Barbarian faction opinons

I have completed the campaigns for Casse and Sweboz, and have started the Aedui and Arverni campaigns. I have to say I love the barbarian factions, the way they fight through skilled melee combat and all out offensive aggression is fantastic. I have played Saba, Carthage, Rome (almost finished Carthage) and I have started Saka Rauka. But I still prefer the barbarian factions, a great deal more in fact (with the Casse being my favourite for having champions, the most unique strategy to fighting out of all the Europa Barbarorum factions I've played in my opinion). Just wondering what your opinions on the barbarian factions are compared to the other factions :>

Barbarian factions certainly get nice armies, with the noble/hero/elites being really awesome. Especially if you compare the possibilities of RTW barbarians with EB, the team has done a splendid job.

The only barbarians I have really played are the Arverni, which I really liked at first, uniting Gaul. Then I established a sturdy border at the Elbe and the Ebro and destroyed the Romani. Although I could invade Britain and expand in the Mediterrean I don't really get the imperial feel from midgame I get with the Romani, Hellenic and Eastern factions. It's easier to roleplay huge empires with those in my opinion.

Happy campaigning!

~Fluvius

I totally agree with you about the "imperial feel", it does feel a lot more...realistic and easier roleplaying wise to continue with Carthage and Rome to make huge empires than it does with the barbarian factions.

I love variety and that's what barbarians are good at. I love the sight of axes upon Roman heads and limbs. I also love ordering a charge of fanatics to crush enemy lines, I can taste the fear in their ranks. Two handed weapons make for an awesome sight.

Totally agree with you, who needs shields and armour when you've got your trusty human-sized sword and your brother in arms by your side :>

I really like to play as one of the "barbarian" factions in EB once in a while, a real fan of Sweboz and Getai. A nice thing about Sweboz are the "local" variants of your basic units, something I love roleplaying with. Whereas Getai... Super skirmishers, Hoplitesque Line holders, Super cheap Choppaz and even acces to light lancers and HAs, now that's a great roster!

One thing I really like about these armies is the totally different view on enemy troops: romans eg. With Carthagians or greeks: the thing my soldiers "fear" are regiments of Pedites extraordinari whereas ranged troops are more of a nuisance to keep away from your backside but otherwise perfectly harmless.
With Sweboz or Getai my soldiers (or rather I) think: 'YAY shiny armor, that will look great between the other trophies!' but as soon as ranged troops in form of Sotaroas or Toxotai pop up I'm all 'cautious stay out of range, take cover in forests, don't show them your rightside, NO!!!!! RUNAWAY!!!' or rather 'charge! before they get to fire a second salvo, you're local troops anyway'

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Originally Posted by Fluvius Camillus

Although I could invade Britain and expand in the Mediterrean I don't really get the imperial feel from midgame I get with the Romani, Hellenic and Eastern factions. It's easier to roleplay huge empires with those in my opinion.

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Absolutly. With the Romans, one of the Successors or the Parthians you have some kind of "mission" to subdue large parts of the maps that's somehow lacking when playing a Barbarian faction. For example, it does feel somewhat odd when creating something like the Ottonian Empire with the Sweboz, try to unite all Celts across the map with the Aedui or hopping over to Africa with the Lusotans.

I have now (re-)started a Casse campaign. This time I did not disband my ship and army but crossed the channel to get my hands on Belgia proper. So far I am enjoying it very much and I am looking foreward to the "Hundred Years Wars" with the Aedui while at the time very slowly expanding in Britain.

I love the barbarian factions. The Casse and Aedui being my favourite along with AS and Sauromatae. The unit variation which people have been discussing is certainly one of the main attractions with the barbarian fwctions, not to mention some of the units available to barbarian factions like the Belgic Minhalt, Leuce Epos, Cidanh (there is nothing better for dealing with light cav) and Venetic ships. My main drawback when playing as the barbarians is I am not very good at it. I have got close a few times with the Casse and my current Aedui campaign has already seen the sacking of Rome but I always find myself in a Sweboz-Roman vice with an economy insufficient to enable a counter offensive.

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Originally Posted by Brennus

I have got close a few times with the Casse and my current Aedui campaign has already seen the sacking of Rome but I always find myself in a Sweboz-Roman vice with an economy insufficient to enable a counter offensive.

