-
Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
He said that, as imam, he could not forbid Muslim women from standing for election, but he would be entitled to forbid his wife. “Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do. I can tell my wife, but cannot tell other women, ‘You cannot do this and that',” he said.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4258052.ece
So this :daisy: thinks that he can order his wife what to do because he lives in Britain? I wish I had his cajones.
Talk about a bigoted mysogenistic outlook.
Quote:
They can't understand my mainstream views and those of ‘live and let live' and how the British culture should be respected ... It has been extremely hard for me and my family and if it wasn't for my British constituents, I don't think I would have been able to get through it.”
Good for her. These medieval goons who are threatening her should be prosecuted for undermining the democratic process. Bring back the birch. :whip:
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
You just have to respect that. Brave woman by the way. But this isn't really that bad, imam acknowledges that he must respect brittish values and doesn't impose anything. Sucks to be his wife but he understands that religion is a personal thing, that's enough for me really.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Bring back the birch eh , and would the good man like a nice strong stick to beat the {lovely} lady with ?
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
I'm sure that the rule of thumb might apply here.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Just for you IA ,a link :2thumbsup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pytZ...eature=related
2 minutes into it
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tribesman
Hurray for the taming of another shrew. True love is edgy, boys. I have personally spanked my wife more than once to set her some clear boundaries. I would do so again any time I find it necessary and she knows this. And she loves it. She hates to love it, but she does because she chose me as her partner for life, and as a man who would do what he thought she needed.
Somebody in Britain, explain that to the imam. Oh, and to Tribesy, because he doesn't seem to get it either.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
I'm unclear on who the birch is to be used on (not in the clip; that's clear enough - tho' Thornton 'loses' the stick before he confronts the Brother-in-Law).
Funny how both the clip and the article, and our conversation, are all about assimilation of immigrants, Muslims to UK (today) and Americans to Ireland (in the 50's), yet with such different emphasis' on physical aggression.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Typical muslim values. Luckily she hasn't been raped, or he'd have to kill her. That wouldn't be a big deal though, as he could barter with some other man for his daughter. She'd have to be a virgin of course, because young brides forced into marriage who aren't virgins are nothing but trash who deserve to be killed by their fathers. At some point though, after a lot of window shopping and wife killing, he'd find a woman not deserving of Allah's wrath for one reason or another.
We can't do much about how these :daisy: act in the Middle East, but shame on us for letting it happen in the West. :shame:
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
I was being ironic about bringing back the birch. :sweatdrop:
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Once again, I condemn and regret my irony-impaired american-ness. :)
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Perhaps an irony smiley? :laugh4:
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PanzerJaeger
Typical muslim values.
A typically ridiculous statement.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
And a typically need to defend, why defend it that's rediculous. And yes I know you were reacting to PZ comment very specifically. But PZ is right those are pretty damn there in islamic values culture and they even used to be common here go figure.
edit
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fragony
And a typically need to defend, why defend it that's rediculous. And yes I know you were reacting to PZ comment very specifically. But PZ is right those are pretty damn there in islamic values culture and they even used to be common here go figure.
Not defending the guy in the first post at all, I was(as you understood), responding solely to PJ's extremely generalized view.
How can it be a muslim thing when a fair share of muslim have never even heard of things like arranged marriages or honour killings?
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoreTore
Not defending the guy in the first post at all, I was(as you understood), responding solely to PJ's extremely generalized view.
How can it be a muslim thing when a fair share of muslim have never even heard of things like arranged marriages or honour killings?
Well a fair share of muslims can read or write, we don't have the smart ones here just the farmers. "I go the medieval times and bring back............." <-new game
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoreTore
How can it be a muslim thing when a fair share of muslim have never even heard of things like arranged marriages or honour killings?
:inquisitive:
That must have been a statistic I've missed. Somehow I doubt it.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dâriûsh
That must have been a statistic I've missed. Somehow I doubt it.
Haven't seen any statistics, but I personally know quite a few muslims who didn't know of such things before they came here to Norway.
