Surprisingly good units

This is a topic that's gotten a lot of mileage on TWC which I thought I'd bring here.

What this is decidedly not about are elite units, or any other expensive and effective ones. Like pedites extraordinarii or argryraspides or the various types of assault infantry out there.

This thread is dedicated to those regular, possibly even cheap units which are surprisingly effective given how uninspiring they may seem statistically.

My top pick are Celto-Hellenic Spearmen.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...hellenikoi.gif

Available as mercs and hire-able for Gallic and Hellenic factions, they're cheap. Yet they're pretty much equal, stats-wise to Thureophoroi and seem much better at holding a line - even against phalanx units provided it isn't for too long. Get some experience on them and their morale becomes something terrible to behold. They're the mainstay of my battle line in my Pergamon game, and they never disappoint.

Next are Hellenic Heavy Skirmishers, or Peltastai.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u..._peltastai.gif

Again ridiculously cheap, available as mercs and recruitable by virtually anyone. Not only can they skirmish, but they make pretty reasonable medium infantry. Good armour and their sword has a high lethality (equal to a Roman gladius). Lots of javelins too and good stamina. They can hold your flanks, then move in to outflank, and still have the energy to chase down routers at the end of a battle.

The Thrakian variant are also not bad, slightly better armour and vicious AP swords, although they're not as skilled in melee.

Slingers. Bog-standard, basic slingers you get with many factions, whether Accensi, Sphendenotai or Iaosatae, they're all good.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...hendonetai.gif https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...an_accensi.gif https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...i_iaosatae.gif

Why? Cheap and effective against armour, meaning they cut through enemy skirmishers like nobody's business, and in the right position will even whittle down their elites or general. Get them some experience (easily done when they're killing hundreds a battle with their slings, then running down routing troops) and they become holy terrors. The Gallic variant are available as mercs to almost anyone too.

Curepos/Leuce Epos, the Gallic light cavalry.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u..._leuceepos.gif https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...ui_curepos.gif

These guys are brilliant. Available as mercs almost everywhere, and they're among the cheapest cavalry. Not only are they tireless, but they have AP lances. Meaning when you're done harrassing the enemy line, you can use them for shock charges to the rear. Don't leave them in melee, though, the slow attack time on a lance will get them slaughtered.

What units have other people discovered are very good, in spite of them being cheap and perhaps not so great on paper?

I couldn't agree more about peltasts, especially Thracians. They are the most versatile unit available IMHO.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u..._peltastai.gif

Prodromoi cavalry are pure winners too. Their variant from Thrace are even better. They have great charge, armor piercing weapons, excellent morale and, most importantly, unmatched stamina.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u..._prodromoi.gif https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u..._prodromoi.gif

Lately I've found that Ekdromoi Hoplitai are a surprisingly capable unit. They have the perfect balance between the Classical Hoplites' staying power and the mobility of Thureophoroi. They better than both in melee attack (of course Thureophoroi have javelins too), their defence is better than Thureophoroi and close to Classical Hoplites and they are 25% more numerous that both! Moreover they can be recruited in just level 2 native barracks. However they are a bit more expensive. I used them a lot to protect the flanks of the army and then outflank the enemy and chase the rooters.
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...i_hoplitai.gif

Definitely agree with you on the Prodromoi, I think they're better than heavy cavalry, myself. It's that speed, stamina and AP weapons combo that can't be beaten. Even in melee with other heavy cavalry they're survivable, largely because the AI is too stupid to switch to it's secondary weapon when it has a lance.

Dont have time nor energy (:thumbsdown:) to upload a picture, but I find the Pantodapoi Phalangitai, if used correctly, to be almost as good as Pezhetaiori or Argyraspidai for holding lines whilst being alot cheaper! That is, flanks protected and supported by flankers etc. The Argyraspidai and Pezhetairoi are better though, but sometimes I question their cost vs their effectivity compared to Pantodapoi Phalangitai! :smash:

As you wrote QS, Celto-Hellenic Spearmen are awesome. Clearly one of my favoured troops considering price vs. effectivity. Peltastai aswell, pure gold. Even better are the Thracian I think, if not for anything else but for roleplay (Thracians = Original peltasts, if I'm not misstaken) Slingers are also damn lethal, simply love them. Considering the amount of damage they inflict on enemy arrmies compared to their price.. Well, they're godlike simply. Prodromoi are also ace! And I simply love the Thracian variant. Makes it able to field a Thracian army (With Makedonia/AS) including cavalry! :beam:

Persian Archer-Spearmen. Ideal garrison unit, good archer unit and quite capable spearmen unit if charged by skirmisher cavalry or horse archers. Easily the most versatile unit in the east and still really cheap. Gotta love 'em.

