Pax Romanum - Interactive Romani AAR

Senate Message Board

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Welcome O' Senatores! This board will list all necessary information to keep the Senate organized and neat. It will be updated continuously, so it is advised you check everytime you enter the Senate House.

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Today's meeting started at n/a and will end at n/a. There are no time extensions as of yet.

Voting is closed for this meeting.

List of Current Senatores:
Not finished

Current Senate Office Listing:
Censors: Consuls: Praetors: Curule Aediles: Plebian Aediles: Quaestors: Military Tribunes: Plebian Tribunes:

Senate Offices

Today's topics of discussion:
Not finished

Current Mandates:
Not finished

Current Declarations:
Not finished

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I saw the idea a few months ago in another thread and have no clue if it is still on-going, but I think I will try it with a little variation on the rules.

The "game" is simple. The players, meaning whoever signs up, will take place as senators in a new campaign as the Romani. The Senate will be the one deciding the outcome of the entire AAR, at least as long as the Republic functions. Matters will arise, votes will take place, and outcomes will be affected accordingly. Now, these aren't "closed" subjects, either. Voting can take place on the tax of a province to declaring no army shall move in the winter. Anything that is possible in-game, even roleplaying wise, can be voted upon. We can have Senatorial debates, elections, etc.

The characters in-game (FM's) will be played be myself. Since there are 600 senators in the Senate, I don't think that me controlling 20 FM's is much of a problem, especially when the Senate can basically tell them what to do and when.

In order to have voting, i will take into account the number of people voting, and then randomly determine where the rest of the votes lie. Since the players will vote before the random part, the player's votes will have a bonus or negative effect on the random. So, if 90% of players out of 20 people vote on a subject, then the randomization will definatley lean towards the 90%, leaving room only for the chance that the vote barely fails.

For voting on topics such as offices, if the Senate votes for a particular family member to be Consul, then I will "cheat" and give said character the consul trait. This is of course to insure that the Senate chooses who does what, not just the game.

Players can also be elected to any offices, but if they wish to take command of a military, it will be roleplayed by a choice of "second in command", in which the Consul chooses a FM or captain to usher around his troops since he cannot be represented in game. If a player is Consul, he will still have full responsibility on where he places his troops and whatnot. Like I said, I will only control the FM's in-game..I will not restrict any senators unless they are out of context, in which I will make some random event to prevent said task.

I will leave it to you to find out what you need in order to be elected to certain offices, and what the offices do. It isn't my responsibilty to educate senators!

So, if anyone would like to join, please post your full Senator name(ie. Gaivs Ivlivs Caesar), and age. For age please note that I will randomly determine when you die of old age, so not everyone can choose 42 just to be Consul! Also, if your character does die, you must wait until your son comes of age(16), which I will randomly determine when you get a son and notify you. Seems different, but should add variety so we don't have the same people voting the same way and can make it a more dynamic campaign.

And, after we start, it is possible for new people to join, but if you want to you muse PM me. I will then randomly determine if you are a Pleb or Senator. If a player has a son he would like you to role-play that is already of age, by all means you may take that spot. But senators be warned, if you only have one son, when you die you won't be able to play the same family!

If no one likes the ideas, hey, it was worth a shot

Uh, there were no "political parties" in Rome, not really at any time. Sure there were certain causes, but each and every senator was out for himself first and foremost. If anything familial loyalties mattered more than any consistent ideal anyway.

So be it, ive been playing EB so long I was sure I was an Optimate!

First post edited.

And I suppose you aren't in?

Not so. Particularly in the late middle and late republic there were certainly political parties. Populares and optimates being the obvious two. Although there was no set structure like todays political parties (labor, liberal etc or for our yankee cousins democrats, republicans). Also down to an individual basis, based on clientele, and a mans auctoritas could sway dependant pedarii senators.

I understand new parties formed, such as the Marians or Sullans or Caesarians or Pempeiians (spelling on any of them?), and that can be delt with later, but honestly I would appreciate it if my thread wasn't turned into a debating ground when it hasn't any Senators to debate yet! :gah:

ill do it, since im online usually everyday anyways.

Edit : After seein the post below mine

Titvs Lepidvs Aqvila
Age : 29
Pleb

Sharp/Charismatic/Vigorous
Selfish/Optimistic/Loyal
Popularis

Ooh, I'd like to take part in this

Name: Vervs Dvmnorvs Assvs
Age: 31
Patrician

Traits: Stupid/Very Charismatic/Langorous
Selfish/Optimistic/Disloyal
Very Wealthy

I can tell this is going to be fun. My Senator will be a stupid pompous wind bag who makes horrible decisions and then uses others as scapegoats.

Well, I might as well take part.

Name: Quintus Cornelius Lentulus

Some family history: Grandson of Conrelius Lentulus, commander of the roman army defeated before the Battle of Caudine Forks. My father served as Quaestor and Aedile.

Patrician.

Age: 24

Has served as Tribunis Milita. Head of the Lentulus family of the gens Cornelii after my father died 4 years ago.
Quite intelligent, not so good with people, energetic. Quite the generous kind, but always pessimistic. Family not so wealthy.

Might elaborate further later on, but this will do for now.

I hope that this attempt will fare much better than the previous (abortive) one!:2thumbsup:

Therefore I would like to submit my character: Senator Vibius Tarquinius Barbatus.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

My grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-father was Lucius Tarquinius Superbus, the last roman king, who in his exile in Cumae, Campania, conceived another son (not that rapist Sextus, the disgrace of our noble familia) who in turn became the ancestor of my clan.

With the integration of Campania into newly-born Roman empire, my grand-grand-grand-grand-father moved to Rome and, because of his bravery, wealth and good connections, he succeded in gaining full citizenship for his children and who even entered the senatorial rank.

Looks like it will turn out good!

So, you are the Senate, how many people until I start this thing up?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dumbass

Ooh, I'd like to take part in this

Name: Vervs Dumnorvs Assvs
Age: 31
Patrician

Traits: Stupid/Very Charismatic/Langorous
Selfish/Optimistic/Disloyal
Very Wealthy

I can tell this is going to be fun. My Senator will be a stupid pompous wind bag who makes horrible decisions and then uses others as scapegoats.

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Double post, but this made me laugh :laugh4:

And please note that if you choose to be a pleb, you can't partake in Senatorial votes, but you can speak in the meetings..being a pleb is kinda a punishment since you have to work your way up to a position.

And I was thinking that we set a time limit per season, like say 24 hours? Is that fair for everyone? If need be we can extend it, or shorten it, but how about the default be 24 hours of voting and whatnots and then I update to the next Season?
EDIT: I thought it would be interesting if a vote was needed to extend meetings on important debates.

I know I said I won't edumacate you men on the Senatorial positions, but here are some good quick links to overview:

http://www.roman-empire.net/republic/rep-offices.html

A good chart:
http://www.vroma.org/~bmcmanus/romangvt.html

How about 24 hours per year. I think 24 hours per season is just too slow. The senators will decide what to do for the year, you carry it out and give reports, and then we decide what happens for the next year.

The die is cast! How many more senatores do we need?

I'll play along, too:

Septimus Claudius Oppugnatus

Age: 19
Sharp/Uncharismatic/Vigorous
Unselfish/Pessimistic/Loyal
Patrician

A young senator who wants the best for the Republic, but also sees the corruption in his fellow senatores and is often depressed because of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dumbass

How about 24 hours per year. I think 24 hours per season is just too slow. The senators will decide what to do for the year, you carry it out and give reports, and then we decide what happens for the next year.

The die is cast! How many more senatores do we need?

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Sounds fair, I just wanted to give the Senate as much control as possible, so it isnt me doing things that the Seante hasnt talked about.

For when we start Ill leave that up to you guys. If you want a deadline, how about we start in 24 hours? Advertise if you want also, so we can have a fuller senate.

Oh yeah, FOW on or off?

EDIT:

Here are some more rules(hope they are OK)
To begin a topic for debate, PM the High Speaker for that year(I will start as High Speaker, and what is the latin name for that?). He will put the topic on the list. Try to PM him with the title Debate Topic or something.

To vote on a subject, you MUST use this context:

Quote:

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Vote: For [Title of Subject] (IE.Vote: For Legion Mandate IX)
or
Vote: Against [Subject]

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You may cast your vote at anytime, but may not change it.

If somehow there is a 50% split on a vote, the Plebs (players who are pleb class and hold no rank) will be allowed to cast their vote. If still a tie, somehow, the people will vote, in which it will be 50/50 (Ill flip a coin).