Libya is one such country.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoreTore
How can it be a muslim thing when a fair share of muslim have never even heard of things like arranged marriages or honour killings?
Really? You feel muslim women are treated with equality in immigrant communities? This story and a thousand others seems to contradict that rosey outlook.
Quote:
It isn't just about me any more - it is about thousands of other women who are being held down by people who refuse to wake up to the reality that it is the 21st century.
Muslim culture as practiced in the Middle East and exported to Europe and other parts of the world is broken, demented, and sadistic. It breeds the hatred and terrorism that has poured over into our own countries. Honor killings and arranged marriages are just the tip of the ice berg of abuse against women, physical and mental, that runs rampant in these communities. We don't even need to discuss what happens to converts to other religions, homosexuals, jews, underage girls, and other offenders of allah, do we?
Luckily there are brave women like this who demonstrate that the problem is the culture, not the people. When put into an environment where they are allowed, contemporary-minded muslims can succeed just like anybody else, even, gasp, women! I bet no one was more surprised than that Imam. Maybe he'll allow his wife out of the house a bit more... err... probably not.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoreTore
Haven't seen any statistics, but I personally know quite a few muslims who didn't know of such things before they came here to Norway.
Libya is one such country.
Stop blabbering and start educating yourself and your Libyan friends. In a free world ignorance is no excuse.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PanzerJaeger
Really? You feel muslim women are treated with equality in immigrant communities? This story and a thousand others seems to contradict that rosey outlook.
You missed my point. No, things are not rosey. However, there's a HUGE variation within the "muslim community". A man from pakistan has his way of doing things, a man from Libya has a completely different one. Both claim that their way of doing things is the correct way according to Islam, of course...
Like honour killings. The Libyan my sister is living with had never heard of it, and he is a religious muslim who attended Quran school in his youth because he wanted to.
Or take female circumcision. Both christians and muslims do it in africa, and both justify it with "god says so". Ask any christian or muslim from a place other than where they practice it, and he would most likely say they're crazy.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Adrian II
Stop blabbering and start educating yourself and your Libyan friends. In a free world ignorance is no excuse.
You and I both know that I will never stop blabbering, gramps ~;)
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PanzerJaeger
Muslim culture as practiced in the Middle East and exported to Europe and other parts of the world is broken, demented, and sadistic. It breeds the hatred and terrorism that has poured over into our own countries. Honor killings and arranged marriages are just the tip of the ice berg of abuse against women, physical and mental, that runs rampant in these communities. We don't even need to discuss what happens to converts to other religions, homosexuals, jews, underage girls, and other offenders of allah, do we?
Beats me.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoreTore
You and I both know that I will never stop blabbering, gramps ~;)
Yes, that's because your 'communism' is fake.
Your so-called leftist political views are all talk and no political conscience. You conveniently pass over the fate of the worst victims of social injustice, i.e. women, because you want to celebrate ethnic minorities and migrants as the new proletariat. I spit on such a cheap view of solidarity.
Blabber on, comrade; nobody is listening anyway.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Adrian II
Yes, that's because your 'communism' is fake.
Your so-called leftist political views are all talk and no political conscience. You conveniently pass over the fate of the worst victims of social injustice, i.e. women, because you want to celebrate ethnic minorities and migrants as the new proletariat. I spit on such a cheap view of solidarity.
Blabber on, comrade; nobody is listening anyway.
Wow AdrianII even my evil side would salute you for such ruthlessness but why not hug your pillow looks like she needs you
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Adrian II
Yes, that's because your 'communism' is fake.
Your so-called leftist political views are all talk and no political conscience. You conveniently pass over the fate of the worst victims of social injustice, i.e. women, because you want to celebrate ethnic minorities and migrants as the new proletariat. I spit on such a cheap view of solidarity.
Bah. I'm arguing against completely retarded generalizations(ie. "all muslims this and that"), not against people opposed to oppression of women, who I agree with. I have absolutely no good thoughts towards people like the guy in the OP, but my way of removing such ideas is different.
Beat the muslims the same way we've beaten the christians, I say.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PanzerJaeger
Really? You feel muslim women are treated with equality in immigrant communities? This story and a thousand others seems to contradict that rosey outlook.