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I had this problem with the Aedui, that's the main reason I haven't completed that campaign yet. I was too busy fighting the Arverni and Lusotann I was taken by surprise when I suddenly saw brown armies peering into view :<.

Sorry to sound rude but how long have you been fighting the Arverni for?

Not sure in years/seasons, but I did put them down quite early, I was just fighting Lusotann and Romans (towards the most recent of my campaigning with Aedui), I didn't venture far North so I didn't notice the Sweboz getting stronger. How could you sound rude o.o

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Originally Posted by PureEvil[PIE]

Not sure in years/seasons, but I did put them down quite early, I was just fighting Lusotann and Romans (towards the most recent of my campaigning with Aedui), I didn't venture far North so I didn't notice the Sweboz getting stronger. How could you sound rude o.o

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I was just worried when you said you were fighting the Lusotanni and Arverni you meant at the same time, either meaning that the Lusotanni had blitzed up to Gaul or you were taking a long time to beat the Arverni. I didn't wan't to cause offence by saying "You should really have the Arverni beat in the first 2 years" and have you say something along the lines of "Serious!?". A little trick for you when playing as the Aedui, once you have beaten the Arverni there is no better time to invade Rome. The Romans are occupied with the Epirots in Tarentum and by hugging the Appenine mountains you can fight your battles defensively, let the legions wear themsevles out climbing to meet you and then smash them with a charge of botroas. This way I managed to sneek into Italy, sack Rome and burn the Capitol. In honour of my namesake I got them to pay me to go away and using a non-agression pact they were more than happy to sign I was able to get back across the Alps with my army in tact.

Venturing north as the Gauls is a very good idea, IMO, it opens up more ports ot trade with the Britons (lots of lovely tin to be had) and gives you access to three of the best troop types available to the Celts: Remi cavalry, Belgic spearmen (impassable) and Belgic swordsmen (unstoppable). It does mean you keep having to watch the Sweboz border but with Belgic troops its possible to break pretty much any German invasion. It's the Romans who you have to be wary of.

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Originally Posted by Brennus

I was just worried when you said you were fighting the Lusotanni and Arverni you meant at the same time, either meaning that the Lusotanni had blitzed up to Gaul or you were taking a long time to beat the Arverni. I didn't wan't to cause offence by saying "You should really have the Arverni beat in the first 2 years" and have you say something along the lines of "Serious!?".

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Depends. I like to press the Arverni eastwards (after having taken Viennos and Gergovia) to create a buffer between me and the Suebi. Doesn't always work though. In one campaign (abandoned due to corrupted savegame files) the Arverni just didn't fight the Swêboz. In fact, they surrendered faster than their descendants did in WWII. It was really awful. It works well though when I'm playing the Swêboz, and using the Arverni as a shield to the West and South.

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It's the Romans who you have to be wary of.

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Especially seeing as you don't have dedicated AP troops. Teceitos are only recruitable in some border provinces and become unavailable after the second reform. Tekastos and Appea Gaedotos are good but only regionally available as well. Not to mention they're not really Gallic (meaning it doesn't feel right to use them in "royal" armies or to spam them like Gaelaiche or Bataroas). Likewise for Illyrian clubmen (with the additional problem that they're useless against other barbarians). Sure, slingers and cavalry have AP attacks, but they aren't too terribly effective vs Romans as main damage dealers. This is what I dislike about the Gallic factions. All other barbarians have some basic anti-armour unit that is widely available in their homeland (Casse - Teceitos; Getai - Drapanai/Kostobok axemen; Lusotannan - Caetrannan; Swêboz - Sloxonez).

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Originally Posted by Brennus

and gives you access to three of the best troop types available to the Celts: Remi cavalry, Belgic spearmen (impassable) and Belgic swordsmen (unstoppable).

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I am a little suspicious of bias due to your field of study. :clown:

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Originally Posted by Blxz

I am a little suspicious of bias due to your field of study. :clown:

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lol. :balloon2: for paying attention to my posts. Thank you.

I haven't played any barbarian faction as of yet. I like the civilised nations with their heavy armor a lot more. Does any one of you know a nice barbarian faction for a player like me?

If you're particularly attached to armoured infantry, I would suggest either the Getai or the Lusotanna. All the barbarian factions have armoured units, of course, but the Germans and Britons tend to be poorly armoured (with only a handful of exceptions) while the Gauls are so-so.

