Sorceror 17er Game Thread

Also it's past 1am so g'night. I'll be up again closer to EOD.

benneh ender katze sunbae (ladd)

very opposed to any of these people today aorn

Moderator note: For purposes of full transparency, Monstrdude has been tempbanned from the thread until I confer with Visor. We should (hopefully) come to a full resolution in time for EOD.

Do not respond to or interact with this post, play nice, have a good time, etc etc.

Hi I took the promise of a chill game too literally and didn't spend any time on this yesterday

I'm here now though for my classic catch up and dip

Is it possible to iso people here because i don't seem to be able to can it

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Originally Posted by Dobby

Is it possible to iso people here because i don't seem to be able to can it

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Go to the forum page and click on the number of posts in this thread. A popup window with ISO links should appear.

Attachment 25406

im just kind of freeform working through reads right now on ppl i havent talked much about, going to drop what i have so far

zack: my impression of zack as ive been reading the game is that his posts have been a good blend of lighthearted humor and solving and i tend to associate that more with villagers, its a thing thats had for wolves, they usually end up either overly jokey or overly serious. i dont really vibe with his reads but the explanations have been decently plausible to me

on rereading his iso theres nothing that necessarily stands out as brilliantly towny to me so this is largely a gut feel read but i think hes all right for now

nebjiamn: with most of the posts he makes i just get the solid impression the dude is solving. early tryhardy thing was decent but he hasnt really let up since then. stuff like #322 is like, okay this is a pretty intricate thought process or #591 where hes really getting in and analyzing newcomb, and the posts where hes questioning cape feel like a legit attempt to solve his alignment. i think ben is very likely to be a villager.

csargo: hasnt had many posts, but just kind of feels like a non-tryhardy villager doig his own thing. the zeroing in on montmorency makes sense in how people as villagers tend to focus more on solving people theyre familiar with. its enough for a townlean.

katze: i havent had thoughts on katze but the way she expressed her read on newcomb feels at least decently likely to be a real read to me, theres believable reasoning behind it and the way shes pestering about it feels like shes sunk her teeth into something she believes in and wont let go. i think in general i tend to view someone suspecting a...high degree of difficulty target as usually being a villager. also think the reflexive "contrarian for the sake of being contrarian" interrogation of ender in #368 feels villagy, playing the uno reverse card on cuth in #414 i like because it shows wanting to hold him accountable and try to make him produce opinions rather than simply asking good questions. in general i think katze has been pretty all right so far, i know shes a good wolf but i havent found anything sus about her.

Sunbae: so far i feel like sunbae has been the player in the game whos had the most similar perspective to me, woring from memory at least. i know people made a big deal about his first post about not knowing the setup and were like "omg fake" to it, whuch is kind of a funny thing to me - i feel like mafia players are reflexively primed to call derps fake even though the rario of real derps to fake derps is pretty high, imo. i didnt personally think anything of it myself, i feel like reading too deep into that sort of thing just sends you down the rabbit hole too much. i thought his response to the early pressure was ~okay, didnt make too much of it.

i did think him adding me to a towncore with zack when i (jokingly) called zack lock town for a (very cool) pirate emoticon post was kind of weird but dont make much of it. the tripping over himself w/r/t cuth/monstr is a weird thing but sometimes villagers have weird thought processes, ive tunneled someone for walking back a read on me they couldnt back up and they flipped v, and i feel like as wolf he just makes something up to justify the read rather than walking it back?

it feels like im makign a lot of excuses for him as im writing this but im trying to shape my unquantified feelings into something substantive and my feeling is that hes not wolfy. this is the type of read i often get bit in the ass on where i shield someone just on gut but w/e its day 1

the "i think you're getting pocketed" mindset is #312 is something i see as pretty villagery. the stream of consciousness in #486 also just feels very believable and authentic to me, prob the towniest post hes made

Benneh's post #42 I took as a meme but I guess it worked to get some people into the game?

Sunbae calling themselves bad in #47 is a lie

ladd entering the game with #63 where he pops out a list of 5 reads is pretty uh let's call it impressive but my gut is poking at me to tell you i slight w lean that because it's... pretty much based on rvs stuff and dishing out reads or even a list like that feels more like "i should be in character so let me do this yeeeee". But yeah i blame my gut for this one.

EnderWiggins post #69 (nice) also had me thinking, because it's talking about how wolves usually behave early on but i feel like it's only situationally applicable and very much a "this is the consensus thought on how wolves play" but also, in a playerlist like this, pretty much everyone can just play the system and statements like that just end up being... words tbh.

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Originally Posted by Cuthillius

i think monstr might be in the category of people who approach mafia in a similar enough way to me as wolves in particular that i have a hard time actually figuring him out

i don't know who else is in that category off the top of my head but monstr is that's for sure

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https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ChubbyLeft...restricted.gif

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

Go to the forum page and click on the number of posts in this thread. A popup window with ISO links should appear.