Thats all for now, feel free to submit ideas.. Like I said, start in 24 hours.

The previous one seems to have died along with mini's PC, which has been experiencing problems.

I should like to resubmit my previous character, because I've grown rather fond of him.

Quote:

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I am Marcus Claudius Albinus. Aged 39 and one of the sons of the great Appius Claudius Caecus (Consul, Dictator, roads, aqueducts and educational reforms. We do reasonable rates on lawmaking too), who I'm sure you remember, died last year (if we start in 272BC anyway).

My brothers are on the path to founding new branches of the family- Caius' grandson (already shouting at the slaves) will be the first Claudius Pulcher. And my brother Tiberius Claudius Nero? No idea where his family will lead.

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That Claudius is a patrician, but I could swap him for a Marcus Claudius Marcellus if there are too many patricians (although I actually think there should be far more of them than plebeians in the senate- or is it Albinus who thinks that?).

I would just like to update on my character. He currently holds the office Aedile, he holds some power and sway in the senate, mainly through bribery but also because of his oratory skill. He holds utter disdain for plebians and people of lower classes. He is quite corrupt and selfish in pursuing his own interests rather than that of the republic. Also he has no military skill whatsoever.

So will we be able to openly debate objectives and rulings in this thread? Sounds good. Who are you going to nominate as the High speaker?

Name: Publius Tullius Lunaris

Age: 22

Sharp / Charismatic / Languorous

Unselfish / Pessimistic / Disloyal
Patrician
Popularis

Member of a relatively unknown patrician line of the clan Tullius, Publius is the first member of his family to have a seat in the Senate. He feels that the good of the Republic should be before the good of the rich citizens, though he does not believe the Senate feels the same way, which makes him something of a loner.

However, he is not a bad orator, and might even prove himself in the Senate one day.

I have to say, this sounds like an excellent idea. Count me in.
Name: Osimandius Fabius Maximus
Age: 20
Patrician, o' course.
Yes, I know that's not a Roman praenomen, but my name is Ozymandias. :egypt:

If everyone is going to be a senator, shouldn't they be at least 30?

And even then they are just pedarii so they cant speak in the house.

Pedarii and a lot of Senate rules:
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Roman_Senate

Well, since you do put up a good point, let us "imagine" that these meetings are taking place anytime inbetween senate meetings. Therefore, they are all "private meetings", giving everyone the right to vote and discuss matters. Another idea, how about Senators of Magistorial rank can change their vote once? This can somewhat benifit being elected to a high post (besides the whole imperium part).

High Speaker in Latin is Praetor Urbanus (not translated but it is the position I was talking about). Therefore, I will be the PU the first year or so to demonstrate what to do and whatnot (so I ask that one of my FM's is elected until you are all ready). After that, elect who you wish.

And for people making characters, I have no problem with you puting your character in the current offices, but no Consuls until we start, so no one is bossing everyone else around before we know who is who.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maeran

That Claudius is a patrician, but I could swap him for a Marcus Claudius Marcellus if there are too many patricians (although I actually think there should be far more of them than plebeians in the senate- or is it Albinus who thinks that?).

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As I said, you can be a pleb if you want, but being a pleb makes it MUCH more difficult, since you have to become an Aedile to even vote in the house, and you may get bad rep if you sit there vetoing topics of some powerful senator with lots of support, meaning you may not get elected.

Your choice :2thumbsup:

Name: Cnaevs Clavdivs Cicero
Age:30
Sharp/Uncharismatic/Languorous
Unselfish/Pessimistic/Loyal
Patrician

Part of a long line of former Consuls, including his recently deceased father, he is expected to one day continue the tradition and become Consul. Trouble is he really doesn't like war (he spent his military service making sure the army was supplied and fed, managing to be in Rome "organising deliveries" when a battle was imminent) so he will try his best to get elected but will also try to make sure it's during a time of peace where he won't have to lead any armies in battle. In saying that he hates Gauls so will try to influence the senate into attacking them whenever he can, as long as someone else is doing the fighting of course...

Name: Marcvs Rubellius Fulvius
Age:32
Sharp/charismatic/Languorous
selfish/Pessimistic/Loyal
Patrician

My character:

My family has been rich since my great grand father began trading with the Celts in the North for the best Raw Iron available. We are middle men in the Iron trade, and we have expanded beyond our original sources in Gaul, so that we have diversified our business interests. this means that:
1. I am hawkish - War means armor/weapons/tools etc - all require Iron.

2. I believe in Captive markets - i.e. alliances and protectorates should be the objective of warfare...

3. I am imperialistic - as long as the places we invade can be mined (Illyria! $$$).

Also - while I am the youngish head of a powerful family, I am corrupt and decadent. I am drunk or indulging myself with slaves when I should be attending to business, and although I am a hawk, I don't want to risk my own A$$ very often on the battlefield. Such are the vices of inheriting money...

Actually, I am in online classes for the next six weeks, so this AAR might be a great little diversion over the summer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gaivs

And even then they are just pedarii so they cant speak in the house.

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Well, they can, but given the order of preference for debate, chances of reaching them is slim.

I know I´m only 24, but considering I´m head of my family (the Lentulus Cornelii) I guess the chances of someone listening to me might be a bit bigger. Though I doubt my family is all that important.

Well, maybe I’ll try this out too… Seeing that you don’t seem to be enforcing age limits for senators… what about…

Marcus Iulius Draco
Sharp/Charismatic/Vigorous
Selfish/Pessimistic/Disloyal

20 years old, patrician, head of his family. His father died two years ago leaving him a huge fortune. He was a widely respected man, known for his wisdom, frugality and bravery. Young Marcus has big shoes to fill. Seeing that he is the blood of Venus, he is a beautiful young man, somewhat obsessed with his image. He thinks himself Alexander at times, at others Achilles. He is an excellent swordsman and rider, taking great pride in his skill. He is prone to be reckless and fearless, often believing himself divine. He’s never had a sickness of the body, being the very image of health. He is prone to strange moods, going from exuberance to melancholy with equal ease. At times he thinks himself a poet as well, but his poetry tends to be too gloomy to be shared.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TruePraetorian

As I said, you can be a pleb if you want, but being a pleb makes it MUCH more difficult, since you have to become an Aedile to even vote in the house, and you may get bad rep if you sit there vetoing topics of some powerful senator with lots of support, meaning you may not get elected.

Your choice :2thumbsup:

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Patrician of course. It is so much more fun.

You should post pics of the republic and its armies every year, if you can, so we senatores can get a visual sense of what we're voting on. What difficulty are ya gonna play on?

We need to decide how many units and how much a legion is composed of. This is what I use and I think it's quite balanced:
1 General
1 Military Tribune (Optional)
2 Hastati
2 Principes
1 Triarii
1 Hastati Samnitici
1 Heavy Samnites/ Pedites Extraordinarii
1 or 2 units of regional allies (Hoplites, brutian infantry, gaeroas etc.)
1 Equites

And for a consular legion:
1 General
1 Military Tribune (Optional)
4 Hastati
4 Principes
2 Triarii
2 Hastati Samnitici
2 Heavy Samnites/ Pedites Extraordinarii
2 units of regional allies (Hoplites, brutian infantry, gaeroas etc.)
1 Equites
1 unit of regional cavalry (Hippeis, Brihentin, Campanian etc.)

Only the faction leader, Consuls and Consulars are able to command consular legions.

This could just be a general guideline from which you can slightly alter your legions to suit your general's style or region. How does this sound to everyone?

The year was Circa 501, 5 centuries after Romulus and Remus founded the great city of Roma. The sky lit up wildly as Jupiter cast his glowing bolts from the heavens in a fit of rage. The cold rain pelted the dark, gloomy landscape of Manivs' home. From the Curii clan, he was a man of great prestige and virtue who had orated amongst the Senate for well over 4 decades. With his pallium draped over his toga to protect him from the thrashing winds, he stalked through the city towards the Senate house.

Upon entering, the room was cold and quiet. Manius disgarded his cloak and strode to the rostrum, surronded by an atmosphere of prominence. Standing infront, he gazed over the 600 men, some who had run the city for generations.

"Senators, as you know, the augurs have no good new for us today. A she-wolf has been found butchered near the river Rubicon. Whomever commited such an act of sacrilligem has deeply upset Quirinus, and we fear he blames Jupiter. With this anger, the gods may destroy the world as we know it in the process of their argument."

The roar of thunder echoes over the vast Senate hall as Manius stops.

