Parenthood and Gaming: Compatability?

Hey all!

My wife and I are expecting our first kid in a few weeks. We're very excited and nervous.

We're also (finally) investing in another high-end computer after several years of making do, and will have the ability to play M:TW 2 and presumably E:TW (and some other games I've had my eye on for awhile).

My question is directed towards any parents out there who are addicted to strategy games or gaming in general. Should I simply hang up my general's hat for the time being and resign myself to battling dirty diapers/nappies in the name of good parenting? I'm assuming I won't have time to indulge in one of my favorite hobbies for many many months (or years) to come.

I know a lot of young parents, but none of them are gamers, so any insights, tips an tricks, or AARs would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Guillaume

Hmm, I can only relate my experience, so for what it's worth:

• Forget about MMOs. There's no way you can square the time commitment with parenting.
• Short hits are good. Games that you can save and quit at any moment will be your friends.
• Strategy games can be played, but in stages, over many nights. You ain't gonna play a Total War game for twelve hours straight for a long time.

Hope this is helpful ...

Ignore your kids till they are about eight or nine and start to talk, read books and play computer games. Enjoy those precious first hours of sociable gaming, the innocence and exhilaration of discovery, the pitter-patter of little fingers on the keyboard. Because within a year or two they will beat the living crap out of you in every online scenario.

And that's the truth. :yes:


*father of two*

I have no kids as of yet, but I don't see where having one precludes any gaming- certainly not early on. I actually used to play WoW with a guy who would take afk breaks to change/feed their newborn. I'm not saying that's how you should handle things, but it can be done. :beam:

Lemur's got the gist of it. You want games you can play in 1/2 hour or less. You're going to be surprised by just how great Spider solitaire is. I do still occassionally play MTW, but I rarely have the time to get past 1120 or so.

I never even tried to play World of Warcraft or anything like that. I just wouldn't know where to begin. Aside from which, Mrs. Corleone would definitely have something to say about it, and I like breathing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Lemur's got the gist of it. You want games you can play in 1/2 hour or less. You're going to be surprised by just how great Spider solitaire is. I do still occassionally play MTW, but I rarely have the time to get past 1120 or so.

I never even tried to play World of Warcraft or anything like that. I just wouldn't know where to begin. Aside from which, Mrs. Corleone would definitely have something to say about it, and I like breeding.

---

Yea, I'm a horrible person. :laugh4:

Why not do it like the austrians?

Lock the bugger up for 24 years. Problem solved ~:)

Short and easily-saveable at a moment's notice is very, very good.

Also, I the amount & placement of gaming time depends almost entirely on the rhythm of your household. I've been through it with four kids, and with each it's different. How easily the child goes to sleep, whether your wife breastfeeds or not, how susceptible your wife is to the soporific baby effect ~:), whether your wife thinks it's peachy for you to play rather than do the dishes/laundry, whether she herself is a gamer, etc etc.

The main idea is, pick games that allow you to be incredibly flexible with when and how long you play. MMOs are absolutely antithetical to this, so as Lemur said, don't even try them.

Oh, and congratulations and good luck to you!

Quote:

---

Forget about MMOs. There's no way you can square the time commitment with parenting.

---

MMOs ????even a small multiplayer game can get to be impossible .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adrian II

Ignore your kids till they are about eight or nine[...]

---

I would like you to expand on this. :inquisitive:
As it is it sounds rather harsh and I have to try hard not to make it sound cruel. :sweatdrop:


I guess Lemur has some good advice, not like I have any kids but that doesn't mean I don't know anything about them. (been one myself before as well!) :sweatdrop:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Husar

I would like you to expand on this. :inquisitive:

---

It's simple really.

Just pretend they're not there and then they won't bother you in the least. They aren't there anyway, as humans I mean, only clinically but not consciously. Of course the critters need food and cuddling and all that, but if you want that done there are always some of these characters around to take care of it, I forgot what they're called. Women, that's it. Aha.

Now, when they are around the age of nine or so (the kids I mean, not the women), there will come a glorious morning when they come down the stairs all washed and dressed, say 'Good morning', sit down, eat breakfast, pull your sleeve and - here it comes - demand to discuss the news with you.

