Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

[Maple]

was giving annika some space, but her continued treatment of me so far skeeves out. Weirdly, my biggest reservation is that she should realize that I'm never going over today given the threadstate, but ya know im pretty sure no one ACTUALLY thinks about that shit atp lol

taff and i -- i think -- have only played one game together? where we were w/w. But like, we didnt really *interact* in that game, so all yall talking about meta with her or w/e is beyond me, gonna take it on cred and deposite it in the bank (this is fraud). My personal read is "shrug dont really care". Dya is just getting into things, and I'm back and forth on them. Don't feel like elaborating rn, plus idt it matters?

Likewise, feel like I should have a better read on lissa rn but I really don't lol

ladd fits much better w/ nl/arctic/ender, since its an entire "premature but we ball v reads" section. Particularly with nl.

[Maple]

Why? Are they a better D2 player? Who do you sheep on Annika or is it your independent read?

His wall before dipping was enough for me to not want to go there today, I'm a sucker like that.

[Totally not Taffy]

Why was it towny? I found it nai.

Bc while I was reading SoD he voted Annika at the exact point where I had the thought "huh that read on Happy is premature" and then he voted Stett at the time when I thought she'd explained well and looked townier

I just didn't know why he went for Stett there, so I asked
now that I've read the reason, it's quite compelling

Basically he's thinking about the game as it's happening and that's towny
Can he mimic it as a wolf? Probably but he hasn't bothered doing so in the last several games I've seen him wolf in.

And that's good enough for today, 13 others to choose from and all that!

Taffy (16)

[Totally not Taffy]

was giving annika some space, but her continued treatment of me so far skeeves out. Weirdly, my biggest reservation is that she should realize that I'm never going over today given the threadstate, but ya know im pretty sure no one ACTUALLY thinks about that shit atp lol

taff and i -- i think -- have only played one game together? where we were w/w. But like, we didnt really *interact* in that game, so all yall talking about meta with her or w/e is beyond me, gonna take it on cred and deposite it in the bank (this is fraud). My personal read is "shrug dont really care". Dya is just getting into things, and I'm back and forth on them. Don't feel like elaborating rn, plus idt it matters?

Likewise, feel like I should have a better read on lissa rn but I really don't lol

ladd fits much better w/ nl/arctic/ender, since its an entire "premature but we ball v reads" section. Particularly with nl.

Well there was also the hydra game with Neil, but you were a wolf there too so no you've never had to solve me

Gl Gl

(it's ok I have no read on you either atp)

Taffy (17)

[Maple]

I did have concerns wrt sunbae on the level of *vibes* and us not talking on a similar level to we have on past games, but that sort of thing could be accounted for w/ sunbae just not being into the game and not really being here for the game. I'm still processing if this could be a reflection on aligment, cause I had initially believed that that was all it was.,

[pzelda]

Bc while I was reading SoD he voted Annika at the exact point where I had the thought "huh that read on Happy is premature" and then he voted Stett at the time when I thought she'd explained well and looked townier

I just didn't know why he went for Stett there, so I asked
now that I've read the reason, it's quite compelling

Basically he's thinking about the game as it's happening and that's towny
Can he mimic it as a wolf? Probably but he hasn't bothered doing so in the last several games I've seen him wolf in.

And that's good enough for today, 13 others to choose from and all that!

Taffy (16)

The point about him thinking about the game is a good one. I just think it has started a little bit later?

[Totally not Taffy]

The point about him thinking about the game is a good one. I just think it has started a little bit later?

It might have gotten more obvious later but that's not what my first impression was based on

Did you miss my question about where to find the explanation for your Sunbae read?

Taffy (18)

[pzelda]

It might have gotten more obvious later but that's not what my first impression was based on

Did you miss my question about where to find the explanation for your Sunbae read?

Taffy (18)

You can find it across posts over the past two or three pages. To sum it up.
My initial impression was town. When rereading I found them to be actually wolfier. No handing out to many townreads at first for example. Later posts made me less certain again. Then I saw Benneh's vote. That made me put them back in scum. AMD the last stretch of posts just screams wolf. They do random votes and instead of explaining them Sunbae got defensive and emotional. Plus two lists with no added value. That just doesn't feel like towny behaviour.

[Totally not Taffy]

You can find it across posts over the past two or three pages. To sum it up.
My initial impression was town. When rereading I found them to be actually wolfier. No handing out to many townreads at first for example. Later posts made me less certain again. Then I saw Benneh's vote. That made me put them back in scum. AMD the last stretch of posts just screams wolf. They do random votes and instead of explaining them Sunbae got defensive and emotional. Plus two lists with no added value. That just doesn't feel like towny behaviour.