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Originally Posted by Socy

Dont have time nor energy (:thumbsdown:) to upload a picture, but I find the Pantodapoi Phalangitai, if used correctly, to be almost as good as Pezhetaiori or Argyraspidai for holding lines whilst being alot cheaper! That is, flanks protected and supported by flankers etc. The Argyraspidai and Pezhetairoi are better though, but sometimes I question their cost vs their effectivity compared to Pantodapoi Phalangitai! :smash:

As you wrote QS, Celto-Hellenic Spearmen are awesome. Clearly one of my favoured troops considering price vs. effectivity. Peltastai aswell, pure gold. Even better are the Thracian I think, if not for anything else but for roleplay (Thracians = Original peltasts, if I'm not misstaken) Slingers are also damn lethal, simply love them. Considering the amount of damage they inflict on enemy arrmies compared to their price.. Well, they're godlike simply. Prodromoi are also ace! And I simply love the Thracian variant. Makes it able to field a Thracian army (With Makedonia/AS) including cavalry! :beam:

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I can oblige you there:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...halangitai.gif

Having seen the havoc Swordmaster can wreak with them against all and sundry, I'm convinced with phalangites it's how you use them that really matters.

Another unit who qualify are the Classical Hoplites.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...e_hoplitai.gif

Everyone can recruit them, they don't cost much, and they'll hold a line - even against a phalanx - forever.

Pantodapoi phalangitai for president. They've been indeed a hugely reliable unit, despite costing only 300-ish in upkeep. Plus, enormous AOR. If you can recruit them with one or two experience, you shouldn't bother recruiting Kleruchoi or Pezhetairoi (except for role-playing purposes) at all. The only negative thing I've noticed is that a head-on charge by heavy cavalry (kataphraktoi or hetairoi) can really throw the entire phalanx in chaos, which you won't have as easily with higher-ranking phalanx units. Of course, once the phalanx breaks, these levies are rubbish, and will run quickly.

Other units I think about now are:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...ui_botroas.gif
Botroas

Playing a Celtic faction, these guys can save your kingdom. In the range of 300 mnai upkeep, they can get their strength from numbers. IIRC, the Bataroas aren't very different.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u..._caetratii.gif
Iberian caetratii

For those playing in the western portions of the map, recruit these guys. They will eat up heavy infantry like you never thought was possible, as long as you don't have them outnumbered or surrounded.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...i_teceitos.gif

Cheap and flexible.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...ioihippeis.gif

Even without missles, I found this one the best light cavalry for their price.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...ian_swords.gif

Kartvelebi Dashna-Mebrdzolebi (Georgian Swordsmen), just in case you don't know them. They are very early available what makes them the backbone of the early Armenian army.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...an_velites.gifhttps://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...an_hastati.gif

Often underrated, but their high defense skill can make them a killer of enemy light infantry.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...skirmisher.gif

Clona Gosnasio (Northern Iberian Skirmisher) are an awesome unit to back up slingers and archers. When those have spent their missles, they might act as skirmishers or even light infantry.

Illyrian Hippeis are brilliant. They can shock charge again and again with those AP lances of theirs. Provided they're not alone, their axes are even good at taking out well-armoured cavalry.

In my Sweboz and Aedui campaigns I use the baltic archers to great effect. They have 80 men, good range and you can use them as reserve spearmen if needed.

Eastern Axeman and Cappadocian Hillmen, also Cappadocian Spearmen. (Apart from the various flavours of archers the East has got to offer.)

In fact, the whole East seems to be full of surprisingly good units, and interesting possibilities for deploying them. Even Pantodapoi can be surpringsily good units. ~:joker:

EDIT: Also, Skutjanz & Sotaroas are actually pretty decent, and the various Belgae units are just awesome.

Not the best troops but they surprised me when they defeated an attack from the Carthaginians:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...s_hoplitai.gif

:beam:

Velites and Illyrian Cavalry, you got to worship them otherwise the velites will pepper you with javelins, charge your lines, hold you down until the Illyrians sneak up behind your backs and stick those AP-lances where the sun don't shine.

Illyrian coastal leavies are great too...

Skutjanz

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...z_skutjanz.gif

They aren't that bad as archers, and once done with archering, they can plug gaps in your line with their spears, which can save the day for you. That many of them will die is rather unimportant since they are so cheap to replace.