As of that moment, you are a father. :yes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adrian II

It's simple really.

Just pretend they're not there and then they won't bother you in the least. They aren't there anyway, as humans I mean, only clinically but not consciously. Of course the critters need food and cuddling and all that, but if you want that done there are always some of these characters around to take care of it, I forgot what they're called. Women, that's it. Aha.

Now, when they are around the age of nine or so (the kids I mean, not the women), there will come a glorious morning when they come down the stairs all washed and dressed, say 'Good morning', sit down, eat breakfast, pull your sleeve and - here it comes - demand to discuss the news with you.

As of that moment, you are a father. :yes:

---

:laugh4: I wonder what Holland was like in the 50's. Oh wait...

Parenthood and gaming you say?

Yeah... let me tell you a story.

Back in August we get Otis, a six-week old Blonde Lab. I didn't want the dog but the kids wanted it big time. "When can we bring Otis home?" That's all I hear for weeks. Fine, we spend the $350 and bring the puppy home.

Puppy grows up, and six months later the kids don't find Otis as cute as before and Otis now exists as a child-neglected dog.

A few weeks ago I'm in the kitchen and my 10 year-old is sitting on the couch playing with something. I go over and see. "What's that?" I ask. "It's a Nintendo DSD." (Or whatever.) "Wha'cha playing," I ask. "' "It's a dog game," she says, "you have a dog and you have to take care of it. You have to walk it and feed it and everything."

Excuse me? :inquisitive:

So the kids won't walk Otis and barely ever feed him, but now they have these bloody DSD Gameboy games with digital dogs (blonde labs!) and they walk them and feed them and you can even use a special pen that comes with the thing to pat the ******* dog! You can even talk to the game and tell the dog to sit. ARRRRGGH!

So, a few night ago, I'm back in the kitchen, the two kids are on the floor patting and feeding and walking the digital dog, and Otis is lying behind them looking as sad as a labrador possibly can. And that's pretty sad.

Parent's and gaming? Prepare to go insane.

(I told them they have to play the dog game where I can't see or hear them because I will throw that bloody gameboy right out the window the next time I see them patting a digital dog while the real one is lying at their feet neglected and unwalked.)

Axe time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beirut

I will throw that bloody gameboy right out the window the next time [..]

---

You mean you haven't done that yet? :stunned:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adrian II

You mean you haven't done that yet? :stunned:

---

I'd use the splitting maul from the Firewood thread. Two words my kids are going to learn: Daddy's mean!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vladimir

I'd use the splitting maul from the Firewood thread. Two words my kids are going to learn: Daddy's mean!

---

Yeah, I remember that maul. It looked like you could split an average kid in two clean halves with that thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adrian II

Yeah, I remember that maul. It looked like you could split an average kid in two clean halves with that thing.

---

Well he can keep the kids. Perhaps it's best to use the DS as a tool to teach responsibility and humane behavior.

Humane, not civilized mind you. :toff:

The first few years might be tricky. You will just have to be firm but fair. Tell your wife that you can't change the nappy since you are in the middle of a battle, but agree to take care of it the next two times.

Once the baby gets to 4 or 5, give it a Game Boy or something simple and it will stay quiet (well at least I would if I was a 5 year old). And then once its older it can play more advanced games and as long as its doesn't steal your PC then everyones happy.

As a child of the modern nightmare, I feel obliged to impart the following:

There is no reason whatsoever to bring video games, or computers in general, into your child's life.They will do nothing but distract you from what is important, i.e. the sack of screaming meat that shall soon lay before you. As unappealing as it may be, give it the attention it deserves. And the other thing you have to remember is that it will turn out weird, no matter what. Do not blame yourself. It is at least partly the fault of the sack of meat. I, myself, was one of the worst children imaginable, but I turned out far better than my parents could have ever expected.

But, anyway, about the video games: forget all about them. They are ancillary. If you get a chance, go ahead, but remember that you have dedicated yourself to the primary purpose of life: passing on your genes. And what's more, since you are human, you just might be able to pass on parts of what's in your mind as well.

