're actually trying to say?

Taffy (23)

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there is not a contradiction here, i'm saying as a wolf you can choose to make up a wolfread on a different villager or push an existing villager wagon. but dya basically started the sunbae train. with what they're saying, i fully believe this wouldn't happen if they were a wolf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

You are contradicting yourself here Arctic

You say Dyachei is town for not wanting to vote Sunbae D1 even though you go on to explain that it's towny to vote out your friends if you think they're wolves but wolves can afford to be more liberal.

What is it you're actually trying to say?

Taffy (23)

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idk maybe i am tunneled but wolfy post chief

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Originally Posted by Visor

Et tu, ladd?

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https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2l...TiY8/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

i will prob move my vote to taffy shortly--i don't come out of this string of posts tring annika but she's given me enough content to wana parse through and let simmer a bit and see what happens this morning. also i'm a bit weirded out the wagon on annika actually took off -- which sucks cause i thnk i'm tring both of the players that joined me? problems for another version of me maybe

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hm.

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also yeah yeah waza's cap post was towny i'm dropping that push ig

i think there's exactly one wolf in ben/annika/ladd

i'm not really sure which lol

i don't buy into annika's methodology but i kinda see what waza means with potential lazy town.
ben like... sounds good, but has some micro stuff that just hits me strange. Like the way he keps hedging on me for weird reasons (like how i joined him on annika???? when i had been sussing annika??) that feel like forced paranoia
ladd would mostly just be if both benben and anni (and taffy) are town and wolf team is less front and center.


Maybe i'm stupid but i think arctic's been kinda obvitown so i rlly don't get the general shade towards him lol

vote: unvote

Quote:

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Originally Posted by annika

v/v/v

what do you think of Maple?

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They are posting a lot of theory stuff compared to solving which is probably villagery for them

They are just doing their thing, I'll look at em tomorrow but I don't really see much that interests me there either way

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladd

idk maybe i am tunneled but wolfy post chief

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No it's not.

Your turn again

Taffy (24)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maple

This's been on my mind recently, but I guess there's no better place to talk about this than an Org game! I've honestly felt like I've been in a bit of a rut for ww. It's like, I've had one good village game in the past year, and that's about it. Coming back to the game, I knew I would be a lot worse at it than I was before, but it's hard to get better again. Even in like Bean game I was very successful at being a mediator, bridging gaps between players, pointing out inconsistencies in peoples's reasonings and trying to conclude v/v fights reasonably. But when it came down to the wire Apoc (who i HATE grrrr) was right: i simply did not have enough threadpull (or confidence) to pull the trigger on what I beleived to be right (saving newcomb, and eliminating one of my EVIL girlfriends).

It seems most games that's the issues. I never have confidence in myself and my reads, and while I am able to fairly profiecently work with other people -- either helping other people form reads, or to crunch information in thread -- I either lack the confidence to close things out or I present myself wishy-washily and people don't trust me in the end (such as the case in the Tarot game lylo).

Conversly, I get back into wolfing, and it's easier than ever! I've randed wolf a lot of times this year, and basically every single time I just wash the village in a different stupid way (other than the hydra game but that was hydras so it wasn't my fault). Like in the shots mash on d2 I put every single living wolf on a single line in my reads in the confirmed tier. Every single one! And people just don't punish me. I can lie so easily, convince people to go along with the most rediculous things, manipulate people INTO things and then 3 days later manipulate them OUT. I just don't get it! There's always been desparity between the quality of my v and w game, but the gulf at this point is immense.

So how do I get better at playing village? I cooperate, I mediate, I try to drive up the bar where I can. But I'm obviously missing something.

---

@Maple is this a pasta?

Taffy (25)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by didistetter

Maybe i'm stupid but i think arctic's been kinda obvitown so i rlly don't get the general shade towards him lol

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they def made villagery posts over the last couple of pages

dya is also a villager, feel pretty strongly about this one. good read, benneh

it's late and i gotta wake up early, so i'll prob follow a bit from phone but may disappear any moment

gl friendos

I'm not super sure on Arctic, but I dislike how they project frustration with the thread not mindmelding with their reads. That throws me off. I probably wouldn't vote them for that alone, tho. It might be genuine. They have some reads and if town they would like to change the thread state. If town Arctic should more focus on reads which are common with other players and start building their town tbh. I'm glad they at least seem to be open to discuss their reads? The thick formatting doesn't help tbh.
@Visor I guess you explained it earlier, but try to sell Taffy/Annika over Bae to the rest of us. Esp the former one. What do you think about their recent activity? Based on your post you don't find it towny. So, what's wrong with it in your eyes?

