Casual december game

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

A chainsaw defense is when a town votes/makes a case against a wolf and then another wolf votes/makes a case against that town. What I'm saying is that it looked to me like you were casing Renata because you're wolves with HK. It's obviously a weak read and based on preflipping HK, and it's now no longer valid anyway.

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What if I thought they were both woofs? What would it mean then?

If HK's town then Renata looks bad for no reason, if HK's a woof then Renata's EoD looks performative to me.

I feel the world where Renata has a nebulous woof read on Visor makes more sense now tbh, and their actions reflect that mindset imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

LADD ASSOCIATIONS

NB: I went beyond what I promised and included some people's interactions toward or about ladd. Highlighted text represents what ladd himself was doing/saying, to prevent confusion arising from my format


AMP

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#745: Amy's reads: uhhh cape and vulgard are probably my strongest townreads. visor and hk maybe a tier below, both mostly off vibes. dya i don't want to kill before i can get a solid read on them, ladd/pizza i kinda just don't want to kill d1 in general

#1161 ladd shooting off reads. Amy is scummy for her posts about Pizza.

#1193: ladd thinks Amy scummy for position on Logic D1, pairs her with Ender, unsure of pairing with Visor.

#1264: Amy's reads post (implicit conditionals on m-Ender): ladd is town and i think my reason for it is kinda stupid. i don't think w!ladd would have any reason to bus w!ender when there are a fair few other suspects with momentum today (e.g. hypothetical v!vulgard, e.g. myself), and in a w!ladd v!ender world i don't think ladd would want to tie my alignment so directly to ender's and risk undermining his wolfread on me when ender flips
"amy surely that isn't the sole thing you're townreading ladd on" idk i think his d1 was a villagery sort of incorrect. i honestly don't think i'm a very good ladd reader, the one other game i've actually played with him he snowed me hard

#1579: From large reads post: amy - refer to my big post+ their wall post feels like a wolf making a huge post to get people off them [...] if [Ender] is a wolf, always kill amy next

#1769: for amy my only fear is dya villa reading them, maybe i should respect dya's read more. but besides that i think they have been wolfy (tho not excessively so) and they fit like a glove in an ender!wolf world

#2112: i could write a poem about why ender and amy are wolves and wolves together

BOQUISE

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

First interactions in #430s about posting gifs

#1240: Boq decides to TR ladd and sheep onto Ender because of ladd's posting since #1160, specifically quoting the D1 summary.
also, if amy is a wolf it means i was awesome yesterday tbh

#1555: Ladd says "i can see this [...] kage also kinda fits with literally any team" in response to Boq finding one of Kage's posts scummy.

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
boq- has done even less than me eheh. but when he posts i agree with everything he says just dunno if its enough to really move him up

#1764: In humoring Visor's requesst to talk about something other than Visor/Ender: lettuce talk super briefly (cause i gotta go and i am already late lol) about dya and boq
imo dya was very villagery last couple of pages, i feel the renata/HK pushes are the "hipster" pushes dya makes as a villager where they think they latch onto something and go for it despite what everyone else thinks

#1767 completing the thought on Boq: boq idk
i am not the best boq reader. he has felt very chill this game and i havent really disagreed with anything he has said
i also think he defended a lot of people i think are villagers so that wins him points too
but clearly none of those things are impossible to fake as a wolf

#1769: kage feels like someone who is gonna die to the villagers regardless of alignment best i got is that he is not w/w with boq (probably)

#1804: Boq asks ladd what info an Ender ouster will offer

#1810: When Ender suggests a Ladd/Visor team: Ladd said he was leaning on Visor wolf tho

#1816: Boq asks ladd to read him and soon realizes ladd did, quoting the post.

#1832: TRs ladd for a post lamenting the non-casual nature of the game.

#1836: Says "Mmmmh" to a ladd post telling Ender that he is his top SR.

#1908: Boq examines ladd's possible motivations as scum, concluding that "I think by occam's razors, ladd is town tbh. It is way more similar to his modus operandi as town than scum tbh."

#1920: Leans list with ladd as lowest town. Ladd unpaired with both Visor and Ender.

CSARGO

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1166: Renata tells ladd how to clear multiquotes.
#1167: Csargo affirms Renata's answer.

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: renata/csargo both seem v villagery

#1579: From large reads post: leaning villa
csargo - similarish to renata but a bit less strong. good thoughts/solving

#1693: Visor @s Csargo for opinion on Taffy and ladd, Csargo responds in #1714.

#1714: I'll look at taffy and ladd again, my impression was they're both town. Feel like the stuff you said about taffy could easily be v stuff to me. Ladd was just feelies, felt good about their posting as they were catching up.

#1827: I think [Visor] more likely to be a woof than Taffy, maybe even ladd as well. [ @Csargo did you mean Visor scummier than ladd here?]

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Yeah, I thought it was possible. I had a lot of problems with Visor's play and talked about them in one of the posts responding to Visor.

WOG is Wrath of God i.e. modkill. Used to happen in almost every game due to inactivity.

Best I can do is 90% confidence that final team is within Boq/Csargo/Dya/Kage/Taffy.

Would usually vote dya or taffy today.

Taffy (3): Monty, Csargo, Ender
Dya (2): Vulgard, Renata
Monty(1): HK
Kage (1): Amy
HK (1): Kagemusha

EOD in 1 hour 50 minutes

Dyachei-Ladd interaction is very weak from both sides. (Meaning weak in terms of actual reads, not just lack of content.) Plus the contradiction pointed bout by Monty where Dyachei first townreads Ladd then later says they don't have a read on him. I think they're just a wolf.

Plus the thing from my perspective where Ladd points out Dyachei's random pushes on me and Holllowkatt (one wolf one villager? please?) look like their towny meta and I agree, they would. If they weren't so weak, and if Dyachei didn't push me only *after* I pointed out that they normally do.

If there's enough time I'll look at Taffy after I eat.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Fucking sanity check all my shit.

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I think Ladd is a very capable wolf so spewreading might not work well, but ok.