Good luck. :2thumbsup:

Edit: I just want to add my opinion on video games... keep them the hell away from your kid. All they do is distract the kid from real life.

I just asked my kid what that stupid dog game is called... Nintendogs. Can you believe it?

Wiki even has it listed, look at this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendogs

I could scream.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beirut

I just asked my kid what that stupid dog game is called... Nintendogs. Can you believe it?

Wiki even has it listed, look at this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendogs

I could scream.

---

Beirut.

Smash that *darn* gaming system with a *freakin* sledgehammer and throw your kids out into the yard with a soccer ball or something. Get them the hell outside now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beirut

I just asked my kid what that stupid dog game is called... Nintendogs. Can you believe it?

Wiki even has it listed, look at this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendogs

I could scream.

---

Beirut, I take it all back. About the maul, that was just a joke. Forget it.

Sit down, buddy, relax, and brea-eathe out.. there you go. Now, get the kids a nice glass of limonade to divert their attention from that fu silly game, and talk to them. They'll be reasonable, you'll see. :sweatdrop:

Quote:

---

Puppy grows up, and six months later the kids don't find Otis as cute as before and Otis now exists as a child-neglected dog.

---

Beirut , only buy your kids pets that are tasty .
The moment they neglect it cook it .

I have some great games for you to play:

Pokemon (one of my all-time top 2 game franchises)
Pikmin (the same guys who made mario, zelda, pokemon-engineering for kids)
Zelda (any one of the games)
Age of Empires (responsible for my obsession with ancient cultures)\

It will get you into being a dad.

(i wrote this post about games for kids before reading the title)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Beirut , only buy your kids pets that are tasty .
The moment they neglect it cook it .

---

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_cuisine

Thanks for the great feedback... and Beruit, my wife and I both laughed out loud at your tale of utter frustration. Classic.

Well, with one baby you can probably find time here and there to do the occasional game. As with my luck, having twins, I've forgone the gaming altogether and get some strategy relief if I can balance my time to get a snippet of whats going on online.

I play RTW very occasionally and most of the time it is auto-resolve on the battles (unless I want to kill a heir or leader).

Kids suck up time and you will need extra sleep to cope with their irregular sleeping patterns and knack of waking up every couple of hours and then they get up fresh faced in the morning long before you are ready. I hear that the teenage years is when you get that revenge.

Trying to get some time into paint minatures... no.

Console games are a blessing, except when he wanders in from playing with the Aunts and wants to take over Daddy or Uncles Rainbow Six operative. At two he can make the gun go bang. I'm sure at ten I will be hiding from him in cover and spray and pray to beat as he deftly picks me off with a pistol snipe.

So anything that has quicksave and can be stopped and packed quickly are good.

And it is best if you get them outdoors and playing games they like and exhaust them if you want them nice and sleepy at night.

Mars , did you miss the word "Tasty" in my post ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Mars , did you miss the word "Tasty" in my post ?

---

Nope. ~;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beirut

I just asked my kid what that stupid dog game is called... Nintendogs. Can you believe it?

Wiki even has it listed, look at this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendogs

I could scream.

---

I've actually played the game, it didn't really hold my interest, but it's very well done. FWIW, Nintendogs is a hugely popular game and for a time it was actually driving sales of DS systems maybe even contributing to the system's dominance, so it's no surprise that your kids would like it.

To tie that in with the original topic, the Nintendo DS would probably be an excellent choice for a gaming parent to get their fix in. Most games allow you to save and quit at virtually any time and even if you can't, just closing it puts it in sleep mode where you can safely leave it for hours without running out the batteries.

The DS has been a real lifesaver for me. When waiting in the Clinic Lobby while Mom watches the twins get a shot, or a health check-up... and of Course in my blasphemous ways, when I'm forced to attend Church, I usually sit in the very back pew farthest from the aisle, slip on my earbuds and play Zelda. :laugh4: Nintendogs never really interested me, I'm going to wait a couple of years before even considering getting a dog... a well behaved Cat is miles easier to take care of with two little kids.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Beirut , only buy your kids pets that are tasty .
The moment they neglect it cook it .