Annika, I admit, feels a little bit disconnected from the thread.

See the good news about not being confident at all in my reads rn:

if annika's a wolf she probs N1s dya
if ben's a wolf he probs N1s ladd
if ladd's a wolf he probs N1s benben

so no matter how it shakes out ol stetty gets to live to d2 and actually reeval a bit ~;p

for now

Vote: Totally not Taffy

if taffy is town annika is probs the n1k and there are 2 wolves in ben/ladd/lissa :3

Arctic, let me explain Visor and Ladd meta to you (It could have changed).
Visor tends to be a survivor and a late game player as both alignments. He usually isn't your obvious town and he's just a damn good wolf. If you managed to catch him, post-game credit to you. Most people townreads him for several reasons. Ofc most of us are lazy to really dig into him. Wolves tend to tr villa Visor because it's really frightening to go against him. But I don't think that many people are super good at reading or catching him.
Ladd can be an obvious town. He got killed N1 many times. So, I guess people can get little lazy here as well. His alignment usually became clear later on.

I'm just trying to give you something to work with if you're town. Feel free to ignore it, if you dislike meta.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

@Maple is this a pasta?

Taffy (25)

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unfortunately not lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by didistetter

See the good news about not being confident at all in my reads rn:

if annika's a wolf she probs N1s dya
if ben's a wolf he probs N1s ladd
if ladd's a wolf he probs N1s benben

so no matter how it shakes out ol stetty gets to live to d2 and actually reeval a bit ~;p

for now

Vote: Totally not Taffy

if taffy is town annika is probs the n1k and there are 2 wolves in ben/ladd/lissa :3

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No, this is wrong. It's wrong I find it towny. You're just wifoming yourself. Also, why did you pick taffy in the end?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maple

unfortunately not lol

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All my hugs (I have no advice worth giving)

I'm liking your post
Would you like to mason (tomorrow, bc it's getting late and I prefer trying to read as much as I can over trying to be active when I'm this tired)?

Taffy (26)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

All my hugs (I have no advice worth giving)

I'm liking your post
Would you like to mason (tomorrow, bc it's getting late and I prefer trying to read as much as I can over trying to be active when I'm this tired)?

Taffy (26)

---

*posts

Pzelda you gotta stop posting it's a 50 post cap

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pzelda

No, this is wrong. It's wrong I find it towny. You're just wifoming yourself. Also, why did you pick taffy in the end?

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Some of taffy's q's on his reentrace didn't feel solvy and more felt like.. Qs for the sake of Qs. (466467526) but also my gut kinda says "ehhhh i think he flips town lol." But i'm kinda w/ arctic in that threadstate feels slightly wrong and im struggling to square what that means for a team. Might mean the afk is a wolf, but that's weak sauce. Might mean wolves have good control or town is just struggling to find the solve/build unity rn.

Basically, i kiiiiiinda think taffy might flip town, but i'd be hard pressed to correctly ID and vote the wolf/wolves in ben/ladd/lissa, and voting there when maf NK N1 in most worlds seems massively suboptimal.

No it's not very fair of me to use the flip of someone i kinda think is v as a baromater to solve annika/ben/ladd. Yes i feel bad about it. No I don't have a strong wolfread i feel confident in pushing rn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

All my hugs (I have no advice worth giving)

I'm liking your post
Would you like to mason (tomorrow, bc it's getting late and I prefer trying to read as much as I can over trying to be active when I'm this tired)?

Taffy (26)

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@taffy the day ends in like two hours

er. oops. sorry I meant @Totally not Taffy

SORRY OTHER TAFFY

Quote:

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Originally Posted by annika

@taffy the day ends in like two hours

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Yes. At 2am, and I had 5 hours of sleep last night.

I want to try to stay up bc I'd like to move my vote somewhere I believe in
And as I said, I'm going to prioritise reading over interacting at this time

But if you'd like to sway me with a great scumcase I am eager to hear it

Taffy (27) I'm not counting the typo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

Yes. At 2am, and I had 5 hours of sleep last night.

I want to try to stay up bc I'd like to move my vote somewhere I believe in
And as I said, I'm going to prioritise reading over interacting at this time

But if you'd like to sway me with a great scumcase I am eager to hear it

Taffy (27) I'm not counting the typo

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oh no you should get some rest/focus on what you want! I was just worried you didnt know because you said you wanted to mason with Maple tomorrow, but ig you meant like D2 not IRL tomorrow

Quote:

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Originally Posted by annika

oh no you should get some rest/focus on what you want! I was just worried you didnt know because you said you wanted to mason with Maple tomorrow, but ig you meant like D2 not IRL tomorrow

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Yeah but if there's a chance I get yeeted today I want to be here lol
Who are you voting atm?