Thanks!

I also just got to your first readslist and we clearly had some very different reads there

So, catching up.
p1: waza v, annika v, benneh (if nebijamm is benneh) might be v, but their activity seems little artificial, little bit like busy work I don't know who Stett is, v reads are basically for throwing v reads in early, visor and lissa not so towny so far
p2: lissa still not very towny imho, they're getting weird free town reads, I like sunbae's entrance - straight to business, probably v
p3 (and p4): friends chatting - I can't take a whole lot from that atm, taffy looks slightly w for their entrance and their lines of questioning stuff, there's some negativity, weird reasons for voting benneh and they were rooting out some of the early v leans of other players. All wolfy tbh, could be w/w with Maple for that bomb inventor comment.
p5: I skipped some long comments from waza, I should return to them and read them properly to see if they hold any water. Stett (didistetter, I understand now) can be villa lean for wanting to eat? The rest of that post is fairly weak and quite defensive tho. Pointing out fair enough probably nai but I also feel like taking that v lean back.
p6: Visor's not towny here, I kind of want to see townreads from him. Most of his stuff is negative. The single townread is ok and I think it makes annika quite likely town for a half-stupid reason. If Visor is wolf he probably is trying to pocket them. If he's town, his reads tended to be good.
p7: Also Annika not townreading Visor for that is a good look.

Villas - Annika, waza, sunbae
Villa leans - Benneh
Nulls - Ender, ladd
Negative vibes - Stett, Visor, Lissa, Maple
Wolf leans - taffy

vote: Totally not Taffy

Ok, I know I haven't provided any explanation for some of these, I might do it later or just answer any questions.

Why'd you keep Happy (that's Waza) in your top town after p5?

Taffy (19)

[Arctic]

you seem townie on this page/next page

I’m curious why you feel so confidently about Maple eheh
unvote: Maple

also yeah I’m aware that could be a silly TR on Visor i guess

I think I was too confident early - I got caught up in just wanting to believe the vibes.,but i still don't think she's a wolf. i just probably won't go out on a limb to defend her anymore

I've realized I would split my townreads into a top 4 of waza/pzelda/didistetter/lissa and a bottom 4 of maple/taffy/you/benneh with there possibly being a wolf in the latter

[pzelda]

Tbh the day is solved for me. But that doesn't mean I should stop solving.
Ladd/Annika/Taffy/Arctic are people I want to look into next.
I'm leaving out Maple. He's active, so he might help to solve himself. If not, I might end up leaning towards w.

[Arctic]

I'm just coming back to this and honestly like still don't like it. He was basically shading my approach while qualifying it with "Idk if I'm being uncharitable" (he was) and then when called out by me he was like "Yeah I knew it was uncharitable".

Like? If you know a read is uncharitable (and therefore probably not the most likely to have accuracy joined hand in hand in holy matrimony) why make the read? It basically throws unclear and useless information into the field of play.

Someone is gonna have to prybar me off this vote today unless I see something even worse.

unless you think i would only know whether what i was posting was uncharitable as a wolf and then elect to post it anyway then i'm not sure why you're hung up on this, i'm well aware of how it would come across but it felt realistic to convey at that point that you are probably just going to be someone i can see myself shrug yeeting at any point unless you come across as distinctly unpartnered from a flipped wolf. i can't read you very well at all

[annika]

I think I was too confident early - I got caught up in just wanting to believe the vibes.,but i still don't think she's a wolf. i just probably won't go out on a limb to defend her anymore

I've realized I would split my townreads into a top 4 of waza/pzelda/didistetter/lissa and a bottom 4 of maple/taffy/you/benneh with there possibly being a wolf in the latter

okay vote: Maple

[Totally not Taffy]

unless you think i would only know whether what i was posting was uncharitable as a wolf and then elect to post it anyway then i'm not sure why you're hung up on this, i'm well aware of how it would come across but it felt realistic to convey at that point that you are probably just going to be someone i can see myself shrug yeeting at any point unless you come across as distinctly unpartnered from a flipped wolf. i can't read you very well at all

If it helps my first impression of Ender is town though obviously I'm still missing over half the game atp

Taffy (20)

[pzelda]

Thanks!

I also just got to your first readslist and we clearly had some very different reads there



Why'd you keep Happy (that's Waza) in your top town after p5?