Attachment 25406

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oh wow thanks

i also changed my profile picture but apparently i needed to change my avatar as well WEH

we good now i think

@cuthilius: what did you mean in that post? you can't read monstr because?

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

@cuthilius: what did you mean in that post? you can't read monstr because?

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@Cuthillius

zack with the wisdom in #77 tbh, i kinda also agree with his take on newcomb in #80, zack stonks looking good tbh.

cape and csargos posts regarding katzes pasta post made me giggle a little.

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Originally Posted by Sleep

the reads on him were hedged in a jokey sort of way (that i think is typical of early game and not really alignment indicative) but i assume the sentimen behind them is at least somewhat real or they wouldn't express it

well i can go into all the problems i have with the stuff he posted but i don't want to explain it just yet

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imma quote this because it was my first interaction and this post came after i last left the thread.

it really rubs me the wrong way (im using english expressions that ive heard but never used so be nice to me if i write weird stuff). They weren't really hedgy, and the "i'll explain later" is usually also code words for "i won't but you will all have forgotten so get dabbed on"

zack's post was this:

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Originally Posted by zack

Cape90 is probably town

I can tell by the pixels

:rtwyes:

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ender's post was this

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

I'm gonna take a vague guess on Cape town actually.

*Throws dart at board and misses*

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So, maybe, maybe i can see it re ender, but it just feels like the type of read you make that looks good until someone actually looks into it, idk might be me overdoing it (look im being hedgy :wowee: )

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

:bullseye: better emotes
:bullseye: better multiquote function
:bullseye: chill games where people aren't mad at everyone by mid day 1 for daring to wolf read them


the org goat

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this post made me laugh smh. (org goat :bow:)

its so tempting to click the edit post and bold those names :(

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

I kind of want to <drop the shield> on Dobby for day 1 just due to the fact that I think they've been forced to be on the defensive a lot early in recent games and it's caused both struggles in getting rolling and lack of enjoyment from being in that position all the time. I also think Dobby is the type of player that can be a big boon if we let him get settled down some.

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aaaaa

So, for those who don't know. I can't read Sunbae really, and Sunbae ends up pocketing me in every game we play. Like, the big I trust you with everytihng i have, and then I get played. Posts like this is why. I have been hating d1 in my most recent games, which are basically all mashes, because I've been getting shit for just being absent (work, life, stuff) majority of d1 and then being 10k posts behind and I actively choose to not read back and try to make up reads so i look good, rather than just start from wherever i join the game and hope to be an assett later on in the games. And this is the type of thing I expect nobody to notice at all but myself, because, why would they?

So like, this is word by word exactly the post that makes me go take me im yours (not in a nasty way) but it's Sunbae so it scares me and gives me ptsd tbh

dammit sunbae

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Originally Posted by Dobby

zack with the wisdom in #77 tbh, i kinda also agree with his take on newcomb in #80, zack stonks looking good tbh.

cape and csargos posts regarding katzes pasta post made me giggle a little.



imma quote this because it was my first interaction and this post came after i last left the thread.

it really rubs me the wrong way (im using english expressions that ive heard but never used so be nice to me if i write weird stuff). They weren't really hedgy, and the "i'll explain later" is usually also code words for "i won't but you will all have forgotten so get dabbed on"

zack's post was this:



ender's post was this



So, maybe, maybe i can see it re ender, but it just feels like the type of read you make that looks good until someone actually looks into it, idk might be me overdoing it (look im being hedgy :wowee: )

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Well Sleep did come back to it. (I disagree about the read though but hey, he is better than me :p)

Personally these two posts you quoted felt different, like Zack's one is clearly a gut read (hightlighted by jokey comment on the pixels) while the second looks like more cautiously crafted, made to be able to pivot out of it. "vague guess" is already a weird wording, but adding "*Throws dart at board and misses*" feels wolfy to me.

I don't know how to express it but Zack's read feels carelessly outed, Ender's one not.

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Originally Posted by Dobby

imma quote this because it was my first interaction and this post came after i last left the thread.

it really rubs me the wrong way (im using english expressions that ive heard but never used so be nice to me if i write weird stuff). They weren't really hedgy, and the "i'll explain later" is usually also code words for "i won't but you will all have forgotten so get dabbed on"

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ur in for a surprise

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Originally Posted by Monstrdude

This is the second time I've seen you with Zack at the bottom of your reads in a game we've been in together. You like to do this often or just specific to those to games? (The other was representative democracy)

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in contrast to other players in my lists, zack's angelity and pimpsomeness are not necessarily reflective of his townfullness or scumiosity

there are more sophisticated and disturbing formulae in play here - truths writ between lines that no sane human can or should ever hope to separate

Winston, is it OK if I TR you because you posted that joke about you wife?