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Originally Posted by Sylon

while the Gauls are so-so.

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O.o

Arverni and Aedui are the most armoured factions of the barbarian culture slot with their third reform...

Getai and Lusotannan, have huge shields and pectorals at most, except for the Ischyroi Orditon or the Loricati Scutari...

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Originally Posted by rickinator9

I haven't played any barbarian faction as of yet. I like the civilised nations with their heavy armor a lot more. Does any one of you know a nice barbarian faction for a player like me?

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Gauls. They also have the best economy&infrastructure of all barbarian factions. (Not pictured: more Celtic auxiliaries with medium armour).
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Originally Posted by Arjos

O.o

Arverni and Aedui are the most armoured factions of the barbarian culture slot with their third reform...

Getai and Lusotannan, have huge shields and pectorals at most, except for the Ischyroi Orditon or the Loricati Scutari...

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True, but you're hardly going to make armies consisting mainly of Solduros or Druids, now, are you? My definition of an armoured faction takes into account not the heaviest armoured unit a faction has, but how much armour a regular army would possess. The Gallic elites may have more armour than the Lusotannen ones, but your average Gallic army is going to consist largely of lightly-armoured spearmen and swordsmen, while an average Lusotannen army is going to consist of medium-armoured Lusotannen and Iberian infantry.

Of course, a large portion of this is down to personal playstyle- that is to say, how much you tend to use elites.

EDIT: Though, looking up the updated EB unit list, it seems that Lusotannen spearmen got a nerf in the armour department in 1.2. Also, I missed the existence of Neitos, which would be fairly affordable heavy infantry. My bad.

EDIT 2: Edited in a quote to make it clearer who I was speaking to.

Lusotannan Medium Spearmen still have their eleven armor. I depending on how you select the unit sometimes the stats don't update from the last selected one. Atleast I also got some strange stats as well. Anyway:
http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...y&category=any

Anyway no matter their armor Lusotannan, Getai and Sweboz troops have always made a more professional impression on me. I think it depends on the prefered playing style. Celts depend on the charge. Sweboz duke it out in line-battles. Luso are my favourites.You can either ambush the enemy and try to lure it into traps on the battlefield. Or block the enemy with your heavy troops and then use your various specialists to destroy them. Getai of course kill the enemy before you can even make a plan.

Edit: reread the question: yes Gauls have most armour of the barbarian faction. And you get more and more of it with reforms.

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Originally Posted by Blxz

I am a little suspicious of bias due to your field of study. :clown:

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That, but indeed I too find the Belgic Swordsmen one of the best units the Barbarians can get their hands on. I don't know what makes them so special because their stats are not that exceptional, but I find them regulary cutting through everything that comes popping up along the Channel. They even can give Rycalawre (what I had made the Casse bodyguard instead of chariots) a serious headache toe to toe, for example in a town square.

The spearmen are not that dramatically good, but they are level 1(!) where you otherwise get just Lugoae.

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Originally Posted by Sylon

True, but you're hardly going to make armies consisting mainly of Solduros or Druids, now, are you? My definition of an armoured faction takes into account not the heaviest armoured unit a faction has, but how much armour a regular army would possess. The Gallic elites may have more armour than the Lusotannen ones, but your average Gallic army is going to consist largely of lightly-armoured spearmen and swordsmen, while an average Lusotannen army is going to consist of medium-armoured Lusotannen and Iberian infantry.

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Fair point - the Gauls hardly have medium spearmen with basic armour (Gaelaiche are good but they only have a shirt). Lusitanians and Getai do. However, in late campaign, you can field decent numbers of Neitos and Arjos with some justification (your faction getting rich, contact with Romans that necessitates an core of armoured line infantry, etc.).
Furthermore, the economy is an argument. A player coming from the more civilized factions will find the Celts easier to manage than the other "savages" (including nomads here). The fact that the Lusotannan are situated in one of the (potentially) richest regions in the game tends to hide the fact that their tech tree is really inferior to almost any other faction (excluding Saka and Sauromatae). Getai are just as weak in this respect, their redeeming feature being the extremely varied roster which makes it easy to conquer Greece or other rich neighbourhoods.