"Senators, we may not have commited this crime upon the gods, but in an effort of apology we must please them in the name of Roma. So, as I stand here today, I ask you all to live the rest of your lives for the good of the Republic, to help her grow strong amongst her nieghbors, so we may appeal to the Gods and prevent the war to end all wars. With that said, I will now name off every Senator in this building in an attempt to show the divine that we will start afresh. When your name is mentioned, please rise for all to see and then be seated."

He pulls out a paper with a long list of names and begins to read them aloud.

"Manivs Cvriuvs Dentatvs, Cnaevs Cornelivs Blasio, Cnaevs Cornelivs Scipio Asina, Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio, Vervs Dvmnorvs Assvs, Quintus Cornelius Lentulus, Vibius Tarquinius Barbatus, Septimus Claudius Oppugnatus, Marcus Claudius Albinus, Publius Tullius Lunaris, Osimandius Fabius Maximus, Cnaevs Clavdivs Cicero, Marcvs Rubellius Fulvius, Marcus Iulius Draco..." his voice drones on after the first 15 as he continues down the list.

"And as such, two noteworthy Plebians who have done well to serve the Republic shall be named in honor, including Caivs Aevrelivs Cotta and Titvs Lepidvs Aqvila. May you consider them in elections as tribunes and Aediles so they may bask in the glory of the Senate."

He clears his throat and continues talking.

"As for the matters of the day, no one has spoken to me on topics of debate. I ask all Senators before leaving to personally write down what they would wish to discuss amongst the Senators. Please remember that as a rule you may not talk unless given permission by myself, since I am currently the Praetor Urbanus.

On another note, if I may request that all members of the Senate make sure that they have a signature denoting their name so we know whom is speaking in these unfamiliar days.

And lastly," pulls out a map, "here are the routine maps, diplomatic, and financial records promised in the old mandates of the republic."

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/...3-35-47-24.jpg

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/...pilation_1.jpg

"Today I declare open debate of topics, but tomorrow at exactly this time there will be no discussing in the Senate hall until the topics have been listed. Then, you may freely discuss and vote. Good day to you all, and make wise your decision, for the fate of Roma rest on your shoulders."

With that, he steps down from the Rostrum and picks up his pallium as he walks to the large Senate doors. With a gush of wind as he opens them. He glances back at the Senate, and walks off into the dark evening, seemingly impervious to anything but perfection.

So, open debate for 24 hours. PM me with your topics of debate by tomorrow. No voting today just discussion. Please put your name in your sig or somewhere where we can see it so we know whom we are speaking with. When I talk, I will denote which character I am using with something like *Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio*. And away we go! :charge: :charge: :charge:

*Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio* I apologize Dvmnorvs Assvs , but Cvrivs Dentatvs interrupted our conversation. As you were discussing the Legion, I think the following would be appropriate:

1 General and cavalry
2 Hastati
2 Princepes
2 Triarii (I think we should have 2 over 1)
1 Rorarii
1 Accensii
1 Leves

And for a Consular Legion:
1 General and cavalry
4 Hastati
4 Principes
4 Triarii
1 Rorarii
1 Accensii
1 Leves
2 Regional Mercenaries
1 Elite Allied Infantry
1 Eqvites Extroardinarii

Our ancestors have relied mainly on this composition for a generation or so now, and I disagree that we change it. Besides, cavalry is very expensive to maintain, and we Romans must rely on our Heavy Infantry.

Vervs Dvmnorvs Assvs slowly stood up to speak. He looked calm and collective on the surface, yet was gloating at the opportunities to further his career in the coming years.

"Senatores, I wish to bring up an issue that has been discussed multiple times by the Senate, it is the issue of the city of Taras remaining a free independant city state. The people of Taras have stood at our borders for many years, testing our authority and looking down upon us.

"Yet now, they are in fright. Their only line of survival, the general Phyrros, has left them to their fate. I have discussed this much with fellow Senatores, and we have concluded that the rights of the people of Taras are up for dispute. We must show them what happens when they cross the Senate and People of Rome. We cannot let them off, for their butchery of good roman citizens. Thus, I believe it is important to lay siege to the city and enslave the habitants, to teach a lesson."

"Not only will this bring great fortune and profit to Rome, but it will increase our holdings and influence over the provinces of Southern Italy."

"There is also the issue of the general named Phyrros. This general, the tool of the Taras' destructive campaigns, has thought he has got off lightly and has scurried off to Greece with his tail between his legs! We Romans do not forget our enemies, that is why I believe that after subduing Taras, we must pursue Phyrros. Many Senatores, including myself, would revel to see the humbled Epirote King marching through our great city in chains. I believe we must finish our job, and defeat Phyrros in battle, capturing him. However I do not wish to see the King's mistakes be taken out upon the nation of Epirus. After we have dealt with the offender, we should seek peace and trade agreements with the kingdom of Epirus."

Vervs, stood for a moment, before sitting down, smiling to himself.

I think 2 Triarii is too many, as historically there were about half as many triarii in a legion as the number of Hastati or Principes. And I think more Italic allies should be included as they were relied on quite a lot during the early stages. But it's up to you to decide how you want to recruit your army and fight your battles. By the way I liked the introduction to the AAR. Very atmospheric.

Edit: Whoops, I didn't realise you were keeping in character for this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dumbass

I think 2 Triarii is too many, as historically there were about half as many triarii in a legion as the number of Hastati or Principes. And I think more Italic allies should be included as they were relied on quite a lot during the early stages. But it's up to you to decide how you want to recruit your army and fight your battles. By the way I liked the introduction to the AAR. Very atmospheric.

Edit: Whoops, I didn't realise you were keeping in character for this.

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I believe Camillan Legions had equal Triarii rather then half.

*Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio* I agree, the Triarii in our Legions have equal number as the maniples of Hastati. The only difference is the number of ranks in which they fight, which is halved.

Cnaevs Clavdivs Cicero

Stands up and looks around waiting for somebody to tell him to sit down and shut up before continuing nervously.

My friend Lvciuvs Cornelivs Scipio, while you are correct that our heavy infantry have made Rome great, I do believe your Legion makeups give our "allies" in Italy an easy time of it. We should make use of the Samnites especially, if they are of fighting for us they aren't at home stirring up trouble.
I endorse the proposal of Vervs Domnorvs Assvs to capture Tarentum but must strongly oppose his plan to capture that Greek fool Phyrros, he knows Rome is too strong for Greeks to conquer and will let Hellenes the world over know this. No, after Tarentum we must take Rhegion off those rebellious traitors and show the world what happens if you betray the Senate and People of Rome.

Marcus Claudius Albinus stands even as Cicero sits.

Well said brother. But remember that it was only in our father's time that the Samnites fought against Rome. Those wounds will take time, and wealth, to heal.

Yes, in time the Samnites will perhaps be able to take their rightful place in the ranks. But at the present time our priority must be to stabilise Italy in Rome's favour. As such, Latin allies are preferable because we have an ugly task- the recapture of the Campanian rebels in Rhegium. Let us not show the Samnites our weaknesses!

As for Pyrrhus, I am no friend of his! But nor do I even know where that man is. We should send a diplomat to Macedonia and ascertain his situation. While we are at it, we should look to encourage trade in that most profitable region.

*Osimandius Fabius Maximus* Noble Assvs, while I would like to see Phyrros brought to justice as much as any true Roman, I doubt that we are in a financial position to pursue such a war. Would not it be more convienent to make peace after taking Taras, and concentrate our efforts on the rebels in Rhegion and the belligerent Cisalpine Galli? Once we have united fair Italia, our coffers will be the more full for it, and we will be in a far better position to wage a war in Illyria. We could, of course, always send an agent to solve our problem, an invisible hand of Roma, as it were...

I, Quintus Lentulus Cornelius, head of my family, wishes to state my agreement with the speech given by Senator Vervs Dvmnorvs Assvs, and several other respectable senators which spoke after him.
However, I wish to further add to his suggestion. In the city of Rhegion Roman traitors have repelled the rightful population and now lives as tyrants and oppressors. If we wish to restore our name amongst our allies it must be of highest priority to restore the city of Rhegion to its rightful inhabitants.
Once Taras and Pyrrhos have been dealt with, Rhegion should be the next target for the great legions of Roma.

Quintus Lentulus Cornelius

Septimus Claudius Oppugnatus had a grim look on his face, odd for one so young. He had seen that this Verus Dumnorus Assus was exactly the the type of man that made him fear for the integrity of the republic. In Septimus's eyes, Assus, with his plans to send men into foreign Greece, was as much of a threat as Pyrrhus himself. He waited his turn as the elder Senators spoke, he himself being quite possibly the youngest man in the hall, and then stood up to speak.