Ampharos: I think if Ladd was bussing/distancing from Ender it's unlikely Ampharos is also a wolf. Esp combined with #1174

Boq: I cannot make any conclusions here

Csargo: short, not sure that's indicative one way or another

Dyachei: yes you're right about the contradiction

HK: in hindsight, that was an insightful question about the N1, and maybe you wouldn't undermine a teammate like this when a town townreads them?

Kagemusha: #1771 maybe now w/w with Ender?

Monty: Ender's right in his reasoning for uncoupling you from Dyachei

Renata: I cannot make any conclusions here

Ender: #1506 looks bad, if you're misclearing someone it's Ender

Oh also, that stuff looks really good for Amy IMO.

Asks is going to have to forgive me for creating a tie as town again ~:)

Vote: Dyachei

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Csargo

HK where's your head at currently?

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you, boq, ender all seem to have your heads on straight. Dya I think is a wolf. Amy I think is non-existent and even if they are wolfing aren't making FX but I don't think they are (except for a secret read for now).

This post bothers the fuck out of me:

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Originally Posted by Renata

I'm not going to be here but somebody really needs to read Taffy in full. She's disappearing otherwise and that's not good. People are talking about her but nobody is doing real work.

I don't have any solid reads. Hollowkatt, Dyachei, Csargo (in that order) remain bottom of my PoE, but I haven't been able to keep up well and don't feel super informed. I don't remember anything Kage has done that feels solid town. Taffy has, but I liked Ladd's post in a vacuum too. I don't know about Monty at all and am just hoping that future flips might help there.

I did a post on Hollowkatt yesterday that needs looking at to see if it still holds up. I don't know if the obvious irritation over Monty's Boquise-HK pairing is meaningful, but I think the back-off after being called out on it might be. I also didn't like the way he projected that he hadn't been aware of Ladd's flip, by going through previous posts in strict chronological order. Bias speaking for sure but that felt artificial.

vote: Dyachei like I said, hope to be back before end of day.

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Yes they "acknowledge" bias but saying out loud "I don't like the way he projected that he hadn't been aware of Ladds flip" is batshit insane to me like how does Renata expect me to know things until I get there? Maybe it's dumb but that's an incredibly reachy take to have and one I don't see coming from town at all. They can get in the death bucket.

everyone else is some flavor of meh. chalk it up to recency bias if you want to but kill em all and let mod sort them out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

you, boq, ender all seem to have your heads on straight. Dya I think is a wolf. Amy I think is non-existent and even if they are wolfing aren't making FX but I don't think they are (except for a secret read for now).

This post bothers the fuck out of me:


Yes they "acknowledge" bias but saying out loud "I don't like the way he projected that he hadn't been aware of Ladds flip" is batshit insane to me like how does Renata expect me to know things until I get there? Maybe it's dumb but that's an incredibly reachy take to have and one I don't see coming from town at all. They can get in the death bucket.

everyone else is some flavor of meh. chalk it up to recency bias if you want to but kill em all and let mod sort them out.

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also I don't think monty is a wolf any more and I'm contemplating whether or not renata on dya is a bus or wolf v town.

I do think we desperately need a flip in the renata/dya/amy/kaga bucket though/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

I think Ladd is a very capable wolf so spewreading might not work well, but ok.

Ampharos: I think if Ladd was bussing/distancing from Ender it's unlikely Ampharos is also a wolf. Esp combined with #1174

Boq: I cannot make any conclusions here

Csargo: short, not sure that's indicative one way or another

Dyachei: yes you're right about the contradiction

HK: in hindsight, that was an insightful question about the N1, and maybe you wouldn't undermine a teammate like this when a town townreads them?

Kagemusha: #1771 maybe now w/w with Ender?

Monty: Ender's right in his reasoning for uncoupling you from Dyachei

Renata: I cannot make any conclusions here

Ender: #1506 looks bad, if you're misclearing someone it's Ender

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Bolded: I had to read fast trying to do dinner here. I don't know what Ladd had to do with that and I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

you, boq, ender all seem to have your heads on straight. Dya I think is a wolf. Amy I think is non-existent and even if they are wolfing aren't making FX but I don't think they are (except for a secret read for now).

This post bothers the fuck out of me:


Yes they "acknowledge" bias but saying out loud "I don't like the way he projected that he hadn't been aware of Ladds flip" is batshit insane to me like how does Renata expect me to know things until I get there? Maybe it's dumb but that's an incredibly reachy take to have and one I don't see coming from town at all. They can get in the death bucket.

everyone else is some flavor of meh. chalk it up to recency bias if you want to but kill em all and let mod sort them out.

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"Get in the death bucket" might be the most towny thing I've seen you say. It's real though. I read your posts and saw you got to Ladd's death only after responding to other things, then say something like "oh wow well lookie at that" and that's always going to read sus to me. Fake surprise. Like, you had seen Vulgard's posts at that point. Most people would scroll ahead to see who got got (if anyone) before continuing with commentary that might be irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Renata

Bolded: I had to read fast trying to do dinner here. I don't know what Ladd had to do with that and I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

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The entire post is a response to Monty's wallpost with all people's Ladd-related interactions. HK questioned Asks when Asks miscleared Ladd based on Spooge being the N1. So my point is it's unlikely that HK is a wolf because that would be a weird and unnecessary thing to do to your partner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

Sorry for coming back to this after others already have, but I, too, don't think this is necessarily valid for the same reason I didn't think Logic's main reason for scumreading Visor made sense - if you are good at reading someone and others in the game know this, you let your wolfmates push them while you yourself make the correct read imo.

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well, at this point it seems like a waste of time to discuss. You, monty and renata say that it is not valid. We will see who is right at post game on this matter tbh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

LADD ASSOCIATIONS

NB: I went beyond what I promised and included some people's interactions toward or about ladd. Highlighted text represents what ladd himself was doing/saying, to prevent confusion arising from my format


AMP

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#745: Amy's reads: uhhh cape and vulgard are probably my strongest townreads. visor and hk maybe a tier below, both mostly off vibes. dya i don't want to kill before i can get a solid read on them, ladd/pizza i kinda just don't want to kill d1 in general

#1161 ladd shooting off reads. Amy is scummy for her posts about Pizza.

#1193: ladd thinks Amy scummy for position on Logic D1, pairs her with Ender, unsure of pairing with Visor.