Taffy (28)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

Yeah but if there's a chance I get yeeted today I want to be here lol
Who are you voting atm?

Taffy (28)

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...your mason :D

I explained it in 503 and 505 if you wanna take a peek, her treatment of you was one of the things that bothered me

wbu?

Here's where I'm at:

I believe didistetter is a villager almost always because I follow the background train of thought that's happening between posts. The section of the game people were saying was erractic/awkward/stilted/whatever from didistetter were posts that were scattered but I could see how they came about. The point on my reread that I locked it in was the annika/maple being a difference check post. I could see how someone trying to piece things together would see the posts surrounding that and think “if a -> then b -> and if b then c -> oh its a difference check” even if those points don't really make a ton of sense or have to be accurate. I'm explaining this one a bit more because I've been asked about it. This is the type of read that I am almost always correct on but people never understand and that's because I'm bad at articulating it.

I believe Ladd is a villager based off of posting. The interaction with Waza, the pushing of Taffy, the comments about Ben (Neb). In the instance I'm wrong about Ladd then he's a wolf with both Waza and Ben BUT I don't think the way the day has shook out he is therefore I think he is always a villager.

I think Pzelda is always a villager based on posting and solving. Just pure. Not much else to it.

I think Lissa is a villager based on her relief, her return stint of posting, and the way everyone just wrote her off as a villager quickly. She is not posting like someone who had gotten a third consecutive wolf rand and her enjoyment is palpable. Additionally, I tend to think when people start calling someone threadspewed on day 1 they are almost always just town. So all of those things combined make me lock in V.


Those are my “there should be 0 wolves” tier.


The next tier are the “There should be one wolf in here but only one” tier. It consists of Neb (ben), Waza, and Dyachei. All three of them are pushing me for poo poo reasons (which is fine, I've pushed people for poo poo reasons before!) and sifting through which are having brain farts and which are opportunistic can be hard but I landed on dya being the opportunistic one. This is due to multiple factors:

1. I do not think the entire wolf teams plan would be to band together and do this. I considered it, but it just doesn't seem worth it very much? Additionally, the way they are building up each other (telling everyone to raise them in reads lists, clearing each other, etc) to pile on here when in that world they have at least 5 possible villa chops on the table for them seems nonsensical.

2. Outside of their stuff on me people seem to be town reading them. Ladd called Ben a 100% villager. Ladd said Waza will have 0 votes. Ladd has called Dya a villager. Pzelda has called Dya a villager. Lissa has called Ben a villager. Essentially, in order ofr them to be wolves together they'd have to be fooling everyone and I think that's less likely than it being mostly villagers who are wrong on me but in a way that makes the rest of the game find them villagery.

3. Individually and ignoring me I find that Ben is the towniest. I thought he was posing good questions, striking a good balance between attacking and defending people, adjusting reads, etc. He's also been called a strong villa read by others. Signs point to villa.

4. Waza seems to believe the case vs me. I personally thought the line of “high crime of not knowing the MU game schedule” was funny btw but nobody else did :(. I don't really agree with anything in the case at all at any level but that doesn't mean he doesn't believe it. And Im biased!

5. I find dyas “i wouldnt vote you as a wolf” nonsensical. I feel like that's the best time to vote me and a pile on target is pretty ideal in fact! Additionally, I feel like I am able to find dya pretty well in a lot of games we are v/v and it's just not happening here. Not just about me but in the ways they are approaching other slots as well. I briefly talked about it already (its not defensive pzelda its just thoughts!) but the way Dya interacted about Taffy didn't sit right to me. And the way Dya boosted Ben felt W/v to annika (as in wolf dya wanting v annika to focus on people that have a chance to die instead of v Ben because they are V targets). I also don't find “you OMGUS me” really in line with vDya because I think vDya would be like “oh hey, we're both here let's see if we can find each other”.

Now, I recognize that people have Dya V but I just feel they are wrong here and I'm going to trust myself! So that's why I think that group is where it's at.


Then you have the next tier which is “These are people that could be wolves but aren't with other people that could also be wolves”

Annika could be a wolf but is not a wolf if Dya or Maple or Waza or Ben are. Which given I think there's exactly one in Dya/Waza/Ben makes me lean Annika v.