Muslim culture as practiced in the Middle East and exported to Europe and other parts of the world is broken, demented, and sadistic. It breeds the hatred and terrorism that has poured over into our own countries. Honor killings and arranged marriages are just the tip of the ice berg of abuse against women, physical and mental, that runs rampant in these communities. We don't even need to discuss what happens to converts to other religions, homosexuals, jews, underage girls, and other offenders of allah, do we?
Luckily there are brave women like this who demonstrate that the problem is the culture, not the people. When put into an environment where they are allowed, contemporary-minded muslims can succeed just like anybody else, even, gasp, women! I bet no one was more surprised than that Imam. Maybe he'll allow his wife out of the house a bit more... err... probably not.
Bloody hell. An awful lot of what PZ says is true. Like it or lump it.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Adrian II
Yes, that's because your 'communism' is fake.
Your so-called leftist political views are all talk and no political conscience. You conveniently pass over the fate of the worst victims of social injustice, i.e. women, because you want to celebrate ethnic minorities and migrants as the new proletariat. I spit on such a cheap view of solidarity.
Blabber on, comrade; nobody is listening anyway.
Amen. :bow:
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PanzerJaeger
Really? You feel muslim women are treated with equality in immigrant communities? This story and a thousand others seems to contradict that rosey outlook.
...
Honor killings and arranged marriages are just the tip of the ice berg of abuse against women, physical and mental, that runs rampant in these communities. We don't even need to discuss what happens to converts to other religions, homosexuals, jews, underage girls, and other offenders of allah, do we?
Just in case you make the mistake of assuming that the phenomenon is not as prevalent in non-Muslim communities:
Facts & Figures on Violence Against Women
Domestic and Intimate Partner Violence
Violence Against Women in the United States
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
britain is only 50 years ahead of the view expressed in the OP,
up until the fifties domestic violence against women was common place.
it wasn't talked about, but it happened a lot.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
I think we're getting a bit derailed here. I believe the main point of this thread was the fact that a religious nut talked about how he could tell his wife what to do.
Interestingly, and to add a little spice to the subject, a female friend of mine apologetically told me how she was pressured into voting for a far right anti-Muslim (by their own words) and anti-immigrant party in the last national election by her boyfriend. Both of them are, as far as I know, non-religious western Europeans. Douchebaggery towards women needn't have a cultural or religious foundation.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dâriûsh
Just in case you make the mistake of assuming that the phenomenon is not as prevalent in non-Muslim communities
You are quite right. And there are very few comparative studies of the phenomenon. Too few to underpin the claim that violence against women is more prevalent in predominantly Islamic countries.
Nonetheless there are two aspects that set Islam apart.
The first is that violence against women is either legal or condoned by law in Islamist dictatorships such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and Pakistan. Of all the countries that have enacted laws against violence against women, only one or two (I believe Bangladesh and Malaysia) are predominantly Muslim.
The other aspect is that Islam has a universalist outlook and Islamism by nature has a universal claim to power and world dominance. "We" in the West don't care much that five women are burned every day in Hindu India because their families couldn't or wouldn't cough up their dowries. But we do care when similar violence is perpetrated in the name of Islam, because Islam is constantly held up by Muslim preachers as a superior way of life for all mankind. We feel both mocked and threatened by it, whereas we don't feel mocked and threatened by similar violence perpetrated in other cultures.
Your thoughts please, dear Dâriûsh. You and I may have fallen out in the past sometimes, but never in a spiteful way, and you were sorely missed by all in this forum. Good to "have you back".
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Oh, and to Tribesy, because he doesn't seem to get it either.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
I get it perfectly well Adrian , just like I get that it isn't hard to find a clergyman that will make bloody stupid comments on any subject , and like I get that it ain't just a muslim thing .
