Metal Gear Solid Series

Ahhh... the famed tactical espionage action that is Metal Gear Solid. To coincide with the release of the fourth installment I decided to make this thread.

I'm a fairly big fan, but not crazed lunatic sort of fan, of the series. A mate of mine has recently found out that MGS4 is a highly anticipated game but before he plays it, he'd like to play the others first. He asked me what game to play through first, then second etc. I really didn't have much to say to him, I suggested playing the first if at all possible to get hold of, if not go for the second and then third because of all the references to the earlier installments. But I don't think he cares all too much about the story, rather the action to be held.

My question is this: What should I recommend him to play first?
As for the fourth installment, I hear it will have a 90min cutscene, any truth to this, or merely rumours? :inquisitive:

The other day I was talking to a friend on Xbox Live about MGS. I was young when I played the first 2 and barely remember the key elements of the story, and I never even got the third one!

Its a damn shame the 4th will only be on PS3, I would love to get it on 360. Fortunately my brother has a PS3 so I could still get it.

Make sure your friend plays the first one first because there were significant changes in the playstyle for MGS2. The first person aim for example makes stepping back to MGS1 gameplay difficult. Also the story goes MGS1 --- MGS2 ---- MGS4 with only a few years between each in terms of the story. I believe MGS3 doesn't add anything majorly important to the story so it could be skipped out, although like I say I haven't played it. I think it just shows how some of the characters came around like Ocelot and Big Boss.

The following is the cronological order that the MGS games should be played in if your friend wants to experience the story from beginning to (sort of) end:
1. Metal Gear Solid 3
2. Metal Gear Solid
3. Metal Gear Solid 2
4. Metal Gear Solid 4

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Originally Posted by Raz

As for the fourth installment, I hear it will have a 90min cutscene, any truth to this, or merely rumours? :inquisitive:

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Haven't heard anything about this, but I doubt it's true.


~ Your friendly neighborhood Metal Gear master

Do I need to remind you people about spoilers? :hairpin2:

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Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae

Do I need to remind you people about spoilers? :hairpin2:

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I didn't reveal anything, I just listed the chronological order of the storyline in the games. :embarassed:

Edit: Oh, wait. Thought you were referring to me, after that incident in the GTA IV thread. My mistake. :sweatdrop:

It's more fun playing them in a chronological order but all the games can stand on their own. The newbie will miss a few ' thank you for playing the previous games' inside jokes and you will probably wonder why fans say character x has so much depth (just nod) but none of that should stop anyone from just enjoying the games in whatever order. Great series, no other game gets away with being so horribly pretentious yet shamelessly gamy like the Metal Gears.

Personally, I prefer playing them in the order they were released. MGS1 - MGS2 - MGS3 - MGS4

That way the "Oh wow!" factor is much better when playing MGS3 when you find out who they were and what happened leading up to MGS1.

Another vote for playing in order of release. As a rule going to play a game with fewer features, clunkier controls and uglier graphics immediately after the newer entries is not a smooth experience.

I presume we are talking about MGS PS1 edition as opposed to MSG gamecube edition? It's possible that complete newbies to the series might get along better with the gamecube remake. I confess that I don't understand the rabid hatred for the gamecube version; it's the same game redone so it stands on a par with MGS2 in terms of looks and features.

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Originally Posted by Raz

As for the fourth installment, I hear it will have a 90min cutscene, any truth to this, or merely rumours?

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This rumour surfaced a couple of weeks ago. According to IGN's review, Konami have banned anyone from talking about the length of the cutscenes in reviews of MGS4. Eurogamer's review contains lines such as "Hours of talking head exposition", and "An unbelievably lengthy and self-indulgent epilogue - you can't call it a cut-scene, it's an entire film in its own right". That, and the fact the cutscenes in the last MGS game I played accounted for over half my total playtime, and I have no trouble believing it.

MGS. Like the gameplay, love the little touches casually thrown into the game world, loathe the nonsensical plots and "sit still while we talk at you!" idea of story telling.