Visor could be a wolf but I don't think is one if Arctic or Ender or Taffy are. The way Arctic shaded me for having Visor as a concern but not being worried about the thread not having Visor as a wolf isn't w/w imo as the biggest one.

Maple could be a wolf but isn't one with Annika


So that group of people I just want to give some space to and see how the next little bit shakes out because it'll be easier to sort later.

That leaves Arctic, Rask, Taffy, and Ender as my pool of candidates remaining. And add in Dya from earlier and that's where I'm at.

Now, Arctic asked me where I'd be if I was told Arctic/Dya were v/v. I would shift to Taffy and Ender today and then expect Maple to be another.

and now ive really overdone it

if i get got aint anything i could do about it. ive given reads, explained them, and broken down the entire game state from my pov. im not saying its right just "heres where my heads at" is all one can do and if it aint good enough then so be it


tata, im sticking my vote where it is cause its my best wolf read

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by annika

...your mason :D

I explained it in 503 and 505 if you wanna take a peek, her treatment of you was one of the things that bothered me

wbu?

---

Maple's posts give me the impression of someone who is purposely trying to bait investigatives and I think it's towny
We did wolf together in the previous game here if you want to go and look at it

You'll also understand then where Ladd's read (that Visor immediately jived with) comes from
I was suspected by Cape (not Capage) that game D1 for what he called "narrating what happened rather than saying why it's wolfy"
and he was correct that I was a wolf so it makes sense that now ppl think that's a wolf tell for me
when I personally believe it's just how I post when catching up
Lissa is also correct that scumreading and SPK early D1 is a thing I'd do as a wolf
bc it's fun and it often gets you townread so win/win
which was a surprising take bc I don't think Lissa and I have ever played together before

Anyway enough rambling
I'm currently voting Benneh but I'm going to move before EoD I just haven't decided where I want to go
I will self-preserve if I have to obviously but I'd like to find a scumread I believe in

Taffy (29)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunbae

Here's where I'm at:

I believe didistetter is a villager almost always because I follow the background train of thought that's happening between posts. The section of the game people were saying was erractic/awkward/stilted/whatever from didistetter were posts that were scattered but I could see how they came about. The point on my reread that I locked it in was the annika/maple being a difference check post. I could see how someone trying to piece things together would see the posts surrounding that and think “if a -> then b -> and if b then c -> oh its a difference check” even if those points don't really make a ton of sense or have to be accurate. I'm explaining this one a bit more because I've been asked about it. This is the type of read that I am almost always correct on but people never understand and that's because I'm bad at articulating it.
.

---

uh fwiw i completely made that up and had 0 read on maple at the time

Quote:

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Originally Posted by didistetter

uh fwiw i completely made that up and had 0 read on maple at the time

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oh i dont care about that, like it says they dont have to make sense or be accurate, i cared about the things happening that made you say it in the first place. the real sicko line is correctly figuring out a persons alignment when they are making shitpost reads and being right for the right reasons hehe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by annika

I haven't voted for Arctic this game

Arctic seemed really confident Maple was town and I wanted to hear him out. then Arctic stopped doing that, and Maple is still the least townie slot in the game imo (besides the 0 poster) so I'm back to voting her



this doesn't actually say anything; "Annika's continued treatment of me so far skeeves out" = "I don't like that Annika's pushing me" smh

Maple hasn't sunk her teeth into any of her reads yet. I'm seeing stuff like "I want to give Sunbae another day"/"I don't care to read Taffy right meow", which feel like cop outs kinda

and ftr I think it's valid to want to give Sunbae another day for her recent posting, but she's just saying "I don't want to vote her today" instead of outright townreading her for it which is like, again another instance of not really taking a hard stance

that could be a playstyle thing (not sure how she usually plays oop), HOWEVER

I specifically remember she talked about wanting to have more confidence in herself/her reads as a way of improving her town style and she... hasn't really (219)

all of these reasons could be wrong under specific circumstances. like maybe she's TRYING to be confident but she's still... Not. I'd personally understand this bc my confidence depends on game context rather than my own belief in my abilities. but together, it still rings ingenuine to me holistically

---

The things youre citing for your wolf read all occurred after your vote. Is this inherently a bad thing? Not really. While it's a "classic scum tell" over on the MafiaScum wiki, it's one I never put too much stock in. I love justifying reads post-hoc, ESPECIALLY when making reads for postgame cred. You do, however, seem entirely uncritical here, and that's more or less the problem. There are factual errors in your rationals here.

