Sufjan 10er [Game Thread]

alright i need to haul ass to bed

sleep schedule ruined again in an utterly unsurprising turn of events

see y'all tomorrow

oh and also

Vote: Visor

:curtain:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ephemeral

oh and also

Vote: Visor

:curtain:

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:stare:

Im holding the hc

Gj on selling it?s not me though, i was p confident i was gonna live

I was hoping it?s not the hard game cuz this week?s been hell, i only had 1 hour or so of night reading to go with the n1 shot, this rand was brutal

I wanted to be chillin like a villain

I think the last wolf is always in visor / sunbae, leaning sunbae

I ahot ender to clear out the PoE and in case i died i wouldn?t have made a bad shot in sunbae / visor / eph and village would just turn on ender, altho i was kinda feeling like the wolf was there

Sunbae looks the worst for being the last vote on me. From wolves? PoV having to figure out at night if im the vigi or a vanillager faking it is hell - a vote when 2 other people are doing it is the perfect opportunity to get rid of the potential vig and if im the vanillager then you?re not gonna get that much heat. Imo wolves didn?t want to have to figure me out at night

If it?s eph, then i take no blame :curtain:

Hipefully im gonna have time today to read in depth to make a final decision, but these are just my gth thoughts

ender fine shot, i cant blame you for making it tbh

im surprised you read eph higher than me i think my interactions with lantana are super not partnery but ymmv

I pretty much can never clear sunbae here and he’s my vote aorn - if he’s the villager i would like to have him solve with me for the day (well i can only think about things like 10-12 hours from now, busy af)

" Imo wolves didn?t want to have to figure me out at night"

i very much understand your pov on this and dont think theres much wrong with it

just as a villager who made a really bad decision, i did it because i felt really bad about the other options (obv cause i was misclearing one of eph/sbae)

and i was trapped in my own cycle of not wanting to kill out of that, but also not wanting to kill in it

and i shouldve stepped back acknowledged my issues instead of just shitting the bed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

ender fine shot, i cant blame you for making it tbh

im surprised you read eph higher than me i think my interactions with lantana are super not partnery but ymmv

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Well tbh it’s more of a RETALIATORY PoE, like i said i really had not that much time - i had time to make some reads D1 and my few hours were enough to make the n1 shot, d2 was a mess, no time to re-read and from the time i claimed to T-4 eod or smth nobody said anything

Unlucky all around for me but i think i’ve done the absolute best i could have with my hand, plus i had some help from THE TEAM

Which way are you leaning? What is your sunbae read, in depth?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by insomnia

Well tbh it’s more of a RETALIATORY PoE, like i said i really had not that much time - i had time to make some reads D1 and my few hours were enough to make the n1 shot, d2 was a mess, no time to re-read and from the time i claimed to T-4 eod or smth nobody said anything

Unlucky all around for me but i think i’ve done the absolute best i could have with my hand, plus i had some help from THE TEAM

Which way are you leaning? What is your sunbae read, in depth?

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lol i undertand the retaliatory poe dw

im currently dodging work rn, so i don't have an answer for you right now, but i will have something for you in a few hours

its really hard for me to parse how different both players are

honestly, if sunbae is a wolf its the first time in a while ive been genuinely fooled in an earlier phase and not just making a bad reach read

but i also struggle with ephs play in that its hard to make reads based on there and im really reaching

i know thats a lot of words to say I DONT KNOW LOL

but i will have an answer one way or another for you tonight

if you really really really really had to put a gun to my head


maybe id pick eph idk.

gimme some time

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

bump, friend still asking

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Sorry bronana it?s not even about you casing me, it?s about voting me when i feel like everyone was confused whether i was the vigi or vanillager faking it

I guess if you are a villager you are confused if im the last wolf but you don?t have to worry about it, that?s vigi?s problem and if im the last wolf i never win

You can case someone but voting them when they claim vigi, putting them in a tie??

Eph, why does visor look worse than sunbae here iyo? They have both voted, but sunbae?s vote had a chance to turn the tides when wolves have to deal with a potentially very tough question going into the night: ?do i bite the bait and shoot insomnia who?s a misvote opportunity??

If i flip vanillager, they take almost no heat cuz they were correct in thinking i wasn?t vig and everyone thought it was me

If i flip vigi, the wolf has the F3 target lined up in visor / sunbae, they aren?t alone making the pro-wolf suboptimal play

Im hopeful i will have like 4 hours to stay in thread later, maybe 3 more likely

In the meantime you really have to talk it out, yesterday was a content drought (at least when i was viewing the thread)

I think if you are a villager it’s important to realize your solve still matters. I am a big believer in sheeping the villa that might take the fall in f4

And idk how good it is for us that I make the decision and you all just wait for it - if i have time to read, not having to lead and watching you solve rn + me back reading is gonna get me closer to a confident decision. But it we don’t get it right today, it’s very important the villager taking the fall makes a case both for a wolf read and town read.

To put it all into perspective, I am Brad Pitt in Moneyball, I want my players to be on base scene. Old scout full of wisdom says “Seriously guys, I think we have to remember: this is the man. He answers to no one except ownership…and God…and he doesn’t have to answer to us. We make suggestions, he makes decisions”

I am Brad Pitt, ain’t nothing personal, I was picked to be Brad Pitt, if you guys would rand vigi you’d be Brad Pitt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by insomnia

I pretty much can never clear sunbae here and he’s my vote aorn - if he’s the villager i would like to have him solve with me for the day (well i can only think about things like 10-12 hours from now, busy af)

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I think I can be cleared, I just don't think you can clear me. I don't mean that as a negative, slight, or anything. I think it just requires more experience with me than you have and more knowledge of previous games that you weren't a part of. It's on me. I pushed you for two straight days and just didn't believe you. It happens, don't sweat it. At this point I think it's pretty clear that I am going to die, that I have realized that I am going to die ("asking for a friend"), and I think talking about my alignment is a waste of our time. I'm going to spend some time this night phase figuring out which of Ephem/Visor I think it is, make my vote, and try to lay out exactly why I think it's them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

if you really really really really had to put a gun to my head


maybe id pick eph idk.

gimme some time

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It's pretty tough for me, right? I now know that the answer is in how Lan treated you and Ephem. Clearly they had no issues pushing a teammate a bit - shouldn't be surprised given how they seemed like they were used to high activity games - but I have to decide is it the one Villa Read and then Wolf Read based on Katze-said meta or if it's the one pushed near eod to go over.

If it's Ephem I have to answer the question "If the other wagons are Insomnia v, Ender v, and Taffy v, why did Lan start bussing?". That's the key for me and if I can solve that problem I'll feel much better about it. If I can't solve that question then I'll have to give a resigned "dammit visor".

I'll also probably try and view the game through both lenses and see what the wolf team was doing on day 1 in each case.

It was my impression that Lantana never really confidently called out anyone except for Visor but it was for the weird meta thing.

Now I wonder if they?ve manufactured that push to make visor look good - rationale being they shy?d away from pushing many villas until EoD, so the person they push with more #heat is more likely to be their partner cuz they wanna clear them and aren?t scared if they get sus?d for it obviously+ it was early af which gives them plenty time to change their mind

Quote:

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Originally Posted by insomnia

It was my impression that Lantana never really confidently called out anyone except for Visor but it was for the weird meta thing.