I, Septimus Claudius Oppugnatus, agree that it is definitely in Rome's best interests to conquer Tarentum and Rhegium as soon as our legions are able to do so. However, as for Senator Dumnorus Assus's proposal of pursuing Pyrrhus in Epirus, I believe I have an idea that burdens us less so. Why not send a diplomat to the Macedonians, secure an alliance, and let them deal with Pyrrhus? If we manage to secure the alliance, we can focus all of our efforts on the barbarians in Bononia and Segesta to the north.

(OOC: Heh, I don't actually dislike you, Dumbass, I'm just playing my character... :laugh4:)

Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio Taps his chin in thought. After a moment, he stands.

"Good Men,this Phyruss is no friend to Rome, but at the moment who is? Besides the mutual peace with Qart-Hadast, no one outside of Italia has done anything to show loyalty. That being said, I will continue to disagree with the invasion into Greece. We should begin by securing territorys along our border belonging to tribes, city-states, and rebels. We should bring the northern Legion down and elect an able Consul as to lead our men to war in the south. With a Consular Legion, it may well be possible to take southern Italia within 10 years."

Scipio glances around the room at all the Senators once more before speaking.

"I nominate none-other then an able man, Manivs Cvrivs Dentatvs, to be put on the voting lists for Consul."

With that, Lvcivs sits.

Publius Tullius Lunaris finally rises and looks at the members of the Senate.

"Friends, I do not suggest that we do not hunt down Pyrrhus and his Epeirotes, but with all respect to Dumnorvs Assvs, I do not recommend a campaign into Graecia, Hellas as they are called. The Antigonids are a fierce enemy, and are they not the heirs of Alexander?

However, furthermore I suggest we do not take Tarentum immediately. Let us first strike at the rebels in Rhegium and show the world what we do with those that betray Roma.

At the last, I second Lucius of the Cornelii in his vote to elect Manius Curius Dentatus as Consul."

With this, Publius sits down again and glances at the members of the Senate.

[Marcvs Rubellius Fulvius rises – a confident speaker with a charming smile. “ My brothers, my countrymen, I ask you who is it that Rome fears? Do we shiver in terror at the thought of Greeks? As refined and brilliant as they are, we are their natural betters in military affairs. We are at war with Taras, and this is a war that must end in our favor. I propose that we send a diplomat to the south to find out if the Greeks (Epirotes) can be made to treat with us. The Hellenes are civilized people, and it would be a mistake to treat them otherwise.
I agree with Senator Maximus that our real enemies lie in Rhegion and more importantly to the North. We have allowed the Celts to live in Italy for too long gentlemen. Who here does not recall how these same Celts sacked Rome a century ago? My own family suffered dearly at the hands of those barbarians, as a maiden Of our clan was stolen, and several of our men died in battle against the treacherous foe. Let us raise our forces to avenge the suffering of our ancestors and free the cities of Italia from the yoke of barbarian tyranny. March to the North my brothers, slay the Celts, and then use those areas to destroy the pirates of Illyria! Why should we the sons Aenius fear barbarians? Let us not… If Taras seeks war, then we will give it to them in a year, but for now let us drive the barbarians from our beloved nation once and for all…

One final statement while I have the floor gentlemen… Roma should see only normal taxation throughout this conflict. Our allies will benefit from the defeat of the barbarians as well, and they should help to pay for this campaign. Roman citizens who are placing their lives in jeopardy should not suffer the unnecessary hardship of further taxation. When we capture the cities of the north we should enslave the populace to pay for the campaign.
Gentlemen, you have my gratitude for allowing me to address you today…"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dumbass

Ooh, I'd like to take part in this

Name: Vervs Dvmnorvs Assvs
Age: 31
Patrician

Traits: Stupid/Very Charismatic/Langorous
Selfish/Optimistic/Disloyal
Very Wealthy

I can tell this is going to be fun. My Senator will be a stupid pompous wind bag who makes horrible decisions and then uses others as scapegoats.

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Alright 'Very Dumb ass"

Is it too late to join this?

pm TruePraetorian.

*Marcus Iulius Draco*

A young man rises confidently as the older men around him stare at his unusual dress. Marcus Iulius Draco wears black among the white clothed senators. His eyes take in the scene around him, before he speaks at last:

Conscript fathers, I am but a young man devoid of great experience or of the knowledge that comes from many years spent in the service of the Res Publica, and some of you might not even know who I am, but all of you knew my father, the late Manius Iulius Draco. He was a true Roman among Romans, and none who knew him may dispute that, and as such true Romans will know that he spent his time making sure that his son and heir would be a true Roman as well, one to continue the name, and his service to the Res Publica.

I have heard the opinions of better men than I, and throughout their speeches, I have been thinking in truth, what would my father had done, what would a true Roman do? Thus, emboldened by the remembrance of his wisdom, and I assure you, not without humility, I shall tell you what he would have said, had he been alive here today.

First of all, the Epeirotes can not be allowed to continue to remain on our peninsula. Our peninsula, conscript fathers, ours, and not theirs, for we do not have to cross a sea to arrive on its shore, but we live here in truth, ever since Aeneas came upon these shores. Let them go back across the sea and see to their squabbles with the other "heirs" of Alexander. We can not alow them a foothold here, for they are a cancer, one that can easily grow and spread from Taras to other areas... and none would want to see them in full command of Magna Graecia, and therefore with a dagger at our throats. No, conscript fathers, by all means, they must be driven out!

Young Marcus pauses as to collect his thoughts, then continues:

Then after that cancer is dealt with, the other cancer to the South must be shown no mercy. Those traitors to the Res Publica holding Rhegion must be shown the truth of Roman ways. No mercy to traitors, he says his tone rising slowly, no mercy to those who would abandon the Res Publica, no mercy now, and forever!

After these traitors are dealt with, we shall be in a position of great strength, a position we should not squander... no conscript fathers. When the South of our peninsula is secured we should move swiftly to secure the North as well, for there greater dangers lurk still, the dangers of barbarism, and of the marauding hordes of violent Gauls. Remember Brennus conscript fathers, remember him well! In the dark lands of barbarism to our North another such as him can rise, and he might yet want to utter the words of "Vae victis!"

It is imperative that we deal with the barbarians, nay it is our duty to remember that our history shows they are the greatest threat to our Res Publica. It was neither the Greeks, nor the Carthaginians that brought us so close to defeat, but the Gauls. We should all remember our ancestors, as I do, remember that they stood against the Gauls on the Capitoline Hill, and they prevailed and left to us their heirs the work of humbling the barbarians. Never again shall Gauls stand upon the Capitoline Hill I say, never again. We shall make it our goal, a goal for all true Romans, to deal with this menace to the North once and for all, and be that it take many years, true Romans will always be here to complete this task, for the Res Publica shall live on forever if we take destiny into our own hands and destroy those who have proven to be our greatest enemies!

Therefore I propose that the Gauls must be destroyed!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johnhughthom

I believe Camillan Legions had equal Triarii rather then half.

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Yep, that's correct. If you're going for a historically accurate army, a Camillian legion should look thus:
1 Hastati
1 Principes
1 Triarii
1 Leves or Accensi (one of each with two legions)

Two of them in a consular army (adding a single unit of Rorarii when you've got two legions), along with two socii alae (allies - half of both Camillian and Polybian armies were non-Roman), each of which is composed thus:

1 light infantry (eg Bruttian or Lucanian infantry)
1 medium infantry (eg Samnite Allied Spearmen)
1 hoplite/spearman (eg Classical Hoplite)
1 skirmisher (eg Akontistai or Peltastai or Gallic slingers)

Add to that your general, his pedites extraordinarii (use Samnite Heavy Infantry early on since they're similar), a tribune (ie younger family member, who also conveniently represents the equites in about the right number, too) and the allied cavalry (one or two units of Campanian/Ligurian/Greek/Gallic cavalry).

That gives you:
two legions (9 units total)
two alae (8 units total)
General
two other units from tribune, pedites extraordinarii and cavalry

What I'd suggest doing to ease the numbers down and allow more cavalry is recruit one less allied spearman, and possibly ditch the rorarii. Or perhaps go without the general's elite extraordinarii.