And as for the 1:6 ratio in politics ..bloody hell that ain't that bad , in fact its pretty average , there are western countries with worse men:women ratios than that , compare for example the US and Bangladesh , pretty similar huh :yes:
So your point was ? or would you like some details on mainsteam western groups who think women should be at home having babies and who think that it is men who have the right to tell their women what to do and what to think ?:thumbsdown:
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoreTore
Beat the muslims the same way we've beaten the christians, I say.
Hate speech!!! :furious3:
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
I get it perfectly well Adrian , just like I get that it isn't hard to find a clergyman that will make bloody stupid comments on any subject , and like I get that it ain't just a muslim thing .
No, you don't get the point of your own little movie clip, which is that a woman hands Wayne the stick to beat the lovely O'Hara with. And why? To get through to her, to conquer her pride and her resistance to him. But he finds a better way to do that: he fights over her instead of with her. This has nothing whatsoever to do with judicial flogging or domestic violence.
Your post is just one more attempt to trivialise violence against women, like HoreTore's remark that his Libyan friends have never heard of honour killings. Shall we go and look together for the accompanying movie clip, Tribesman? I would suggest that scene from Zorba the Greek where the widow gets slaughtered because she defiled her late husband's honour. It doesn't prove anything, except that Quinn was a bloody good actor. But hey, it's a western honour killing. And we've got the footage, man!
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Adrian II
Your post is just one more attempt to trivialise violence against women, like HoreTore's remark that his Libyan friends have never heard of honour killings.
Uhm.... what?
My point/post had nothing to do with violence towards women at all, Adrian.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Hey Adrian , is that better way before or after he kicks her in the arse ?
Quote:
Your post is just one more attempt to trivialise violence against women
Is it really ?:no:
But just for you .
What do you say to a woman with two black eyes ?
Nothing because she doesn't listen .
Now there are two ways to take that , which one are you opting for ?
Hey for a better one why not go back to the topic on the Frog Ward killing and have a laugh at the patheticness of his wifes testimony and her excuses for the bastard .
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
My point/post had nothing to do with violence towards women at all, Adrian.
Yes, it did. These are your words about arranged marriages and honour killings:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Haven't seen any statistics, but I personally know quite a few muslims who didn't know of such things before they came here to Norway. Libya is one such country.
Like honour killings. The Libyan my sister is living with had never heard of it, and he is a religious muslim who attended Quran school in his youth because he wanted to.
If arranged marriages and honour killings do not qualify as violence against women, then what does?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tribesman
Hey Adrian , is that better way before or after he kicks her in the arse ?
Tribesman, I don't know how old you are, but I suppose you are old enough to have some idea of the birds and the bees and all that.
Now, you know very well that most women need a kick in the :daisy: - literally or figuratively - before they realise that you truly, deeply love them. And I don't mean a black eye or a beating or anything cruel at all, but a reality check. True or not?
And do you know why that is? Precisely because men have treated them like cattle for so long, and still do in many ways, even if only in "jest".
The O'Hara character refuses to be bought or sold, that's the whole point of the movie. Along comes the Wayne character who burns the money in the oven, in front of everyone, and gives her whole rotten family what for. That's when she tells him he'll "have his dinner on the table". It's not the kick up the a***, but the kick in the old fellow's liver what did it.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Adrian II
Yes, it did. These are your words about arranged marriages and honour killings:If arranged marriages and honour killings do not qualify as violence against women, then what does?
The point was about PJ's talk about a "muslim culture", Adrian. He talked like every muslim from Morocco to Bangladesh had the same culture, and that's just plain wrong.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Adrian II
Hurray for the taming of another shrew. True love is edgy, boys. I have personally spanked my wife more than once to set her some clear boundaries. I would do so again any time I find it necessary and she knows this. And she loves it. She hates to love it, but she does because she chose me as her partner for life, and as a man who would do what he thought she needed.
Somebody in Britain, explain that to the imam. Oh, and to Tribesy, because he doesn't seem to get it either.
Spanking of one's wife or girlfriend should only be done for mutual enjoyment. Just like God intended.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Goofball
Spanking of one's wife or girlfriend should only be done for mutual enjoyment. Just like God intended.