Now I wonder if they?ve manufactured that push to make visor look good - rationale being they shy?d away from pushing many villas until EoD, so the person they push with more #heat is more likely to be their partner cuz they wanna clear them and aren?t scared if they get sus?d for it obviously+ it was early af which gives them plenty time to change their mind

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they also called me socially awkward lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by insomnia

It was my impression that Lantana never really confidently called out anyone except for Visor but it was for the weird meta thing.

Now I wonder if they?ve manufactured that push to make visor look good - rationale being they shy?d away from pushing many villas until EoD, so the person they push with more #heat is more likely to be their partner cuz they wanna clear them and aren?t scared if they get sus?d for it obviously+ it was early af which gives them plenty time to change their mind

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if you fall into this trap of thinking im gonna actually be disappointed lmao

fmpov i think we are clearly not partnered, i get your pov tho i guess

The game coming down to whether or not I can correctly read into wolf spew of someone I've never played with before :fortune:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

So Visor did a sudden mood switch that pinged me I hope I can explain it properly (all quotes spoilered for length). At the start they don?t interact with the off-topic posting at all and seem intent to steer the conversation towards proper mafia play instead of shitposting:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This unsollicited read creeped me out btw, I really don?t think anyone should be able to tell the difference between a yolo villager or someone really excited to have randed wolf (and posting empty content). It felt like either a pocketing attempt or bait, and since it was 3am at that point I didn?t feel like figuring out which. I also don?t like how they later explained it both as a lazy throwaway read and as an attempt to get me posting more on-topic.

Then later Sunbae shows up (my read on Sunbae btw is ?probably town, because they described their wolf play as nefarious and slimy and none of their posts feel that way?). Sunbae explicitly says to Insomnia that they?re down to get the ball rolling on actual play, then starts a conversation about DnD with Ender, which Visor decides to hijack (and note that they still ignore Ender completely)



So... is Visor just socially awkward around new people and Sunbae the only one here they feel comfortable talking to? Are the rest of us not good enough for chit-chat? Did Ender ask to take over the conversation in wolf chat because he?s scared Sunbae will find him out?

(there were posts about actual game-related stuff inbetween the conversation that I didn?t copy, I wanted to show the difference between their posting before and after)


I also thought their response to Lantana?s vote was overly defensive. For someone who professes to be aware of how they are perceived and to purposely work towards a certain perception, that seems like an odd choice.



And then there were some very weird mindmelds that gave me pause.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is echoing my own reasoning for my initial vote.



Yes this is exactly what I meant, so if you?re town it?s appreciated.



I have never met anyone else before who felt the same way I do about voting people who aren?t present D1. It?s something that?s been discussed repeatedly on Giantitp and definitely something Ender knows.



Oh dear.

Tl,dr: I?m having a tinfoil w/w read on Visor and Ender and I?m going to hate being wrong.

Vote: Visor

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Taffy called you socially awkward, not Lan

oh right thats true

i got called word salady and whatever the other thing they said from lanata

taking it from all sides this game :shame:

Lol fmpov i was never partnered with lantana either :laugh4:

Btw don’t worry about defending yourselves, i just lay out thoughts in the thread i have for now, i still have to re-read, im just picking things accessible to think about atm with the time i have and that seem entertaining to think about, hope that makes sense

I am afraid i might actually wallpost when im in the re-reading sesh, normals turn me into something real ugly

I would kindly ask everyone to not defend themselves and instead solve wherever possible and I will also ask that you have faith everything will turn out fine by the end even if we miss today (the point of having this belief is that it will make you less likely to defend yourself perhaps) not the end of the world if we yeet wrong and if I shoot wrong that’s on me

You are not to blame if you die today, it’s me if anything. Best you can do is to feed as much info as possible so that me making the shot won’t have to be hard. If you want to towncase yourself I guess you can, but you have to think that we only have 24 hours to figure it out and if you spend a lot of it defending yourself and you die anyway, the common good gets nothing

I know it’s frustrating to get yeeted if you are villa in this scenario, but if it’s not preventable, the best thing you can do is to help the vig see the clearer view <3

I’ll be back, you’ll know when you see giant wallposts

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

The game coming down to whether or not I can correctly read into wolf spew of someone I've never played with before :fortune:

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Ya i kinda regret making that shot now lmao, i guess it’s true what they say, early wolf kills are tougher on the village

Here are the Visor/Lan interactions day 1 in an easy to parse spoiler (its for my purposes, ignore if you wnat)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

Do you think Visor was being serious and is being serious or not serious more likely to indicate alignment one way or another?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

Visorslash villager I believe. Justification to come later if I feel the same - riding the vibe for now.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

Actually on re-read I retract my v read on visor. I am told he has word salad reads more often as a villager and makes his reads more polished as a wolf, and post 59 looked word salad-y (thereby town meta). If this meta is wrong, blame Katze. That aside though.

His latest string of posting feels like a diplomatic wolf and more closely resembles someone who?s acutely aware of everything they?re posting and the optics. I think this holds true even with meta aside.

Vote visor

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

I am aware of everything I post? I don't make idle posts in ww games, even posts that seem lazy and noncontributive are done with an eye towards how I think I will be perceived, how I want to be perceived and how I need to be perceived.

Any villager worth their salt should be consider their posts.

Fascinating that katze gave meta on me, not sure they've really seen me as a wolf . Are you a foler?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

I don't see an issue with being diplomatic in 24 hours phases either, I didn't want to get into a brawl with insomnia over a misunderstanding of a post, especially because in a few hours I'll be afk till near EOD.

Whether his read on me was something he actually believed or something he thought he could push until I closed it down is something I remain uncertain of

(That all said, lol using someone else's meta interpretation to read me instead of just reading my posts)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

vote: mischief

Is where I'm thinking rn

Sunbae seems fine for right now, realistically too early to make a confident v read on him with few posts but he has ticked the right boxes for now

I like Lantana trying to use meta from someone not in the game as an earnest attempt to get me killed, might be a bad read here but I'm taking a D1 gander that they are a villa

Ender had a bit of a wonky start but I also don't think he's tried to look villagery, so I'm also putting a D1 gander there

Taffy, well I'm probably not gonna kill a new player D1, needs to re enter for me to make a read any direction

Insomnia - not even info really to make a read on

Mischief - a slight thing, but the wording of some of his posts feel a little stilted, and his reads without much commenting on the posts in between nor posing many questions is a slight negative sign

So from the posters so far, that's where I'm leaning, but I'm loathe to make a wolf read with 3 zero posters so far. I will be voting one of them if we have 2 or more at EOD, fwiw

As I write this, I'm reminded of ender constantly referring to meta to clear bluekang when we wolfed together, so it's interesting to see him try to clear me on meta (though seems to have less confidence than he did in that game and that's a good sign I think)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

vote: ephemeral

I really gotta think about that taffy read some more

Part of me just wants to village read it because it's not a super good case/weird targets but I do have a weal spot for that stuff

Raskol can you talk about Lantana a bit for me?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

Not FOL.