#1264: Amy's reads post (implicit conditionals on m-Ender): ladd is town and i think my reason for it is kinda stupid. i don't think w!ladd would have any reason to bus w!ender when there are a fair few other suspects with momentum today (e.g. hypothetical v!vulgard, e.g. myself), and in a w!ladd v!ender world i don't think ladd would want to tie my alignment so directly to ender's and risk undermining his wolfread on me when ender flips
"amy surely that isn't the sole thing you're townreading ladd on" idk i think his d1 was a villagery sort of incorrect. i honestly don't think i'm a very good ladd reader, the one other game i've actually played with him he snowed me hard

#1579: From large reads post: amy - refer to my big post+ their wall post feels like a wolf making a huge post to get people off them [...] if [Ender] is a wolf, always kill amy next

#1769: for amy my only fear is dya villa reading them, maybe i should respect dya's read more. but besides that i think they have been wolfy (tho not excessively so) and they fit like a glove in an ender!wolf world

#2112: i could write a poem about why ender and amy are wolves and wolves together

BOQUISE

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

First interactions in #430s about posting gifs

#1240: Boq decides to TR ladd and sheep onto Ender because of ladd's posting since #1160, specifically quoting the D1 summary.
also, if amy is a wolf it means i was awesome yesterday tbh

#1555: Ladd says "i can see this [...] kage also kinda fits with literally any team" in response to Boq finding one of Kage's posts scummy.

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
boq- has done even less than me eheh. but when he posts i agree with everything he says just dunno if its enough to really move him up

#1764: In humoring Visor's requesst to talk about something other than Visor/Ender: lettuce talk super briefly (cause i gotta go and i am already late lol) about dya and boq
imo dya was very villagery last couple of pages, i feel the renata/HK pushes are the "hipster" pushes dya makes as a villager where they think they latch onto something and go for it despite what everyone else thinks

#1767 completing the thought on Boq: boq idk
i am not the best boq reader. he has felt very chill this game and i havent really disagreed with anything he has said
i also think he defended a lot of people i think are villagers so that wins him points too
but clearly none of those things are impossible to fake as a wolf

#1769: kage feels like someone who is gonna die to the villagers regardless of alignment best i got is that he is not w/w with boq (probably)

#1804: Boq asks ladd what info an Ender ouster will offer

#1810: When Ender suggests a Ladd/Visor team: Ladd said he was leaning on Visor wolf tho

#1816: Boq asks ladd to read him and soon realizes ladd did, quoting the post.

#1832: TRs ladd for a post lamenting the non-casual nature of the game.

#1836: Says "Mmmmh" to a ladd post telling Ender that he is his top SR.

#1908: Boq examines ladd's possible motivations as scum, concluding that "I think by occam's razors, ladd is town tbh. It is way more similar to his modus operandi as town than scum tbh."

#1920: Leans list with ladd as lowest town. Ladd unpaired with both Visor and Ender.

CSARGO

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1166: Renata tells ladd how to clear multiquotes.
#1167: Csargo affirms Renata's answer.

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: renata/csargo both seem v villagery

#1579: From large reads post: leaning villa
csargo - similarish to renata but a bit less strong. good thoughts/solving

#1693: Visor @s Csargo for opinion on Taffy and ladd, Csargo responds in #1714.

#1714: I'll look at taffy and ladd again, my impression was they're both town. Feel like the stuff you said about taffy could easily be v stuff to me. Ladd was just feelies, felt good about their posting as they were catching up.

#1827: I think [Visor] more likely to be a woof than Taffy, maybe even ladd as well. [ @Csargo did you mean Visor scummier than ladd here?]

DYACHEI

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#730s: First interactions. Ladd makes his second appearance of D1 (see commentary) and dyachei immediately asks for ladd's read on themselves. [I don't like this.] Ladd responds concisely: "You seemed villagery enuf."

#1579: From large reads post: leaning villa
dya - i havent been too hot in reading dya lately but i think the way they are making reads at their own pace and the SNARK everytime anyone dares to shade or wolf read them is >>>rand villa

#1646: Visor asks dya for thoughts on ladd: ladd is lean villager so is taffy. I think the way taffy's approaching the game is decent. I find myself nodding along with his posts

#1690s: Asks Visor about his ladd case, doesn't like taffy's pop-in either. In response to Visor's wall-case responding to dya: yeah i think he hasn't spent enough time in the thread for me to get a good read on him

[ALERT: Contradiction!!!]

#1719 ladd defends dya from Visor SR: maybe if it was 2 years ago but their meta changed a ton

#1736: In response to Renata suggesting that Visor and dya commenting on Taffy is partners ginning up a counterwagon to Visor: villagery post (but i disagree on dya, they look villagery in the exchange imo)

#1764: In humoring Visor's requesst to talk about something other than Visor/Ender: lettuce talk super briefly (cause i gotta go and i am already late lol) about dya and boq
imo dya was very villagery last couple of pages, i feel the renata/HK pushes are the "hipster" pushes dya makes as a villager where they think they latch onto something and go for it despite what everyone else thinks

#1769: for amy my only fear is dya villa reading them, maybe i should respect dya's read more. but besides that i think they have been wolfy (tho not excessively so) and they fit like a glove in an ender!wolf world

HOLLOW (HK)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#944: HK asks Pizza why he thinks ladd is clear from killing spooge N1.

#996: if [Ender] a wolf at least one partner is in the Kage/Ladd/Dya bucket

#1161: HK's shade of Pizza is "villagery read for early game."

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
HK - push on pizza d1 was villagery, d2 posting seems fine. keeps going after players who he should know will bite back (pizza,dya) which is rand iyam

#1719 ladd defends HK from Visor SR: did you read the sorcerer game you hosted? i don't think he is posting differently from there (but i concede he may be a wolf)

KAGE

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1152: In his leans post, Kage has ladd as the only member of the "town leaning" bucket, specifically for his original case against Logic. However, he also finds ladd's entry - voting Logic out of nowhere - to be scummy. [???]

#1555: Ladd says "i can see this [...] kage also kinda fits with literally any team" in response to Boq finding one of Kage's posts scummy.