maybe im a sucker for recency bias but i think both rask and dobbys catchups have felt towny so far

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Because I don't think Cuth/Monstr work together

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https://c.tenor.com/_hC2uFXOPgAAAAAM...d-it-crowd.gif

(smh baffled on associative reads based on a lockwolf that early)

morning

skimmed a catchup, main impression is that raskol is like, a league above the last time i played with him (swag city, he was mafia) so he's probs a villager

skipped the newcomb wolfcase because i'm kinda leaning towards not killing him today even if i think he has high enough mafia equity, for #raisins

also now that the game ended i was hosting a sorc17 on MU and cape was p largely suspected in the earlygame for iffy reasons and imo was super villagery on the day he died, mbe he was townier cuz he had a vest buuuuuut it's part of why i also kinda dont wanna kill him today either

except my vote is apparently still on him

unvote: Cape90

ill figure out where it goes later

benneh's post #128 is similar to the thoughts i just expressed on Sleep, but for kind of similar reasons


By the way sorry for the pbp catchup thing i'm doing, i know it's clogging up the thread but i'm trying to make it so it consists of like, relevant stuff.

i don't like the robotic read thing on newcomb because i feel like it's a bit too simple to use as a v read thing (see p#130)

again benneh echoing my thoughts in p#131

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

Yeah I can. He feels stilted, like his content is forced, and that he's struggling to get into the groove of the game.
I tend to ego solve and compare what people are doing to what I'd be doing in their positions. This would tangentially apply to cape as well tbh:
If I were a wolf in this player list I'd be extremely concerned with making the towniest posts I could make and trying to fit in with the overall flow of the game so as not to get caught out immediately. Unfortunately when I do that I tend to be really obvs a wolf as I'm basically trying too hard. Ender (and Cape) feel like they're trying too hard.

The downside to ego solving is that other people are not me (I know, this is a shocking revelation) and don't necessarily react to things the same way I would. This isn't stopping me from making the read.



And before someone asks, my "no chop" vote is totally legit. This is a player list I am going to struggle to read and seeing who dies over night if we don't chop anyone might help in solving. Otherwise I'm likely going to just sheep someone I town read that I perceive is smarter than I am, or be on some weird vanity wagon at the end of the day.
So I figured I'd throw out not chopping as an option, see what people think of that, and go from there.

and yeah I'm being serious

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my thoughts on this is also a tough thing to explain but i feel like there's actually some weight to it.

it's easy to get like, tunnelled in your approach of reading someone, almost confbiasing. Like. Okay, first thing i think when i read ender's post is just this, he does seem to try to force out content, and then i can easily poop out words that add to the initial case i made to make it have some weight to it. This type of read is also... Easily fakeable. It's a tool i use as a wolf, because it's an easy way to play as mafia that looks really towny, and like you've done WORK, and it's a really hard thing to identify as wolfy and push. I feel like this whole post smells of that kind of thing. Add to it the last segment which kind of is a bit hedgy to cover for eventualities where Ender who based on what i've seen now, might very well be an early chop.

So yeah my thoughts on Ender aorn if i'm trying to decide if he's faking it or it's a personality/style of playing thing, is that it seems genuine enough for now and because of it being impossible (unless you know him really well, which i don't but also lolmeta) to judge which one it is, it's also something that a legit read shouldn't be based on. And the read HK is making here is making me :fry: way more tbh.

im not gonna tldr that because it was hard enough to word and prolly still doesnt make sense.

I think monstr is fairly clearly town (i isod him out of curiosity ofc) but i dont want to talk any more about him unless he comes back or smth.


kat's post p#144 is weh as well, specifically the "if alive past d1 then :fry:", because it feels out of character and also the addendums make it a non-read tbh, idk lol i can't wrap my head around it.

i agree with like half of ladd's reads in p#151

p#158 is a cheap read from me but i don't think sunbae makes this specific type of post as wolf but i also know it's a me strat as wolf to look towny and i did it in the previous games that sunbae mentioned as well (i was town) meaning like, they're well aware of it being a tool to make people go "hey this is towny" so i take it all back, this post is nai :wowee:

i feel like most of these things im writing would lead to some cool discussion if i didnt write them a day after which is kinda sad.


just some comments on p#181 - townies can be wolfy, in fact, they're usually more wolfy than wolves if they're sorta experienced imo :p And like, looking at the post, it's not.... trying to evaluate the alignment of cape. It's trying to make a case on why cape is wolfy. And that's. Not wolfy (kekw) per se, but it's definitely something that I want to point out to Sleep so that if they're ACTUALLY trying to solve, i'd like a post naming "good" things cape has done as well, because I'm sure you'll find some.

