XCOM: Enemy Unknown

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Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine

Since I had lost quite a lot of support following my negligence of satelliting as much country as I could, in my first go with XCOM:EW yesterday, I preferred to not spend a single shilling on soldier upgrades and focused on excavations, satellite uplinks and satellite launches instead.

I got torn up. The Matrix-esque guys had only recently shown up in game and my manpower was already plummeting. A survivor extraction mission ended up total disaster, losing all soldiers on site.

I just couldn't figure out how to balance out the sci-eng-credits expenditure concerning the squads and infrastructure. No satelliting means cancerous panic everywhere, no upgrades mean losing a lot of guys and eventually coming to an end. Should I sacrifice one over another (obviously the latter needs a little bit of improving but still) or the gameplay accepts a management I couldn't figure out yet?

:bow:

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Perhaps there are other strategies, but the satellites/weapons priority works fine for me on Classic Ironman, even in EW. You make up for your shortfall in equipment/abilities on the battlefield with better tactics. Do not be afraid of explosives, they are your friend, especially in the early game. Any loss of weapon fragments is a minor inconvenience if it saves the life of your soldiers. Don't forget that explosives can destroy cover as well. I cannot count the number of times I have used explosives to knock down walls (without damaging anything) just to open up a shot so that another soldier can save one at risk of death. It's not a cake-walk by any means. Even in my successful runs I've taken some big losses, losing some of my best soldiers in months 2-3. However, the game is relatively kind in this regard and if you find yourself running short on a role you'll often see a high ranking soldier of that role pop up as a reward on an abduction mission. If you've gotten panic under control with satellites, you'll have more freedom to select missions like that with rewards you want, instead of having to choose purely based on panic levels.

If the "Matrix-esque guys" you're referring to are the Seekers, there are specific tactics that defend effectively against them. The Seekers uncloak just prior to strangulation, and at that point overwatch gets triggered on them from everyone but the target of the attack. Thus, when you uncover Seekers, everyone at risk of a strangulation attack should try and get within LOS of each other and all be put on overwatch. If you do that, it's very likely that the Seeker will be instantly killed by the overwatch fire when it uncloaks, before it can do any damage. I've also had success by rocketing the area where they went invisible immediately afterwards, though that's something of a gamble.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Oh, and Memitic Skin is almost certainly the greatest single ability in the entire game.

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In my opinion this completely wrecks the balance of the game for missions. I've got a friend who by month 2 or maybe it was 3 had an entire squad with this. The AI doesn't even begin to know how to handle it. And by the time you get snipers who get full cover EVERYWHERE, as I have in my current campaign, I can basically take my two snipers and plant them anywhere I want to and shoot the place up. It's a shooting gallery.

I can't honestly believe this does not have a cool down. It's ridiculous.

Oh, and one mimetic medic with the extra 3 steps or a bot coupled with an 5 snipers would be just flat out stupid. With low profile (half cover is full) and double tap.

There isn't an enemy in the game the AI can field that could even comprehend what was happening to them much less handle it.

While no one is forcing you to play like this, it's a game play balancing failure of epic proportions that this is possible.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Huh.. I must have read that one wrong cuz it didn't look that good and I ignored it. Doesn't it not work if the enemy could see you're starting point?

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Just start using it some and you'll see just how comically easy it is to abuse. With full cover snipers I can run almost anywhere on a map and remain invisible. Till of course I've planted not one but two 15 pt plasma shots in your head.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Huh.. I must have read that one wrong cuz it didn't look that good and I ignored it. Doesn't it not work if the enemy could see you're starting point?

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Yeah, but there are plenty of ways around that. For example, you can just have you snipers kill the thing that can see you. Another option derives from the fact that Memitic Skin works on ANY movement, not just the first move of a round. So, if an enemy could see you, you can use you first move to reveal with the movement taking you to a spot the enemy cannot see. You then use Dash to move back to a full cover spot, thus making you invisible again before the enemy gets a turn. Put Memitic Skin on assaults with Lightning Reflexes, and even overwatch issues are solved here.

Try it, you'll see. It needs to be nerfed with a cool down or something, right now it's comical.