For example: the point that my wall on asking for advise is strange because nothing bad had happened in this game. However in the wall I more or less state that the introspection is largely triggered by a string of very successful wolf rands. Your initial point of me perhaps perspective slipping on my comments about my string of wolf rands.

Your point about me saying to give sunbae another day (explained by the central thrust of my distrust for them being tonal/the way they treat the game, which can perhaps be explains by a lack of engagement). Your point about my sheeping reads on taff and not particularly looking too deeply on it (explained by the fact that frankly I don't *need* to have a strong read on taff, and there's many people in the game who are better than me with strong convictions, so I don't mind sheeping those slots). As well as a point on me showing a lack of projected confidence (which I believe is factually incorrect in that I'm trying to inject confidence into my play here (unless I'm just utterly failing at that, in which cas e.

In aggregate it just reads like you're saying words. Again, in the wise words of tessepia: you are contradicting and counterarguing my posts without any degree of refutation to be seen.

Or in my own words: I am entirely unconvinced that you believe your push on me, especially given it is predicated upon pure PoE, only substantiated in any way after your own wagon began to really gain momentum. All that said, it should be incredibly obvious to you, at this moment, that I will not die today. If you wish to live, I strongly recommend you attempt to create a more viable counterwagon. Good luck.

https://i.imgur.com/ruwglb5.png

anyways i'm probs not allowing sunbae or arctic to die today. I think they're probs both towny and i kinda like sunbae's defeatism -> nah fuck you listen to me. Think the SLs on him are just recency bias b/c liveposting zones don't line up.

not sure what wagon comp is atm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunbae

https://i.imgur.com/ruwglb5.png

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fwiw i believe you that if you are a wolf you're wolf with benben

:p

i dont think ben is with ladd.

i think lissa could be with ladd MAYBE.

if ben's a wolf, it's with u

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by didistetter

fwiw i believe you that if you are a wolf you're wolf with benben

:p

i dont think ben is with ladd.

i think lissa could be with ladd MAYBE.

if ben's a wolf, it's with u

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i agree! its one of the reasons i soft cleared him hehehe

ben posting with that ENTHUSIASTIC FIRE he'd have if I were a wolf too

the deam team

yet deams aren't real sage

Sunbae's vibes are different from that one turbo where we all killed them d1 instantly therefore theyre a villager :hmmyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maple

Sunbae's vibes are different from that one turbo where we all killed them d1 instantly therefore theyre a villager :hmmyes:

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but if i get dunked d1 on this one i can say people didnt catch me in that one they just dunk me d1 all the time and i happened to be a wolf!

see, its win win no matter what happens nothing is ever my fault mwuahaha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by didistetter

anyways i'm probs not allowing sunbae or arctic to die today. I think they're probs both towny and i kinda like sunbae's defeatism -> nah fuck you listen to me. Think the SLs on him are just recency bias b/c liveposting zones don't line up.

not sure what wagon comp is atm.

---

side note i do wonder why my tone is being read so different to how i feel. like i wasnt defeatist earlier, wasnt defensive like pzelda said, was just speaking matter of factly about expectations vs what im doing. ive been having a good time

anyways, out out for real (wasnt sure id get this stint)

thoughts are in the big wall post, i hope its followable. confidence on the top tier is high, rest varies

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pzelda

Arctic, let me explain Visor and Ladd meta to you (It could have changed).
Visor tends to be a survivor and a late game player as both alignments. He usually isn't your obvious town and he's just a damn good wolf. If you managed to catch him, post-game credit to you. Most people townreads him for several reasons. Ofc most of us are lazy to really dig into him. Wolves tend to tr villa Visor because it's really frightening to go against him. But I don't think that many people are super good at reading or catching him.
Ladd can be an obvious town. He got killed N1 many times. So, I guess people can get little lazy here as well. His alignment usually became clear later on.

I'm just trying to give you something to work with if you're town. Feel free to ignore it, if you dislike meta.

---

I've played with both of them multiple times. My last two games here Visor was a wolf and got voted out on day 2, I think. I wolfread him there too. I'm not sure I remember what his town game looks like. But any argument adjacent to "if he was a wolf, you wouldn't be wolfreading him" isn't really compelling given these previous games. As for ladd, I know he tends to die early a lot as town. But if I townread other people more than him I'd still vote him. If he's town, it wouldn't make his reads any less valid

I have somewhat accepted that we will just make a low accountability elim, probably on Taffy, and that's fine with me now. I'm just not optimistic about it

Me waking up to thread to see Sunbae exitted 7 minutes ago is the true sadness.