Barbarian faction opinons

[Brennus]

I am a little suspicious of bias due to your field of study.

lol. for paying attention to my posts. Thank you.

[rickinator9]

I haven't played any barbarian faction as of yet. I like the civilised nations with their heavy armor a lot more. Does any one of you know a nice barbarian faction for a player like me?

[Sylon]

If you're particularly attached to armoured infantry, I would suggest either the Getai or the Lusotanna. All the barbarian factions have armoured units, of course, but the Germans and Britons tend to be poorly armoured (with only a handful of exceptions) while the Gauls are so-so.

[Arjos]

while the Gauls are so-so.

O.o

Arverni and Aedui are the most armoured factions of the barbarian culture slot with their third reform...

Getai and Lusotannan, have huge shields and pectorals at most, except for the Ischyroi Orditon or the Loricati Scutari...

[Sylon]

O.o

Arverni and Aedui are the most armoured factions of the barbarian culture slot with their third reform...

Getai and Lusotannan, have huge shields and pectorals at most, except for the Ischyroi Orditon or the Loricati Scutari...

True, but you're hardly going to make armies consisting mainly of Solduros or Druids, now, are you? My definition of an armoured faction takes into account not the heaviest armoured unit a faction has, but how much armour a regular army would possess. The Gallic elites may have more armour than the Lusotannen ones, but your average Gallic army is going to consist largely of lightly-armoured spearmen and swordsmen, while an average Lusotannen army is going to consist of medium-armoured Lusotannen and Iberian infantry.

Of course, a large portion of this is down to personal playstyle- that is to say, how much you tend to use elites.

EDIT: Though, looking up the updated EB unit list, it seems that Lusotannen spearmen got a nerf in the armour department in 1.2. Also, I missed the existence of Neitos, which would be fairly affordable heavy infantry. My bad.

EDIT 2: Edited in a quote to make it clearer who I was speaking to.

[team_kramnik]

Lusotannan Medium Spearmen still have their eleven armor. I depending on how you select the unit sometimes the stats don't update from the last selected one. Atleast I also got some strange stats as well. Anyway:
http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...y&category=any

Anyway no matter their armor Lusotannan, Getai and Sweboz troops have always made a more professional impression on me. I think it depends on the prefered playing style. Celts depend on the charge. Sweboz duke it out in line-battles. Luso are my favourites.You can either ambush the enemy and try to lure it into traps on the battlefield. Or block the enemy with your heavy troops and then use your various specialists to destroy them. Getai of course kill the enemy before you can even make a plan.

Edit: reread the question: yes Gauls have most armour of the barbarian faction. And you get more and more of it with reforms.

[athanaric]

True, but you're hardly going to make armies consisting mainly of Solduros or Druids, now, are you? My definition of an armoured faction takes into account not the heaviest armoured unit a faction has, but how much armour a regular army would possess. The Gallic elites may have more armour than the Lusotannen ones, but your average Gallic army is going to consist largely of lightly-armoured spearmen and swordsmen, while an average Lusotannen army is going to consist of medium-armoured Lusotannen and Iberian infantry.

Fair point - the Gauls hardly have medium spearmen with basic armour (Gaelaiche are good but they only have a shirt). Lusitanians and Getai do. However, in late campaign, you can field decent numbers of Neitos and Arjos with some justification (your faction getting rich, contact with Romans that necessitates an core of armoured line infantry, etc.).
Furthermore, the economy is an argument. A player coming from the more civilized factions will find the Celts easier to manage than the other "savages" (including nomads here). The fact that the Lusotannan are situated in one of the (potentially) richest regions in the game tends to hide the fact that their tech tree is really inferior to almost any other faction (excluding Saka and Sauromatae). Getai are just as weak in this respect, their redeeming feature being the extremely varied roster which makes it easy to conquer Greece or other rich neighbourhoods.

The problem with Lusitanian troops is also that they have two weaknesses - one being missiles and the other close combat.

[athanaric]

I haven't played any barbarian faction as of yet. I like the civilised nations with their heavy armor a lot more. Does any one of you know a nice barbarian faction for a player like me?

Gauls. They also have the best economy&infrastructure of all barbarian factions. (Not pictured: more Celtic auxiliaries with medium armour).