---

Yes. I'm sure you know all about cooking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adrian II

It's simple really.

Just pretend they're not there and then they won't bother you in the least. They aren't there anyway, as humans I mean, only clinically but not consciously. Of course the critters need food and cuddling and all that, but if you want that done there are always some of these characters around to take care of it, I forgot what they're called. Women, that's it. Aha.

---

Won't work. Women today are smart. It's like they've got a mind of their own.

Apart from that, very good template. :laugh4:

You can also stay up all night playing RTW and taking care of the boy. The Lost Souls song may scare your baby, so whatever you do:
1)Take care of the baby
2)Take care of the army
3)Make sure he is fine
4)Make sure the army is fine
5)Make sure he has everything
6)Make sure you click the end turn button
And the list goes.

As a young person, and a frequent game player I urge new parents to not let the kids play games.

I am happy with my life, but I'm aware it could be so much better if I didnt spend half my time playing games on the PC or Wii or whatever.

If you do, strictly regulate it. Please.

My life could be so much boring if I didn't have any games to play, actually right now I don't feel like playing any and already I'm posting in this pathetic place, even thinking about opening a new topic. :no:
I mean where are kids supposed to play nowadays? In the wilderness you have insects and other animals trying to eat them and in those concrete blocks we call cities one can hardly play. :shrug:
Computers are the modern way to enjoy nature insect-free.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

No I really don't like insects a lot. :sweatdrop:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pevergreen

As a young person, and a frequent game player I urge new parents to not let the kids play games.

I am happy with my life, but I'm aware it could be so much better if I didnt spend half my time playing games on the PC or Wii or whatever.

If you do, strictly regulate it. Please.

---

I think the point (for kids or adults) is to keep life varied, as much as is possible. There have been times I have played games morning, noon, and night, and while that can be fun, I enjoy life much more when I also try something new or do things for other people.

More relevant, however, is what the missus thinks. And that means game time (the kids and mine) most definitely will be limited! :laugh4:

Guillaume

I'm no parent, but from how my parents brought up me, I'd agree whole-heartedly with keeping kids away from video games. But, don't make it a rigid strict thing, that'll just make them want to play them more, it'll breed rebelliousness. Get some LEGO or a football for them to play with when they reach 4+. Teach responsibility, etc. When your kids get into games (which they will) make sure the games that interest them require the use of imagination, etc. And always give good reasons for any decision you make.

The simplest way to regulate what your kids buy is to always make sure you buy it or you go with them when they buy the stuff and make sure that both you and your spouse agree on what is allowed and what is not. If one of you two is there you can put in the veto if you think something is not necessary, etc.

Overall, don't worry too much. If you act right, they'll end up alright.

As pever said, regulate your children about gaming. You should try to keep them away from computers until they have the age to be responsible of choosing if they want to do it or not. Maybe your children don't like it, and that would be good for them. You know, pc is a brain-killer. I can tell you from my own experience.

Or maybe they like it, and I would not ban them the pc or the gaming consoles. Just make sure they do other kind of activities, because we all know that sedentarism is a bad thing. I walk like 45 mins 3 or 4 days a week, play tennis twice 1 hour, and have P.E. from school. Those are my exercises. And I know it isnt still healty.

I started to use a computer at the age of 5. Since then, I have been using it. My eyes are in not a good shape, and I'm not still using lens. And this day this is getting worse.

So, thats why I think gaming should be restricted to a certain extent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caius

1)Take care of the army
2)Take care of the baby
3)Make sure the army is fine
4)Make sure he is fine
5)Make sure you click the end turn button
6)Make sure he has everything
And the list goes.

---

Fixed it for you.

I really don't think it is a good idea to regulate your kids gaming. If you are the type of parent who is more laid back and lets their kids go out, then they will do that and be better for it.

But if you want to raise cotton wool kids then its not fair to regulate things like gaming since they will be bored out of their mind. You can't dump them in the house with nothing to do. :no:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

Fixed it for you.