And naturally. It was more that I saw the word salady read in 59 and the change to not that.
So it?s not quite accurate for it to be a ?as a villager you don?t consider your posts? read at all actually.


Looking through the 100 or so posts I?ve missed now

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

Yes my posting style can change

I don't think this is something that is uncommon for ww players. I think anyone who has played with me prior in games would agree with that

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

Lantana if you want your votes to count you need to add the colon

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

Ender can you state your earlier reasons on me (again, if it was done originally...)?

OK visor, will note for next time.

Whoever is interested - just making sure there is no iso button? can't find one. won't be a problem but worth asking.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

read this:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...g-from-offsite

tells you how

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fair lmao

So now I'm going to spend the next 4 hours showing you all why I am not a wolf

[spoiler]ok im just being a little shit lol, its totally fine insomnia [/spoil]

"Yes my posting style can change

I don't think this is something that is uncommon for ww players. I think anyone who has played with me prior in games would agree with that"

villagery snark imo :curtain:

Visor,

Not to like, get super in the weeds about this cause it's small on the grand scale of things, but off the top of your head if you were a wolf would you feel obligated to v read me quickly? No long explanation needed, just a quick yes/no/context-dependent

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Visor,

Not to like, get super in the weeds about this cause it's small on the grand scale of things, but off the top of your head if you were a wolf would you feel obligated to v read me quickly? No long explanation needed, just a quick yes/no/context-dependent

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no, not at all why?

thats not saying i wouldn't do it, but i definitely don't think i would feel any obligation towards doing so

You can be mad with me, i got big heart and im STOIC

I can take it, if it helps you SOLVE after :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by insomnia

You can be mad with me, i got big heart and im STOIC

I can take it, if it helps you SOLVE after :p

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it was a shitpost dont mind me

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

no, not at all why?

thats not saying i wouldn't do it, but i definitely don't think i would feel any obligation towards doing so

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cool, cool ty

just rereading through and poking at stuff, no biggie

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ephemeral

just quickly went through stuff, found sunbae lightly villagery

ditto his sentiment about dya's entrance feeling good

not particularly enamoured with visors posts for reasons i can't find a way to articulate, but both dya and sunbae liking him is good enough for me to give him a pass till I can actually get into the headspace to dive into stuff properly

lantana has been... marginally ok

the way mischief handled his visor seems alright, #168 and the first paragraph of #173 being what i mainly refer to here, overall feel fine about the slot atm

had a good kneejerk reaction to insomnia, not conclusive by any means but would not kill d1

ender/taffy/rask is the group i feel the most meh about out of the bunch and am probably fine with voting in today

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

Not to subtly defend existing wagons, however,

Can those that are here nya about their Ephe read? I have him way more sus than insomnia at the moment

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

Sunbae
Taffy
Mischief
Dyachei
Visorslash
Raskolnikov
Enderwiggin
Ephemeral

Dyachei is probably true null which means I need to find more town reads and/or dyachei needs to be townier

I also had insomnia has my third town but I didn't wanna have him there if he's gonna flip wolf in 10 minutes nya
I def prefer Ephemeral, I can go check his posts again to confirm this (or potentially feel differently :bow:)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

poe is rask taffy ender and is confused at rask town-reading him. could be w/w too

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and the ephem/lan interactions

While you're being a doll, can you get the Lantana sunbae interactions out too :p

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ephemeral

just quickly went through stuff, found sunbae lightly villagery

ditto his sentiment about dya's entrance feeling good

not particularly enamoured with visors posts for reasons i can't find a way to articulate, but both dya and sunbae liking him is good enough for me to give him a pass till I can actually get into the headspace to dive into stuff properly

lantana has been... marginally ok

the way mischief handled his visor seems alright, #168 and the first paragraph of #173 being what i mainly refer to here, overall feel fine about the slot atm

had a good kneejerk reaction to insomnia, not conclusive by any means but would not kill d1

ender/taffy/rask is the group i feel the most meh about out of the bunch and am probably fine with voting in today

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

Not to subtly defend existing wagons, however,

Can those that are here nya about their Ephe read? I have him way more sus than insomnia at the moment

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

Sunbae
Taffy
Mischief
Dyachei
Visorslash
Raskolnikov
Enderwiggin
Ephemeral

Dyachei is probably true null which means I need to find more town reads and/or dyachei needs to be townier

I also had insomnia has my third town but I didn't wanna have him there if he's gonna flip wolf in 10 minutes nya
I def prefer Ephemeral, I can go check his posts again to confirm this (or potentially feel differently :bow:)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

poe is rask taffy ender and is confused at rask town-reading him. could be w/w too

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ignore the top, its a quote dumb cause the MQ is being wonky

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dyachei

Visor v

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by dyachei

I read his posts and he's not in his wolf meta

Idk, I can't really explain it. He's taking the game as it comes and not forcing reads imo. it's based on gut feels to a degree

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

While you're being a doll, can you get the Lantana sunbae interactions out too :p

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Sure

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

we are going to turbo you tmr :curtain:

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Nk's seem pretty uneven on you lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Nk's seem pretty uneven on you lmao

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Er I am pretty sure he was joking lol (esp with curtain)

Fairly sure he townread me all game same with dya and even blade

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

Sooooo is it always quiet on d1 here?

let's play ww!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Yeah, org emotes are GOAT. As for quiet, if you're used to the mu speeds this one will be a lot slower. I think I averaged about 75-80 posts last game and died day 3 but was in the top quarter of posters when I died. Game before that here I think I died in the 50s. Usually a much more laid back and methodical type of thread early instead of a spam fest (I'm also going to be taking it into account the feedback that I posted a bit too much in a row last game and will be trying to keep things in fewer posts, as well as some other stuff but I won't bore anyone about the finer details of my adjustments). Got a bit more active in the back half of the game but by then it's a lot fewer people so it wasn't a big difference in daily posts.

If you'd like to get the ball rolling I'm all ears. I don't have anything very interesting on my end. A slight, slight frown towards Ender for acting like/thinking that Visor's response to you + vote on Ender were related but it's so small on the grand scale of things that I doubt it'll be a relevant factor by end of day. Kinda think your eagerness to get going is a towny mindset when coupled with your initial pranking/bubbly spurt but shrug. Don't really understand the visor yolo on taffy but maybe I just had to be there. Don't think Mischief saying he has to eat is abe simpsoning?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

checks out, I?m fine with a lower volume game personally and tend to post way too much now. This will be a good lesson regardless of outcome.

Also I think a bubbly = towny description is fine for me at the moment, but I can get quite feisty just for full disclosure. As in? don?t just wolf read me if I am not a single wave bubbly nya

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

This seems towny. Surface level towny.

On second thoughts I do think a wolf is less likely to express the thought in general and just post lots for the sweet town cred.

So, cool Sunbae.


Getting some nice town reads for the situation :2thumbsup:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Current thoughts after catching up:

I'm trying to be a little more proactive this time around (my last game on MU was pretty much a non-factor and even if my reads were fine you could have replaced me with OPEN SLOT and nothing much would have changed).