[Kleitos]

I haven't played any barbarian faction as of yet. I like the civilised nations with their heavy armor a lot more. Does any one of you know a nice barbarian faction for a player like me?

well me too, i had bias for the barbarian factions and so played mostly greeks, parthians or the hayasdan - but as allways when playin´a new faction, inspired from all the infos you get when you play this awesome game i make researches for them to be able to enjoy roleplayin more.

the celts (continent celts - in game Aedui, Arverni) at this time are considerd a step before high culture ...so i guess you should try them.

and - it´s just real fun - to have an campaign with so much different units available with so much skill ... great skill and very good stamina. ..for me there is nothing much above this ...since playin these factions i dont look much for armour anymore.

these two qualities beat good an expensive armour in my opinion. ..i always play vh/vh so no need to hesitate about lack of armour - of course hit an run tactics are inevitable at least with the slingers and such in the skirmish phase...

just some hint - use the recruitment viewer and the EB Units list http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.net/index.php? to plan which units you will definitely use and therefore maybe where to move first.
forget about units with only good stamina when you can have the ones with very good. ..so i guess - owning the belgae provinces therefore is a very good thing - the Belgians just rock!

o.k. teceitos with AP attributes (but "only" good stamina) are very useful and cost effective ...used them largely in my first Arverni campaign ...until i noticed in late campaign that in Cantabria and Asturia (northern spanish Atlantic-coast) are Axefighters available with very good stamina and more skill, the "Clona Tekonac" - also they are available after the time of soldiers reform.
now in my Aedui Campaign i moved quickly after subdue the Arverni to Cantabria ..it takes some time anyway until the level 4 MIC is build.

but i wonder if it only happen to me? : i never got time to unite all of Gaul in early game like Brennus did - after destroying the rival Gaul faction - i was quickly at war with the Romaioi (even when i abstained from taking Massalia) ...so i had to concentrate to conquer them ..in the end (since the Romaioi never give up) it was necessary to take all off italy ...then in both campaigns the Sweboz attacked me to - so same thing.. the culture diversity is not so big - so pacifying the population is easier as with Rome.
my expansion always lead me into the east in early or midgame. ..uniting the rest of Gaul was only possible for me after that in a consolidation phase when not at war with any Faction.

[The Stranger]

you play VH/VH that makes a big difference undoubtly.

[Kleitos]

...well i dont mind to micromanage battles, in fact i enjoy it - so in my opinion vh battles are not to be afraid of. ..except until i tried the celts the first time - thought maybe vh battles with their lack of armour could be not so fun - but they are. ..as long as not in dense forrests.

the vh on campaigns i use to hopefully encounter some unexpected naval invasion or getting besieged from Rebels (as stated from some members somewhere) - but until now it never happened...

or do you mean that the Romans will not attack a celtic faction so soon when using e.g. medium campaign level instead?

[The Stranger]

well most ppl play VH/M, You play VH/VH. the campaign AI is equal, only it is easier to defeat bigger stacks on M battle difficulty. in time this will accumulate and speed up their conquest while you have to struggle more and will have less men after a battle to do the conquering.

if you have 2000 vs 2000 on m battle i can win it with 1800 men left and kill atleast 1900 enemies if i have fast cav chasing the routers. on VH battle difficulty i think it will be much harder, and if i have a 1000 left i will have to wait, retrain my army etc and this will take more time.

[Kleitos]

guess i still use the smallest army size?. dont know the game intern name for it - but use the army size where 60 (or 62) men form one
Phalanx or one unit of Pantodapoi or Lugoae and such. Milnaht and Hoplitai about 40.

in percentages - my loss in battles range from about 8% until 25% where the latter only happens with real strong adversaries i.e. very good Generals and, or or very good troop compositions - happens more likely when fighting against the Romaioi. - i find they remain the toughest nut to break.
killing rate is much like you described - but also often 100% if i have enough Cavalry... i know thats cruel ;-) - but else i have to fight them again.
so actually i can live with the losses - and can care for replenishment.

another thing which i like with the celtic factions: with those skilled swordfighters its also fun to attack and defend stone walls.
thats what i found annoying for instance with the Koinon Hellenon units - even the Spartiatai just suck on walls. whereas Milnaht or the like just hack their way through.

[Blxz]

lol. for paying attention to my posts. Thank you.

Much appreciated; they tend to be interesting posts. My first balloon also.

can build nifty paved roads

Hit the nail on the head here. I lately have been sticking with paved roads factions just because building up infrastructure is fun.

[Brennus]

Does anyone have any tips on just how to get the Gallic economy moving?

[athanaric]

Does anyone have any tips on just how to get the Gallic economy moving?