Use it and see how befuddled the AI becomes. Turns take longer while the AI tries to sort out where I've gone....haha

What does mimetic skin provide practically? I remember not being awed having read the description.

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Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine

What does mimetic skin provide practically? I remember not being awed having read the description.

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Scouting. You can spot enemies without them seeing you, and plan accordingly. Combined with Squadsight snipers and rockets, you can kill entire packs of enemies before they even see one of your soldiers. In addition, it makes it much, much easier to obtain Meld. There's significantly less risk with splitting off a soldier to run across the map and snag some Meld when that soldier can stay invisible (and thus out of harms way) the entire way. It's also superb for getting personnel close enough to the enemy for flanking attacks and stunning. Finally, Exalt covert ops missions are a piece of cake if your operative have Mimetic skin. He can run around the place activating all the various comms towers without much concern for his own safety, despite his lack of equipment.

Something that even Mimetic skin users may not have realized: Mimetic skin works in any cover that acts like high cover, not just any cover that is high cover. As such, a sniper with Low Profile and Mimetic skin will actually go invisible hiding in any cover on the entire map. This opens up some interesting options for aggressive Snapshot snipers.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Scouting. You can spot enemies without them seeing you, and plan accordingly. Combined with Squadsight snipers and rockets, you can kill entire packs of enemies before they even see one of your soldiers. In addition, it makes it much, much easier to obtain Meld. There's significantly less risk with splitting off a soldier to run across the map and snag some Meld when that soldier can stay invisible (and thus out of harms way) the entire way. It's also superb for getting personnel close enough to the enemy for flanking attacks and stunning. Finally, Exalt covert ops missions are a piece of cake if your operative have Mimetic skin. He can run around the place activating all the various comms towers without much concern for his own safety, despite his lack of equipment.

Something that even Mimetic skin users may not have realized: Mimetic skin works in any cover that acts like high cover, not just any cover that is high cover. As such, a sniper with Low Profile and Mimetic skin will actually go invisible hiding in any cover on the entire map. This opens up some interesting options for aggressive Snapshot snipers.

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WHOA.

I say nerf inbounds.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Something that even Mimetic skin users may not have realized: Mimetic skin works in any cover that acts like high cover, not just any cover that is high cover. As such, a sniper with Low Profile and Mimetic skin will actually go invisible hiding in any cover on the entire map. This opens up some interesting options for aggressive Snapshot snipers.

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This is THE reason I find it comical.

To be fair, having 4-5 Squadsight-specced Snipers was comically imbalanced in the vanilla game as well, even before Ghost Armor-Supports/Assaults. Them being invisible is just icing on the cake - pretty silly icing considering they invented a new enemy type to very specifically counter the concept of lone Squadsight Snipers. But I feel you really should limit your squads to max 2 of a type anyway, mostly due to Snipers.

Beaglerush said that he's not going to use any of the MELD-enhancements and solely rely on MECHs, because all the enhancements are bloody stupid in that they're overpowered while being unnecessary, and though I have yet to acquire anything remotely useful yet (due to me being consistently dead, hello Impossible, its been a while), I have a nagging little feeling that he might be right... which is kind of saddening. I remember, when I first saw footage of the leg enhancements that let your soldiers act like Thin Men and jump higher than Kris Kross mixed with Die Antwoord would have ever dreamt of, that this is... redundant while being stupid. I mean we have grappling hooks and Archangel Armor for that, and those things were the exact mix of sci-fi-awesome and gameplay-functional for me. What is this?

Enemy Within is a nice addition due to the polish of a lot of little things, map variety and different starting positions on each map and so forth, and I really like the Meld-container concept, giving you more than one objective on abduction and UFO missions, but the whole MELD-idea is bugging me and perma-stealth - a feature so imbalanced that if Ghost Armor provided no defense and no mobility increase it would still be worth it for the 4 charges alone - makes me more anxious.

Arh, Im being wholly unreasonable. Let the game prove to me that it's silly! To the front! Hopefully further than mission 5 this time!