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: kage seems >rand wolf by PoE but i got 0 meta on them

#1579: From large reads post: low PoE (null but leaning wolf by PoE)
kage - ngl the formatting made me skip their huge post and the rest of the posts do nothing for me (and push on HK feels weak)

#1639: In response to Visor's case on ladd: Sorry nope bro. Taffy is in the lightside of things in my books from what ive seen so far and so is ladd.

#1713: ladd laughs at an exchange between Visor and Kage

#1769: kage feels like someone who is gonna die to the villagers regardless of alignment best i got is that he is not w/w with boq (probably)

#1771: reskimming monty iso mega quick i could also see him being a wolf
kinda weird him/kage have got so little heat considering they'd be the 2 easiest target (no offense
i liked a couple of minor points from monty but really nothing i care to hang onto when there is so many villagery people

MONTY

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1006: Reads: Ladd & dyachei have rolled mafia in Org games I've - many of us have - played in. I don't remember any meta. Null.

#1161: Monty pushback on Ender looks good while Ender looks bad.

#1164: While shading Ender he ups Ender's read that "For Monty I think the piggyback and the response is broadly a towny response."

#1192: ladd asks about Monty D1 reads (I respond in #1875).

#1553: Dismissing Ender's SR of me: monty is a wolf cause they are low impact? cmn really lol [...] again this feels too level 0

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: monty also seems more villagery than not

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
monty - dunno maybe he should be the tier below but i bought some of his d1 posts (the yolo team guess, the pushback on ender). if ender is a wolf i think he looks ok

#1771: reskimming monty iso mega quick i could also see him being a wolf
kinda weird him/kage have got so little heat considering they'd be the 2 easiest target (no offense
i liked a couple of minor points from monty but really nothing i care to hang onto when there is so many villagery people

#1875: I tell ladd that my D1 pings (Amp-Logic-Ender-Visor plus one secret sauce) were vibes-based. I answer Boq's question to ladd in #1804 with "Lots. Wagonomics. D2 interactions."

#2072: I appeal to dya and ladd to wagon Ender with me SOD3. Ladd's first post of the day, and his last action, is to comply, without acknowledging my post.

RENATA

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1166: Renata tells ladd how to clear multiquotes.

#1553: Ender criticizes Renata for a post with "Limited town reads, wide scumpool." Ladd's response to this: renata is wolfy cause of too many wolfreads...when thats village indicative if anything ime

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: renata/csargo both seem v villagery

#1579: From large reads post: villagers
renata - never played with them but they post extremely sharp and very direct. not trying to appease at all and notices/pushes things wolves don't imo

#1601: Renata disagrees with ladd about how to think of Pizza's desperado targeting, certitude that it wasn't Ender. In #1604 ladd tells Renata that his reads on Vulgard and Ender are independent of that. Renata in #1609: It sucks because my reads at the time I left last night were the same, but I can?t just ignore the posts that Ender pointed out. I can?t see Pizza being that irresponsible. If he was, fuck that I?m blaming him.

#1736: In response to Renata suggesting that Visor and dya commenting on Taffy is partners ginning up a counterwagon to Visor: villagery post (but i disagree on dya, they look villagery in the exchange imo)

#1745: Defends #1736 to Visor because "it's an hard post to make."

#1769: renata you seems to have more experience with them than me and i have no clue what their wolf range is but if a random player was posting like they are this game i'd easily call them a villager and call it a day

#1775: Renata agrees with #1771 (see Monty/Kage sections).

#1830: Responding to Taffy about #1771: They're both kind of coasting. GTH I go with Monty as wolf over Kage, half because Kage feels so artless in his lack of engagement and half because Visor likes Kage less.

#1977: Renata reads post: Ladd, I don't know. I tend to like their posting when I read it (aside from the initial vote on Logic from day one) and then I get a little distance and don't like it as much. Nothing consolidated, not going to try today.

TAFFY

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#907 Taffy's reads wall: Ladd: I thought your post with the quotes from Logic was awful until someone called it a joke. I'm pretty sure you haven't done anything that would let me read you yet.

#1193: ladd's reads: my strongest villa reads are cape/vulgard then pizza/taffy (idk if i mentioned them but i really liked a string of posts they had on..some page. it was v genuine imo)

#1299: Taffy willing to sheep ATPG and Vulgard on positive read of ladd. Also willing to sheep "Montmorencey, Kagemusha, Boquise and Ladd. Given a green check I'd also definitely sheep Ender."

#1579: From large reads post: villagers
taffy - genuinely lack clear for their d2 posting and post 1375 is just never from a wolf

#1606/19: Taffy and ladd discuss desperado OMG I AM DONE FINALLY

#1719 ladd defends taffy from Visor SR: this seems completely opposite to how they seem to be posting afaict they have plenty of attitude/sassiness

#1723: Defending taffy from Visor's vote: and even besides that taffy is the villageriest player itg IMO i can villa case them if needed but they'd be my 1 do not ever kill

#1778: Taffy asks if Renata agrees with #1771 (see Renata/Kage/Monty sections)

#1830: Responding to Taffy about #1771: They're both kind of coasting. GTH I go with Monty as wolf over Kage, half because Kage feels so artless in his lack of engagement and half because Visor likes Kage less.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

VULGARD

mEH

ENDER

#730s: Disagrees with Ender's Logic read: "I dont think thats what logic did?"

#977: Reads: Kage/Ladd/Dyachei are the grouping I don't really have a read on properly rn.

#1038: Reads: Csargo is an ehehhh with Dya/ladd/Kage just above.

#1168: Ender scummy for not wanting to fight with Pizza. Just look in the general vicinity of this post for other attacks on Ender by ladd.

.....

#1719: are you clearing ender just cause maybe he got shot?

#1739: Insisting on the Ender case to Visor

#1785: Ladd calling out Visor's posts as wolfy but continuing to vote me is an interesting mood

#1809: Ladd is wolf and I think with Visor based on how neither wants Visir to flip. Or is that prefliopy ego talking? Idk

Commentary (D1): Ladd's first post is #364, hard-suss on "obv wolf" Logic with a vote. Vulgard fills out the page with concerns about this entry. Logic wagon is very dominant now with 4 votes, Visor is pleased, Ladd builds the case and expresses Cape as "one of my few villagers." Vulgard calls this PIS/TMI. Almost all early ladd interactions are with Visor and/or fluff. Amy remarks that she doesn't need to contribute now that ladd is voting with her on Logic. Cape finds ladd's pop-in to be scummy.