The problem with the Gauls is, as you know, that they have a difficult start. I tend to get into huge debt with the Aedui at the start, much worse than with Swêboz. Of course you know the relevant stuff, like disband your fleet, use up your armies to defeat the rival faction, and take one or two Eleutheroi settlements. Once you've got to the point where you're in the plus, you should focus on getting paved roads. They're the most cost-efficient building in EB and also help with public order issues. Apart from that (and in first place in those settlements that aren't cities yet), sea ports, healers, and tier 2 farms are important. After these, look to markets and river ports. Of course you'll need to keep a tight regimen, which means taxes at max, small armies with only a few swordsmen and cavalry units, and so on.

If you can take Helvetis, it will provide you with two silver mines (apart from the obvious kickass auxiliaries).
Tolosa has a mine and a pre-built tier 1 (which you can upgrade to tier 2) sea port (and a few goodies).
Same for Burdigala, except the mine of course. Tolosa can also have a tier 2 military port.
Darioritum can be taken easily and comes with a pre-built tier 2 port, which can be upgraded to tier 3.
Massilia has a pre-built tier 1 port which can be upgraded to tier 3 with a Type I or II government. Unfortunately, Aedui can only have a Type III government in Massilia, which only allows for tier 2. Also, the Romans love Massilia, so you'll need to develop your MICs there (native one first, since it has Botroas and other choppy blokes) and possibly crank out some Sphendonetai.

[Arjos]

With Keltoi, all you need are 3-4 Botroas or Bataroas and 1 FL or FH, with that set-up you can conquer all Gallia, with the enemy sallying forth...
It's not even funny, poor AI, how much we abused it XD

As athanaric pointed out, what matters are mines and ports; cut expenses on units that you really don't need, sticking to Iaosatae and Bataroas...

[Blxz]

Indeed. Cutting expenses is the main thing here. Once you get some development going in 20 years or so down the track then the heavy units can come pouring out. Until then you are looking at family member cavalry and smallish armies of low level troops. Often lowering taxes is worth more than higher taxes with a larger garrison in the early game.

And don't be afraid to go into some massive debt. Its easy enough to get 20K or so in debt but if you use that time fighting and taking a few cities your cost goes down and income goes up. Just get it slightly positive and then stay alive.

[athanaric]

What I actually meant to say (it probably came out wrong) is that you can't (or shouldn't) afford many Leuce Epos and Bataroas in early game. Although both units are so cost-efficient it isn't even funny. Apart from the lack of AP units, the Gauls also lack good spearmen in early game - those Lugoae are useful, but they aren't very versatile or reliable compared to other spearmen. Gaeroas are better, but only available in some border regions. This tempts the human player to abuse Bataroas, which leads to slightly derpy stacks of several units of longswordsmen with little else attached except for slingers. Thus, I'm always torn between my interpretation of historical accuracy (more spearmen) and efficient gameplay. It gets better with Gaelaiche, of course. But then you'll lose the chariots...

[Intranetusa]

I'm surprised that people are saying Spain is hard to play and doesn't have good elites. I thought they had the heaviest elites of any barbarian faction and on average the heaviest rank and file troops? They also have heavy cavalry lancers.

The Lusotannans have Ambakaro, Loricati Scutari, and Dunaminica - all elite infantry with heavy armor and I think all or 2 of them have AP weaponry. And they have the Dosidataskeli (or did the EB v1.2 remove them), the heaviest heavy infantry in the game with the best armor except with the exception of the Seleucid version of heavily armored Elite Spearmen.

[The Stranger]

the dosidataskeli are better than the seleukid version in all aspects. but ye they were taken out in 1.2

[ViriathusTheDestroyer]

I'm surprised that people are saying Spain is hard to play and doesn't have good elites. I thought they had the heaviest elites of any barbarian faction and on average the heaviest rank and file troops? They also have heavy cavalry lancers.

The Lusotannans have Ambakaro, Loricati Scutari, and Dunaminica - all elite infantry with heavy armor and I think all or 2 of them have AP weaponry. And they have the Dosidataskeli (or did the EB v1.2 remove them), the heaviest heavy infantry in the game with the best armor except with the exception of the Seleucid version of heavily armored Elite Spearmen.

I've been using them on very hard/medium and their very effective, It's just I don't think most people know how to use them right.

Basically almost all of your (early) troops are skirmisher/infantry hybrids which means using them for just one role won't be the most effective. I place my like infantry in front (fire at will on), and then have my dedicated skirmishers in back throwing there jav as the enemy approaches once there out of javelins I use them as surprisingly effective reserve infantry.Slingers too are really useful for attacking towns as the AI is so dumb they just stand their while they get pounded by lead or and rocks.

The general cav are pretty bad for head on attacks , but there useful for skirmishing and be used to distract enemy units by having them chase after you.