I'm interpreting most of what you say in different ways, and it's kind of... idk, similar to the thoughts on hollowkatt i wrote above. It's too ambitiously trying to do something that falls flat because it's just too extreme in one direction. Sure, town tunnels are definitely a thing, but this, at this stage is a bit wut for me.


i've been doing a lot of dobby mafia theorizing here but there's also something to say about a playstyle where you throw out sus in a lot of directions/being the aggressor, leads to you automatically getting a central role in the direction the game takes, rather than being one taking a defensive stance. This is best done by doing it in a discrete manner. Like, if i bake in one sentence implying i've got my eyes on person x, without making it a full-blown push, person x will be more inclined to show why they're town to please the other player, and it automatically lifts the "discrete aggressor" to a bit higher role in the game hierarchy.

@Sleep: why? (what did u find towny?)
@katze: well not having JC using each of his posts to call me a wolf here makes my life easier :hide: why did u want to kill cape earlier?

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

Well Sleep did come back to it. (I disagree about the read though but hey, he is better than me :p)

Personally these two posts you quoted felt different, like Zack's one is clearly a gut read (hightlighted by jokey comment on the pixels) while the second looks like more cautiously crafted, made to be able to pivot out of it. "vague guess" is already a weird wording, but adding "*Throws dart at board and misses*" feels wolfy to me.

I don't know how to express it but Zack's read feels carelessly outed, Ender's one not.

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yeah they're different, but neither falls under what sleep is stating i think.

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Originally Posted by Sleep

ur in for a surprise

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poggies

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

@Sleep: why? (what did u find towny?)
@katze: well not having JC using each of his posts to call me a wolf here makes my life easier :hide: why did u want to kill cape earlier?

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i'll probably get to it but is sleep jc? because then a lot of what i just wrote is not accurate anymore

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Originally Posted by Sleep

ehh, how often do you see a wolf who notices their teammate made a wolfy post, notices no one calling it out, and then makes it a point to draw attention to the post but also not push on it? it's really written in a way where he's positioned to get credit off a motnmorency w flip. not saying its impossible, but i dont really see it

but im also just not going to get deep into worldbuiding on day 1, too many conditionals and the whole thing falls apart if ur wrong on one person

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mafia is basically a game of egos and i could write 10 posts about why i think a specific post of yours is wolfy and i'll bet that maximum 2 people would open up that post and read it and associated interactions and try to see if my approach to the post makes sense. It's basically a freebie for later stages if your teammate dies

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Originally Posted by Dobby

i'll probably get to it but is sleep jc? because then a lot of what i just wrote is not accurate anymore

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nope (imo). I don't think he claimed but I am 99.99% sure of who he is

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Originally Posted by Dobby

kat's post p#144 is weh as well, specifically the "if alive past d1 then :fry:", because it feels out of character and also the addendums make it a non-read tbh, idk lol i can't wrap my head around it..

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i think ur reading that post wrong

it's like, i typically try to avoid pushing/publicly strongly suspecting certain players on D1 because like. ladd replied to it earlier and said my treatment of newcomb was similar to my treatment of him in the poisoner game we were v/v in, i think its close enough. i thought ladd was wolfy D1 of that game but didn't reallllly say too much about it beyond a few offhanded comments, i think at one point i flat out admitted i was pretending to townread him

and then he died n1

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

@Sleep: why? (what did u find towny?)
@katze: well not having JC using each of his posts to call me a wolf here makes my life easier :hide: why did u want to kill cape earlier?

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fair enough with jc, lmao

still think the gap is noticeable

also i never explicitly wanted cape dead i just jumped on the wagon to see what'd happen (was in response to sleeps case which i found compelling enough to apply pressure to the cape 90)

only dobby and benneh are allowed to open this spoiler

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

hehe poopoo

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Originally Posted by Newcomb

I think this is the part where I'm supposed to say something like, "Katze's the kind of player who lacks the testicular fortitude to poke at me like this as a wolf."

https://c.tenor.com/OoUxaidX2q0AAAAM...ise-doakes.gif

Vote: Katze

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i really want to say the katze focus on newcomb is really weird (especially with the hedgy, for me questionable stuff i pointed out earlier) and kinda wolfy in itself, but lets see how it evolves i guess

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Originally Posted by katze

i think ur reading that post wrong

it's like, i typically try to avoid pushing/publicly strongly suspecting certain players on D1 because like. ladd replied to it earlier and said my treatment of newcomb was similar to my treatment of him in the poisoner game we were v/v in, i think its close enough. i thought ladd was wolfy D1 of that game but didn't reallllly say too much about it beyond a few offhanded comments, i think at one point i flat out admitted i was pretending to townread him

and then he died n1




fair enough with jc, lmao

still think the gap is noticeable

also i never explicitly wanted cape dead i just jumped on the wagon to see what'd happen (was in response to sleeps case which i found compelling enough to apply pressure to the cape 90)

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i think thats how i interpreted that post though

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

poopoo indeed

btw do i need to hyperlink to make the postnums link the actual post because thats not going to happen

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

Winston, is it OK if I TR you because you posted that joke about you wife?