So as an example, a consular army of two legions and two alae might be thus:

Command
1 General

First Legion
1 Hastati
1 Principes
1 Triarii
1 Leves

Second Legion
1 Hastati
1 Principes
1 Triarii
1 Accensi

Right Ala
1 Bruttian infantry
1 Samnite Allied medium spearmen
1 pedites extraordinarii/Samnite Heavy infantry
1 Peltastai

Left Ala
1 Bruttian infantry
1 Samnite Allied medium spearmen
1 Classical Hoplites
1 Gallic slinger

Cavalry
1 Tribune (also acts as equites)
1 Campanian Equites
1 Hippeis

(Left out the rorarii here, and one of the units of Hoplites)

Senators, head my word. I believe that the Praetor Urbanus has stated that no debates are to held today, unless so allowed by the Praetor Urbanus himself. So for now we can only discuss in private while we await his arrival.

Quintus Lentulus Cornelius

*Senator Vibius Tarquinus Barbatus stands up and with a puzzled expression on his face turns to Quintus Lentulus Cornelius:

With all due respect my dear colleague, but I do not think that Praetor Urbanus prohibited us from having an open discussion here. Nota bene no-one has the potestas to prevent the body of Senators, the very embodiment of the Res Publica, to speak up. I believe that he has only informed us that the VOTING will be held only tomorrow, has he not?

Anyway, I strongly support the proposal made by Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio to put Manivs Cvrivs Dentatvs on the voting list for Consulship and I declare that I will vote for him.

As to what has been said about the outrage caused by the traitors who have taken the innocent and friendly city of Rhegion - I agree that Roman name must be cleaned of this abomination! But be sure that our goal is to LIBERATE that city, not to subjugate it! Beware before you put too much confiece and too much potestas to ambitious generals!

As to the war with Pyrrhos - I am quite sure that the offences of the Tarentines are no longer tolerable and that and expedition should be sent againt that city. However, the objective should be only to punish them. After our legions take the city, and I am fully certain they will, we should impose a tribute and a treaty of alliance on Taras, but let them run their business under the leaders of their own choosing. We should not mix with the Greeks too much, and we should not seek further possessions over the tricky seas. Let us leave that foolish youngster Pyrrhos alone - he is no threat to us on the other shore.

If we would try to "punish" him, our socii would not support us - and rightly so! - in such a war, as it serves no defensive purpose. I deeply respect my distinquished colleague Vervs Dvmnorvs Assvs, but when he speak of such campaign I hear the soaring ambition seeking a personal glory rather than the public good!

Beware of ambitious generals or corruption and decay might infect our Res Publica as it did infect the Hellas where free poleis were crushed by reckles tyrants, who in search of glory have wreaked havoc, war and plague upon their respective coutries!

*Red-faced with anger the Senator Vibius Tarquinus Barbatus sits down again.

OOC - I recommend to use the army composition as suggested by Quintus Sertorius - it is both historical, efficient, and fun (I use it myself).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by General Appo

Senators, head my word. I believe that the Praetor Urbanus has stated that no debates are to held today, unless so allowed by the Praetor Urbanus himself. So for now we can only discuss in private while we await his arrival.

Quintus Lentulus Cornelius

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Well in that case, some inexplicable time anomaly must have occured, because the speech Marcus Iulius Draco gave actually happened during the official senatorial debates. :yes: I believe some sort of entity called Q could be involved in this strange time-space anomaly, but yes this speech happens at the proper time. :dizzy2:

Therefore, I propose that the Gauls must be destroyed!

/signed the official OOC timeline police patrolling a forum universe near you.

Vervs Dvmnorvs Assvs stands up.

"Senatores, I full heartedly embrace all of your queries and opinions. It seems there has been a mis-understanding in my speech. I do not propose that we invade the Hellas, as I said before, I wish to find peace and agreements of trade with the kingdom of epirus. It is only that the treacherous dog Phyrros that has been allowed to escape his crimes. It would be a serious dent to Roman prestige if we allow his actions to go unpunished.

A few of you speak of the economical problems of such a venture. I have only one question to ask you. Are you considering the cost of a rapid military operation to be more important than the prestige and glory of the republic of Rome? Do you believe that Phyrros should go free for his crimes, just so you can fill your pockets with extra denarii? Tell that to the families of murdered Roman soldiers. Many of us have lost loved ones in this war, I too have lost my brother Cavis. If we do not avenge our fallen Roman heroes, than we will lose the trust of the people. Roman influence and honour will be damaged, which will do wonders for our enemies.

Let me re-iterate the plan to make it easier to understand. I propose that we send a legion to hunt down Phyrros, and crush him in battle. Once he is either dead or in chains, we return to Italy and seek peace and trade agreements with the Epirotes. I would like to re-assure my fellow senatore Publius Tullius Lunaris, that we will not make war with the Antigonids and heirs of Greece. It will simply be a quick campaign to restore Roman authority and prestige and to avenge our fellow romans.

And I must ask Lunaris, but are you really so frightened of the so called "Heirs" of Alexander?"
There are a few chuckles amidst the Senatores.
"Your fears seem to be clouding your otherwise impecable judgement. Roman military force will make short work of Phyrros' lackies.

I also suggest to support the campaign, an alliance and negotiations should be arranged with the Makedonian King Antigonis Gonatas. The Makedonians are under pressure from Phyrros and would pay well for Roman aid, which would solve the economical problem of the campaign.

I would also like to add that I believe Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio and Manivs Cvrivs Dentatvs would make fine candidates for the voting roles for consulship. I also believe that Scipio would be the prime candidate to lead the 2nd legion to battle with Taras."


Also, someone finally got the "True" meaning behind my name :laugh4:

Senators, I apologise for the imposter that spoke lies earlier in my name, rest assured that he has recieved proper punishment.

Now, to the bussines at hand. I must speak against honorable Senator Vervs Dvmnorvs Assvs. If we let Pyrrhos of Epirus be, he will keep the Antigonids busy, and stop them from becoming overtaking all of Graecia and the areas around it. Where the Antigonids to do so, they would surely threaten Roman power with many great armies.
Pyrrhos has abandoned his allies and protectorates, surely the shame from this is punishment enough? We can not let our shortsightedness and thirst for revenge blind our vision. Pyrrhos will be dealt with in due time, for now the cities of Magna Graecia must be our priority, and the the raiding Gallio and Ligurians to the north.

Quintus Lorentus Cornelius

Titvs Lepidvs Aqvila stands to address Vervs Dvmnorvs Assvs

"You speak of this campaign as quick and just, but have you no memory? Would the people support sending more men to search for Phyyros? I support removing the Aikaides influence in Taras and crushing the opposition. However following the greek into his lands will turn the tide, our supply lines will now depend on the sea, as did his. Even if you dare ignore the amount of romans lost in the battles against Phyyros previously, and we did manage to bring him down in battle, what would be the cost? The people will not support this cause, any more than our allies will. With that in mind, it is the roman people who will suffer from this war. These are lives that have already suffered from this war, and more broken family's will be left to roam the streets of our great city.

Should we make Phyyros pay for his crimes, who will lead the Epeiros? His sons. I'm sure they'd love to make peace with their fathers murderers after they saw how hard it is to maintain a supply line over seas. Chasing Phyyros is a bad idea and proposed for self gain. Our economy should be our priority, not a greek who is no longer a threat to us."

Titvs Lepidvs Aqvila looks to Vervs Dvmnorvs Assvs and then sits.

Cnaevs Clavdivs Cicero

Stands again, nervous and wondering if what he has to say will gain him an enemy in his first senate session.

May I ask our friend Vervs Dvmnorus Assvs how he would react if the Hellenes say or the Karthaginians sent an army into our lands to hunt down an enemy? I'll bet he would be here howling for blood and demanding we attack the invaders. All an expedition against Phyrros would gain would be the enmity of all in Greece. Phyrros has few friends over there but a Roman army on Greek soil would almost certainly gain him many. There is also the fact that sending an army to Greece would leave Rome unprotected, what happens if a horde of Gauls come from the North? No, we have shown Phyrros Rome cannot be conquered he is no threat to us, we cannot risk Romes safety for a revenge mission.

Phyrros is no threat to Rome

Septimus Claudius Oppugnatus stands again, determined to stop any incursion into Greece. With a cleverly placating voice he says this:

"If it pleases Senator Dumnorus Assus, I have a more subtle idea of dealing with Pyrrhus. In addition to the previously proposed alliance with Macedonia, we can send a team of assassins to take care of Pyrrhus, rather than a full legion. After all, only a single blade is needed to end a man's life; we shouldn't have to send the Roman legions into foreign territory."

And with that, Septimus sits down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dumbass

[I]
someone finally got the "True" meaning behind my name :laugh4:

---

I though it was obvious what your name meant. BTW you've made a good start to your bad decision making, pompous wind bag character, just don't be using me as your scapegoat :whip:

M. Claudius Albinus takes his turn to stand. With theatrical care he shakes the umbo of his toga, and turns it inside out.

