Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do

[Adrian II]

Wow. Women abused and oppressed in 3rd world countries. Who would've thought?

You didn't think so. You mentioned those two countries, saying that notions and practices of female abuse were totally different in each. Turns out they are not. Wrong again, HoreTore. That's 3:0 for Panzer, Fragony and me.

Adrian , you have gone off on some strange tangent that only you can percieve .

Louis, for one, got my point. Which is that violence between spouses over material or trivial matters or to enforce the woman's compliance is abject. However, when it occurs in the name of love it is a sign of passion. That's what happens in The Quiet Man. Have you even looked at the clip you linked? Tsk tsk..

Have we ever fallen out, my friend?

I seemed to remember we did, in one of those heated threads about Denmark and cartoons or something. But I am not sure and I don't think I want to remember. I always hated to think that you had left the Backroom because I and others had been (unwittingly) rude or offensive to you.

Anyway, Dâriûsh, would you agree that this 'culture clash' over women's rights (and all sorts of related issues) is also a clash of two universalisms, and that this gives it a sharper edge than other culture clashes?

There are also many psychological aspects to it. Louis touched on an important one, which is that the Right in western countries cares only about human and womens' rights when they are violated by Muslims. A related psychological aspect is that when western males appear concerned about Muslim womens' freedoms, Muslim males interpret this as a direct attack on their pride: "They want to take 'our' women away from us."

I am not asking whether you condone any such attitudes. I know of your humane views on many issues already. I want to know if I'm right that these hard-to-pinpoint psychological aspects are indeed involved.

Your and tribesman's attempts to whitewash this issue in the usual "we're all the same" language ignores the endemic support system for oppression within the Middle East found in the legal, religious, and social framework of every one of those nations to different degrees.

Not bad at all for a Fascist, PJ, not bad at all...