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no, absolutely not

:girlslap:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

i think thats how i interpreted that post though

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

poopoo indeed

btw do i need to hyperlink to make the postnums link the actual post because thats not going to happen

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well you specifically said "if alive past d1 then :fry:" which i dont really think is accurate but i might have just misread what you read that as (since i thought you thought i was saying 'if theyre alive d2 they're mafia')

it's more like, in most games if newcomb is in the playerlist and is town then hes p fuckin likely to die n1, if i suspect him d1 then it's arguably counterintuitive for me to really talk about because like. he's probably dying if im wrong and say nothing but if im wrong and tunnel it then it might just warp the game around us in a way that's really bad for the game

idk, it's a thing i do most games so i don't rly care if you agree or disagree with it

also yeah i think u need to hyperlink to get the effective same as typing p#[num] on MU

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Originally Posted by Newcomb

Not a super impactful read but I do think if cape = w and especially if zack also= v then Sleep's like never ever a wolf. Being the second person to jump on this stuff after zack, while showing a pretty big awareness of cape's position in the thread - especially that zack kind of jokey townread him - gives him like the perfect ultra sweet opportunity to double down on a bus or pre-bus, instead he's got a very natural post here where he's more focused on the reactions to cape instead of laying out the problems he has with the post. As w/w with cape here he's really really gonna want those problems on the record, and not as like the 4th or 5th person to jump on it.

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would be very ballsy to post that as w/w yes but if youre referring to the big wall case thing as natural etc then nah i kinda strongly disagree

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

Winston, is it OK if I TR you because you posted that joke about you wife?

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also, it wasn't a joke

and... oh shit she's reading over my shoulder

everybody hide

:creep:

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

no, absolutely not

:girlslap:

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correct answer Mr McDuke :bow:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

also, it wasn't a joke

and... oh shit she's reading over my shoulder

everybody hide

:creep:

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tell her i said hi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

also, it wasn't a joke

and... oh shit she's reading over my shoulder

everybody hide

:creep:

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yeah but it made me laugh because we are in for the same joyfull moments (she is still around right?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by katze

well you specifically said "if alive past d1 then :fry:" which i dont really think is accurate but i might have just misread what you read that as (since i thought you thought i was saying 'if theyre alive d2 they're mafia')

it's more like, in most games if newcomb is in the playerlist and is town then hes p fuckin likely to die n1, if i suspect him d1 then it's arguably counterintuitive for me to really talk about because like. he's probably dying if im wrong and say nothing but if im wrong and tunnel it then it might just warp the game around us in a way that's really bad for the game

idk, it's a thing i do most games so i don't rly care if you agree or disagree with it

also yeah i think u need to hyperlink to get the effective same as typing p#[num] on MU

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Quote:

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the post is serious despite a majority of it being a copypasta - i suspect newcomb atm and my general approach to players like newcomb (the first line) is to ignore that for at least day 1 becasue they're likely to be NKed by wolves if town+townread - but uh. when i look at the playerlist it's like 90% players who that'd apply to so i'm kind of uncomfortable with it

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you state it yourself that because of the playerlist it's kind of a null argument, aren't you? also squeezing in the part about the pasta feels like, idk, i have a hard time seeing how you're trying to make a serious argument out of this

gonna take a break from the thread to make dinner etc... so you won't enjoy my impactful posts for a while. For reference, I am wanna vote within {Ender/Sunbae/Monty} rn. Not sure I posted about Sunbae already but can maybe expand later.

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

I guess my biggest issue with NewComb is absolutely the way his reads don't seem to stick at all.

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I don't understand what this means

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Originally Posted by Dobby

you state it yourself that because of the playerlist it's kind of a null argument, aren't you? also squeezing in the part about the pasta feels like, idk, i have a hard time seeing how you're trying to make a serious argument out of this

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(yes thats the point thats why im willing to push on newcomb d1) dont think this argument will help either of us, so fair enough

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

the latter

I would not dare converse with you in anything other than the highest quality Spongebob gifs

https://i.imgur.com/6V4k9uj.gif

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i hate that this made me laugh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

just some comments on p#181 - townies can be wolfy, in fact, they're usually more wolfy than wolves if they're sorta experienced imo :p And like, looking at the post, it's not.... trying to evaluate the alignment of cape. It's trying to make a case on why cape is wolfy. And that's. Not wolfy (kekw) per se, but it's definitely something that I want to point out to Sleep so that if they're ACTUALLY trying to solve, i'd like a post naming "good" things cape has done as well, because I'm sure you'll find some.