The folds of my toga are not filled with coins, Dumnorus. Nor are the coffers of the temple of Saturn. If you can find legions who can subsist on air and righteous indignation, then you have my blessing to take them in pursuit of the Mollossian Hound.

Perhaps Dumnorus does not remember our victory at Beneventum. I do. It was only three years ago. I call it a victory, but it was not unlike Asculum or Heraclea, which I was also at.

In the field, Pyhrrus can take on superior numbers and escape- he did it three years ago. In Hellas, he can rely on superior numbers in the face of a foreign aggressor. Therefore I do not recommend such a direct action.


No-one knows this better than Curius Dentatus. He led us at that last battle. I agree with and will heartily support his re-election as Consul, in the knowledge that he will let sound judgment overrule hotheadedness.

Osimandius Fabius Maximus rises, glad to see that another fresh face, Oppugnatus, supports his plan. The Senate, after all, can be a scary place we one doesn't know one's way around.

"Good Assvs! Albinus' statement does reinforce the point of my previous speech. I do not belittle the prestige and glory of Roma, but how is such a venture to be supported without money? If Phyrros is to be dealt with, then as noble Oppugnatus as seconded, espionage is the right path."

With a nod to Albinus and Oppugnatus, Osimandius Fabius takes his seat.

Manivs storms into the Senate hall with a look of rage. Immediatly the other Senators stop talking and sit down, almost simultaneously. Taking his place at the Rostrum, he begins his speach for the day.

"Men of Rome; time does not favor the bold, or so it seems. For nearly two hours I have been skulking through Latium. Ambushed as I was by unseen men, I fear it is the Gods attempting to infuriate me for the tasks I bring. For all they are, not even the Gods are wise enough to see true determination, and thus I get punished."

He stops to rub the bridge of his nose, the stress seeming to radiate from his mud-stained toga.

"As for the first vote of today, I proprose a new rule. It will be entitled Mandate I, and it states:
'In abscense of the Praetor Urbanus on any occasion after the alotted time before a Senate meeting, duty of foriegn affairs shall be passed to the first to voluntarily take the innitiative. Voting may take place, but if the Praetor Urbanus arrives before the next Senate meeting, time may be extended and vote recounted.'"

"Therefore, if ever the Praetor Urbanus is absent for any reason whatsoever when the meeting begins, the first Senator to speak may voluntarily begin the meetings for the day. Votes may take place, and opinions voiced. But, if ever the Praetor Urbanus returns withing 24 hours of the beginning of the meeting, then voting may be recounted at his whim. All in favor of Mandate I please cast your votes in accordance."

"To move on, Osimandius Fabius Maximus has proprosed an agreement on trade. No voting will take place on the matter, but it is open to discussion upon the priority of building ports and roads in order to secure our coffers. We will need such things in times of war."

"Next, M. Claudius Albinus wishes to proprose the following:

-What to do with Tarentum when we have taken it (surely no-one would just leave it?).

-Rhegium

-The Northern Border

-Peace and trade with Gaul and Greece.

-Building the economy (and securing Italy). Better roads?

-What allies should be permitted to serve as (i.e. the composition of the Legions).

None of these topics are open for vote, but discussion is now storingly advised."

"For all of you to know, none of these topics are voted upon because none of these topics can be voted upon. If you wish to proprose a vote topic, please send me a message. Make bold any voting topics, and list both possible choices. If the topic is heavily discussed today, then I will consider it in tomorrows voting."

"In another, more important issue, we must secure our Senate offices. As you all know, I myself have been added to the roles as a candidate for my second Consul. I will need anyone you would like to nominate by the end of the meeting in a private message for any offices. Voting will not take place today since we do not have enough men to vote for, but tommorow is the due date for candidates."

"Another topic for debate which has already gone underway is the structure of the Legions. Please feel free to debate, and when a general vote may take place, it shall be so."

"Lastly, I would like to restrict the unnecesary ban on discussion before topics. Instead, it will remain free debate, but if any votes will take place on anything, they MUST be private messaged to me. Therefore, you may debate anything, but unless it is announced by a Praetor Urbanus, it will not be voted upon."

Seemingly calmer after speaking, Cvrivs folds his hands behind his back and awaits the hustle and bustle of Senate voices to begin debating the topics of the day.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Everyone I appologize, but we have had a current storm and the power was out for 2 hours. I even went up to the local library to no avail. That is why I suggested Mandate I, hope it is a good first mandate.

EDIT: Times will now be announced for the next meeting in GMT for the sake of sanity. Next meeting will be held at 17:30EST or 21:30 GMT

http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/tzc.tzc

Cnaev Clavdivs Cicero

Noble Manius I wish to propose that only Quastors and Aediles have the power to decide on building policy in Rome, also building in Rome must come first - only after a policy for Rome is decided do we consider spending money elsewhere. Also on financial matters I propose that we keep military spending at a maximum of 90% of tax income, farming and trade income is too vulnerable to change to rely on. Finally I respectfully ask our honourable Praetor Urbanus not to use the words Gaul and peace in the same sentence again, it gives me a headache.

Phyrros is no threat to Rome

*Dentatvs* I am sorry friend, I only read what my scribes have listed. Gaul and peace will never be associated again by my own tongue from now until I pass.

As for your proposals on Questors and Aediles, it has again be noted. But with a lack of Offices it is a good topic to discuss. From here on, such matters of construction shall be left to the Aediles, and Questors will be left the financial tasks. When elected, I will personally notify each office what tasks it must accomplish, and what powers it has.

This does not restrict economy in General as a topic, I will let you know. The managing of cities is surely left to the offices, but the coffers of Rome are not private funds and will not be disclosed to a few Senators.

And, for all to know, remember that it is not necessary to nominate a Senator for office. There are 600 men in this room with more then able ability; I would not like to see the power of Rome bestowed upon a small gathering of people. Remember also, follow the Curus Honorum, for breaking such a tradition by nominating yourself for an unworthy position will only lead in negative influence.

M. Claudius Albinus stands, and waits a moment for the younger senators to stop fidgeting.

Conscript Fathers, I will be brief. The honourable Curius Dentatus has listed those matters I should wish you to discuss.

As for the offices and responsibilities assigned by tradition on the Aediles and Quaestors, I have no objection, although I would add the reminder that senior offices possess the right to overrule those junior to themselves. Otherwise we must resort to the unseemly behaviour of constantly undoing the mistakes of last years office.

Considering Gaul- these barbarians fight amongst themselves, and this keeps them from fighting us. Constant war with all Gauls is unnecessary and unprofitable. The Aedui confederacy sponsors some of our immediate rivals it is true, but why are we hostile to the Arverni?

Both the economy and the security of Italy would be boosted significantly by the construction of better roads. At least a trunk from Etruria to Rhegium. My father showed us the way in this matter, with the via Appia. Any proposed Aedile would do well to prioritise roads, that speed up the movement of both troops and trade from the Gallic border to the Bruttian shores.

Tarentum must be attacked. As long as we allow a continued Epirote presence in Italy, there will be troops there. Do not think of it as conquest. To be sure, the Tarentines invited Pyrrhus to our shores, but it was they who have felt the grip of his tyranny first and for the longest. We would not be conquerors but liberators!

Once this act of charity is completed, we must decide how to deal with the misguided Greeks. Do we welcome them into the commonwealth as allies, or do we deprive them of the right to raise troops in their traditional manners? Do we strip the city of its wealth and people, or do we allow them to live on, in the knowledge that it is Rome who safeguard their freedoms and require their fidelity?

What say you, senatores?

Septimus Claudius Oppugnatus steps up to respond to Senator Claudius Albinus's questions.

"Noble senatore and fellow Claudius, your words are wise, and I believe you have the best interests for the republic at heart. Building better roads is certainly a good step towards economic growth; I would also suggest that we make port-building, or at least coastal clearing, our next priority, so that we might profit from trade with our ever-greedy Punic allies. After we liberate Tarentum, I believe it would be wise to simply occupy the city, otherwise we might not be seen as liberators after all. We should integrate it into the Italian Allies that we benefit from in our legions. (i.e. build Type 1 gov.)

I do agree that we should not remain at war with all of the Gauls. However, should we support one faction too much over the other, they may gain an advantage and unite all of Gaul against us. We must remember that although we can keep peace with some of them, they are all truly our enemies. Therefore, I suggest that if we do manage to conquer all the way to the Aedui tribes in Mediolanum, we should then make peace with the Aedui and sever ties with the Arverni."