I didn't like the GC version since I wasn't really that in tune with the controller. I was more used to the PSX controller.

Hehe, the first time I played MGS1 it was the PC version. The stick based movement controls did not translate well to a keyboard. :sweatdrop:

PC ports don't sit too well with me after the fiasco of FFVII

Lol, that's how I first played FFVII. My very first JRPG, and my first big exposure to manga of any style. 70 hours of battling to select the option I wanted because the menu cursor perpetually scrolled up one position every couple of seconds. I did FFVIII this way too, and skipped IX because it didn't get the port. I never had a PS1.



How many people here will be getting MGS4? There don't seem to be many PS3 owners on the org. I haven't played MGS3 at all yet; I need to do that first.

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

How many people here will be getting MGS4? There don't seem to be many PS3 owners on the org. I haven't played MGS3 at all yet; I need to do that first.

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Still haven't found someone who wants to pay me that much for my sister, but it shall be mine. Anyone played the original Metal Gears by the way? Was awesome then is awesome now.

I got my first touch on to the series by borrowing Metal Gear Solid for PSOne from my friend. Never had the time to finish the game and probably never will, I think it's hard to find it at the moment. I definitely liked it and enjoyed it as far as I got, got to a point to fight with the Psycho Mantis. I like the story (mainly the plot and the way it was told), the voice acting and the cut scenes.

Then bought MGS2: Substance for Xbox, played it through and the game is great. But that's it, no PS2, PSP or PS3 for me, so no more MGS games also. Damn, I would love to play those games because of the story, the music, cut scenes all that.

I hate it when they distribute series on many different platforms, so that it becomes even harder to follow the story. I understand that the MGS: Portable Ops has a lot about the story in it. Looking at the way it was done with the Resident Evil series, makes me want to smack somebody :drama1: . Because I love the settings in those games.

Then again MGS series has some of that over the top sci-fi and the gameplay isn't quite there for me. Looks like the gameplay in the MGS4 is very good.

One of the things about the series is that the music composed for the MGS2, 3 and 4 is some of the best in the games. Soundtracks are beautiful.

There's a taster of the Edge review online here. They say

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The cutscenes here are sure to invoke that thousand-yard stare, two in particular coming perilously close to the 90-minute mark.

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:help:

The cut scenes. I'm sure that you can skip them right away and continue to play.

Don't like them or don't like them for a fact being that long. Do not buy the game.

Anyone starting even remotely to complain or whine about them looks ludicrous. 90 minutes is a lot, and it would be horrible to think if there isn't a way to watch those cut scenes like you can watch any movies. Stop, rewind, pause all that.

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Do I need to remind you people about spoilers?

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Yes, yes you did :sweatdrop: sorry :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

How many people here will be getting MGS4? There don't seem to be many PS3 owners on the org.

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Long cutscenes or not, I'll be getting it, but probably after the release. Guess I'm a minority here (a PS3 owner). :laugh4:
And playing Twin Snakes (the subtitle given to the GC remake) with the GC controller is actually managable, despite the lack of pressure sensetivity (meaning there's actually a button that functions as a weapon safety for when you want to lower your gun without firing it!) given enough time to familiarize yourself. Plus there were some pretty wicked ending cutscenes for all but a few of the boss battles.

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Originally Posted by Praxil

Don't like them or don't like them for a fact being that long. Do not buy the game.Anyone starting even remotely to complain or whine about them looks ludicrous.

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When dismissing the issue so aggressively spare a thought for the people who enjoy the gameplay but don't want/have time to sit through 90 minutes of Snake wailing on about the meaning of being a soldier? That's me. I want to play the game. I like the game. I don't like the incoherent wannabe film, and 90 minutes is longer than my average play session.

You can't skip the cutscenes in any of the MGS games I've played. You couldn't pause or rewind them either. Is it something they introduced post MGS2? A skip button would make everyone happy.

If there is a way to skip them then I'll be happy. Otherwise I'll leave it running while I read a book and wait to take control back, same as I did with MGS2 after the plot went to la li lu la land. When I get around to playing it.