Taffy (19)

Ok, it was early and overall activity was enough for me. They were moving the game forward. I think I'm more confident on v now. I think they're trying to be a town leader, to be easily recognizable by others as towns via their own solving and transparency. I think they forced some of their posts for that reason and it's why they're so confident with their reads. It just looks like that style of towing which is more about finding other towns and letting them find you than about having the best reads.

[pzelda]

okay vote: Maple

I need more context for this vote. Have you up until now voted for Arctic? Why did this particular response convince you to change your mind?

[Maple]

okay vote: Maple

yeah no shot lol

you have no wolf reads?

[pzelda]

I should give it a little bit more time and few more posts, but let's def put taffy in my town. They might be a little bit awkward sometimes, but they also explain their thoughts well and show interest in the game. I don't think Visor genuinely trying to solve is something you would think of as a wolf (unless someone used it in an older game).
Taffy update us on your Benneh take asap plz.

[pzelda]

yeah no shot lol

you have no wolf reads?

Running out of wolves and trying to stay consistent is difficult...

[Arctic]

You can find it across posts over the past two or three pages. To sum it up.
My initial impression was town. When rereading I found them to be actually wolfier. No handing out to many townreads at first for example. Later posts made me less certain again. Then I saw Benneh's vote. That made me put them back in scum. AMD the last stretch of posts just screams wolf. They do random votes and instead of explaining them Sunbae got defensive and emotional. Plus two lists with no added value. That just doesn't feel like towny behaviour.

I feel like you view what sorts of things are towny and wolfy as though it's black and white. Why do you think his behaviour makes sense as wolf, even if it wasn't towny? I actually thought dropping those posts and peacing it out might trend towny because they feel some obligation to give a solve but not enough obligation to try and survive, which is something that a wolf might have here given that each member of the wolf team is more important to keep alive. I often wolfread Sunbae incorrectly a lot, so it gave me cold feet, especially because I think his callout on me makes sense. I don't really know what I was talking about with his Visor read, I guess I was just projecting that I wish he spoke about it more because I feel like my read there has been shut down so I inadvertently confbiased visor being in his poe but no other mentions of visor as wolfy. I don't really believe that anymore

[ladd]

I still don’t thinm it’s Taffy
can I get your read on Maple? sorry if youve mentioned it somewhere, I’m on mobile
@Visor @pzelda you too

I have read their post but not READ them so the answer is really that i have no read. Will see if i have time to give their iso a more meaningful skim

[Totally not Taffy]

I should give it a little bit more time and few more posts, but let's def put taffy in my town. They might be a little bit awkward sometimes, but they also explain their thoughts well and show interest in the game. I don't think Visor genuinely trying to solve is something you would think of as a wolf (unless someone used it in an older game).
Taffy update us on your Benneh take asap plz.

Benneh is growing on me
I didn't agree with your early take that he would've been powerwolfing bc he didn't give me the impression of trying to control the narrative in the thread and also you can't powerwolf in a 50 postcap game when you're burning through your posts SoD like he was - you'd need them for EoD when the actual important votes get placed

Taffy (21)

[annika]

I need more context for this vote. Have you up until now voted for Arctic? Why did this particular response convince you to change your mind?

I haven't voted for Arctic this game

Arctic seemed really confident Maple was town and I wanted to hear him out. then Arctic stopped doing that, and Maple is still the least townie slot in the game imo (besides the 0 poster) so I'm back to voting her

was giving annika some space, but her continued treatment of me so far skeeves out. Weirdly, my biggest reservation is that she should realize that I'm never going over today given the threadstate, but ya know im pretty sure no one ACTUALLY thinks about that shit atp lol

this doesn't actually say anything; "Annika's continued treatment of me so far skeeves out" = "I don't like that Annika's pushing me" smh

Maple hasn't sunk her teeth into any of her reads yet. I'm seeing stuff like "I want to give Sunbae another day"/"I don't care to read Taffy right meow", which feel like cop outs kinda

and ftr I think it's valid to want to give Sunbae another day for her recent posting, but she's just saying "I don't want to vote her today" instead of outright townreading her for it which is like, again another instance of not really taking a hard stance

that could be a playstyle thing (not sure how she usually plays oop), HOWEVER

I specifically remember she talked about wanting to have more confidence in herself/her reads as a way of improving her town style and she... hasn't really (219)

all of these reasons could be wrong under specific circumstances. like maybe she's TRYING to be confident but she's still... Not. I'd personally understand this bc my confidence depends on game context rather than my own belief in my abilities. but together, it still rings ingenuine to me holistically

[pzelda]