Agrianikoi Pelekephoroi

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...iai_pellek.gif

I think they are just great. They are fast, can hurl their javelins a really long distance and are, most of all, apart-rippers of such godlike units like Thorakitai Argyraspides. You only have to keep them out of missile fire.

I'm not sure assault troops, who are by their very nature pretty good, qualify as "surprisingly" so.

https://i299.photobucket.com/albums/...ikapoinann.gifhttps://i299.photobucket.com/albums/...caetranann.gif

Combine this two cheap light infantary and you'll have a superb awesome fighting force, that can deal with basicly everything !

i love them!
:2thumbsup:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...iabarannta.gif


The Iabarannta are far better then I would have given them credit for. For whatever reason, whenever I let cavalry get in meele with them for more then 10 seconds, they start slaughtering them. Not just my Leuce Epos and Brihentin, but even my gold chevron Saka Cataphracts. Even when fighting my infantry they seem to do more damage then they should. I don't really remember fighting the Gaesamica, but since they have the exact same stats and model I'd image they just as strangely good.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...ma_hippeis.gif

I find these guys often more useful then my cataphracts in my Saka campaign. Very good heavy cavalry, just as useful as cataphracts since they are fast moving, hardy, and very good in meele against other cavalry. Catas often get exhausted after only a few charges, while these guys can keep going all battle long. I would have at least as many or more of them in my Indo-Greek armies then my Ysaninu Aysiramj. Plus look at that skin, they are dead sexy.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...an_rorarii.gif

The rorarii might be discarded as crappy garrison units, but think again! The huge stack of javelins gives these guy an advantage to similar units, and because of the close formation, they can actually hold down enemies while you send in the flankers. Before the polybian reforms, the rorarii is great!

Dont have pictures but... Sardinian infantry! Fantastic for killing Numidian rebel armies as Carthage. I just love archer-spearmen:2thumbsup:

You know they would be good...


https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...oz_drugule.gif
But not as good as they are.
They're main advantage is they're the ONLY unit that can have gold weapons, thats 17 attack right there(for the swords) and 22(17 for foot units 27 for cavalry) for the spears.
Also due to the temples to Tyr, they can get +3 to attack and defense.

So thats 30 attack vs cavalry fresh from the barracks, well able to destroy the western cavalry, and can destroy even the most powerful cataphracts.

They're also available as mercenaries for all factions.


I once used them in an town attack, the Gauls had 3 units of Teceitos, 2 units of Botroas, and 5 units of Lugae defending the gate.

I sent 3 units of the Hearthmen and they slaughtered the enemy force very quickly, suffering about 10 men(normal sized) to 220 gauls.

Afterwards the Gauls ran away, and gave me enough time to set up the battle line.

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Originally Posted by Jaertecken

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...an_rorarii.gif

The rorarii might be discarded as crappy garrison units, but think again! The huge stack of javelins gives these guy an advantage to similar units, and because of the close formation, they can actually hold down enemies while you send in the flankers. Before the polybian reforms, the rorarii is great!

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Definately agree with this one, I played a lot of Romani campaigns and these guys never saw any action, just sat behind my almost as rarely used Triarii. It took an Epirote campaign where I fought against them for me to realise how useful they actually are, they see a lot of action in my current campaign.

indeed Olaf, the Hearthmen are my secret weapon in my Sweboz campaign.
they are my core shock troops and i hire every single unit of them i can find, send them straight to my capital to get them their gold weapons and 3 copper chevrons xp and away they go to the front.

they are the only units that can stand their own against all the gallic uber-soldiers and are most effective against the roman elite infantry.

currently, after countless battles and constant merging depletet units with fresh ones, i have 4 units of them on level 6 (3 silver chevrons) and they are true weapons of mass destruction that can easily bind multiple enemy units and give them a good beating without dying much!

on the other hand i just don´t see mto be able to get them over 3 silver chevrons, no matter how many enemys they kill. training up true elites is quite hard in this game, isn´t it?

Now, for another suprisingly good unit: the Jungthiz germanic skirmishers.

they are cheap, can practically run forever, have a good amount of javelins to harrass the enemy and once they are somewhat experienced and outfitted, they make up for an extremely versatile light to medium infantry. perfect for flanking the enemy lines and attacking from the rear after they have drawn away some units.

even cavalry cannot do them much harm as long as you keep them spread out and in skirmish mode. so they are ideal to bind the enemy cavalry and draw them far away from the main battle.

also, as defenders on walls they are quite able. they can give the advancing enemy some good pelting with javelins, then hold the walls against everything but heavy infantry long enough to tire them out and whittle them down. and they are easy and cheap to retrain and maintain.

also very useful to take care of careless enemy archers and slingers, especially if you can manage to get them behind the enemy lines where the archers tend to linger.

all in all they might be one of the best overall skirmishing units next to thrakian peltasts and one of the most versatile and valuable early units for the Sweboz.