NB: It's mainly MGS2 which makes me feel this way. MGS1 was daft and long-winded but tolerable.

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

There's a taster of the Edge review online here. They say


:help:

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90 minutes ??
And 2 of them ??
They can't be serious.
In Lost Odyssey one cutscene was like 15 minutes and that was too long(despite it being a awesome cutscene, it's a game and I wanna play, not watch a movie).
You could skip it thankfully but you miss out on the story.

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

You can't skip the cutscenes in any of the MGS games I've played.

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I can skip all of the cut scenes, including all the dialogue (a bit of button mashing) in the MGS2 - Substance (Xbox). I don't remember how it was in the MGS1 however. Since it is possible to skip them in MGS2 - Substance, I bet that you can do that in any later MGS editions. Simply pushing one of the main buttons does the trick.

Lets assume that those cut scenes are good, just like they were in latest games. You only pay for a game (a copy exactly), not for how much content it has (measured for example in minutes). I think that it is stupid to whine about that you get too much of it, the content. I mean for a $60, the more the better for me. It can also be the way that you wont get any of the cut scenes in the game at all, well you're still paying that same price.

This is weird, because you can hear these gaming editors saying that some of the cut scenes are that long. However, none of them mentions on how you are able to watch them. It is like, "OMG, 90 min I can't take it!". Well, can you skip them or watch them later? "No comment on that, definitely can't say anything on that, but OMG 90 min!".

I have the PS2 version of the game and you cannot skip them. The xbox version has many changes from the PS2 version. You couldn't skip them in either of the version of MGS1 I played. MGS3, MGS1 gamecube and MGS portable ops are still untouched on my pile, waiting for the grand MGS series playthrough I intend to do one day.

It's a matter of taste as to whether the cutscenes are good or not. Taste varies. Some people will like them, others not. That's fine. It would be a boring world if we all liked the same things.

IMO the true content of any game is ... the game. The thing you play. That's why it's called a game. But again, that's a subjective view. Some people will disagree. You obviously do for a start. That's also fine.

TBH I'm not reading that many reviews; I never do. I'd prefer to play the game myself, and one day I will because I like the stealth gameplay. I'll buy the game whether you can skip them or not; I do own all of the games from MGS1 onwards, after all. Why exclude this one? I've seen reviewers say that you can control camera angle and zoom in via a remote control flying camera. You can circle around the characters and so on.

Please stop saying that those who disagree with your opinion on a matter of personal taste while discussing a certain aspect of a game are whiners and stupid. That's not terribly nice, to say the least. It is this I am disputing. There are valid reasons to dislike them, and valid reasons to like them.

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Originally Posted by Praxil

Lets assume that those cut scenes are good, just like they were in latest games. You only pay for a game (a copy exactly), not for how much content it has (measured for example in minutes). I think that it is stupid to whine about that you get too much of it, the content. I mean for a $60, the more the better for me. It can also be the way that you wont get any of the cut scenes in the game at all, well you're still paying that same price.

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Arguably, ninety minutes of cutscene is a loss in content compared to ninety minutes of gameplay...

I seem to remember that ' select' allows you skip to cutscenes in PS2 verion of MGS3 at least. But why would you :beam:

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

Arguably, ninety minutes of cutscene is a loss in content compared to ninety minutes of gameplay...

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Very true. To me, cut scenes of that length speak to weak game design. What is wrong with a game that it's incapable of relating the story via gameplay or any other method besides hour plus filibusters?

I like a good cinematic, but can not imagine sitting thru one's so long as is purported to be in this game. But if you skip them, then you're missing out on what I would imagine is much of the plot. :sweatdrop:

I like a well-made cutscene in any game, regardless of length. If the cutscenes in MGS won't be drawn out or badly done, I see no problem, even if they are the length of some films.

The cut movies can be skipped in the new MGS. It says so in the article that Lady Frog linked to.