Ender, Rask: I'd like to talk about the Lantana wolf reads because I've got a townread there. I thought the overnight posting once I went to sleep was fine so it's not just the bubbly/eager thing. The way they brushed off my villa read as a ?won't always be bubbly but it's fine? instead of just taking and moving on felt right? If they are a wolf and trying to pocket me (which the whole villa read of me would be) I don't know why they'd be like that. Switching Visor from townread to wolf read citing Katze-given meta was understandable if that's what you've been told. The timing of the villa read and the shift make sense under those parameters. I did circle back thinking ?oh maybe it shifted cause Visor started poking there and it's nefarious? but the change happened while Visor was talking to Insomnia about Taffy so I don't think there's anything to that? My current take is it's someone used to faster paced games and just bouncing around trying to find * something * to chat about.


Lantana: I don't think the meta you have on Visor is uh, accurate? I've always found him to be pretty self-aware regardless of alignment and I think his discussion of trying to just straighten out a misunderstanding is perfectly reasonable. I have a slight townread there for the ?whether his read on me was something he actually believed or something he thought he could push until I closed it down is something I remain uncertain of? comment about Insomnia after the misunderstanding because I think it'd be a pretty easy sport for wolf!visor to either buddy up to or lightly shade Insomnia and picking neither just doesn't seem to have an agenda to me. With the knowledge that multiple people have told you the meta read there isn't how they would do it, where's your head at on the rest of their posting?

Ender: It being a snarky response clears that up for me, ty

Regarding Mischief: I think the explanation of wanting to just post immediately to show you'll be around on a new site makes sense. I have a slight town read there for not really forcing anything and openly saying they can't really determine much else at this point in the game. My view of villager!Mischief is one that is pretty careful about finding what reads/votes they have and not pressing the matter.

I got no real thoughts about Insomnia's stint, will wait to see what Taffy says upon return before I try to formulate anything there, and want to interact with Rask/Ender more before landing on anything there as well.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Can you talk a bit about Insomnia?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

I'm still living off my take last night where he skipped RVS and got into some pretty immediate shading, I think that's more typically villagery than not, though i'll have to see how I feel about placing him against others (momentarily)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Alrighty.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

Sunbae
Taffy
Mischief
Dyachei
Visorslash
Raskolnikov
Enderwiggin
Ephemeral

Dyachei is probably true null which means I need to find more town reads and/or dyachei needs to be townier

I also had insomnia has my third town but I didn't wanna have him there if he's gonna flip wolf in 10 minutes nya
I def prefer Ephemeral, I can go check his posts again to confirm this (or potentially feel differently :bow:)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by dyachei

is lantana town?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

I think so

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thats me/lan or everytime i talk about lan to someone else

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

Er I am pretty sure he was joking lol (esp with curtain)

Fairly sure he townread me all game same with dya and even blade

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gotcha

Basically where I'm at right now is that based on interactions with the dead wolf, night kill analysis (with the curtain joke explained), my feelings during our numerous interactions, and my general feelings on "who is trying to solve the game" purposes I feel like Visor is a villager but I have to come up with an answer of "what were the wolves doing at eod1 if there are v/v/v wagons and Lan starts going at Ephem".

I am going to read that end of day under the lens of Lan/Ephem being the wolf team and will try to see if I can understand a scenario in which it makes sense. If I can, I'm going to vote Ephemeral and be done with it. If I cannot, I am going to grumble and sleep on it hoping my tomorrow brain has it click better.

im gonna eat dinner, relax for a bit, then spend 1 hr to 1.5 hours on this and thats gonna be it till eod (except for maybe minor comments).

ill be 'around' for the next 6 hours or so

At :15 the wagons are 3 ender, 3 insomnia, 1 mischief, 1 raskol.

Lan comes in with this vote:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

Vote: Ephemeral

I don't really want to kill visor today; insomnia I was fine with him (by extension raskolnikov saying I was shading insomnia is not nya).
lemme order my reads

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No other posts about Ephem are made until :40 when Lantana makes this post ?not subtly defending wagons? and asking about Ephem. The wagons are 3 Ender, 3 insomnia, 1 mischief, 1 ephemeral. The earlier Raskol vote was Lan so they just moved:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

Not to subtly defend existing wagons, however,

Can those that are here nya about their Ephe read? I have him way more sus than insomnia at the moment

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Insomnia takes a 4/3/1 lead over Ender and Ephem with 10 minutes to go. Lan makes this post talking about Insomnia already flipping:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

Sunbae
Taffy
Mischief
Dyachei
Visorslash
Raskolnikov
Enderwiggin
Ephemeral

Dyachei is probably true null which means I need to find more town reads and/or dyachei needs to be townier

I also had insomnia has my third town but I didn't wanna have him there if he's gonna flip wolf in 10 minutes nya
I def prefer Ephemeral, I can go check his posts again to confirm this (or potentially feel differently :bow:)

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With 7 minutes to go Ender votes Ephem and Lantana immediately replies they may vote Ender at eod:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

Vote: Ephemeral

Watch me pull a flash wagon out of my hat.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

I may vote you at EOD

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5 minutes to go Lan says check this wagon if people will actually listen to me:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

Alright better check this wagon again if people will actually listen to me lol

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3 minutes to go Lan starts tying Ephemeral to Rask as w/w

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lantana

poe is rask taffy ender and is confused at rask town-reading him. could be w/w too

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No more posts are made by Lan about Ephem and instead are spent talking to dya about null reads.





Under a lens of ?what is going on if they are w/w? I think I have a solution: The wagons are all villagers and Lan starts some small distancing. They don't expect anyone to listen to them (hence the ?if people are actually going to listen to me? post later). They've basically flipped Insomnia in their head already so they think this eod is in the clear. When the Ephem wagon gets a bit of steam they immediately shade the person voting Ephem and then start tying Ephem W to Rask W in a ?wait not, don't? and ?well I'll chain these together if it goes bad? way. Then they spend the rest of eod talking to Dya about null reads because they don't want to get more people on Ephem but doesn't want to defend either. If they are willing to want to look right for ?defending wagons? that are going to flip villa it's reasonable they would continue that action and want to look right for voting Ephem while we chopped villagers.


I'm going to Vote: ephemeral


Not being able to figure out why Lan pushed Ephem as wolves was the reason for me to defend Ephem throughout yesterday but I now can see a plausible scenario where it makes sense. Once I have that I can give more weight to the classically villagery things I've been seeing from Visor throughout the game. I've liked his interactions with the wolf way more, I've thought his entire process on Mischief wasn't trying to force a mischop and was genuinely listening and weighing my words vs his reads there, the Nks viewed him as towny, and frankly if I've interacted with him this much and not gotten any bad vibes it's probably just because he's a villager. The alternative is that I got pocketed and I don't want to live in that world so I won't.

here's where i'm at in a nutshell.