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Agrianikoi Pelekephoroi

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...iai_pellek.gif

I think they are just great. They are fast, can hurl their javelins a really long distance and are, most of all, apart-rippers of such godlike units like Thorakitai Argyraspides. You only have to keep them out of missile fire.

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I don't think I've ever seen these guys; who gets them and where?

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Originally Posted by Justinian II

I don't think I've ever seen these guys; who gets them and where?

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Makedonia and Epeiros in Pella, Tylis and Demetrias. Need a L4 factional barracks for them.

Perhaps not that surprising, but I think most iberian units are brutal. That's why taking Iberia's been like shoving meat into a grinder in my Karthadast campaign. I can't wait to get them myself.

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Originally Posted by Cadwalader

Perhaps not that surprising, but I think most iberian units are brutal. That's why taking Iberia's been like shoving meat into a grinder in my Karthadast campaign. I can't wait to get them myself.

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If anything, Qarthadast's Iberian roster is better than the Lusotanni's.

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Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

Makedonia and Epeiros in Pella, Tylis and Demetrias. Need a L4 factional barracks for them.

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Minor correction: they are available in Pella, Tylis and Serdike, not Demetrias.

The only way I'm able to judge an unit "surprisingly good" is when I have problems breaking it...

For me the grand-champions are African Elite Pikemen. IA Karth-Hadasht fields huge numbers of them and when playing Ptollies I often see them inflicting huge losses to my Agema Klerouchon (attacking from the front) and Tindanotae (attacking from the rear). Tough nuts to crack...

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Originally Posted by Tristuskhan

The only way I'm able to judge an unit "surprisingly good" is when I have problems breaking it...

For me the grand-champions are African Elite Pikemen. IA Karth-Hadasht fields huge numbers of them and when playing Ptollies I often see them inflicting huge losses to my Agema Klerouchon (attacking from the front) and Tindanotae (attacking from the rear). Tough nuts to crack...

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They're elites; they don't really qualify as "surprisingly" so because they're supposed to be that good. That's why they're expensive and have high stats.

Ethiopian Spearmen and Arabian light archer/spearmen are both surprisingly good units on the Sabyn or regional roster. The Ethiopians are cheap, but fast moving, and amongst the best light infantry that I have played with. The Archer spearmen do double duty, and they are slightly better than the Persian variant.

Baktrian Hippies - probably the best medium cavalry in the game... they hit like light cataphracts in a charge, and they don't wear out as quickly.

Indo Hellenic Medium Skirmishers - specialized elephant killers who double as Thureophoroi in a pinch... not bad for the cheapest Indo-Greek unit! Indian Longbowman and Infantry guild warriors are also amazing regionals...

Equites Campanici - Campanian Cavalry, not bad for western regional cavalry. I certainly expected them to be garbage, not even equal to the successor cavalry. Actually they are a decent light cav, and my units of them tend to maintain their combat effectiveness (less than 50% casualties) through multiple battles. They have a weak charge, but are a good melee unit...

Indo-Iranian light cavalry - wow... a "light Cavalry" with a charge value of 32, and a melee value of 9. Plus they have high morale... These guys are the best light cavalry in the game... Just imagine what they could do if you got them out west...

Subeshi Archers - the infantry general's answer to those pesky horse archers. Seriously, they outrange HA's and have a high lethality, plus they are cheap and available from a level 1 regional barracks.... just make sure that they stand behind some spear men.

Peltastai - ummm.... I am embarrassed to say that i never really used these guys to their full potential. In all of my campaigns, I thought that they were basically useless, and irrelevant to the battle line. Only after reading about how great they are in other people's campaigns did I ever try to use them. Now I am a believer. For me, these are surprisingly good units - easily the equal of the archer-spearmen of the east.

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Originally Posted by Irishmafia2020

Peltastai - ummm.... I am embarrassed to say that i never really used these guys to their full potential. In all of my campaigns, I thought that they were basically useless, and irrelevant to the battle line. Only after reading about how great they are in other people's campaigns did I ever try to use them. Now I am a believer. For me, these are surprisingly good units - easily the equal of the archer-spearmen of the east.