Septimus sits, believing he may have gained a powerful ally in the Senate.

Cnaevs Clavdivs Cicero

Stands once again finally feeling confident his words won't be ignored or laughed at.

Aedui? Arverni? What are these words you speak? You mean you can actually tell these smelly barbarians from one another? All this talk in the senate of assassins and playing factions off one another, what has happened here? Have I left Rome and found myself in Athens among cowards, liars and cheats? Rome knows only one method of diplomacy and that is the throwing of the pilum, the stab of the gladius and that is how we should "negotiate" with the Gauls. Unless of course they are willing to show subservience to Rome with a suitable donation...
Finally I would like to nominate Titvs Lepidvs Aqvila as Plebeian Aedile.

Phyrros is no threat to Rome


OOC I take it we are going to ignore minimum ages for senate offices as so many are playing characters in their 20s?

*Dentatvs* Thank you wise Cicero. Your words truly strike a chord withing this senate building. The Gauls of the north are nothing more then wretched bands of savage animals who think nothing of stabbing a man in the back. Alliance with either one of the tribes would demonstrate a weakness that no Roman has any right to bear. The only agreement with the barbarians that I forsee would be one of large benifit to Rome, a yearly tribute as suggested by Cicero.

As for Tarentum, to demonstrate true Roman superiority of Italia, we must enslave the population and burn their homes. The Gods would have us do no less, and any true Roman should recognise the oppurtunity set before us.

Lastly, Cicero my dear friend, I ask you to remember to write down your candidates in a private message. And to all, the only age restriction is that of Consul, which has always been 42.

Senators, heed my words. This bickering is pointless! While we sit and discuss what we should do once the city of Taras has been conquered, its people continue to live on in freedom and prepare for war against Roma.
I believe we can all agree that Taras should be our first target, so what are we waiting for? Send the legions of Roma to take the city, and then we can discuss the future.

Quintus Lorentus Cornelius

*Marcus Iulius Draco*

I agree with Quintus Lorentus Cornelius, it is imperative that Taras must be brought under our control. Building roads and promoting trade is all fine and well, and I defer this matter to my seniors, but the matters relating to the security of the Res Publica must come first. As such I will be the first to take up my sword and go fight the Epeirotes, for the Res Publica needs swords in this time of need, and us conscript fathers should be the first to show our fellow citizens conduct befitting true Romans!

I am also saddened that some of us here can even contemplate to think of Gauls as "allies". Our noble ancestors must be weeping in the afterlife, for such abomination tarnishes all that we hold dear. While I live I shall never contemplate such abomination, holding dear to my heart our history, and even more so our gods appointed destiny.

Therefore, I propose that the Gauls must be destroyed.

OOC: Seeing that I'm most likely going to the mountains for the weekend, my dear Marcus will most likely take a break from senatorial affairs, as such he should go on campaign to gain some military experience... time to kill some enemies of the Res Publica.

Publius Tullius Lunaris rises

Heed my word, conscript fathers!

While we speak of destroying the Gauls with massive forces, I cannot help but think; where will we get the money from?

I propose that we first deal with the band of traitors in Rhegium. Then we need to further trade with the city of Carthago. Only after we have a stable economy we can think of capturing foreign lands.

As for you, Verus Dumnorus Assus, I do not believe myself to be a coward, but think again. The Hellenic peoples were the ones that conquered the ancient realm of Persia. They are still a mighty foe.

P. Tullius Lunaris sits again

Titvs Lepidvs Aqvila rises to speak..

"I am in partial agreement with Publius Tullius Lunaris, as the traitors must be dealt with soon, and swiftly to regain the trust of our allies. It will further our trade with our Punic allies and bolster our economy, however when the rebellion falls the people of the city of Rhegion are not to blame, the rebels have hurt them and their families enough.

However as I previously said I believe Phyyros and his influence in Taras should be our biggest concern. Our southern legion should march and capture the city and perhaps the team of assassins would be the best way to end the threat from Phyyros.

I am in favor of playing one barbarian tribe against another, as long as it is known that neither can be our ally, as the people of Rome will not stand for the welcoming of a barbarian tribe, and we also can not allow them to unite gaul. Keep their civil war going may be a way of financially draining them and keeping them away from our borders"

*Senator Vibivs Tarqvinivs Barbatus stands up with a worried expression oh his face

Patres conscripti, how wise our forefathers were when they have built this magnificent building with such a thick walls and massive doors so that no-one outside the body of senators could hear the proceedings. It would be a shame be it otherwise! O tempora! O mores! Where is justice - thown out to the rubbish yard! Where is a sense of decency - dead long ago, apparentely!

Instead one can hear today such a sinfully war-mongering utterances like "we must enslave the population of Taras and burn their homes" (he looks regretfully towards Dentatus) or "Gauls must be destroyed" (sadly nodding to Draco). Where such feelings stem from? We certainly should not shy away from war, that would be unthinkable and I am no pacifist either, but it is imperative that it will be a bella iusta. Populus Romanus rose to such heights by being just and unavengeful to its former foes, striving quite successfully to win them over as friends and allies after defeating them in battle. This policy of just war and reconcilliation served our fathers well. Why we should introduce so dramatic a break right now? I hear some of my more belligerent colleagues to speak of Roman honour which in their opinion somehow binds us to be cruel towards our neighbours and expansionistic. The very opposite is true. Their proposal of war of conquest would be unheard of in our glourious past and would met with outrage by our predecessors. Therefore I have to strongly object and plead you: STOP THIS MADNESS!!!

Taras should of course be dealt with, I have said so previously, but after we defeat them, we should leave them to run their business by themselves and only impose on them a tribute and a treaty of alliance (i.e. occupy and build Type4 Government).

The same with Rhegion, which we are obliged to liberate from those traitors who stained the name and honour of Roma (i.e. occupy and build Type4 Government).

After that we shoud make the peace with Pyrhos as he indeed is no threat to Rome (nods approvingly towards Cicero). Trying to punish him by continuing war would be foolish and unjust, trying to slay him by assassins would mean to entrust the policy of the Res Publica to the dirty hands of some water-side scum which is both foolish and shameful.

As regards the Gauls up north, we could and should conclude a ceasefire with them and them tire one another in their meanigless skirmishes. I cannot see a point in trying to burn down a few huts or attempting to conquer a patch of a forest!

As regards domestic matters, road-buiding, improvement of trade and agriculture and setting a definite limit on defence expeditures - 90% of tax income - all these are reasonable policies and have my full support. We should make Rome stronger instead of just bigger!!!

*As he utters his last word with apparent disgust, Senator Vibivs Tarqvinivs Barbatus sits down again, exhausted with anger and long speech

Im in...

Lysandros Julius Antonius

23 years

Senatores, young family only recently granted rank

Educated in the classics, military aspirations

Lysandors Julius Antonius arrives late, having been delayed by an angry congregation of citizens outside the forum...

He assumes his seat amongst the noble senatores and listens intently to their wise words...

How, oh Vibivs Tarqvinivs Barbatvs can you discuss the future of Taras while its population still prepares to face our armies? I say again, take the city, then we can discuss how best to deal with it.
We sit hear and bicker over how to manage a city that is not yet ours. Have the wars against Pyrrhos taught us nothing? We cannot simply presume that the armies of Roma will conquer all with ease. True, in the end, the Res Republica will always be victorious, but to assume that it will be so at the first encounter is both foolish and arrogant.
I propose the legions moves towards Taras as swift as possible, lest we give it time to prepare for defense. Who shall lead the legions I do not know, though victorious Manivs Cvrivs Dentatvs seems an obvious choice, or if not him perhaps noble Cornelius Blasio.
But, let us not be pinned down by pointless bickering. The Imperator should be chosen quickly and justly, so that the legions can get to work. Then we politicians can decide the faith of the defeated, but not before they are actually defeated.
I also offer up myself to serve in legions that are to march towards Taras. As a Legate or Tribune if the Imperator would have me, but if not, as a Decurion or even a common soldier. For the common soldier is the most respectable man in the Res Republica, and should be dully honored.

Quintus Lorentus Cornelius

Albinus stands again to address the Senate.

I give my thanks to Lunaris, Aquila and Barbatus, for relieving my anxiety. For a moment I was certain some god had transported me indeed to Athens, where they really do not distinguish between foreigners but call them all barbarians. They are also proud of themselves beyond reason or past experience- something that I hope Jupiter Optimus Maximus does not inflict upon this council. I said nothing of alliances, merely the opportunity to open trade with those who are not a threat to us. We all have clients who seek such trade.