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i mean, hm, that is more or less true to an extent. the thing is, im a very instinctual/gutty player who atruggles with more in-depth analysis, when i do something like that im trying to express the things that pinged mein an explicable form. i believe that direct pressure is a useful tool for reading people, because it forces reactions both from the person being pressured and other observers. i think if the read is expressd in a tepid, half-hearted way ("oh it's just a gut read"), that is significantly more likely to get ignored and i dont want to be ignored.

now the danger of pushing so aggressively like this is getting confirmation biased, and im well aware of that, ive fallen into that trap many times before. so sort of recognize what ur saying to me here. however, i dont really want to...force myself into looking at his posts and telling myself how they could be villagery. what i am doing is trying to question him and see if i can find reasoning that seems villagy from him, and remaining open to hearing the perspective of others who are reading him as a villager, and trying to understand why. right now im about to take a look at his iso in the game katze mentioned to see if its simiar (altho i have grumbles about meta i wont get into here)

im not going to lie, i still find a lot of the stuff hes done wolfy but right now im in the process of broadening my view of the game rather than continuing to harp on cape

cape in this other sorc games seems less awkward/more solvey even early on, he has real meat to his posts that im not really getting here, i am tunneled ig, im not going to keep harping on it tho

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cuthillius

i'm very comfortable with calling cape strong v at this point and just making sure to look back in a day or two

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i kinda agree with this fwiw and i think cuth's posts have looked pretty towny for cuth

Quote:

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Originally Posted by katze

👍

currently thinking it's best for both of you (@EnderWiggin primarily) to focus on other avenues than eachother

ender: i think HK is p villagery and think your read on him is... it kinda feels like you feel obligated to have A Read there in a similar vein to how i feel when i play with 1-2 FoLers in a playerlist? i dunno. i think you're wrong, and it's souring my view on you



fair enough?, i won't bother speculating further then and if i read you wrong ill blame it on you secretly being some elite player 😹


@Newcomb:

i'm not so much interested in like... convincing you that you're a wolf, nor am i interested in you convincing me that i'm a wolf. obviously that's not going to go anywhere regardless of either of our alignments.

my main reason for asking you to engage with that read more was... well, two reasons, one is selfish and preflippy. the other being that i want you to lay it all out at once and i want to read it and see if i Believe that you Genuinely Wolfread Me? i don't intend on really extending it beyond me feeling that out. i don't want it to, nor do i plan to let it really eat up the thread



i assume this is referring to post 221, maybe 144 if you want to stretch that phrasing to the limit, but idk bout that one. regardless: yeah, sure. i think it's a stylistic thing, i kinda disagree with this being A Wolftell?, and i know that isn't rly a productive argument either.

however, #159 exists, and i think that is very much so the opposite of that? from reading your response to me i'm not really surprised you never directly address that post, but i'd still like you to?

and while i'm at that, to further clarify post 221: i made that post because every post you had made on that page just... either felt surface level or hedgy or a bit of both in ways i continued to dislike from you. your two post response to hollowkatt was what sealed the deal for me, because your response to the no-execute proposal just felt insanely exaggerated (and also missed one of the bigger problems with voting no-exe) while your next post legitimately looks word for word like a post i wrote in my first mafia game ever lol. plus the two hollowkatt posts you're replying to are basically next to eachother and replying to both separately is kinda weh but i concede that this is p likely to be NAI

and yeah i could say all of this in post 221 but that's not rly how i roll and i also kind of wanted a sanity check more than anything else and if someone was like "yeah i agree" and then listed what i said in the above paragraph i'd be like "damn that's just a villager" and probably ride that clear for the entire game.



yeah i mean, i already flat out said that i am 100% not a wolf who'd tremble in fear seeing your name in the playerlist, and i strongly doubt you don't know that given... awkwardly motions towards the finale

but meh. part of what i said earlier to zack(iirc) was that i feel like you're relying on things that are Technically True Objectively. i read this line from you and i'm like "yeah regardless of his alignment this is probably true!" and that doesn't fill me with much confidence wrt you genuinely believing you've (as a villager) caught me in some act as opposed to me fitting a preconceived notion that you (as a wolf) can make approximately fit, i guess



for the time being i'm pretty much entirely willing to discount w/w

i personally think it's very likely v on sleeps side, i think it's a particular kind of village nitpickiness and i personally don't really think it comes from the mindset of "a wolf who is trying to bury a villager"... i typed out a few reasons why but i realize that at this stage of the game i don't really think anyone would ever write a wallpost along the lines of "cape is 100% lack woalf and all of these small things are damning and never done by villagers, lmao"

still believe it's pretty likely to come from a villa tho, and if sleep does end up flipping mafia i'd assume one or two of his bros at the least were already under heat and the cape case was a way to divert it or keep himself out of the fire. or both.

so that leaves v/v or v(sleep)/w(cape). personally i don't think cape has been very villagery, partially due to meta reasons - it's something i don't really feel like pursuing strongly today though because i think cape is like, blindingly villagery as town after a few phases.