Spooge being overpowered in extensive discussion with Vulgard:



:ave:

Ladd has almost no thread-presence D1 due to time issues. He returns near EOD to tell us that he now suspects Ender more than Visor, for Pizza-interaction reasons (and votes there). He is essentially starting the Ender wagon from scratch, and speaks out against Logic and Visor wagons with basically neutral or mixed reads.

Amy #745: uhhh cape and vulgard are probably my strongest townreads. visor and hk maybe a tier below, both mostly off vibes. dya i don't want to kill before i can get a solid read on them, ladd/pizza i kinda just don't want to kill d1 in general

During EOD neither Visor nor Logic find anything to hold against ladd, though spooge votes ladd. Congratulations again to Cape, Vulgard, and Spooge for seeing through him D1 despite minimal thread presence.


Commentary (D2): I deprioritize recording ladd assoc with dead/clear players for D2 at some point.



kappa

Cape #984: Most interested in voting Kage/ladd/Monty

Vulgard #1011: ladd is probably town for his play on d1 being very idgaf yet wagon switching from Logic when I think he could've reasonably stuck there.

[Just an editorial, but I think high-tier mafia often make such switches between townie wagons on D1 because there are no stakes for them, while potentially creating the illusion of stakes, as well as setting up future antispew]

Pizza #1054: Case for why the NK is not ladd's work.

Ladd gets active again from the #1160s onward. He quickly publishes a number of reactions/reads, starting with reaffirmation of his t-Cape read ("villagery reaction to pizza weird early posting") and ending with more ender push. Lot of focus on people's interactions with Pizza.

#1174 ladd approves of Pizza's scumleans (Vulgard/Spooge/Amp/Ender), starts to find Pizza towny. However, also starts to TL Vulgard for Pizza interactions and other.

#1193 ladd summary hard to categorize:



Pizza #1489: Pizza's death-leans have ladd at the bottom.

Ender reads #1506: I want to wolfread them for their treatment of me but I know that's OMGUS so I'm reserving this slot until I have someone else read them for me.

#1579 is ladd's final full reads post. I distribute contents among the sections above.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Xposting with ladd's wall of reads is excellent.

In the #1600s Visor cases Ladd, as well as Taffy, dya, and HK. See character logs at the top - interesting that at the same time, Kage and dya - in response to Visor - had the same low-detail TLs on ladd and taffy.

#1719 is a very important ladd post defending taffy/hollow/dya from Visor (I've quoted it previously).

ladd interacts with Visor quite a lot throughout D2, esp. late day, esp. about Ender.



ladd D2 scumleans hard to categorize #1756

Cape struggles with his scumlean on ladd throughout the day.

Random observation: ladd interacts most heavily with people he scumreads or is voting, or top thread suspects.

---

i skimmed the parts of me because i am egoistical tbh and the parts ladd said about kage makes me think kage is unpaired with him. Which makes me go hmm more at Amy trying to start a wagon on Kage tbh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hollowkatt

also I don't think monty is a wolf any more and I'm contemplating whether or not renata on dya is a bus or wolf v town.

I do think we desperately need a flip in the renata/dya/amy/kaga bucket though/

---

You started the day off voting Dyachei. Have they improved on you, or are you mostly focusing on Renata now because of her case on you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

I'm actually surprised Pizza never saw a single scummy post from ladd, when ladd spent a lot of time being passive-aggressive around Pizza and judging players on how they interacted with Pizza. Feels like this specifically breaks one of Pizza's stated rules, including as he himself described them D1.

---

feels like this is a post game post in the middle of the game.. kinda wanna town read monty for it

If we're going purely by least interactions with ladd, or least detailed reads by ladd, that could be Csargo-HK-Kage. But that seems wack somehow.

Both dya and boq have individual equity with ladd; one can easily discern a plan in execution by setting ladd's activity alongside either of them. Dya + ladd would e.g. obviously be reinforcing sequential Ender>Amy MLs. Boq, basically backing ladd up but while giving a few mixed messages on alignment read to distance.

I think ladd was basically just power scumming from the beginning and never strongly SRed any partners, but also kept most, if not all, of his partners in the player salad (i.e. no more than one partner among strong townreads). I perceive that ladd reserved his most detailed reads and deepest interactions for townies he was killing (e.g. Cape, Logic, Ender, Visor).

So Boq/Csargo/Dya/Kage/Taffy still seems best, with strongest impressions on Boq and Dya individually. Let's see what EOD brings.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

Ender: #1506 looks bad, if you're misclearing someone it's Ender

---

No.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

You started the day off voting Dyachei. Have they improved on you, or are you mostly focusing on Renata now because of her case on you?

---

mostly that comment was drawing attention to renata voting dya and wondering this outloud: if renata IS a wolf what does that do for my dya read?

If renata is town my dya read is basically unchanged, wolf. If renata is a wolf I have to decide if this is a bus or if dya is town and renata is looking for a mischop. I do think there's tangential relationships between renata, dya, and amy but I'm not sure yet what that means.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

I fucking love the manageable pace of the thread today. This is what Mafia used to be.

Questions again. Is dyachei ladd's top TR because partner, or because like cape and vulgard they're town? Is - excluding Ender - Amy ladd's top SR because she's a townie like all the rest, or is she the partner thrown in the mix for distancing?

Crucial questions.

One point against dya is that though ladd treats them as a top TR, whenever he discussed them in the context of reads in general he slots them with groups of lighter TRs, not outright stating a top town read like with cape or vulgard.

I'm not certain on dya's status, but dya ouster is +++EV over Amy.

I suspect ladd's partners are people he dumps in vague TL buckets with other players, and/or doesn't interact with directly in the thread.

---

I think it depends entirely on how Ladd interacted with them, yeah? Like ok if it's just reads list it probably doesn't mean a thing. if it's continual engagement while calling them top town and reminding others of the top town read then yeah, it's meaningful and not in a positive way.