Part 4 of Gametrailers MGS retrospective is up after some delays. One part to go, dealing with the two MGS Ac!d games on the PSP and the gameboy colour game. It's been good viewing.

When you look at the traits this series is best known for, outstanding boss battles always make the list. What are people's favourites? Use spoiler tags if necessary.

Psycho Mantis, due to the famous controller port swap and memory card reading. At the time that was so inventive.

Fatman. A fat man in armour on rollerskates. With bombs. And rollerskates.

Liquid Snake at the end of MGS1.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Punching that golden-haired "I'm your brother and I got all the crap genes, waaaa!" sap silly was more satisfying then it had any right to be.

I hope Ac!d 2 will get a good retrospective. I really liked that game once I warmed up to the card battle system. The secret is to not look at it as a Metal Gear canon game, but rather as a fun side-story, especially since...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

you don't play the real Solid Snake.

Once you get the Stinger missiles, it's easy to farm for cards on the moving train.

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

Please stop saying that those who disagree with your opinion on a matter of personal taste while discussing a certain aspect of a game are whiners and stupid. That's not terribly nice, to say the least.

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I didn't called anyone stupid or whiner.

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The cutscenes here are sure to invoke that thousand-yard stare, two in particular coming perilously close to the 90-minute mark.

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This is a comment, there is no value of an opinion in it. There is no opinion in there whatsoever, no "in my opinion I like that", or "in my opinion I dislike that". I took that comment like the editor had an heart attack. So, I commented on a comment because I find it funny, that is all. Also, that is not the only editor to bring out 89 minutes long cut scene somewhat like that, which by the way can be skipped.

Yes, I find that a stupid thing to do, but that doesn't make that editor stupid. We all do stupid things, mistakes, some of us more some of us less in daily basis things and issues. But that doesn't make us stupid now does it? Now however, if some person does same stupid thing continuously, some people will call those persons stupid.

I find it funny to whine (cry) about some cut scene, the length of it specifically because nothing has been said about its quality or anything else. Over a million kids die over something simply as diarrhea in each year. And some of the editors can't handle that length? Boo hoo man, get over yourself. Now, some one thinks "my god, I think you're exaggerating with this". Am I now, really? That's my whole point, I don't understand this drama and I find it funny. I see that as whining that's how I feel about it, if that makes me not a nice person then I guess I am not a nice person.

It is unprofessional to whine through review, that is not reviewing the game.

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

Arguably, ninety minutes of cutscene is a loss in content compared to ninety minutes of gameplay...

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Arguably? I didn't gave an option for ninety minutes of gameplay, I was talking about the cut scenes. Hey, you can take a sandwich over those cut scenes if you want to, good for you.

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Very true. To me, cut scenes of that length speak to weak game design. What is wrong with a game that it's incapable of relating the story via gameplay or any other method besides hour plus filibusters?

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Can't disagree more. Having long cut scenes does not speak of a weak game design. The length doesn't mean anything, now whether a cut scene is good or not that is the real issue. Also, if a cut scene is anything longer than 15 minutes, I expect ability to watch it like any full length movie (average 90 minutes). Because, if I got to stop and go do something else, then I got to go. If I already saw 45 minutes of it I really don't want to watch that 45 minutes of it again, just to see the rest of that cut scene.

What is wrong? What is wrong with what? Why every single game should include same formula of story telling? Why can't developers be creative? Maybe, the best way to tell the story in MGS4 is through the cut scenes, have you thought about that? Have you thought that there are some things you can't effectively tell trough gameplay? How you're going to tell some parts of the story through gameplay, like where Snake salutes someone's grave? I don't know what is in that 89 minutes, but if it works then I'm fine with that.

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Speaking of the gameplay, measured in minutes. Some people praise the length of Call of Duty 4 (roughly 5 hours), some people say that Grand Theft Auto IV is too short (roughly 30 hours). I don't see why long cut scene is an issue, because of its length.

Looking at the original post I doubt this is what Raz wanted for his topic. True, he asked about the 90 minute cutscene rumour, but the answer has become bigger than the topic itself.