That is a valid point. What Im worried is that the choice is less "Gunslinger" versus "Damn Good Ground" (the hardest choice in the game for me) and more "Squadsight" versus... whatever that other thing is called that no one has ever used, ever. But with some patches to polish the balance, the concept could be good. It's just that... the vanilla game never really got that. So I'm sceptical. But I guess it is all moddable in time.

So yeah, the teleport bug is back with a fury that I've yet to experience before. I was playing an unusually solid first mission, clearing a train yard step by step. Got the first MELD canister, got the first group with no hits taken and no grenades used. Then started moving towards the other side of the train yard after clearing every inch of "my" side.

Decided to Overwatch my squad while my straggler caught up with a dash. As she dashed through completely familiar territory, she somehow invokes 3 Sectoids out of litterally thin air (as in - I could see the area they spawned from). And that was my last move, so they got 3 free flankshots from the rear. My confidence is shaken - how am I to advance if the enemy can be anywhere? Anytime? Wait... that cloaking augment... do the Sectoids have access to it?!

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"Squadsight" versus... whatever that other thing is called that no one has ever used, ever

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...Snapshot has it's merits...

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

...Snapshot has it's merits...

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It might in the expansion. I am in awe of how elegantly they nerfed Squadsight in EW (didnt notice at first). Pretty good idea to limit the damage potential of Squadsight Snipers while also making Headshot more of a choice. I like it.

I tried Snapshot once, back when it was -20 aim, and I didn't get it. I still don't get it, to be honest. I'm excited that some people do - maybe I'll learn something valuable - but to me the ability makes no sense. Why would I bring a Sniper, the lowest health-class, to move and shoot with less accuracy than a Rookie (In EW it is now aim=Rookie) when I have 3 classes that can do that job for me? Especially when the Sniper is the only class which can reliably deal damage at long range (not counting Heavy-secondaries). I'm bending my head to find a use for it that isn't more effectively covered by bringing someone else. An Assault with a standard Rifle (or its upgrades) still seems better to me for that job. What does the Snapshot Sniper offer that I'm missing?

Some of my latest fun I've had was with, mimic beacons, the upgrade to the MECs punch and the gene splice that prevents MC.

The beacon draws any of the flesh based enemies out into the open, they ignore everything and run towards. Imagine the fun.

The MEC punch upgrade takes what was an interesting melee and increases the damage by 50%, I'm often getting 18-23 damage from it, so naturally I walk up and hit stuff a lot.

And last, tired of getting MC'd, well now you've got the additional resistance spliced right into your soldier, on top of the Psi armor and the helmet. Combined you can make someone invulnerable to PSI attacks.

I just finished a normal campaign just for the purposes of seeing what new was going on, time to fire up ironman classic and try and survive the early months where I often run into the big challenges keeping it all together. Should be interesting with all these new options, and really that's all it is, just more choices about how you want to tackle a problem.

Anyway, I've liked the new additions quite a bit, I'd LOVE to see them release a DLC that did 3 things:
1. made the strat layer slightly more involved then just firing sats up
2. add a wing commander style intercept, jumping into the seat of the intercept would just be too cool for words
3. the ending, i mean seriously, i don't know, put some sectapods at the door, put the head PSI alien somewhere harder to shoot at, i mean god, the choices on how to improve the ending are nearly endless and many of them would be no more difficult than putting different aliens there and placement

I started all over and chose North America as my base so as to be able max. out airborne power as soon as possible.

This time, however, I built a genetics lab at first chance and loaded my 2 heavy and 1 assault soldier with bone marrow upgrade. %66 shorter recovery time and 2 HP max.ed to level without armor in combat sound extremely useful for tankers. I also got the heavy whose first shot does not count as an action hypersensitive pupils that increase their aims in case they miss with the former try -I thought that would complement each other. Another Heavy member has Halotargeting skill so I assume that will add up nicely.

It was too late in the night and I couldn't risk another 10-15 minutes of combat sequence traded off for some sleep.

Hopefully, genetics upgrades are not in vain, yes ?