I like sunbaes interactions with lantana better. They don't feel like they are on the same wavelength. It feels like sunbaes responses are not matching up perfectly, and they don't seem particularly enthusiastic about doing anything about lantana. They make a village read on them, it carries on through the day. It's a lightish villa read, and sunbae specifically does not have them in the 4 man group that he thinks are much stronger villagers. If sunbae was a wolf and his intention was to townread his partner, i think I would see a greater effort from him to do so. ephemerals interactions with lantana are nonexistent basically, so not much to judge on there. The epehemeral read makes zero sense, has no backing and just comes out of nowhere in a spot where multiple villagers are dying.

you have to ask yourself what is the point of the push at that point in time? there are two options:

a) distancing
b) to kill another villager

in the a) scenario, because this is a vig game, and the wagons were locked up, they decide to engage in a bit distancing to set up their partner in case they are vigged randomly, or need to look good later, its basically a potential get out of jail free card you can pick up later if things go wrong for either of you.
b) theoretically yes, this is viable. It is also pointless. they ALREADY wolfread enderwiggin for most of the day. they don't need to switch. maybe they wanted to look like they cared so they spiced up the eod.

it is possible they just thought ephemeral was an easy push so they decided to push the wagon. but it is weird how they handled it, theres no real build up to it, theres no i wolfread eph for this, its just out of the blue

Quote:

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I note a POE of Rasko Ender and Taffy written in your reads list but no comments on Taffy's bigger post that immediately followed.
(that is wolfy!)

Why no comments? I found it a touch towny on a surface level

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is the only background to it.


that said, lantana hard townreading sunbae and sunbae townreading lantana does hurt my soul a little.

so the question is, do i think its a bus or a push? it doesn't make a lot of sense as a real bus, and they don't seem comfortable on the wagon. but it also doesnt really make sense as a random villager kill because the villager they already wanted to kill was top wagon. so i leans towards it looking like distancing in a situation where they thought they could get away with it.

the next question is: the nightkills. dya and raskol.

dya was probably just killed because of lantana read + good player. they didnt really mention sunbae or ephemeral.

why was raskol killed? because he claimed vig? because the wolf didn't believe insomnia? this kinda points towards sunbae wrt not believing insomnia, though if i was a wolf in sunbaes shoes and i was pushing against insomnia, i might be tempted to kill insomnia because it wouldnt make sense from my pov in thread and ppl may village read it.

raskol expresses some suspiscion towards eph d2, and some tinfoil towards sunbae

i think i lean towards the wolf not believing insomnia - which means they killed raskol.

which might lean towards sunbae as a wolf.

as an overall point i think sunbae has been more villagery in thread than ephemeral. there are some sunbae posts that set the sirens going off (the i townread lantana post eod1, their relentless push of insomnia (though i can hardly blame him)).

basically:

raskol kill points to sunbae
overall posting points to eph
eod1 is.... kinda half points to eph

its a tough call, theres not a huge amount to read eph on this game. i think sunbae has been villagerier and if he is the wolf here, well, well done, you can stop claiming i can read you well :P

im not sold on my thoughts here, i can def see lantana just pushing another villager because they thought itd look good/could get away with it, but their weird hangups around eph actually dying skeeved me out as i mentioned yday

anyway ymmv, thats what im thinking rn. i need to reread over d2 a bit more.

i am hoping that either way, you dont shoot me cause i think i have by far the best interactions and i think ive done an okay job of solving evne if my results have not been great lol :P

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

nobody wolfread dya iirc
if dya is correct, wolves are just ender/lantana

ender/mischief/insom are my poe

re mischief and lantana interaction sunbae: it didn't feel to me like there was any real attempt by lantana or mischief to engage with each other. michief had the entry that taffy and i commented on but lantana didnt, (even though lantana saw the posts because they commented on me after that iirc), and the question lantana asked mischief is something that could easily be w/w in that its a very simple fake interaction thingo

the light townread stuff but also never interacting seems weird to me on both ends

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

just from memory but "Mischief what's your Rasko read summarized in one sentence now?"

is their only interaction? just weird to me

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Headspace with the rest of the game (I aint got the energy after that to go into super detail right now):


Tier 1

Ephemeral: Was attempted to be killed by Lan during the end of eod. Almost certainly a villager.

Rask: Called out Lan early, posted well, Lan went hard at them throughout the day: Voted them as the first real wagon that developed during mid day, started using their push on rask flipping wolf to make reads off of other players in a way that would not benefit wolves. Like, it wasn't trying to chain rask wolf into killing villagers that could be partnered with Rask. It was trying to clear people based off Rask flip. Dya also said very different from their w/w game if you're into meta reads. Almost certainly a villager.


Tier 2

Visor: I don't think the way Lan shifted on their read on Visor from V to W citing KATZE META and being diplomatic instead of word salad is w/w. I also don't think, if manufactured, that is the way Visor responds. Nice, laid back, relaxed ?I am aware of everything I post?, ?yes my posting style can change?, and ?I don't see an issue with being diplomatic?. There's no tension nor something for him to point back to for credit (and in that interaction I think it'd certainly be him going for the look good credit and not the other way around). I recognize that this is, well, ironic given I'm giving him credit for it. But I hope that distinction makes sense. Very likely a villager.

Mischief: I think the way Mischief played is right inside town meta. The deference to me/dya on a read of Visor felt really pure, sure, but I'm talking more of the mild stubborness about working via POE in a small game like this. Find villa reads, box out the rest, vote your best bet in there. I liked their backing off of Visor and Rask in that way after those interactions. Knowing that Lan is a wolf, the way they said they'll back off of Rask for now but will revisit if Ender is a wolf is a really good look I think. That's agendaless, no way for ender to flip wolf in a wolf!mischief world now. Very likely a villager.


Tier 3

Ender: If it's not insomnia I think it has to be here. I wish I had some like, big things to point towards but I don't. It's pure poe at this point but I don't think it's reasonable to have big things for EnderWolf anyways. This is a shitty blurb on him, I know. I'm tired. I'm hoping it doesn't matter. If it does I'll do my due diligence.


Insomnia: wrote about this already, think its the wolf

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Would it be helpful for us to talk about Mischief more? I really don't think that's the answer (and I think the lack of any interaction between them and the wolf is a town indicative thing rather than a wolf one).

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

Talk about why it seems more town indicative for you if you could

And ya it'd help me.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Because there's just ... nothing despite the way a Mischief/Lan wolf team would absolutely require something with how day 1 played out. Mischief and Lan were both rather vocal points of the thread a different parts of the day and received a decent amount of pressure. Rask and Dya went at Lan. Lan went at you and Ephemeral. Mischief went after Rask and you. You, Rask, and Taffy went at Mischief. If that's the wolf team how can they never defend each other or start to press each other? They are never, ever sweeping here with that day 1 pressure on both in a vig game and need to do * something *. I can see arguments if they started defending each other: they were under so much pressure they needed to try and sway consensus away. I can see arguments if they had pointed discussions with each other: they needed to look good once one flipped. They have nothing. At no point did they try to help, did they try to distance, did they have any foresight into future days. If that's the team, what are they doing?

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quote dump part 1 of me/visor interaction about mischief (more to come and discussion on it, just seems like theres a max # of quotes possible)

theres a world where sunbae/lantana just decided to townread each other and just keep going

depends on the kind of person lantana is. i tried to find new zealand players on mu and gave up lmao

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

as an aside, im just not feeeeeeling solving from mischief in terms of investigative stuff

like he defends himself from me, but hes not exploring where he wants to kill etc

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

My experience with Mischief is that he's a lot more reserved on where to kill as a villager and finds spots he likes, goes in on them, and if they dont pan out takes a while to reorient himself. As a wolf he flings votes around a fair bit more with little rhyme or reason. I understand what you're saying and why you're concerned but I'm going to tell you the same thing I told him when he was concerned about you: I think you're misguided here for understandable reasons.