i don't really know what the ~threadstate~ would look like in any of these worlds, that's not really something i'm great at and i feel like the mafia roles aren't particularly important so it's not like mafia are obligated to like, hard defend their vig or something.

my current take is that it's v/v > v(sleep)/w(cape)>>>>>w(sleep)/v(cape)>>>>>>>>w/w

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kat wrote a wall and that makes me want to instinctively townread it

but it's a decent wall, especially the part about #221 does help me see where kat is coming from, i just have an issue with like "i dislike every post" because. yea.h

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

would be very ballsy to post that as w/w yes but if youre referring to the big wall case thing as natural etc then nah i kinda strongly disagree

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I'm not, I was referring to 119 which is a short response to you.

I don't think the wall was at all natural, that's my issue with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

@Sleep: why? (what did u find towny?)

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gut! im sorry thats an underwhelming answer but the general feel was ah hm okay, these are thoughts i can see a villager having

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

i kinda agree with this fwiw and i think cuth's posts have looked pretty towny for cuth

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can u give me a little more on this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sleep

i mean, hm, that is more or less true to an extent. the thing is, im a very instinctual/gutty player who atruggles with more in-depth analysis, when i do something like that im trying to express the things that pinged mein an explicable form. i believe that direct pressure is a useful tool for reading people, because it forces reactions both from the person being pressured and other observers. i think if the read is expressd in a tepid, half-hearted way ("oh it's just a gut read"), that is significantly more likely to get ignored and i dont want to be ignored.

now the danger of pushing so aggressively like this is getting confirmation biased, and im well aware of that, ive fallen into that trap many times before. so sort of recognize what ur saying to me here. however, i dont really want to...force myself into looking at his posts and telling myself how they could be villagery. what i am doing is trying to question him and see if i can find reasoning that seems villagy from him, and remaining open to hearing the perspective of others who are reading him as a villager, and trying to understand why. right now im about to take a look at his iso in the game katze mentioned to see if its simiar (altho i have grumbles about meta i wont get into here)

im not going to lie, i still find a lot of the stuff hes done wolfy but right now im in the process of broadening my view of the game rather than continuing to harp on cape

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That makes sense, and i recognise myself a lot in that as well. Issue for me is that when i read that kind of post it becomes more of a "this is either someone intentionally not trying to solve, or theyve just written a big fat wall confbiasing which i will only read to make up my mind on the one that wrote it, and not to be affected by the actual contents of it"

Quote:

---

however, i dont really want to...force myself into looking at his posts and telling myself how they could be villagery. what i am doing is trying to question him and see if i can find reasoning that seems villagy from him, and remaining open to hearing the perspective of others who are reading him as a villager, and trying to understand why.

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the issue with this for me is that you make it sort of... a backwards way of solving the game? It's like if i said Sleep is wolf, i'm 100% sure prove me wrong and it's... not a way of solving that makes sense to me, but i mean, i accept that it exists i guess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Newcomb

I'm not, I was referring to 119 which is a short response to you.

I don't think the wall was at all natural, that's my issue with it.

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ah that makes way more sense

vote: raskolnikov

also hi dobby <3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sleep

can u give me a little more on this?

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imma throw GUT right back at ya here :P

But honestly, the content and the approach to the game is mainly what stands out. It's hard to exactly put my finger on, but posts like #79, #222, #256, and recently in my catchp 460 and 463 and just... authentic/geniune flow to them which I think is less prominent in his wolfing. His posts are not packed with content but it's enough to make me feel like yeah he's keeping track of stuff and progressing things in his way. He is one of my stronger townreads (i hadnt gotten to 460/463 when i wrote that post fwiw) tbh

meh idk on cape :wall:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

is it crazy if I say this feels like a w/w interaction? :crazy:

this is weaksauce for two people who supposedly suspect the other

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just skimming rask posts, i think he believes in them and they're genuine thoughts but i dont like agree with a fair few of them though

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

see, this is the kind of sequence I like

it shows that he was thinking about the game and people's alignments behind the scenes, and was able to quickly prove it with receipts. Didn't make some grandiose post(s) in the thread announcing his switch on Cuth, but gave a solid earthy explanation of what changed his read when asked.

that said if cuth is a wolf it maybe looks bad for cape

like I said earlier, I could be wrong on Cape but he keeps posting thiings that I find villagy and I'm not seeing the issue with his posts

:creep:

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the receipts are like... emojis, and talk about his wife, come on

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

just skimming rask posts, i think he believes in them and they're genuine thoughts but i dont like agree with a fair few of them though



the receipts are like... emojis, and talk about his wife, come on

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wait that was zack not rask, i was trolled by the yellowish pics

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

the issue with this for me is that you make it sort of... a backwards way of solving the game? It's like if i said Sleep is wolf, i'm 100% sure prove me wrong and it's... not a way of solving that makes sense to me, but i mean, i accept that it exists i guess.