If those two heavies you are focused on are going on most of your missions it's hard to see how any of the gene splicing you do on them will go to waste. I've not regretted any of the ones I've done, but I'll admit I've only done a few, the health regen one, the PSI protection one near the end, of course I've messed with mimic skin, nd I've used the jump one plus the better aim one on snipers. I consider them all good investments that increase the surviveability of my regulars.

To all those deprived of greatness: Beagle is back! Get the MELD! His stream channel (or his girlfriend's) has quite a few hours of commentated gameplay, which is highly appreciated. Also "ANANDA GUPTA! JAKE SOLOMON!" is now an official "why is this happening to me"-battlecry for XCOM-gaming.

You know you've got something special when your biggest problem with a game is that it's so good you forget things around you - even when you haven't gone farther than the first EXALT-mission yet due to quadquad+1 Thinmen. This game, guys, this game... so good. Let's hope the modding gets off to a good start, or even better: Steam Workshop!

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Originally Posted by Jarmam

What does the Snapshot Sniper offer that I'm missing?

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Well, I was hoping that someone else would answer and reenforce my convictions that my preference for "snapshot" is not a mistake.

Anyway, I find the ability to reposition and fire the same turn has saved many a trooper from being mind controled by a commander or etherial that refuses to come out of hiding. It also helps get the "In The Zone" free shots I get from higher ranked snipers as the aliens never seem to put themselves in a flankable position for my stationary snipers. I add a scope to each of my snipers to undo somewhat the penalty to hit.

That is a pretty important point. I always picked Double Tap so that I don't rely on having to shoot enemies in flanks with my Snipers - I'm trying to capitalize on how often I can hit them anyway, with SCOPE and innate high rank +aim for the class. But with the nerf to Squadsight so that Snipers can no longer crit on a Squadsight shot (outside of Headshot) this approach might not be as effective anymore. Now I have never tried Snapshot+In The Zone, which might be a viable option in the expansion. I hope so! I dislike choices that are so heavily weighted in one direction as the vanilla corporal Sniper felt to be.

As for MC, if my Squadsight Sniper is in range of an Ethereal's mind control, something has gone terribly, terribly wrong. Ideally they're somewhere at least 1 move away from firing/Psi range. Now that means that Snipers are pretty bad at retreating and shooting/overwatching, which is one more reason I kind of like Gunslinger. Gunslinger makes the stock pistol = assault rifle with infinite ammo and a Sniper's aim. Sure, once Ethereals are on the board your plasma pistol shots feel almost laughable (almost... they're actually not that bad) but by then you should be able to control the situation without having to bail your Snipers constantly. But heck, if I ever get an overweight of Snipers I will give it a go. I didn't believe in Suppression for the longest time and now I can't live without it. Who knows? Especially given the new enemy type that really mocks your isolated Snipers.

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Originally Posted by Jarmam

As for MC, if my Squadsight Sniper is in range of an Ethereal's mind control, something has gone terribly, terribly wrong.

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Not exactly what I meant. When the etherials start taking over my assaults whether the sniper can weigh in some damage makes the difference between a dead etherial and my supports getting a shotgun in the face.
That the etherials have a habit of putting a wall or two between them and my other troops make the freedom to move my sniper around handy.

At the point I typically encounter these guys I have a blaster launcher and just shove one of those in the door from out of sight, which puts everything in the room in a bad state, blows the walls off, at which point the snipers finish it off.

So there is never a turn that allows them to MC anyone...

Just stopping by to announce I hate thin men.

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Originally Posted by easytarget

Just stopping by to announce I hate thin men.

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I love the way they groove. Them being poisonous sons of daisies is what I hate.

Agreed, their animations are some of the best in the game. The problem I have with them, especially in I/C, is that they are insanely accurate. So my guys end up making a bunch of wild shots with their crappy starter weapons and miss a lot of course while these guys kill off my troops one shot'ing them.

I just had a guy killed behind full cover and this thin man was not near by, and he wasn't even remotely flanking, in fact he was at an angle to the inside of the full cover which just so happened to be a large truck.

Really hard to rank guys up with this stuff happening early.

It's one of many things that strangely makes the game difficulty curve completely out of whack. The first 3 months are harder than any other part of the campaign, and sections of the ending are so easy they really prove no challenge at all, to say nothing of the actual ending.