I'm ... trying to do better about that thing I do where I feel good about something and then kinda just put it out into the thread instead of working hard to help others see it too. I'm also thinking that - while I'm hoping this is the easy world and I nabbed a really good case and solved the game - there is a possibility that we live in a hard world (like Rask currently doesn't think it's either of my bottom 2) and if we do *that* is the kill the wolves absolutely need and I'm going to try and vocalize my belief that it's not it and prevent it.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

I definitely agree on the zero consideration from either side. Do you think I'm just like, overestimating the amount of foresight wolves should be having here?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

I think it's possible that the wolves aren't planning with foresight and intend to just play by ear, which means doing whatever to survive today, hope you're alive tomorrow.

Some wolves do act with foresight and it's possible here, I'm just wary of banking on it

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zack

Official Tally as of #519

4 Mischief (Visor, EnderWiggin, Ephemeral, insomnia)
3 insomnia (Mischief, Sunbae, Raskolnikov)

Day 2 ends in

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part 2

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Visor,

I think this is a moon in spec game situation

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

I am trying to be more persuasive in games. I think I've had a lot of games recently where I was doing a pretty decent job (not great, but not bad) but I just kind of *exist* and it doesn't amount to much. In this game I've tried to lay out a concise, easy to follow case on who I think the wolf is (i know, they claimed vig and now I'm begrudgingly voting Ender because thats what I'm supposed to do) as well as a defense on a villager read with game related, personal meta, overall werewolf theory, and perceived flawed logic of pushes there as reasons. I am very uncomfortable in the "look at me!" role (I got a bit happy for myself last postgame cause like, the wolves were elite and I was able to sift through it a decent amount but that was an outlier in back patting lol) but this is my best effort at it.

At this point I am comforted knowing that if I am correct, I think the game is won. I won't jump up and down anymore. I will say my piece and let others roll in and do their thing. If I am incorrect, I won't be the one to derail it further.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

vote: ender

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

My options are: blade, who is actively shitposting

Mischief, who sunbae has moved heaven and earth to defend

Ephemeral: who got pushed a but by Lan but hasn't really been super villagery

Idkmybffjill

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

The only reason I'm not voting mischief is because of sunbae. I still don't think he's done any solving especially today and focused entirely on defending himself, but if sunbae believes it that strongly and I think sunbae is probably a villager I'm just going to throw up my hands and say fine, have it your way and if he's right good, if he's wrong rip and if he's a wolf trying to keep a ml alive for endgame I guess I'll make that decision when the time comes

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zack

Official Tally as of #538

3 EnderWiggin (Sunbae, Visor, Raskolnikov)
3 Mischief (EnderWiggin, Ephemeral, insomnia)

1 insomnia (Mischief)

Day 2 ends in

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and part 3.

Reading through this I don't think Visor really is opportunistically pushing this. I think the concerns he has are valid, I think he is interacting in good faith with me, and I think - most importantly - the way he credits me with pushing away from Mischief despite Mischief both being a top wagon and one that the wolves desperately need in that game state is just so weird for a wolf to do. Like, you need to break that pair up as a wolf with the way I've been defending. But he doesn't start trying to push it on me more than is reasonable and he doesn't try to start shifting it towards suspecting me instead. That entire interaction just reads like an honest to goodness pow wow of two people just trying to sort through things.

I don't think Insomnia not dying is a factor I'm paying attention to fwiw. I think there's enough information in the thread via interactions/casing/discussion to not worry about leveling via nk stuff.

Plus like, I don't think we need to do the whole discussion on my alignment thing. It has been said, repeated, and locked in that I am never, ever living through two kills when Insomnia has one and I've tunneled him for every game day in existence. I've acknowledged it and accept it. I have spent a few hours this evening going through and landing on what I think the answer is, explaining it in detail with quotes, and feel comfortable with it. If I'm right, cool. If I'm wrong, darn.

I am, of course, obligated to give some half hearted "Insomnia, if Ephem isn't right then idk just read my posts and ask yourself if I believe what I say or if I'm spewing nonsense" line at some point but that's just something we're all supposed to say here.

I'm going to get some sleep. Idk how much more game content I'll post tomorrow cause like, I've pretty much said all I feel like saying. Have explained who I think is the wolf, why, how it went down as that pair in my estimation, who i think is the villager and why. The only thing left is just WIFOM "if i were a wolf id be doing xyz not abc" self meta nonsense and I'm pretty much done with that stuff. We've talked about it before and it bores me at this point.

If you have any particular hiccups with how I've operated this game I will answer direct questions at some point tomorrow. That's pretty much all I'll do other than some memes and shitposting.

Games been fun. See you all tomorrow

is it possibe im just thinking sunbae is villagerier than eph because hes pointing out all the contradictions in posts as reasons for wolf reads?

im tired of thinking about this lol

i just want to see some eph solving before i make up my mind

i need to sleep on this

idk

im back bitches

so i decided to read some through d2 and an exchange between ender and sunbae stuck out:

"I'm going to take Dya's Insomnia read into account + the whole "Pointed Question" thing or whatever it was between Lan/Insomnia that Rask talked about and think I'm good giving Insomnia the day too today "

"Initial reaction to that is that I want to soft clear anyone that was around and active during eod trying to move wagons around. If they were wolves with lan they were sitting on a bunch of villager wagons with no threat to themselves yet still made the effort to move things around. Top of my head that's Visor, Rask, Mischief?"

both from sunbae

ender then alerts sunbae to the fact he was a wagon at eod and thus a villager in sunbaes world

sunbae takes a leaf out of the nl school of posting and ignores this

LOL

its strange to me that sunbae doesnt consider ender being a constant vote target of lantana, and also blade being one of the only voters of lantana on that day



ender expresses doubt on insomnia

sunbae buries insomnia, in hindsight this is a little weird of a progression - you say earlier that you are going to give him the day and then its bury insomnia time

why does sunbae have ephemeral as his highest clear mid day2 for lantana trying to kill him, when lantana spent most of the day trying to kill ender and ender trying to kill lantana

why is ender in this tier 3 of the poe. now i understand for me why i had trouble committing to a read on him, because he kept shitposting

why does sunbae have nothing to say about the ender lantana stuff idgi

goes on, sunbae responds to the insom claim

god i wish i didnt punt so hard yday, i wish i had conviction in my reads. i couldve done more to push back yesterday.

reading over d2, it is much wolfier than d1 for sunbae (eph is basically nonexistent).

the perspective of: lantana pushed eph therefore eph clear, to not giving the same respect to ender, to burying insomnia after saying he would give him the day

i understand reads can change it just feels like if they did change i didnt see the changes in thread

i wish i was better at actually internalising the lessons i learn in ww

i thought d2, i should trust dyas read on insomnia because its unlikely that insomnia as a wolf shoots dya there unless they are killing for lantana only

and i couldve ran with that for a day, but i let it go and sat in a big pile of nothing, not feeling anything strongly enough to take any real stances. i couldve pushed the eph read harder too, and maybe that wouldve made an easier f4 here, if not having the game already over.