Like it's super easy to talk about your partners in all directions, more so than it is for people you're not partnered with.

vote: dya

no idea on taffy tbh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

Yes that's what I remember too.


I wanted to reread today but I only got to about page 34 which is pants. Worse news is I no longer believe in my HK/Montmorency solve.

That leaves me looking for three wolves in Ender/Renata/Dyachei/Csargo and I'm not loving any combination I can make there.

But Boquise/Kagemusha/Ampharos all feel too uninvested to be wolves this game. I know I'm projecting but I'd feel more motivated if I had teammates atp.


I still have other tabs open I wanted to reply to but I'm not sure how many are still relevant now.

---

I'm hard on ender = town now. Does removing him from the pile of renata/dya/csargo change things for you?

This is practically OGI, but looking at dya's contradiction-posts on ladd again

Quote:

---

#1646: Visor asks dya for thoughts on ladd: ladd is lean villager so is taffy. I think the way taffy's approaching the game is decent. I find myself nodding along with his posts

---

If dya and taffy share a scumchat, would dya be referring to taffy as "he" in-thread D2? :shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

LADD ASSOCIATIONS

NB: I went beyond what I promised and included some people's interactions toward or about ladd. Highlighted text represents what ladd himself was doing/saying, to prevent confusion arising from my format


AMP

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#745: Amy's reads: uhhh cape and vulgard are probably my strongest townreads. visor and hk maybe a tier below, both mostly off vibes. dya i don't want to kill before i can get a solid read on them, ladd/pizza i kinda just don't want to kill d1 in general

#1161 ladd shooting off reads. Amy is scummy for her posts about Pizza.

#1193: ladd thinks Amy scummy for position on Logic D1, pairs her with Ender, unsure of pairing with Visor.

#1264: Amy's reads post (implicit conditionals on m-Ender): ladd is town and i think my reason for it is kinda stupid. i don't think w!ladd would have any reason to bus w!ender when there are a fair few other suspects with momentum today (e.g. hypothetical v!vulgard, e.g. myself), and in a w!ladd v!ender world i don't think ladd would want to tie my alignment so directly to ender's and risk undermining his wolfread on me when ender flips
"amy surely that isn't the sole thing you're townreading ladd on" idk i think his d1 was a villagery sort of incorrect. i honestly don't think i'm a very good ladd reader, the one other game i've actually played with him he snowed me hard

#1579: From large reads post: amy - refer to my big post+ their wall post feels like a wolf making a huge post to get people off them [...] if [Ender] is a wolf, always kill amy next

#1769: for amy my only fear is dya villa reading them, maybe i should respect dya's read more. but besides that i think they have been wolfy (tho not excessively so) and they fit like a glove in an ender!wolf world

#2112: i could write a poem about why ender and amy are wolves and wolves together

BOQUISE

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

First interactions in #430s about posting gifs

#1240: Boq decides to TR ladd and sheep onto Ender because of ladd's posting since #1160, specifically quoting the D1 summary.
also, if amy is a wolf it means i was awesome yesterday tbh

#1555: Ladd says "i can see this [...] kage also kinda fits with literally any team" in response to Boq finding one of Kage's posts scummy.

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
boq- has done even less than me eheh. but when he posts i agree with everything he says just dunno if its enough to really move him up

#1764: In humoring Visor's requesst to talk about something other than Visor/Ender: lettuce talk super briefly (cause i gotta go and i am already late lol) about dya and boq
imo dya was very villagery last couple of pages, i feel the renata/HK pushes are the "hipster" pushes dya makes as a villager where they think they latch onto something and go for it despite what everyone else thinks

#1767 completing the thought on Boq: boq idk
i am not the best boq reader. he has felt very chill this game and i havent really disagreed with anything he has said
i also think he defended a lot of people i think are villagers so that wins him points too
but clearly none of those things are impossible to fake as a wolf

#1769: kage feels like someone who is gonna die to the villagers regardless of alignment best i got is that he is not w/w with boq (probably)

#1804: Boq asks ladd what info an Ender ouster will offer

#1810: When Ender suggests a Ladd/Visor team: Ladd said he was leaning on Visor wolf tho

#1816: Boq asks ladd to read him and soon realizes ladd did, quoting the post.

#1832: TRs ladd for a post lamenting the non-casual nature of the game.

#1836: Says "Mmmmh" to a ladd post telling Ender that he is his top SR.

#1908: Boq examines ladd's possible motivations as scum, concluding that "I think by occam's razors, ladd is town tbh. It is way more similar to his modus operandi as town than scum tbh."

#1920: Leans list with ladd as lowest town. Ladd unpaired with both Visor and Ender.

CSARGO

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1166: Renata tells ladd how to clear multiquotes.
#1167: Csargo affirms Renata's answer.

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: renata/csargo both seem v villagery

#1579: From large reads post: leaning villa
csargo - similarish to renata but a bit less strong. good thoughts/solving

#1693: Visor @s Csargo for opinion on Taffy and ladd, Csargo responds in #1714.

#1714: I'll look at taffy and ladd again, my impression was they're both town. Feel like the stuff you said about taffy could easily be v stuff to me. Ladd was just feelies, felt good about their posting as they were catching up.

#1827: I think [Visor] more likely to be a woof than Taffy, maybe even ladd as well. [ @Csargo did you mean Visor scummier than ladd here?]

DYACHEI

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#730s: First interactions. Ladd makes his second appearance of D1 (see commentary) and dyachei immediately asks for ladd's read on themselves. [I don't like this.] Ladd responds concisely: "You seemed villagery enuf."

#1579: From large reads post: leaning villa
dya - i havent been too hot in reading dya lately but i think the way they are making reads at their own pace and the SNARK everytime anyone dares to shade or wolf read them is >>>rand villa

#1646: Visor asks dya for thoughts on ladd: ladd is lean villager so is taffy. I think the way taffy's approaching the game is decent. I find myself nodding along with his posts

#1690s: Asks Visor about his ladd case, doesn't like taffy's pop-in either. In response to Visor's wall-case responding to dya: yeah i think he hasn't spent enough time in the thread for me to get a good read on him

[ALERT: Contradiction!!!]