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It's their armour, the lethality of their sword and their stamina. It's a pretty lethal combination, especially because swordsmen are automatically 4 points of attack up on spearmen.

I'm musing over whether these guys qualify:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...azali_merc.gif

Uazali are in a similar spot to Peltastai - medium infantry who can duke it out even with heavier ones for a time. Great flankers, though not as versatile as the aforementioned skirmishers.

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Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

I'm musing over whether these guys qualify:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...azali_merc.gif

Uazali are in a similar spot to Peltastai - medium infantry who can duke it out even with heavier ones for a time. Great flankers, though not as versatile as the aforementioned skirmishers.

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...and not easily retrained if you take them away from Karia.

They are good light infantry, but always take heavy casualties in my armies.
If I use a few units of them in an army outside Asia Minor, then after three battles or so I only have half a unit left. And then I replace them by Peltastai.

Not easily retrained (I don't anyway), but available more widely in a merc variant anyway.

Good point.

What about morale? I find them a bit more prone to rout than my Peltastai.

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Originally Posted by Mediolanicus

Good point.

What about morale? I find them a bit more prone to rout than my Peltastai.

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According to the unit cards, they're the same on morale. Basically Uazali have less javelins (3 compared to Peltastai's 6), but higher attack (by 1 point) and defense (by 1 point). Otherwise they're broadly the same.

How about this one?

I'm using them in my Romani campaign as medium assault infantry. However, due to their axes they are uncapable of holding the line. If I can use them to their full potential they can kill around 200 enemies while taking less than 50 casualties themselves.


Tekastos (Rhaetic Axemen)
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...l_tekastos.gif

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Originally Posted by Mediolanicus

How about this one?

I'm using them in my Romani campaign as medium assault infantry. However, due to their axes they are uncapable of holding the line. If I can use them to their full potential they can kill around 200 enemies while taking less than 50 casualties themselves.


Tekastos (Rhaetic Axemen)
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...l_tekastos.gif

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The Alpine Iphrikates Hoplites have axes as their secondary weapon, so use them as line troops and Teskatos as flankers


They are awesome btw.

Iphicratean hopites are uderrated IMO; they are more flexible than a classical phalanx, they're more cohesive, and make for good melee fighters, should the phalanx break. all in all, excellent unit, yet rarely mentioned by many a player in greece.:shame:

also, camilan Hastati are underrated; true, morale, stats and otherwise are mediocre, but they make great frontline troops, tiring the enemy, so that their superiors can finish them off.

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Originally Posted by Ibrahim

Iphicratean hopites are uderrated IMO; they are more flexible than a classical phalanx, they're more cohesive, and make for good melee fighters, should the phalanx break. all in all, excellent unit, yet rarely mentioned by many a player in greece.:shame:

also, camilan Hastati are underrated; true, morale, stats and otherwise are mediocre, but they make great frontline troops, tiring the enemy, so that their superiors can finish them off.

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Yeah I had a very good experience with a mercenary unit of Iphricatean Hoplites as Hayasdan, along with a unit of Thessalians. Made a very good minature version of Hammer and anvil that worked very well.

There are many varieties of them too...

Normals..
Mail armoured
Mail armoured elites(Ptolemies)
Indogreek..
Alpine...
Helvetii..
Getai Light
Getai Heavy :P

..Is that it?

Iphicrateans are good but imho I preferred them in 1.0 as they were a quite flexible phalanx (gotta love the getai and helvetii versions).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mediolanicus

How about this one?

I'm using them in my Romani campaign as medium assault infantry. However, due to their axes they are uncapable of holding the line. If I can use them to their full potential they can kill around 200 enemies while taking less than 50 casualties themselves.


Tekastos (Rhaetic Axemen)
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...l_tekastos.gif

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They are really very very good. to date the only unit that as been able to rout an Epirote Elite Phalanx. On their own. In a FRONTAL assault. (I HATE those frigging EEP's... Hate 'em)

https://img530.imageshack.us/img530/...kletoihqy7.jpg
first in my current greekgame, i just want to test them how they fight without phalanx (many peopel think that there´re useless now), but i was really surprised how good they perform with the sword in hand to hand battle (the performance was even better than thorakitai or normal hoplitai). they kill most of the macedon elites very soon.
i do most of the hard jobs with them and they never break or let me down. they are very flexible (sword/spear) and grizzled.
with the sword they fight similar like heavy scutarii or marian legions, so that really surprised me.