The problem with Lusitanian troops is also that they have two weaknesses - one being missiles and the other close combat.

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Originally Posted by konny

That, but indeed I too find the Belgic Swordsmen one of the best units the Barbarians can get their hands on. I don't know what makes them so special because their stats are not that exceptional, but I find them regulary cutting through everything that comes popping up along the Channel. They even can give Rycalawre (what I had made the Casse bodyguard instead of chariots) a serious headache toe to toe, for example in a town square.

The spearmen are not that dramatically good, but they are level 1(!) where you otherwise get just Lugoae.

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Belgic Swordsmen are so good because of their spacing. Line them up next to Bataroas or Botroas and look at the difference. Every one of their opponents is facing two Milnaht basically, although they will be more easily flanked because of this. Spacing gives them a lot of pushing power as well so they generally have their opponents moving backwards. Also the big shield helps against javelins.

I too would advise Gauls for someone who prefers civilized factions. They have more armor than other barbarian factions and (a huge plus in my book) can build nifty paved roads.

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Originally Posted by Brave Brave Sir Robin

Belgic Swordsmen are so good because of their spacing. Line them up next to Bataroas or Botroas and look at the difference. Every one of their opponents is facing two Milnaht basically, although they will be more easily flanked because of this. Spacing gives them a lot of pushing power as well so they generally have their opponents moving backwards. Also the big shield helps against javelins.

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That's the same reason why Swêboz units are astonishingly powerful. Even their skirmishers have relatively tight spacing. Don't forget the morale and discipline of the Belgian troops though, which is what makes them so reliable.

I look for high morale (16+), highly trained, and impetuous. Also like to make sure I have axemen or falxmen in my armies so I can send them specifically against armored infantry. I like the Iberian troops because of their armor piercing swords and their real effective javelins. Never underestimate superior numbers of alpine shortswordsmen against lesser numbers of heavier armored swordsmen. I always try to make the heavy infantry tired with skirmishers and cavalry with slingers firing on their flanks first and then charge them with my mass of crazed wildmen!

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Originally Posted by Brennus

lol. :balloon2: for paying attention to my posts. Thank you.

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Much appreciated; they tend to be interesting posts. My first balloon also.

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Originally Posted by Brave Brave Sir Robin

can build nifty paved roads

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Hit the nail on the head here. I lately have been sticking with paved roads factions just because building up infrastructure is fun.

Does anyone have any tips on just how to get the Gallic economy moving?

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Originally Posted by Brennus

Does anyone have any tips on just how to get the Gallic economy moving?

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The problem with the Gauls is, as you know, that they have a difficult start. I tend to get into huge debt with the Aedui at the start, much worse than with Swêboz. Of course you know the relevant stuff, like disband your fleet, use up your armies to defeat the rival faction, and take one or two Eleutheroi settlements. Once you've got to the point where you're in the plus, you should focus on getting paved roads. They're the most cost-efficient building in EB and also help with public order issues. Apart from that (and in first place in those settlements that aren't cities yet), sea ports, healers, and tier 2 farms are important. After these, look to markets and river ports. Of course you'll need to keep a tight regimen, which means taxes at max, small armies with only a few swordsmen and cavalry units, and so on.

If you can take Helvetis, it will provide you with two silver mines (apart from the obvious kickass auxiliaries).
Tolosa has a mine and a pre-built tier 1 (which you can upgrade to tier 2) sea port (and a few goodies).
Same for Burdigala, except the mine of course. Tolosa can also have a tier 2 military port.
Darioritum can be taken easily and comes with a pre-built tier 2 port, which can be upgraded to tier 3.
Massilia has a pre-built tier 1 port which can be upgraded to tier 3 with a Type I or II government. Unfortunately, Aedui can only have a Type III government in Massilia, which only allows for tier 2. Also, the Romans love Massilia, so you'll need to develop your MICs there (native one first, since it has Botroas and other choppy blokes) and possibly crank out some Sphendonetai.

With Keltoi, all you need are 3-4 Botroas or Bataroas and 1 FL or FH, with that set-up you can conquer all Gallia, with the enemy sallying forth...
It's not even funny, poor AI, how much we abused it XD

As athanaric pointed out, what matters are mines and ports; cut expenses on units that you really don't need, sticking to Iaosatae and Bataroas...