You are a wise man, Goofball. :bow: :laugh4:
-
Re : Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
This sort of thread again? I guess before we'll reach page five the acts of any non-Westerner to control, rape, maim, flog or murder women will have been, first, denied, next, 'put into perspective', then, defended by the left.
('It doesn't exist, and besides, we do it too')
Not, of course, that the rights of women (or homosexuals, or minorities) mean anything to the right unless and until they can foam about them being violated by non-Westerners.
Whatever. I'll go all noir and Adrian and leave it at this bit of dark sarcasm.
Oh, must not forget my usual statement: Fragony has got more brains than the entire European left combined. (No sarcasm.)
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoreTore
The point was about PJ's talk about a "muslim culture", Adrian. He talked like every muslim from Morocco to Bangladesh had the same culture, and that's just plain wrong.
PJ was right about the larger frame of things.
Here is what a 2005 UN report has to say about women in Bangladesh:
As a South Asian country, Bangladesh is no different from its neighbors. Violence
against women is amongst the most serious threats to overall development and
progress in Bangladesh. Widespread violence and repression in numerous forms puts
women’s lives at risk in almost all parts of the country. This is further compounded by
the gender bias against women in the society. Before discussing the nature and extent
of violence against women it is important to focus on the general socio-economic and
legal rights of women in Bangladesh. [..] Despite constitutional guarantees of gender equality and legislative and other affirmative interventions, the status of Bangladeshi women is on the whole dismal.
Women are subjected to discrimination and violence within the household, at the
workplace and in the society. Their inferior status can be traced to the patriarchal
values entrenched in the society which keep women subjugated, assigns them a
subordinate and dependent role, and, prevents them from accessing power and
resources. Men hold the power and resource within families and control any property
and family income. Women are considered as men's property, their sexual activity,
income and labor being systemically controlled by the men in their family. Social
expectations still pivot around child rearing and household management. The practice
of Purda (seclusion), although changing, is still socially valued. Social norms,
education, employment and legal rights and gender inequality in Bangladesh are all
perpetuated by patriarchy. From their childhood, women are forced to live in a
culture, which tolerates and even permits inhuman treatment to them.
And here is what the World Organisation Against Torture had to say about Morocco in 2003:
Nevertheless, domestic and sexual violence still continue to be regarded
as a private sphere phenomenon which does not constitute a human rights
violation or a veritable social problem that merits investigation, research
and analysis.35 As has been described above, the low status of women in
society as well as the actual state of gender relations make it difficult to
collect data and information on the prevalence, forms and manifestations
of violence against women, its causes and consequences. Violence against
women continues to be surrounded by a culture of silence. Furthermore, as
many laws in Morocco discriminate against women, it is hard to distinguish
which type of discrimination is legal and which is a crime.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Wow. Women abused and oppressed in 3rd world countries. Who would've thought?
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Adrian II
You are quite right. And there are very few comparative studies of the phenomenon. Too few to underpin the claim that violence against women is more prevalent in predominantly Islamic countries.
Nonetheless there are two aspects that set Islam apart.
The first is that violence against women is either legal or condoned by law in Islamist dictatorships such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and Pakistan. Of all the countries that have enacted laws against violence against women, only one or two (I believe Bangladesh and Malaysia) are predominantly Muslim.
The other aspect is that Islam has a universalist outlook and Islamism by nature has a universal claim to power and world dominance. "We" in the West don't care much that five women are burned every day in Hindu India because their families couldn't or wouldn't cough up their dowries. But we do care when similar violence is perpetrated in the name of Islam, because Islam is constantly held up by Muslim preachers as a superior way of life for all mankind. We feel both mocked and threatened by it, whereas we don't feel mocked and threatened by similar violence perpetrated in other cultures.
Your thoughts please, dear Dâriûsh. You and I may have fallen out in the past sometimes, but never in a spiteful way, and you were sorely missed by all in this forum. Good to "have you back".
Have we ever fallen out, my friend? I think not. ~:cool: Anyway, I think that there are so few comparative studies because many do (unfortunately) not really care about women's rights.