I've always had good luck with Massaliotai Hoplitai

https://i253.photobucket.com/albums/...i_hoplitai.gif

Not once do I recall these guys routing despite taking heavy losses. They hold the line every time. Look pretty good too.

Both Tabargane Eranshahr

https://i34.tinypic.com/n2fxgg.jpg

And Kofyaren-i Verkhana

https://i33.tinypic.com/99lzwo.jpg

really surprised me in my current Baktrian campaign. They are lightly armoured and thus are cheap ,but are tough fighters and very good flankers. I have destroyed many of Selukids Phalanx armies with purely iranian armies (many times outnumbered) and these guys always saved me :smiley: I suggest you to try them ,They won't disappoint you :wink:

I don't have pictures for them, but i have two units that i have found to be surprisingly good. They are the Asya Badarai (Saka Heavy Cavalry), and the Aspet Hetselazor (Armenian Medium Cavalry), and they are just simply awesome. They have a great charge, and those axes really make mince-meat out of any armored unit, cav, or infantry. After the horse archers tire the enemy out, charge these guys in and the carnage begins. They are also good because these two factions are on quite a tight budget early on, and this unit can fill multiple roles on the cheap, armor piercing cav, and psuedo heavy cav without the usual heavy armor found in eastern armies.

Anyone else agree with me?

How are we bashing the Phalanx, my elite phalanx has taken countless battles from all the factions. Use the hammer technique from Makedonia and its automatic victory for me, every time. If you want to degrade the Phalanx with your useless banter you better look elsewhere, or else my Phalanx is going to come for you and everybody you know. My Phalanx has no heart and it cannot disseminate between good and evil, right and wrong, or innocent and guilty. It only has one mission objective and that is to kill without mercy. So be forewarned or you shall fall victim to my omnipotent Phalanx system. Watch out for snakes.

Check out my AAR on the Makedonia Spartan league based off the campaign
"Take of a Makedonia Spartan"

Eh? No one said pikes were bad.

Putting in my two bits for the Iberian Medium Spearman. Can hold the line, recieve a cav charge, stand toe-to-toe with the Principes, encircle phalanxes AND "Fast Moving". For me, they are the perfect combination of tough and fast.

A related question however, how does one get those nifty pics that you all are posting, I should like to accumulate my favorite troops into a folder and make that my screen saver folder - oh yeah.

A sidenote, a heavy emphasis on Eastern Factions in this thread. I am assuming that this is merely a reflection of most people's preferences to play "out East". I admit, I love me some barbarian factions, but the inability to fully "develop" my civilization always causes me to return to the "civilized" factions. Thus, I will often play a fringe barbarian faction, frustration will set in, and my next campaign is inevitably a center faction. Just a sidenote.

For the pics I just go the that faction's page in the EB site, look for the unit/unit pic there, and copy it's location.

Cataphract elephants: I don't care how much they cost; any unit that can take on 600+ men and win rock in my book.

what faction are they for???

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Originally Posted by Tiberius Aurelius Cotta

what faction are they for???

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IIRC, it's Seleukids, Ptolemaioi, Baktria, and Saka.

EDIT: It seems the Seleukids are the only ones able to recruit them in the Mediterranean area (Antioch).

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...n_kambojas.gif

The Kambojans (Indo-Iranian light cavalry) can not be praised enough. These guys kick aaaaaaaaaaass! They are quick, and their value as "Eastern Prodromoi" is a sure winner. Here are a few others who take the bill as well:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...oi_hippeis.gif https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...da_asabara.gif https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...ka_lancers.gif https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...lanna_baex.gif

They are bang for the buck. Now, I consider the Bactrian Hippeis to actually be extra-heavy cavalry due to the added barding, but their field of use is of such similar nature, I must excuse myself. The two last ones are the Steppe Hell's Angels as I call them. If I play as Saka, I make sure to at least have 25% of these guys formed up for one gigantic charge, after the horse-archers have finished with loosening up the enemy, and "closing the sphere" with horse-archers enveloping for butchery.

Celtic factions should consider themselves lucky for not having to face nomads early.

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...ry_milnaht.gif

With 462 upkeep and only level 3 barracks needed, absolutly not elites - but fight like devils. In every assault on a city I used these in my Casse campaign they get out with about 1:10 kills against mediocre enemies like spearmen (the record was some 450 killed enemies in one battle, by one unit of Milnaht of course), and still use to win against better units like Botroas or even Druids.


https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u..._kluddobro.gif

Another must-have in early Casse armies. They die like flies under missle fire and won't survive against regular swordfighters, but are able to kill lots of (much more expensive) spearmen like Cemmeinarn.