#1719 ladd defends dya from Visor SR: maybe if it was 2 years ago but their meta changed a ton

#1736: In response to Renata suggesting that Visor and dya commenting on Taffy is partners ginning up a counterwagon to Visor: villagery post (but i disagree on dya, they look villagery in the exchange imo)

#1764: In humoring Visor's requesst to talk about something other than Visor/Ender: lettuce talk super briefly (cause i gotta go and i am already late lol) about dya and boq
imo dya was very villagery last couple of pages, i feel the renata/HK pushes are the "hipster" pushes dya makes as a villager where they think they latch onto something and go for it despite what everyone else thinks

#1769: for amy my only fear is dya villa reading them, maybe i should respect dya's read more. but besides that i think they have been wolfy (tho not excessively so) and they fit like a glove in an ender!wolf world

HOLLOW (HK)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#944: HK asks Pizza why he thinks ladd is clear from killing spooge N1.

#996: if [Ender] a wolf at least one partner is in the Kage/Ladd/Dya bucket

#1161: HK's shade of Pizza is "villagery read for early game."

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
HK - push on pizza d1 was villagery, d2 posting seems fine. keeps going after players who he should know will bite back (pizza,dya) which is rand iyam

#1719 ladd defends HK from Visor SR: did you read the sorcerer game you hosted? i don't think he is posting differently from there (but i concede he may be a wolf)

KAGE

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1152: In his leans post, Kage has ladd as the only member of the "town leaning" bucket, specifically for his original case against Logic. However, he also finds ladd's entry - voting Logic out of nowhere - to be scummy. [???]

#1555: Ladd says "i can see this [...] kage also kinda fits with literally any team" in response to Boq finding one of Kage's posts scummy.

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: kage seems >rand wolf by PoE but i got 0 meta on them

#1579: From large reads post: low PoE (null but leaning wolf by PoE)
kage - ngl the formatting made me skip their huge post and the rest of the posts do nothing for me (and push on HK feels weak)

#1639: In response to Visor's case on ladd: Sorry nope bro. Taffy is in the lightside of things in my books from what ive seen so far and so is ladd.

#1713: ladd laughs at an exchange between Visor and Kage

#1769: kage feels like someone who is gonna die to the villagers regardless of alignment best i got is that he is not w/w with boq (probably)

#1771: reskimming monty iso mega quick i could also see him being a wolf
kinda weird him/kage have got so little heat considering they'd be the 2 easiest target (no offense
i liked a couple of minor points from monty but really nothing i care to hang onto when there is so many villagery people

MONTY

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1006: Reads: Ladd & dyachei have rolled mafia in Org games I've - many of us have - played in. I don't remember any meta. Null.

#1161: Monty pushback on Ender looks good while Ender looks bad.

#1164: While shading Ender he ups Ender's read that "For Monty I think the piggyback and the response is broadly a towny response."

#1192: ladd asks about Monty D1 reads (I respond in #1875).

#1553: Dismissing Ender's SR of me: monty is a wolf cause they are low impact? cmn really lol [...] again this feels too level 0

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: monty also seems more villagery than not

#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
monty - dunno maybe he should be the tier below but i bought some of his d1 posts (the yolo team guess, the pushback on ender). if ender is a wolf i think he looks ok

#1771: reskimming monty iso mega quick i could also see him being a wolf
kinda weird him/kage have got so little heat considering they'd be the 2 easiest target (no offense
i liked a couple of minor points from monty but really nothing i care to hang onto when there is so many villagery people

#1875: I tell ladd that my D1 pings (Amp-Logic-Ender-Visor plus one secret sauce) were vibes-based. I answer Boq's question to ladd in #1804 with "Lots. Wagonomics. D2 interactions."

#2072: I appeal to dya and ladd to wagon Ender with me SOD3. Ladd's first post of the day, and his last action, is to comply, without acknowledging my post.

RENATA

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#1166: Renata tells ladd how to clear multiquotes.

#1553: Ender criticizes Renata for a post with "Limited town reads, wide scumpool." Ladd's response to this: renata is wolfy cause of too many wolfreads...when thats village indicative if anything ime

#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: renata/csargo both seem v villagery

#1579: From large reads post: villagers
renata - never played with them but they post extremely sharp and very direct. not trying to appease at all and notices/pushes things wolves don't imo

#1601: Renata disagrees with ladd about how to think of Pizza's desperado targeting, certitude that it wasn't Ender. In #1604 ladd tells Renata that his reads on Vulgard and Ender are independent of that. Renata in #1609: It sucks because my reads at the time I left last night were the same, but I can?t just ignore the posts that Ender pointed out. I can?t see Pizza being that irresponsible. If he was, fuck that I?m blaming him.

#1736: In response to Renata suggesting that Visor and dya commenting on Taffy is partners ginning up a counterwagon to Visor: villagery post (but i disagree on dya, they look villagery in the exchange imo)

#1745: Defends #1736 to Visor because "it's an hard post to make."

#1769: renata you seems to have more experience with them than me and i have no clue what their wolf range is but if a random player was posting like they are this game i'd easily call them a villager and call it a day

#1775: Renata agrees with #1771 (see Monty/Kage sections).

#1830: Responding to Taffy about #1771: They're both kind of coasting. GTH I go with Monty as wolf over Kage, half because Kage feels so artless in his lack of engagement and half because Visor likes Kage less.

#1977: Renata reads post: Ladd, I don't know. I tend to like their posting when I read it (aside from the initial vote on Logic from day one) and then I get a little distance and don't like it as much. Nothing consolidated, not going to try today.

TAFFY

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

#907 Taffy's reads wall: Ladd: I thought your post with the quotes from Logic was awful until someone called it a joke. I'm pretty sure you haven't done anything that would let me read you yet.

#1193: ladd's reads: my strongest villa reads are cape/vulgard then pizza/taffy (idk if i mentioned them but i really liked a string of posts they had on..some page. it was v genuine imo)

#1299: Taffy willing to sheep ATPG and Vulgard on positive read of ladd. Also willing to sheep "Montmorencey, Kagemusha, Boquise and Ladd. Given a green check I'd also definitely sheep Ender."