I doubt anyone would deny that the three kooky states are terrible places to live for women and I wonder if there is a study somewhere of this phenomenon for the wider Muslim world. I recall a study in Tunisia where the vast majority saw violence against women as socially unacceptable. Likewise, I saw a study once, from Iran, and the number of women subjected to abuse from their husbands was truly shockingly high. One in fourth or more I believe. Forced and arranged marriage was speculated to be the root of it, combined with many other factors. Throughout the Middle East there is a tendency amongst men to consider it okay to subject ones wife to abuse over even trivial matters.
Muslim scholars argue about the gender issue, and, as so many other issues in Islam, it is the subject of interpretation by individual kooks. Like the Australian Imam who said something akin to immodestly dressed women are themselves at fault for being raped, Saudi police who let schoolgirls burn to death, or the Islamic feminists or modernists who argue that Islam is progressive when it comes to women’s rights.
But even Fatwas™ and other rulings from open-minded (:dizzy2:) religious authorities have a hard time getting through the centuries old patriarchal barriers, even on national levels (Iran, Afghanistan). But the same goes with secular laws in many non-Muslim countries, I guess, where women are also abused. It is worth noting that honour killings are punishable according to Sharia Law (Not that Sharia Law is in any good, when it comes to women’s rights, as it is Sharia, by one interpretation, that allows a man to strike his wife).
Nazanin, the female author of my quote, was condemned to death In Mullahland for killing a would-be rapist (She was released in 2007). And the age of eligibility for death penalty for girls in Mullahland is nine. Nine!
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Throughout the Middle East there is a tendency amongst men to consider it okay to subject ones wife to abuse over even trivial matters.
This is also true of southern Europe, especially the Med.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InsaneApache
So you are agreeing that your thoughts, guided by your ideology, are wrong?
Who's thoughts? HoreTore or I?
Edit: Nevermind.
-
Re : Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Adrian II
Now, you know very well that most women need a kick in the :daisy: - literally or figuratively - before they realise that you truly, deeply love them. And I don't mean a black eye or a beating or anything cruel at all, but a reality check. True or not?
Hey, there's a reason why so many Northern women dream of passionate, hotblooded Mediterranean men. :yes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apache
Quote:
Throughout the Middle East there is a tendency amongst men to consider it okay to subject ones wife to abuse over even trivial matters.
This is also true of southern Europe, especially the Med.
Hey, there's a reason why so many Mediterranen women dream of compassionate, respectful Northern men. :yes:
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InsaneApache
I wish I had his cajones.
That's not possible, you're a Brit!!!:laugh4:
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Adrian , you have gone off on some strange tangent that only you can percieve .
-
Re: Re : Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Louis VI the Fat
Hey, there's a reason why so many Northern women dream of passionate, hotblooded Mediterranean men. :yes:
Hey, there's a reason why so many Mediterranen women dream of compassionate, respectful Northern men. :yes:
So much truth in two so similar sentences, I will probably dream of you tonight, Louis. :heart:
-
Re: Re : Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Louis VI the Fat
Oh, must not forget my usual statement: Fragony has got more brains than the entire European left combined. (No sarcasm.)
Oh hihihihi you make me blush :cheerleader:
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dâriûsh
As easy as it would be to point out that one wrong does not justify another, thats not really what this is about. How does each culture deal with domestic violence against women? In the West, the system does all it can to discourage it through laws and societal standards. We have stringent domestic abuse laws, public service announcements, and after school specials. Most importantly, from a very young age boys are taught that it is wrong to hit a girl - ever, both at home and school. On the other hand, the muslim system supports subjugation of women. Whether its in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia, the legal framework does very little and more often nothing to offer any help to abuse victims. Even more important, just like in the West, the social system, dominated by islam, supports an abusive male-female relationship. It doesn't take a sociologist to see the vast discrepancies between men and women in the Middle East, and how the social system supports the often violent suppression of women.
Your and tribesman's attempts to whitewash this issue in the usual "we're all the same" language ignores the endemic support system for oppression within the Middle East found in the legal, religious, and social framework of every one of those nations to different degrees.