I really don't think it is a good idea to regulate your kids gaming. If you are the type of parent who is more laid back and lets their kids go out, then they will do that and be better for it.

But if you want to raise cotton wool kids then its not fair to regulate things like gaming since they will be bored out of their mind. You can't dump them in the house with nothing to do. :no:

---

As your occupation is listed as astronaut, I assume you don't spend much time on Earth and have little time for procreation. But for those us bound by gravity and children, I assure you, parenthood is all about regulation, lest your children cross the street without looking while playing with matches given to them by a stranger they talked to because they ate too much sugar.

As for not dumping them in a house with nothing to do, they can do what all us old farts did prior to Pong; play with toys and read books.

Quote:

---

Yes. I'm sure you know all about cooking.

---

Why should I know anything about cooking ? thats womens work that is ,and the reason it is womens work is because sheep have difficultly using the utensils .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Why should I know anything about cooking ? thats womens work that is ,and the reason it is womens work is because sheep have difficultly using the utensils .

---

Oh Christ... :shame: :laugh4:

I didn't get my first gaming system until I was 14 ~:mecry: so I had to preoccupy myself with boring things like waking up at 6:00 am to go fishing down at the creek, Hike up to the old Microwave Tower by noon, go down the hill and exploring the Lime Stone Formations by 1:00, walk across another hill, and down onto the railroad tracks and back home by 3:00. Those were terrible... terrible times. :laugh4:

Perhaps I will be showing my daughters a bit of humility growing up. The Computer is Dads... you may not use the computer unless I have given you permission, after you have lived out your childhood, I may just then consider giving you a taste of technology. but in the mean time, go outside and have fun. damn it.

I think a small amount of time on the computer is ok from about the age of 7-8 or something, be careful though Grizzly ended up using the thing close to 8 hours a day from the age of 13 to about 17, i managed to go out as well but that meant there was barely any time left over for school.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beirut

As your occupation is listed as astronaut, I assume you don't spend much time on Earth and have little time for procreation. But for those us bound by gravity and children, I assure you, parenthood is all about regulation, lest your children cross the street without looking while playing with matches given to them by a stranger they talked to because they ate too much sugar.

As for not dumping them in a house with nothing to do, they can do what all us old farts did prior to Pong; play with toys and read books.

---

Do not mock my occupation after I spent a decade training, I find your tone both offensive and unecessary.

Obviously you don't let your children go talk to the old man with the sweets, but I think they should be given some flexibilty.

For example don't switch the PC off at the socket after they've been on it for half and hour, or refuse to let them go to friends houses and things like that. And giving them pocket money is good since it gives them a bit of independence.

I think not letting your kids out to play is one of the worst things you can do to a kid, they need to be out and about socialising with kids thier own age, kicking a football or on thier bikes...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

I think not letting your kids out to play is one of the worst things you can do to a kid, they need to be out and about socialising with kids thier own age, kicking a football or on thier bikes...

---

:yes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beirut

As your occupation is listed as astronaut, I assume you don't spend much time on Earth and have little time for procreation. But for those us bound by gravity and children, I assure you, parenthood is all about regulation, lest your children cross the street without looking while playing with matches given to them by a stranger they talked to because they ate too much sugar.

As for not dumping them in a house with nothing to do, they can do what all us old farts did prior to Pong; play with toys and read books.

---

Astronauts are not bound by gravity? Stop spreading such lies. ~;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viking

Astronauts are not bound by gravity? Stop spreading such lies. ~;)

---

He's not wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

He's not wrong.

---

Please tell my why the astronauts are circling around Earth then? ~:confused: Could it be that the octosquids are pulling on them? :laugh4:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viking

Please tell my why the astronauts are circling around Earth then? ~:confused: Could it be that the octosquids are pulling on them? :laugh4:

---

We are not allowed to discuss such matters. Although there is an octosquid orbiting the earth right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

We are not allowed to discuss such matters. Although there is an octosquid orbiting the earth right now.

---

Why not?

:dancinglock:

Thread locked.