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idk, maybe i am not making myself clear here, i really do find him sus, i continue to find the stuff he says sus, but i am aware of the possibility i could be wrong (as i often am). i really am continuing to evaluate his posts tho and i think outside perspective on him is more valuable than, like, forcing my thinking into a particular mold

like if i wanted to keep hammering on it i could say i dont like his wolfreads either but im sure no one wants to hear it! so im doing other stuff

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladd

I read a couple of monty games on this forums and he seems to have no problems posting as a wolf. can the orgers elaborate on why they think he is a wolf from his 3 posts?

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less verbose, less content about the game, and just sort of here but not doing anything. It's not like absolute 100% a woof, because any number of things could be happening. I just want to see if Monty shows up and does anything, and my vote there seems good at the present.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

just skimming rask posts, i think he believes in them and they're genuine thoughts but i dont like agree with a fair few of them though



the receipts are like... emojis, and talk about his wife, come on

---

???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

???

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you are rask now



imma post a List ina bit but apparently i need to go to church to save my soul so

I think we need to start talking about consolidating.

Who's actually likely to go over today?

1. zack
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
4. Ladd
5. Winston Hughes
6. Raskolnikov
7. Newcomb
8. Csargo
9. EnderWiggin
10. Sunbae
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
13. monstrbro
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt

Zack no, bennah... probably not though I can't off the top of my head recall anyone strongly reading bennah one way or another.

Cuth, probably not, some strong voices townread.

Ladd... interesting but I don't realistically think that's ever happening D1 here.

Winston... could see this being a LHF compromise type thing I guess? Possible.

Rask, possible

Me, not happening

Csargo, maaaaybe but kind of a long shot IMO

Ender, maybe

Sunbae, probably not happening

Monte, sure

Dobby, jury's out, see how people react to the catchup. I tend to think not.

Monster, uhhhh yeah moving on

Katz, probably not happening

Sleep, would probably be the spiciest D1 lynch that's actually on the table.

Cape, not actually sure. Can't recall what thread sentiment is on this guy.

HK, outside shot maybe

That leaves us with what, Winston/Rask/Monte as the "taking the easy way out" type options, with Monte being like the pure shot in the dark. and the two C names, Ender, and outside shot of Sleep/HK as the more information heavy but harder kills?

Does that roughly match other people's takes on thread sentiment? Open question. Feels like it's about time to get the ball rolling though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

imma throw GUT right back at ya here :P

But honestly, the content and the approach to the game is mainly what stands out. It's hard to exactly put my finger on, but posts like #79, #222, #256, and recently in my catchp 460 and 463 and just... authentic/geniune flow to them which I think is less prominent in his wolfing. His posts are not packed with content but it's enough to make me feel like yeah he's keeping track of stuff and progressing things in his way. He is one of my stronger townreads (i hadnt gotten to 460/463 when i wrote that post fwiw) tbh

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fair enuf! i feel like we have very different views of the game but i respect the meta familiarity perspective ur coming from here

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

meh idk on cape :wall:

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aye

unvote

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Newcomb

Winston... could see this being a LHF compromise type thing I guess? Possible.

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:deal:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Newcomb

Does that roughly match other people's takes on thread sentiment? Open question. Feels like it's about time to get the ball rolling though.

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forget the consolidation talk - who do you actually want to kill?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

:deal:

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Sorry man lol. Just reading the tea leaves, not saying anything about you as a player.

some people i had townie have been looking scummier

some people i had scummy have been looking townier

most of you are pretty much null right now

i'm not sure i know how to play this game anymore

:titanic:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sleep

forget the consolidation talk - who do you actually want to kill?

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Hmmm, you know I'd never thought of that. I guess I'll just drop this whole thing that I was interested in and wanted to talk about, and go over something I've already talked about and am kind of bored with? Yeah that sounds like a good use of my time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Newcomb

Sorry man lol. Just reading the tea leaves, not saying anything about you as a player.

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you misunderstand me

i know exactly where i am

i'm saying bring it on

vote: Newcomb

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

i'm not sure i know how to play this game anymore

:titanic:

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https://media.giphy.com/media/iZrbMf...MNFs/giphy.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleep

vote: Newcomb

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:yes:

Vote: Hollowkatt

Vote: Hollowkatt

:creep:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

Vote: Hollowkatt

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i still like hk

can you point me to why you don't?

(and apologies for my slackness if you already did)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

i still like hk

can you point me to why you don't?

(and apologies for my slackness if you already did)

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I had some posts but am on phone now and out so won't til eod, but generally the biggest feeling of "I don't believe that this is what he believes" in the game

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

I had some posts but am on phone now and out so won't til eod, but generally the biggest feeling of "I don't believe that this is what he believes" in the game

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so it's mostly gut?