If I were to bring up the state executions of homosexuals in the Middle East, would you and tribesman then cite Matthew Shepherd as some sort of moral equivalent? :inquisitive:
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Wow. Women abused and oppressed in 3rd world countries. Who would've thought?
You didn't think so. You mentioned those two countries, saying that notions and practices of female abuse were totally different in each. Turns out they are not. Wrong again, HoreTore. That's 3:0 for Panzer, Fragony and me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Adrian , you have gone off on some strange tangent that only you can percieve .
Louis, for one, got my point. Which is that violence between spouses over material or trivial matters or to enforce the woman's compliance is abject. However, when it occurs in the name of love it is a sign of passion. That's what happens in The Quiet Man. Have you even looked at the clip you linked? Tsk tsk..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dâriûsh
Have we ever fallen out, my friend?
I seemed to remember we did, in one of those heated threads about Denmark and cartoons or something. But I am not sure and I don't think I want to remember. I always hated to think that you had left the Backroom because I and others had been (unwittingly) rude or offensive to you.
Anyway, Dâriûsh, would you agree that this 'culture clash' over women's rights (and all sorts of related issues) is also a clash of two universalisms, and that this gives it a sharper edge than other culture clashes?
There are also many psychological aspects to it. Louis touched on an important one, which is that the Right in western countries cares only about human and womens' rights when they are violated by Muslims. A related psychological aspect is that when western males appear concerned about Muslim womens' freedoms, Muslim males interpret this as a direct attack on their pride: "They want to take 'our' women away from us."
I am not asking whether you condone any such attitudes. I know of your humane views on many issues already. I want to know if I'm right that these hard-to-pinpoint psychological aspects are indeed involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerjaeger
Your and tribesman's attempts to whitewash this issue in the usual "we're all the same" language ignores the endemic support system for oppression within the Middle East found in the legal, religious, and social framework of every one of those nations to different degrees.
Not bad at all for a Fascist, PJ, not bad at all... :mellow:
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Adrian II
You didn't think so. You mentioned those two countries, saying that notions and practices of female abuse were totally different in each. Turns out they are not. Wrong again, HoreTore. That's 3:0 for Panzer, Fragony and me.
Talk about missing the point....
I'll talk to you again when you recover from your hangover ~;)
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
I didn't say anything. Imam respects the rules of brittish society, Frag happy.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoreTore
Talk about missing the point....
I have refuted each and every point you made in this thread. No need to talk any more, indeed.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Adrian II
I have refuted each and every point you made in this thread. No need to talk any more, indeed.
No, you haven't understood a single point I've made ~;)
We've been talking about two completely different things...
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fragony
I didn't say anything. Imam respects the rules of brittish society, Frag happy.
~:eek:
The words "Imam" and "Frag happy" in the same sentence? Praise be to Allah, miracles DO happen!
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
makaikhaan
~:eek:
The words "Imam" and "Frag happy" in the same sentence? Praise be to Allah, miracles DO happen!
Easy for me to say as Fragony but when I am not behind the keyboard it's just poor little old me Stardust Destiny.
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
bump...
Quote:
Police sniffer dogs will have to wear bootees when searching the homes of Muslims so as not to cause offence.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4276489.ece
:laugh4: Great, now Fido gets to wear docs. :laugh4:
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InsaneApache
Quote:
Originally Posted by IA's article
Ibrahim Mogra, one of Britain’s leading imams, said the measures were unnecessary: “In Islamic law the dog is not regarded as impure, only its saliva is. Most Islamic schools of law agree on that. If security measures require to send a dog into a house, then it has to be done. I think Acpo needs to consult better and more widely.
“I know in the Muslim community there is a hang-up against dogs, but this is cultural. Also, we know the British like dogs; we Muslims should do our bit to change our attitudes.”
I suspect that this is a good example of what Fragony is trying to articulate (when his red mist lifts) about well-meaning simpletons actually making things worse. This is rarely about most Muslims in society, but some people in society embarrassing them by trying to "help".
-
Re: Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do
lol beautiful, thanks but no thanks for homo-servus.