insom id appreciate any thoughts you have if you are around before i go to bed

im gonna decide who to vote in the mornign after i see what eph and insomnia have to say

i just have nothing to grasp at with eph

theres no individual post that stands out to me and says this guy is a villager, this is a keen insight that wolves don't really have, the interactions arent clearing, the posts arent clearing

i have concerns over sunbaes d2, but i cant deny tha this d1 is a lot more villagery than ephs, even if he did townread the wolf consistently (so did i, so its not like a black mark forever thing)

idk. i will state again, that i dont think lantana as a wolf bothers to go those weird places as w/w with me, and i think my reaction is pretty clearly not on the same channel as them. i know repeating this stuff and pointing out while im town isnt anything you want insomnia, but i cant help the anxiety that somehow you'll make the wrong choice and i feel an urgent desire to show you why im town in case we are in the nightmare scenario and it goes to f3 because ive shit the bed so many times already and this is my chance at redeeming myself to get the village over the line, no matter if i am the village idiot @ chit town

the funny thing is, ive been in this scenario a few times lately as a villager, had people village read me, and ive focused on trying to lock down that read and then they panic and even though i dont think the other players itg (in these turbos) are posting v well, they just see the direct appeal and it must trigger all the alarms, because it never works, but in my head i feel like it should, people are just afraid to commit or look stupid, me included. perhaps its a waste of time.

ymmv

Quote:

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Originally Posted by insomnia

Sorry bronana it?s not even about you casing me, it?s about voting me when i feel like everyone was confused whether i was the vigi or vanillager faking it

I guess if you are a villager you are confused if im the last wolf but you don?t have to worry about it, that?s vigi?s problem and if im the last wolf i never win

You can case someone but voting them when they claim vigi, putting them in a tie??

Eph, why does visor look worse than sunbae here iyo? They have both voted, but sunbae?s vote had a chance to turn the tides when wolves have to deal with a potentially very tough question going into the night: ?do i bite the bait and shoot insomnia who?s a misvote opportunity??

If i flip vanillager, they take almost no heat cuz they were correct in thinking i wasn?t vig and everyone thought it was me

If i flip vigi, the wolf has the F3 target lined up in visor / sunbae, they aren?t alone making the pro-wolf suboptimal play

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Frankly it was simply a matter of heart vs mind

Up till last eod I pretty much consistently villa read sunbae's posting and couldn't get myself on board with nl's as much in the grand scheme of things

And if I'm going to be fully honest there's also quite a bit of bias that's been pushing me in that direction, I feel like i have a bit of a personal obligation to read nl properly because we share quite a few similarities as ww players(it's the same thing that pushed me to get quickly better than average at reading manti lol) so it leans towards being a pride thing quite a bit

Even though I don't have prior experience with nl's wolf game I have villaged with him several times and iirc, found him pretty easily back then so not having the same experience here is making me:stare:

There are several issues with this line of thinking obviously, because it could very easily just be a me problem not being on the ball and getting stuck on irrelevant nonsense

and I suppose that's what I'm going to try to find out today lol

well, whats the irrelevant nonsense u r getting stuck on

i will admit this is definitely an atypical game from me, partially spurred on from the deadlines

i havent been able to play the way i want to

ive been able to find you sometimes too, but i feel like you would agree that its gonna be hard for me to get tehre on you with not enough sticking out + short phases + low posts

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

well, whats the irrelevant nonsense u r getting stuck on

i will admit this is definitely an atypical game from me, partially spurred on from the deadlines

i havent been able to play the way i want to

ive been able to find you sometimes too, but i feel like you would agree that its gonna be hard for me to get tehre on you with not enough sticking out + short phases + low posts

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ya I get where you're coming from, having less time and content to digest makes it much harder for me to get anywhere solid too

said irrelevant nonsense would primarily be what I described in that post about me having a bit too much personal pride tied to not getting you wrong and comparing the times I was able to find you more easily

like it's easy for me to go "yeah that's prob dumb" on a logical level but the grip is still there emotionally I guess

Well I hope to see some solving from you when I wake up I guess

@insomnia can you give me some bullet points on why you're thinking sunbae over visor overall? I see your point about last eod but I'm looking for something that's more "big picture" oriented

right now the only hard point I can see myself giving in nl's favor is probably his interactions with lantana, I can definitely see v!him responding that way and I'm not surprised he'd come out of it with a villa read on the slot either

on the other hand sunbae's side of interactions doesn't stand out either way, they do back and forth a little bit but i don't see anything that points towards them not being aligned

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

Well I hope to see some solving from you when I wake up I guess

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splendid timing bronana

If you think that interaction makes sense as w/v and you think that's how I would react as a villager, why are you struggling to read me v idgi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

If you think that interaction makes sense as w/v and you think that's how I would react as a villager, why are you struggling to read me v idgi

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I generally dislike the feeling of betting the entire game on only one point even if it's a good one, for better or worse lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

im back bitches

so i decided to read some through d2 and an exchange between ender and sunbae stuck out:

"I'm going to take Dya's Insomnia read into account + the whole "Pointed Question" thing or whatever it was between Lan/Insomnia that Rask talked about and think I'm good giving Insomnia the day too today "

"Initial reaction to that is that I want to soft clear anyone that was around and active during eod trying to move wagons around. If they were wolves with lan they were sitting on a bunch of villager wagons with no threat to themselves yet still made the effort to move things around. Top of my head that's Visor, Rask, Mischief?"

both from sunbae

ender then alerts sunbae to the fact he was a wagon at eod and thus a villager in sunbaes world

sunbae takes a leaf out of the nl school of posting and ignores this

LOL

its strange to me that sunbae doesnt consider ender being a constant vote target of lantana, and also blade being one of the only voters of lantana on that day



ender expresses doubt on insomnia

sunbae buries insomnia, in hindsight this is a little weird of a progression - you say earlier that you are going to give him the day and then its bury insomnia time

why does sunbae have ephemeral as his highest clear mid day2 for lantana trying to kill him, when lantana spent most of the day trying to kill ender and ender trying to kill lantana

why is ender in this tier 3 of the poe. now i understand for me why i had trouble committing to a read on him, because he kept shitposting

why does sunbae have nothing to say about the ender lantana stuff idgi

goes on, sunbae responds to the insom claim

god i wish i didnt punt so hard yday, i wish i had conviction in my reads. i couldve done more to push back yesterday.

reading over d2, it is much wolfier than d1 for sunbae (eph is basically nonexistent).

the perspective of: lantana pushed eph therefore eph clear, to not giving the same respect to ender, to burying insomnia after saying he would give him the day

i understand reads can change it just feels like if they did change i didnt see the changes in thread

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I did not ignore that. I explained that if Lantana is a dead wolf and one of those people were a wolf, that's both wolves and those wagons had to be villagers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Yes, if Rask/Visor/Mischief are wolves then you have to be a villager because they are the last one remaining. In those worlds, why would they be so active on v/v/v/v wagons?