I disagree that it is mere bickering to discuss the fate of an enemy city before it is taken. Let the Consul in command know what the wishes of Senate are before he sets foot on Tarentine streets and he can act accordingly from the first, rather than maintain a huge garrison while he runs back to Rome to aquire his senatus consultum.

However, it does indeed look like we could devolve into a pointless round of debate. So let us make some definite decisions.

I request that the Praetor Urbanus announce the election of the Consuls at the very least without delay. There are currently only two candidates mentioned; Manius Curius Dentatus and Lucius Cornelius Scipio.

Should further candidates be entertained they should be submitted by private message to the Praetor Urbanus by the end of this day. Voting can then be made and the candidate with the most votes be made the senior Consul. As follows tradition, the Consuls then allocate provinces of war between them by lot.

Only one other candidate has been mentioned. Titus Lepidus Aquila for plebeian Aedile. I am not averse to his election.

If no objections to the process I have put forward are made this day, then I trust the Praetor Urbanus will make such arrangements as are necessary.

Manivs smiles.

*Manivs* "It must appear that I am neglectful of my duties to you fine Senators! For all to know, the elections have been postponed only because of the entrance of new Senators. It has been two meetings, yet I feel as if you nobile men are scrutinizing my every action!"

He ruffles through some papers sitting atop the Rostrum and continues speaking.

"Be patient, O my dear Romans. The elections will be held in only a few moments. Currently, I am waiting for any last minute candidates or voting topics, of which I have recieved few. Senatores, if this Senate house is to run Roma, you must send me private messages! If not, your opinions may go unvoiced among us."

He stops for only a moment before talking again.

"Brothers, it seems that the rules of this Senate house are being looked lightly upon. Twice in the recent meetings have unannounced visitors interupted our meetings. If this ever occurs again, I urge you men to punish him with your orative skill. He who is rude to the Senate is rude to Roma, and there is no tolerance to disgrace of this city."

"I will leave it at that. In a short span of time I will announce candidates, new-men,and topics of vote. Please, I again urge you to send me what you would like to be voted upon."

Dentatvs, done with his speech, waits patiently for the beginning of the next meeting.

Manivs Cvrivs Dentatvs smiles as he glances over the papers knowing very well his name was on them. Patiently waiting for the Senatores to take their places, he clasps his hands behind his back. It did him proud to see so many of his kinsmen united for one just cause, the glory of Roma. Behind him, a scribe sat patiently with wax tablet in hand, staring at the white-robed Praetor Urbanus, almost wishing to hear him speak.

Finally, after a few minutes, the noise in the Senate house was reduced to nothing.

"Senatores, it does me well to see you here today."

His voice echoed in the silent dome, richoteing off of seemingly every surface. The room seemed to compliment his natural orative skill.

"I will start today with none-other then the most important events; the elections. The list reads as follows:

For Pontifex Maximus(1):
...

For Censor(2):
P.Rvfivs Catvlvs
M. Pavlvs Tranivs
P. Ivlivs Scipio.

For Consul(2):
M. Cvrivs Dentatvs
L. Cornelivs Scipio
P. Avrus Flavivs
M. Cornelivs Blasio.

For Praetor(8):
M. Cornelivs Septimvs
R. Redivs Lentvlvs
M. Cornelivs Tvlivs
G. Plvtvs Mvs
C. Firmvs Talenvs
L. Cornelivs Talvs
P. Manivs Ivlva
C. Servvs Blasio
O. Pavlvs Cicero
M. Cornelivs Lipedimvs
N. Clavdivs Gentitvs

For Curule Aedile(2):
C. Glarivs Perpinvs
M. Cornelivs Seitos
F. Pavlvs Rvfivs Gemini
C. Delvs Brvtvs
P. Fvlvvis Maxentivs
O. Septimvs Caltivs

For Plebian Aedile(2):
T. Lepidvs Aqvila
T. Brvmivs Tarvs
F. Pentvlvs Marivs
R. Cornelivs Tabvlvs
C. Avreilvs Cotta

For Quaestor(20):
Pvblivs Tvllivs Lvnaris
...

For Plebian Tribunes(10):
...

For Military Tribunes:
...

For Praetor Urbanus:
M. Cvrivs Denatatvs
...

OOC:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Candidates who are not bolded are "fake", meaning I made them up. They are there so we can have a realistic election. As for the Quaestors, it would take forever to name. Actually, I am not going to name off a bunch of fakes anymore (but I don't want to destroy my work :laugh3:) so if you do not wish to vote for one of the characters, please just leave your votes blank.

The topics to vote on are as follows:
~~~
Mandate I - In abscense of Praetor Urbanus, first to volunteer takes position until return
Declaration I - War on Taras
Declaration II - War on Rhegium
Declaration III - Pursue Phyrros
Declaration IV - Fair treatment of Tarentines after War
Declaration V - Peace with Audei
Declaration VI - Peace with Arvenii
Declaration VII - Prioritization to Aediles of roads and ports
Voiced Opinion - Structure of Legion (Most similiar choice will be selected)
Declaration VIII - Alliance with Makedonia
Declaration IX - Peace with Epeirotes
Declaration X - Alliance with Konoin Hellonon

Please bold votes. Voiced Opinions must be entirely in bold. No re-voting.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OOC: Here, just copy/paste this and enter who you want:

P.M. -
Censors -
Consuls -
Praetor -
C.Aedile -
P. Aedile -
Quaestor -
P.T. -
M.T. -
P.U. -

For Mandates, use MI, MII, etc. Declarations DI, DII, etc. voiced opinions use:
[title of topic]
....
....
....
etc.

Remember, your votes sway the other 550+ Senators.

~~~

"And there you have it Senators."

Manivs folds his hands and waits for the quiet Senate house to yet again fill with noise.

Next meeting in 24 hours at 2145 GMT, 1745 EST.

*L. Cornelivs Scipio*
P.M. - ...
Censors - ...
Consuls - M. Cvurivs Dentatvs, L. Cornelivs Scipio
Praetor - ...
C.Aedile - ...
P. Aedile - T. Lepidvs Aqvila, ...
Quaestor - P. Tvllivs Lvnaris
P.T. - ...
M.T. - ...
P.U. - M. Cvrivs Dentatvs

Vote: For MI, DI, DII, DV, DVII, DX
Vote: Against DIII, DIV, DVI, DVIII, DIX

[Structure Of Legions]
Praetorian Legion:
1 General
2 Hastati
2 Princepes
2 Triarii
1 Rorarii
1 Leves
1 Accensi

Consular Legion:
1 General
4 Hastati
4 Princepes
4 Triarii
1 Rorarii
1 Leves
1 Accensi
2 Hastati Samnitici
1 Allied Cavalry
1 Cavalry (optional tribune)

Marcvs Rubellius Fulvius wishes to have his votes recorded as follows:

Mandate I - In absence of Praetor Urbanus, first to volunteer takes position until return Affirmative
Declaration I - War on Taras Negative
Declaration II - War on Rhegium Affirmative
Declaration III - Pursue Phyrros Negative
Declaration IV - Fair treatment of Tarentines after War Affirmative
Declaration V - Peace with Audei Negative
Declaration VI - Peace with Arvenii Negative
Declaration VII - Prioritization to Aediles of roads and ports Affirmative
Voiced Opinion - Structure of Legion (Most similiar choice will be selected)
Abstain
Declaration VIII - Alliance with Makedonia Affirmative
Declaration IX - Peace with Epeirotes Affirmative
Declaration X - Alliance with Konoin Hellonon Affirmative

Offices:
For Consul(2):
M. Cvrivs Dentatvs
L. Cornelivs Scipio

For Plebian Aedile(2):
T. Lepidvs Aqvila

For Quaestor(20):
Pvblivs Tvllivs Lvnaris

Declaration I - War on Taras:
Negative
Declaration II - War on Rhegium[/B]:
Affirmative
Declaration IV - Fair treatment of Tarentines after War:
Affirmative
Declaration V - Peace with Aedui:
Affirmative
Declaration VII - Prioritization to Aediles of roads and ports[/B]:
Affirmative
Voiced Opinion - Structure of Legion (Most similiar choice will be selected)[/B]:
Abstain
Declaration VIII - Alliance with Makedonia[/B]:
Negative
Declaration IX - Peace with Epeirotes:
Affirmative
Declaration X - Alliance with Konoin Hellonon:
Negative


Offices:
Consul(2):
M. Cvrivs Dentatvs
L. Cornelivs Scipio

For Plebian Aedile(2):
T. Lepidvs Aqvila

For Quaestor(20):
[Abstain]