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Originally Posted by Jaertecken

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...an_rorarii.gif
The rorarii might be discarded as crappy garrison units, but think again!

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Very underrated. As the role of the actual Rorarii remains somewhat unclear, and at the scale EB is played, I view this unit type as a form of Italic auxiliary or allied light infantry. Rorarii units along with the Accensi, which I also view as auxiliaries, typically make up about half (in the number of men) or more, of my pre-Polybian armies. That’s unless I use Hoplitai units as auxiliaries. Actually, all three units are very useful as part of a combined arms team. Individually, not so much. I never use them for garrisons because of the cost.

Yet again no pictures (Actually, I'll sneak in a question here, how do you upload them anyway? :clown:) but:

Kavakaza Sparabara - Caucasian Spearmen

Hai Nizagamartik - Armenian Spearmen

Kovkasi Lernain Netadzik - Caucasian Archers

Neither of these units have ever disappointed me in my Hayasdan campaigns (Early game that is) and I've been able to conquer the entire Caucasus-region (The city where Hayasdan and the nearby settlements, 5-8 something, not sure and dont have EB available for checking) with armies consisting only of Kavakaza Sparabara and Kovkasi Lernain Netadzik in my early games (And family members, wich.. Might be tad bit better in terms of quality.). The Kavakaza are really good considering their price, same goes for the Kovkasi, in my oppinion In all my Macedonian/Seleucid games I also make sure to hire some Caucasian archers, I just think they are plain awesome :smash:.

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Originally Posted by Socy

Yet again no pictures (Actually, I'll sneak in a question here, how do you upload them anyway? :clown:)

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Go onto the EB website, and browse the unit rosters for the factions. If you can't find it there, chances are it's in the Eleutheroi roster.

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Originally Posted by Disciple of Tacitus

Putting in my two bits for the Iberian Medium Spearman. Can hold the line, recieve a cav charge, stand toe-to-toe with the Principes, encircle phalanxes AND "Fast Moving". For me, they are the perfect combination of tough and fast.

A related question however, how does one get those nifty pics that you all are posting, I should like to accumulate my favorite troops into a folder and make that my screen saver folder - oh yeah.

A sidenote, a heavy emphasis on Eastern Factions in this thread. I am assuming that this is merely a reflection of most people's preferences to play "out East". I admit, I love me some barbarian factions, but the inability to fully "develop" my civilization always causes me to return to the "civilized" factions. Thus, I will often play a fringe barbarian faction, frustration will set in, and my next campaign is inevitably a center faction. Just a sidenote.

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In my Lusotannan AAR the medium spearmen are my mainline troops. They hold up to most anything long enough that I can either withdraw them after taking a beating or try to flank with lighter infantry. I have been very impressed with their performance! Very durable troops with good morale

This is probably a partial thread hijack, but what would you say was the best foot archer unit available to the Seleukids in the Eastern half of the map?

Depends on. If you want a robust foot-archer unit, then the Heavy Persian archers. If you want something to kill off horse-archers with, then the Iranian archer-spearmen. If you want range, then go for Subeshi archers. If you look down south, you'll also find the Indian longbows too and they are able to deal a beating in melee.

If you want to kill off horse archers I'd still go for the Subeshi. I've seen what those guys do in a melee to Kamboja cavalry (capable medium melee cavalry) and let's just say it's not pretty. <_<

I favor the basic Persian Archers, personally. Longer range than the archer-spearmen, slightly cheaper, and available in a level 1 MIC rather than level 2. And they have a huge recruitment zone, unlike the Subeshis (who are quite good if you can get them, granted). As I've argued elsewhere, if your archers are in melee, you've screwed up. ~:) So I only ever use archer-spearmen in tiny second or third string armies, mostly rebel-quashing or as the garrison of a rebel-prevention fort.

Mardian archers are also quite good, though not very widespread.

https://i299.photobucket.com/albums/...exsdzhytae.gif
They are.......a.killing machines.... :inquisitive:

all hail to the Skuda Fat Aexsdzhytae !

HAIL!

"Crap why arent those phalanxes dieing omg!"
"thats becuz ur hitting them head on with missles!"
"go gogog Skuda Fat Aexsdzhytae go hit them in da back"
"roger"
"wth why no effect.... nvm run!"

thats basicly wat happens 2 me but are quite cheap n effective HA non the less

HA aren't really a surprisingly good unit, since everyone knows human controlled HA will rape anything and everything the AI can send at you.