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Originally Posted by easytarget

Agreed, their animations are some of the best in the game. The problem I have with them, especially in I/C, is that they are insanely accurate. So my guys end up making a bunch of wild shots with their crappy starter weapons and miss a lot of course while these guys kill off my troops one shot'ing them.

I just had a guy killed behind full cover and this thin man was not near by, and he wasn't even remotely flanking, in fact he was at an angle to the inside of the full cover which just so happened to be a large truck.

Really hard to rank guys up with this stuff happening early.

It's one of many things that strangely makes the game difficulty curve completely out of whack. The first 3 months are harder than any other part of the campaign, and sections of the ending are so easy they really prove no challenge at all, to say nothing of the actual ending.

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I agree with their frustrating level of accuracy. Actually, what I have experienced so far is that aliens in general have their accuracy increased. If you are somewhat exposed, there is no way they are missing, not even your typical home-use basic aliens. And when they do not, they splash criticals like confettis all over an award-winner.

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Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine

I agree with their frustrating level of accuracy. Actually, what I have experienced so far is that aliens in general have their accuracy increased. If you are somewhat exposed, there is no way they are missing, not even your typical home-use basic aliens. And when they do not, they splash criticals like confettis all over an award-winner.

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That's why Hunker Down is your friend. There are many, many situations in which Hunker Down is vastly superior to Overwatch.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

That's why Hunker Down is your friend. There are many, many situations in which Hunker Down is vastly superior to Overwatch.

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When half cover makes you frown: It's time to Hunker Down.

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Originally Posted by easytarget

I just had a guy killed behind full cover and this thin man was not near by, and he wasn't even remotely flanking, in fact he was at an angle to the inside of the full cover which just so happened to be a large truck.

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Thin Men are the Xenos version of your snipers. They have great accuracy no matter the situation and have good crit chance. I find that when i approach them with this mind set they are much less annoying to deal with.

Thin Men have 75 aim on Classic+. So even in Hardcover you will get hit once per 3 shots, for 4-6 damage (6-9 critical). Taking a potshot fight with Thinmen early on is one of the best ways to get wiped with no real chance to win. You either have to outflank them, heavily outgun them or explode them along with their cover. Incidently MECs do all three of those quite admirably. Having one on the 17 Thinmen council mission makes it a lot smoother.

On Impossible, Sectoids also have 75 aim along with an innate 20 critical. So taking a fight hardcover to hardcover gives you 25% to hit with 10% crit, vs their 35% chance to hit and 20% crit which can be buffed to 45% crit with Mindmerge. Also Merge heals 1 health. Potshot duels are completely unwinnable from day 1. You must cower like the Cowman said - Hunker Down while repositioning in hard cover is vital as this move grants you 80 defense. For some reason the aliens will take 0% shots at you at times instead of just Overwatching, but be mindful that if the aliens are close enough they will get range-bonuses to hit and can hit soldiers even in Hunker Down. Lost 2 Hunkered rookies on my 2nd mission to what I believe was a 10% and a 20% shot at close range from the last two Sectoids on the map. Blerh.

And finally a little whine-story: After finally stabilizing and getting 2 months into the game I was left with everyone in medcare except my Sniper for an abduction mission, so I took one of my 3 Squaddie Heavies along with 3 rookies to do a little training. First round triggers 2 rooftop-Sectoid and 6 Floaters, killing 2 rookies before they ever got a chance to shoot an alien. Through some insane luck I managed to stabilize and clear all of the map bar 1 group, but my only survivor by then was my corporal Sniper, who had earned a promotion for his modest 10 kills that mission. The reward was panic reduction and a sergeant Sniper, which I heavily lacked, so I decided to take on the last group with just my Sniper. I manage to activate them from a rooftop that has heavy cover, giving me a real fighting chance against those two 6-hp aliens. I first thought they were Thinmen and kind of freaked. Turns out they were Seekers...

ANANDA GUPTA! JAKE SOLOMON! WHY? Had to bail the mission! I have never bailed a mission before! My Sniper got out in time, but... goodbye reward-Sniper and goodbye Canada :(