#1579: From large reads post: villagers
taffy - genuinely lack clear for their d2 posting and post 1375 is just never from a wolf

#1606/19: Taffy and ladd discuss desperado OMG I AM DONE FINALLY

#1719 ladd defends taffy from Visor SR: this seems completely opposite to how they seem to be posting afaict they have plenty of attitude/sassiness

#1723: Defending taffy from Visor's vote: and even besides that taffy is the villageriest player itg IMO i can villa case them if needed but they'd be my 1 do not ever kill

#1778: Taffy asks if Renata agrees with #1771 (see Renata/Kage/Monty sections)

#1830: Responding to Taffy about #1771: They're both kind of coasting. GTH I go with Monty as wolf over Kage, half because Kage feels so artless in his lack of engagement and half because Visor likes Kage less.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

VULGARD

mEH

ENDER

#730s: Disagrees with Ender's Logic read: "I dont think thats what logic did?"

#977: Reads: Kage/Ladd/Dyachei are the grouping I don't really have a read on properly rn.

#1038: Reads: Csargo is an ehehhh with Dya/ladd/Kage just above.

#1168: Ender scummy for not wanting to fight with Pizza. Just look in the general vicinity of this post for other attacks on Ender by ladd.

.....

#1719: are you clearing ender just cause maybe he got shot?

#1739: Insisting on the Ender case to Visor

#1785: Ladd calling out Visor's posts as wolfy but continuing to vote me is an interesting mood

#1809: Ladd is wolf and I think with Visor based on how neither wants Visir to flip. Or is that prefliopy ego talking? Idk

Commentary (D1): Ladd's first post is #364, hard-suss on "obv wolf" Logic with a vote. Vulgard fills out the page with concerns about this entry. Logic wagon is very dominant now with 4 votes, Visor is pleased, Ladd builds the case and expresses Cape as "one of my few villagers." Vulgard calls this PIS/TMI. Almost all early ladd interactions are with Visor and/or fluff. Amy remarks that she doesn't need to contribute now that ladd is voting with her on Logic. Cape finds ladd's pop-in to be scummy.

Spooge being overpowered in extensive discussion with Vulgard:



:ave:

Ladd has almost no thread-presence D1 due to time issues. He returns near EOD to tell us that he now suspects Ender more than Visor, for Pizza-interaction reasons (and votes there). He is essentially starting the Ender wagon from scratch, and speaks out against Logic and Visor wagons with basically neutral or mixed reads.

Amy #745: uhhh cape and vulgard are probably my strongest townreads. visor and hk maybe a tier below, both mostly off vibes. dya i don't want to kill before i can get a solid read on them, ladd/pizza i kinda just don't want to kill d1 in general

During EOD neither Visor nor Logic find anything to hold against ladd, though spooge votes ladd. Congratulations again to Cape, Vulgard, and Spooge for seeing through him D1 despite minimal thread presence.


Commentary (D2): I deprioritize recording ladd assoc with dead/clear players for D2 at some point.



kappa

Cape #984: Most interested in voting Kage/ladd/Monty

Vulgard #1011: ladd is probably town for his play on d1 being very idgaf yet wagon switching from Logic when I think he could've reasonably stuck there.

[Just an editorial, but I think high-tier mafia often make such switches between townie wagons on D1 because there are no stakes for them, while potentially creating the illusion of stakes, as well as setting up future antispew]

Pizza #1054: Case for why the NK is not ladd's work.

Ladd gets active again from the #1160s onward. He quickly publishes a number of reactions/reads, starting with reaffirmation of his t-Cape read ("villagery reaction to pizza weird early posting") and ending with more ender push. Lot of focus on people's interactions with Pizza.

#1174 ladd approves of Pizza's scumleans (Vulgard/Spooge/Amp/Ender), starts to find Pizza towny. However, also starts to TL Vulgard for Pizza interactions and other.

#1193 ladd summary hard to categorize:



Pizza #1489: Pizza's death-leans have ladd at the bottom.

Ender reads #1506: I want to wolfread them for their treatment of me but I know that's OMGUS so I'm reserving this slot until I have someone else read them for me.

#1579 is ladd's final full reads post. I distribute contents among the sections above.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Xposting with ladd's wall of reads is excellent.

In the #1600s Visor cases Ladd, as well as Taffy, dya, and HK. See character logs at the top - interesting that at the same time, Kage and dya - in response to Visor - had the same low-detail TLs on ladd and taffy.

#1719 is a very important ladd post defending taffy/hollow/dya from Visor (I've quoted it previously).

ladd interacts with Visor quite a lot throughout D2, esp. late day, esp. about Ender.



ladd D2 scumleans hard to categorize #1756

Cape struggles with his scumlean on ladd throughout the day.

Random observation: ladd interacts most heavily with people he scumreads or is voting, or top thread suspects.

---

brief skim says Monty = town. caveat is that if nobody does "work" a wolf can do "work" and look really really good. I don't think that's going on here.

Dya (4): Vulgard, Renata, Taffy, HK
Taffy (3): Monty, Csargo, Ender
Kage (1): Amy
HK (1): Kagemusha

EOD in one hour

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hollowkatt

if you'd be so kind as to elaborate on your first comment there I'd appreciate it because I'm not seeing how you make that connection

---

First comment was "Particularly I do not believe that kill happens when ladd is scum."

This does look good for HK.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hollowkatt

I'm hard on ender = town now. Does removing him from the pile of renata/dya/csargo change things for you?

---

That would make it more likely there's a wolf in the bottom group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

This is practically OGI, but looking at dya's contradiction-posts on ladd again



If dya and taffy share a scumchat, would dya be referring to taffy as "he" in-thread D2? :shrug:

---

You should not read into that. I have other accounts with male names, and Dyachei is an MU mod.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hollowkatt

I think it depends entirely on how Ladd interacted with them, yeah? Like ok if it's just reads list it probably doesn't mean a thing. if it's continual engagement while calling them top town and reminding others of the top town read then yeah, it's meaningful and not in a positive way.

Like it's super easy to talk about your partners in all directions, more so than it is for people you're not partnered with.

---

He didn't do that with anyone but known townies, namely Cape and Vulgard, and maybe a little bit of Logic late D1. Otherwise, see the Assoc sheet, it's basically just brief comments.