I love the illyrian spearmen (Illyrioi Thureophoroi), they are my most trusted auxiliary infantry!

(wearing funny helmets too)

Well it appears that the Indians will be out of reach, since the Baktrians have an army moving to take that Coastal Indian settlement and my sea expedition hasnt even left Charax yet.
And I cant get to Subeshi Archers without routing a horde of horse archers, which would negate my need for them :no:

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Originally Posted by Fondor_Yards

HA aren't really a surprisingly good unit, since everyone knows human controlled HA will rape anything and everything the AI can send at you.

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indeed that is true :yes:

Indian Longbowmen. Utterly FANTASTIC garrison force. long range bows, plus can, with relative ease, destroy any wall-bound phalangities. was assaulting Gandahara on my Baktrian campaign, and they utterly destroyed 4 phalanxes, and 2 spearmen, AND they were under heavy HA fire for the majority of the time. their losses? about 70 men. just incredible.

https://i299.photobucket.com/albums/...ai_komatai.gif

Another unit that i consider to be very effective when properly employed :beam:
Cheap, fast, easy to replace, can harass the enemy, can fight for a while on melee combat, enough time to you send heavier units to finish your foe off, and they're also great ambushers (Yes, i do use ambushes....a lot)

:2thumbsup:

For all these units, can people please put thew names on the pics, so we know what they are. Thanks muchly!

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Originally Posted by Havok.

https://i299.photobucket.com/albums/...ai_komatai.gif

Another unit that i consider to be very effective when properly employed :beam:
Cheap, fast, easy to replace, can harass the enemy, can fight for a while on melee combat, enough time to you send heavier units to finish your foe off, and they're also great ambushers (Yes, i do use ambushes....a lot)

:2thumbsup:

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Komatai (Dacian Skirmishers)
''The Komatai, also called 'daoi' or 'wolves,' make up the bulk of the tribal forces of the Getai. Untamed warriors, they are still capable of versatile maneuvers on the battlefield. They fight bare-headed to assure the gods of their fervor and willingness to arrive at their side. The Komatai go to battle wearing studded leather armor, baggy trousers and a large oval shield. They also carry with them javelins and a sica. They are best used as skirmishers for hit-and-run tactics and can be deadly in forests. If forced into melee they can hold their own against other light and even some medium infantry.''

I really hate Peltastai, they can't hold their own in melee at all. Hoplitai Haploi though, that's another question. They guys are dirt cheap and can hold a defensive line and wear down much superior enemies for ages.

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Originally Posted by Dumbass

I really hate Peltastai, they can't hold their own in melee at all.

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I really do have to wonder what you're doing with them. Sure you can't put them in the centre of a line, but I find them every bit as durable as (Polybian) hastati or Bruttian infantry.

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Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

I really do have to wonder what you're doing with them. Sure you can't put them in the centre of a line, but I find them every bit as durable as (Polybian) hastati or Bruttian infantry.

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then my peltestai hate me... (as much as I dislike them) honestly I have waaaay better experiences using roman leves, today they lasted nearly as much as my polybian hastati and they were in the middle of the battle line fighting against phalanxes

I had a silver chevron unit of peltastai in iberia which was fighting one on one with some scortmavelue. They really quickly got torn apart with the iberians left with a lot of their unit intact. Also considering that my general was 9 command and 10 influence, they would have had +9 attack/defense bonuses.

General's command stars add to morale and defense. Not attack.

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Originally Posted by ||Lz3||

then my peltestai hate me... (as much as I dislike them) honestly I have waaaay better experiences using roman leves, today they lasted nearly as much as my polybian hastati and they were in the middle of the battle line fighting against phalanxes

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Make sure also to take them off skirmish mode. I find that helps a bit. And make sure they're close together, not spaced rediculously far apart. I have pretty good results with them that way,and I try to keep two in each of my field armies. They're basically jack-of-all-trades, for me.

peltasts are the ultimate grunt infrantry of the ancient world. If you're failing with them, that means you're not using them properly. I have 4 units of them with 6 exp in my army, standing next to my galatian kolurochoi on the right of my phalanxes, they can pretty much rip anything...ANYTHING apart. They gain exp pretty fast too, and they're easily found in pretty much every settlement, merge them after every 2 battles or so and u'll see the chevs stack up.

I bet you, an "imitation legion" made up of peltasts and thorakitai will pwn a polybian legion hands down.