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Here.

I'm unsure why Ender and you thought it was some big gotcha? It makes perfect sense to me?

Me: Lantana is a dead wolf. I think I want to clear Rask, visor, and mischief because if one of them were wolves then all the wagons were v/v/v and why would wolves be so active trying to move wagons around at end of day?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

the funny thing is, ive been in this scenario a few times lately as a villager, had people village read me, and ive focused on trying to lock down that read and then they panic and even though i dont think the other players itg (in these turbos) are posting v well, they just see the direct appeal and it must trigger all the alarms, because it never works, but in my head i feel like it should, people are just afraid to commit or look stupid, me included. perhaps its a waste of time.

ymmv

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Sir, I am voting the other person and discussing how I think you're a villager. Repeatedly. I don't think I'm panicked at all. I have had no qualms this game of saying what I believe and at no point have I been afraid of looking stupid.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

there is no fear in this dojo

But yes, this is why I've just stopped the self-meta "i wouldnt interact this way/do this as a wolf" because I've determined "its a waste of time" like you said. I tell the truth with it, nobody in the game believes me, then nobody adjusts in the future and we do it again. Now I'm just saying what I think are alignments and moving on.

Like, do I think my interactions with Lan are clearing for me? Yes, I could write paragraphs about it. But at the end everyone will say "well thats what you have to say no matter what" and ignore it and the only thing I've accomplished is wasting my time. Instead, I've spent my time breaking down exactly where my head is at regarding Visor and Ephem: via postings, interactions with Lan, dead night kill reads factoring in, what my hang ups were about Ephem being a wolf, then finding a solution to that hang up and bringing it all together to determine my wolf and villager read. I think that has been a better use of my time.

I do think I'm findable here if you read over my cases and pushes and defenses. "Doe she believe this" is the only question that ultimately matters. I think it's clear that I thought Insomnia was a wolf and that I was thinking Mischief was a villager in all of those interactions. But I've accepted the fact that when you push the vig for two days that sometimes you get shot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

im back bitches

so i decided to read some through d2 and an exchange between ender and sunbae stuck out:

"I'm going to take Dya's Insomnia read into account + the whole "Pointed Question" thing or whatever it was between Lan/Insomnia that Rask talked about and think I'm good giving Insomnia the day too today "

"Initial reaction to that is that I want to soft clear anyone that was around and active during eod trying to move wagons around. If they were wolves with lan they were sitting on a bunch of villager wagons with no threat to themselves yet still made the effort to move things around. Top of my head that's Visor, Rask, Mischief?"

both from sunbae

ender then alerts sunbae to the fact he was a wagon at eod and thus a villager in sunbaes world

sunbae takes a leaf out of the nl school of posting and ignores this

LOL

its strange to me that sunbae doesnt consider ender being a constant vote target of lantana, and also blade being one of the only voters of lantana on that day



ender expresses doubt on insomnia

sunbae buries insomnia, in hindsight this is a little weird of a progression - you say earlier that you are going to give him the day and then its bury insomnia time

why does sunbae have ephemeral as his highest clear mid day2 for lantana trying to kill him, when lantana spent most of the day trying to kill ender and ender trying to kill lantana

why is ender in this tier 3 of the poe. now i understand for me why i had trouble committing to a read on him, because he kept shitposting

why does sunbae have nothing to say about the ender lantana stuff idgi

goes on, sunbae responds to the insom claim

god i wish i didnt punt so hard yday, i wish i had conviction in my reads. i couldve done more to push back yesterday.

reading over d2, it is much wolfier than d1 for sunbae (eph is basically nonexistent).

the perspective of: lantana pushed eph therefore eph clear, to not giving the same respect to ender, to burying insomnia after saying he would give him the day

i understand reads can change it just feels like if they did change i didnt see the changes in thread

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Open day: I villa read Rask/Mischief/Visor/Ephem for the end of day. Wolf is in Ender or Insom. I'll listen to dyas insomnia read and vote Ender.

Early in day: I read through end of day and determined that Lan's posting about Insomnia was a panicked wolf trying to save their teammate. I look into interactions and see that they talked to Insomnia way more pointed than anyone else they talk to. Make an entire long case about why I'm going back to Insomnia instead and how it supersedes my earlier dya thing because it's a full blown case I feel good about.

Insomnia claims vig: I don't believe you. I almost counterclaim reflexively but remember rocks fall and say "no. I will not spaz out again. We are in a position where I don't need to do that". I flat out tell Insomnia I don't believe him but I will grumble and vote elsewhere. My options are now Ender/Mischief. I vote Ender, explain that I have no real concrete reason to find Ender wolfy, that I think Mischief is a villager, and that I think we're in one of those situations where we're all going to try and find a wolf in a bunch of villagers because the one right in front of us is a wolf (insomnia) and its like a moon situation from spec chat game when we kept trying to find the harder answer and none of them really felt right.

End of day: Mischief/Ender are wagons. We all joke about how none of us really want to vote Ender we're just not voting for mischief (me cause I villa read, others to listen to me). We all kind of collectively say fuck it. I'm voting the person I think is a wolf, claim be damned. Rask moves, you move, I move. I listened to myself and voted my best wolf read.


I think your "reads can change it just feels like if they did change I didn't see the changes in the thread" comment is incorrect.

Like, I understand what you're doing. If you wolf case both of us it doesn't matter what the answer is, if the vig listens to you then you win. I think that means we win right now but it'd be true regardless.

I much prefer my way of just saying "this is the wolf, that is the villager, gl" but maybe my approach here is flawed. It's certainly an unusual and awkward game state.

Entirely a side note: an entire game of 700 posts where I can actually reread the entire game multiple times is such a wonderful thing. It's the first time I've gotten to end game in a thread like this and it makes life so much easier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

Incidentally there's a hilarious world where sunbae/Lantana are wolves but I won't share that one quite yet lol

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@Visorslash can you elaborate what this was about? I think u mentioned this toDay but i wanna ask again to make sure in case you didn?t elaborate

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ephemeral

pretty much the bolded yes

I take issue with it entirely because I can't think of anything historically that would prompt someone to read me in that direction so it looks like the read is tacked on there just because, as opposed to it being a real read you'd form on any reasonable basis

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ephemeral

ya most likely will be asleep by eod so I'm gonna have to pick a lane in a bit
@Visor if you're around can you gimme something on rask here? iirc you had some slam dunk reads on him before

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This progression struck me as weird - eph finds rask weird for looking into activity (ok? Gth it?s not an issue in and of itself that much) but i imagine this second post was a result of his first one which i have some difficulty believing to be genuine - not impossible but it?s a minor bad look

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ephemeral

pretty much the bolded yes

I take issue with it entirely because I can't think of anything historically that would prompt someone to read me in that direction so it looks like the read is tacked on there just because, as opposed to it being a real read you'd form on any reasonable basis

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

vote: ephemeral

I really gotta think about that taffy read some more

Part of me just wants to village read it because it's not a super good case/weird targets but I do have a weal spot for that stuff

Raskol can you talk about Lantana a bit for me?

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Why interested in lantana here?