Therefore all further discussion of cutscene size etc should go to a seperate topic. If anyone wants to start it it could be interesting if it included other games and became a more general topic on cutscenes and storytelling in games.

Otherwise, back to MGS itself here.


[...]


Praxil, please check your PM box.

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Originally Posted by Raz

Ahhh... the famed tactical espionage action that is Metal Gear Solid. To coincide with the release of the fourth installment I decided to make this thread.

I'm a fairly big fan, but not crazed lunatic sort of fan, of the series. A mate of mine has recently found out that MGS4 is a highly anticipated game but before he plays it, he'd like to play the others first. He asked me what game to play through first, then second etc. I really didn't have much to say to him, I suggested playing the first if at all possible to get hold of, if not go for the second and then third because of all the references to the earlier installments. But I don't think he cares all too much about the story, rather the action to be held.

My question is this: What should I recommend him to play first?
As for the fourth installment, I hear it will have a 90min cutscene, any truth to this, or merely rumours? :inquisitive:

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suggestion number one: go 1 2 3 4 lol tis the game layout and it should be your play layout...

suggestion number two: you better become a crazed fan because mgs is awsome..lol im not saying that i am one but my friend is he could tell you everything from the first installment to the last....by heart

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Originally Posted by Kamakazi

my friend is he could tell you everything from the first installment to the last....by heart

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He must play MGS almost as much as me, then. :laugh4:

The next part of the retrospective is up. I found it disappointing compared to the others; the previous episodes left me wanting to (re)play the games and this one didn't.

I don't remember the gameboy colour's sound effects being so beepy-bloopy and tinny, but otherwise it was as impressive as I recall. Wasn't it one of the most technically demanding games to appear on the console?

Wow, another 10 from Gamespot. Their journalistic qualities are staggering...~:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S.

Wow, another 10 from Gamespot. Their journalistic qualities are staggering...

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Probably the only place you'll see where they list an enthralling, well written story as one of the good things about the game, then see them call the storytelling heavy-handed like three lines later. :sweatdrop:

Just played a marathon of MGS4, took me less than two days to beat it (not that that's a bad thing, I've just always had a talent for whizzing through stealth games like MGS and Splinter Cell).

All I can say is... wow (and I don't mean World of Warcraft).


I won't say anymore, lest I want Kekvit or Frog adding me to their ****lists. :sweatdrop:

You can talk about spoilers provided they are in spoiler boxes ([ spoil] text [ /spoil] minus the spaces after the first brackets). Then no one can read them without wanting to. It'd probably a good idea to give a vague, spoiler free indication of the boxes contents outside of the spoiler box.

My copy of MGS4 is on the stack, waiting for me to finish a playthrough of the rest of the series. MGS1 playstation edition is done, MGS1 twin snakes is next.

You've finished it!? Wow, I've only just beat that laughing octopus woman. I'm having a ball on the game though, I highly recommend it to any fans of the series. There are a few people (or references) from previous games like Raiden but even if you're new, it's one heck of a game. Love the weapon customizations. :yes:

And of course, thanks for everyone on their help, I told my mate to play through Snake Eater first at least to give at least some backdrop, since MGS has always had a big web of a plot but if possible get the second as well. The first one is just a touch too difficult to get hold of these days so I didn't suggest that.

One can always dream for X360 version, but I think that would be a miracle if anything else. I'm sure that Sony is somehow involved in to MGS4, I think they paid something for it no doubt. Then it comes to that technical issue, where MGS4 is on Blu-ray. However, I think that could be solved with multiple DL DVD's though, like with MGS1 for PSOne witch has three CD's?. One thing is for sure that there are over million gamers with death presidents ready to buy MGS4 for X360. And I bet that Konami would love to take that money away from them in exchange...

Got to love these reviews where the reviewer starts to smack the game for the installation time required before you can play MGS4. Are you ****ing kidding me? How about for about 45 minutes when you patch Battlefield 2? This is ludicrous...