All hail the octosquid.

Thread locked? Still letting me post so here it goes...

I got hooked on computer games when I was around 10 (Good ol Empire Earth). Without computer games, I wouldnt be nearly as interested in history or books as I am now. I wouldnt be a atheist, I wouldnt know anything about politics or what the hell is beyond my world.

I had some friends down the street who liked computer games, but when they played for so much, theyre parents told them to get the hell outside. Do whatever they want, just go outside. I wish my parents wouldve told me that. I had next to nil social skills in middle school. I still havent had a girlfriend (10th grade now). And this is the first year my skin color has changed color from "pale" or "ghostly white".

Long story short: Please dont make the same mistake my parents did, kick your kids off the game console every once in a while (not all the time). 20+ hours of gaming a week is not healthy growing up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by holybandit

Thread locked? Still letting me post so here it goes...

---

Just to be clear for members who wish to contribute - the thread has not been locked.

Caledonian Rhyfelwyr was just teasing.

:bow:

Haha sorry if I've kept some people from posting. :sweatdrop:

Anyway, from my experience the kind of parents that feel the need to control their children's time on the PC also tend to be the kind that like to keep them locked up and nice and safe in the house.

As I got older, I was allowed more time on my PC, but they were still too strict about actually doing anything outside. So by the time I was about 17 I could play my PC all day though it was such a fuss seing a friend and usually ended in such humilitation that I basically gave up and decided it would be easier to be reclusive.

So, I'm a bit like you holybandit, in that I have absolutedly no social skills (which is making it impossible for me to get a job), and I'm pretty pale looking (although most gingernuts in Scotland tend to be anyway).

Quote:

---

Anyway, from my experience the kind of parents that feel the need to control their children's time on the PC also tend to be the kind that like to keep them locked up and nice and safe in the house.

---

That would be a limited experience you have then since my kids are very strictly limited in their PC time and TV time and like most of their friends are out and about most of their spare time .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

Haha sorry if I've kept some people from posting. :sweatdrop:

Anyway, from my experience the kind of parents that feel the need to control their children's time on the PC also tend to be the kind that like to keep them locked up and nice and safe in the house.

As I got older, I was allowed more time on my PC, but they were still too strict about actually doing anything outside. So by the time I was about 17 I could play my PC all day though it was such a fuss seing a friend and usually ended in such humilitation that I basically gave up and decided it would be easier to be reclusive.

So, I'm a bit like you holybandit, in that I have absolutedly no social skills (which is making it impossible for me to get a job), and I'm pretty pale looking (although most gingernuts in Scotland tend to be anyway).

---

Errr, I said I used to have no social skills and my skin was pretty pale. Not so much anymore, the only thing that really lags my social life is my small stuttering problem and sometimes talking too much (funny heh?).

Though in the end I think it is paying off. My parents like me spending alot of time with friends, so I can stay out till the legal curfew (11PM) while most of my friends have a much earlier curfew.

Sorry for pulling the topic off topic. I just had to tell my previous post to someone, couldnt keep it bottled up.

EDIT: I got a warning I didnt read before posting this. Delete this post if you want mods.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/kids/9b11/

If you are letting your kid to play videogames.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemur

Hmm, I can only relate my experience, so for what it's worth:

• Forget about MMOs. There's no way you can square the time commitment with parenting.
• Short hits are good. Games that you can save and quit at any moment will be your friends.
• Strategy games can be played, but in stages, over many nights. You ain't gonna play a Total War game for twelve hours straight for a long time.

Hope this is helpful ...

---

Though I'm not a parent, I do disagree here.

Back when I played WoW, I knew (and still know) a lot of parent that played WoW and/or other MMORPG's.

Thing is, you have to be careful with it. While some of them were undoubtedly good parents (as in, only playing at night, 2 or 3 times a week, and being ready to stop playing whenever was needed), some others where hardcore no-lifers, and I couldn't stop thinking "what the hell is your kid doing if you spend 10 hours a day working and then come back only to play that darn game ? Do you even remember that you actually have a child ?".

I seriously wanted to slap those in the face.