I feel like you view what sorts of things are towny and wolfy as though it's black and white. Why do you think his behaviour makes sense as wolf, even if it wasn't towny? I actually thought dropping those posts and peacing it out might trend towny because they feel some obligation to give a solve but not enough obligation to try and survive, which is something that a wolf might have here given that each member of the wolf team is more important to keep alive. I often wolfread Sunbae incorrectly a lot, so it gave me cold feet, especially because I think his callout on me makes sense. I don't really know what I was talking about with his Visor read, I guess I was just projecting that I wish he spoke about it more because I feel like my read there has been shut down so I inadvertently confbiased visor being in his poe but no other mentions of visor as wolfy. I don't really believe that anymore

It makes sense as a wolf behaviour because it's a textbook wolf behaviour. Does it possibly make sense as town behaviour? I can't really see it. I can see him dropping a vote without explanation, but the rest of the posts after Dya pushed back only males sense as anti-spew in my eyes.
And what is mafia if not a black and white game? At least without a third faction

[annika]

taff and i -- i think -- have only played one game together? where we were w/w. But like, we didnt really *interact* in that game, so all yall talking about meta with her or w/e is beyond me, gonna take it on cred and deposite it in the bank (this is fraud). My personal read is "shrug dont really care".

like people brushed over this but seriously, WHY do you not care about reading Taffy when she's in your PoE and also the top wagon??

(this is shade but also a genuine question)

[pzelda]

My thoughts on Ladd is that they either end up being an outted wolf or an obvious villager D2 or D3. My 2 cents.

[Arctic]

Anyway... I don't know what I should be doing here because I don't really want to harp on about how I don't like the state of the game even though that's how I feel. You guys know each other better than I do and you are better players than me so I should just accept that a world where all of you guys are incorrectly pushing each other isn't that likely. But it's still just nagging at me, because if all my individual reads on the consensus POE players are correct, then I think that is the world we are living in. And I feel kind of powerless to prove it right now because people don't find my arguments convincing. I can't even blame you because hell, I don't really find them convincing either, I feel like a lot of it is intuition. And I don't think I went a very good way about expressing my suspicion on Visor. But that doesn't make him town, nor does it make my other reads wrong. The other reason I feel powerless to do much is because of the interpersonal dynamics here people are unwilling to vote out certain people on Day 1 (i.e. "give them a day"). But in truth, I'd happily vote out ladd today over anyone in the consensus PoE. I think his only saving grace is if Taffy is a wolf, but I don't really see it. That said, I might vote her anyway if nobody wants anything else - just for this reason. This will almost surely get me wolfread tomorrow, but I don't really know what choice I have if I'm just voting amongst people I think are town except to vote the one who I townread less than the others

[ladd]

Anyway... I don't know what I should be doing here because I don't really want to harp on about how I don't like the state of the game even though that's how I feel. You guys know each other better than I do and you are better players than me so I should just accept that a world where all of you guys are incorrectly pushing each other isn't that likely. But it's still just nagging at me, because if all my individual reads on the consensus POE players are correct, then I think that is the world we are living in. And I feel kind of powerless to prove it right now because people don't find my arguments convincing. I can't even blame you because hell, I don't really find them convincing either, I feel like a lot of it is intuition. And I don't think I went a very good way about expressing my suspicion on Visor. But that doesn't make him town, nor does it make my other reads wrong. The other reason I feel powerless to do much is because of the interpersonal dynamics here people are unwilling to vote out certain people on Day 1 (i.e. "give them a day"). But in truth, I'd happily vote out ladd today over anyone in the consensus PoE. I think his only saving grace is if Taffy is a wolf, but I don't really see it. That said, I might vote her anyway if nobody wants anything else - just for this reason. This will almost surely get me wolfread tomorrow, but I don't really know what choice I have if I'm just voting amongst people I think are town except to vote the one who I townread less than the others

Explain why i am wolfy without saying u disagree with my reads

[Arctic]

Explain why i am wolfy without saying u disagree with my reads

It's not just that I disagree with your reads but rather you aren't willing to even so much as look in the direction of where I think wolves are

[Arctic]

Also, I think dya is definitely town - the post where they say they wouldn't vote Sunbae on day 1 if he was a wolf felt extremely genuine to me. if you are a town and suspect someone you like sometimes you can't stop yourself from pushing there if you think it's best for the game. but as a wolf you can be much more liberal with your options on day 1. i wholeheartedly believe this is what's going on here even if i'm a fool to do so
@Sunbae if you do end up coming back, would you agree? If I told you me and dya are 2 villas, where would you look? You can still talk to me about Visor. I think you could be town