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just wondering ... are they the same as RTW.exe or more like Alex.exe (lord of the rings mod has around 350 units using alex for example)
cause I would like to add more units with the eventual release :sweatdrop:
btw are we going to have an aquilifer unit? its definitely not the same without it... :shifty:
EB 1 has about that number if not more units in as well... But let's just say the model limit is such that we are hoping for some fancy stuff regarding officers.
As the unit limit itself hasn't been changed from RTW to M2TW, AFAIK, it's going to be even harder adding new units when EB2 is about done, since we purposefully left some unit slots unused.
IIRC RTW has 255 model slots while Alex has a lot more (lotr-tw has 334 models , that is only supported by alex for example) so I was wondering if M2TW is like RTW or like Alex :sweatdrop:
M2:TW has more models, but the same total unit limit. In EB1 the team got round the model limit by recycling models between various factions, so don't expect to see many new units. In fact, several EB1 units will not be included in EB2.
whats the point of restricting or hardcoding the number of slots available? besides bothering everyone else :wall:
I mean if they could with alex what the hell were they thinking when they went back to 255 unit slots :furious2:
Memory and performance issues, my guess
You aren't reading very closely, are you? # units limit is not the same as # models limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by ||Lz3||
Both in RTW as well as in M2TW the # units the engine can cope with = 500;
In RTW the # models the engine can cope with = 255 (AFAIK);
In M2TW the # models the engine can cope with = unkown?
So you are still limited to 500 units; but possibly [if the model limit in M2TW supports enough models] you can go wild on officers as those only take a model slot -- nothing else.
well then my question goes to unit moddels :sweatdrop:
what's whit the hardcoding of that?:huh2:
AFAIK, the memory consumption of the game is based on the Unit limit, not on how many units there are in the game. So, if a mod uses only eg. 150 units out of it's total unit capacity of 512, it still would drain same amount off resources even if it used all 512 of the slots. Now, vanilla M2TW doesn't use too much of it's unit space, not nearly all of the 512 at least, so upping it to 1024 (which would be the next logical step I think moving from 2^9 to 2^10) would double the memory consumption, with not giving any benefit to the vanilla. Well, that's what I think is the case, anyone that knows better is free to correct (and mock) me.
Well, that's the reason and explanation. Unfortunately doesn't change the fact that hardcoding it sucks.
Well, 512 units are quite a lot too, even though we greedy EB fans always want more.
Hardcoding is truly the scourge of mankind!
is there any way to go around the limit, possibly create a new exe. or something...?
Nope, because that would be illegal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majd il-Romani
Foot
um then it's possible...::thinking:Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by ||Lz3||
don't do it-it isn't a wise thing to do.unless you want to build a whole new game from scratch, since the files are to my knowlege, to be used only for the exe's that CA made (RTW, BI, and Alex).:shame:
correct me If i be mistaken..
Um, no, because if we did do it we would get a cease and desist and that would be the end of EB.Quote:
Originally Posted by ||Lz3||
Foot
If you meant: is it possible to create an .exe from scratch yourself and use the EB files as sources for the game-content? Then yes. AFAIK there isn't anything in the license which explicitly binds the content-files to the applications used. So if you go ahead an write your game from scratch (AI, physics engine, graphics rendering, sounds engine...) -- happy coding!
All the RTW/M2TW hardcoded limits will then [logically] be replaced with your own. :shrug:
Heh heh, you guys are funny. I think I understand most of what everyone is saying, but Puupertti Ruma just totally confused me beyond comprehension. Whatever the case may be, I'm going to ask a yes or no question: Is it possible to have a larger number of units in EB2, excluding officers?
:yes:
No, the number of units has not been expanded. 500 was limit and still is. Of particular note is that EBI only had about 460 units. So there will be more units in EBII.
Foot
That's all I heard, and that's all I care to hear. Awesome, thx Foot!Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
:wacko:
they took the 460 number for EB 1 from the burial of scholars by the first empreror....:clown:
yes, he buried 460.
*BUT* Qin will not be included on the map.
Awesome book btw.
if you create an exe that means you are creating a new game.
AFAIK, a good programmer can build only a game engine like RTW in more than one year.
if you copy a game engine (exe) and change its coding and publish it. You violate copyrights. that is illegal.
so if you are alone you can build a game working totally like RTW, you should spend at least 6 years!
unless you are a super expert of programming, composing, editing, modelling... and like monastaric life
:laugh4:
I had coded MTW(First) in one week to create a cabinet that I had more than 20 officers, one prime minister,10 ministers, and of course a generalissimo and other martial officers.
that means that I had lots of free times when I was in college :laugh4:
There are quite a few free-of-charge engines out there. Problem is that getting used to one so as to be able to max it out... it may require as much time as writing a basic one yourself?
Not to mention that different engines may require more/less/different content files & formats.
Yep, the only (albeit likely unrealistic) way to change mtw2.exe to better suit EB I can think of would be to somehow magically acquire written consent of CA...
Might as well make them a wishlist / order what exactly we want their .exe to do and have them do the coding ^^
Unless the project somehow gets rich overnight and buys the copyright on m2tw.
--- On the other hand - CA already know you guys (in a positive way as it appears from here) and as long as legally purchasing the game in a shop is still a pre-requisite for running EB, would CA not actually have an interest in somehow providing the EB team with the means to do just that - pimp the m2tw.exe? I'm thinking of something like a patch that would be distributed via THEIR website and ONLY with a valid cd-key or something like that...
There have been precedences of this sort of thing - iirc ID Software actually makes "old" game engines open-source (Quake 1-3). Correct me if I got it backwards, but was an attempt made to send a diplomat to CA? Do you (the team) consider this to have any potential chances of success? Or am I just being a dumb n00b here? :)
It would simply be impossible. We have coders, we don't have programmers on the team. And while ID may make Quake 1-III open source, they are old games that no-one buys anymore, MTWII isn't even cold yet and they certainly wouldn't sell off the rights to the engine like that. As soon as they make it open source they can't make any money from it, and they are still making money from it.
Foot
Well we do have (a) programmer(s), but we he/they are busy doing other fancy stuff (or suffer from RL, that can happen too...) .
Whats the problem if you dont make the exe into a NOCD? I mean the only logical illegality is the NOCD alteration of the exe...
What's the difference between the program with a no CD crack (incidentally, not illegal everywhere) and without?
I believe he means what the problem would be if you altered the exe, but in such a way that the CD is still required to play.
Don't know if this is possible, but that's not the point. Altering an .exe is illegal.
If there no such legislation in the country that its made its not illegal...besides its all technicalities...EB1 is illegal on paper and its clearly in EULA...so lets talk reality...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hax
No, it's not. The EB team merely changes the data files, without overriding the .exe, and subsequently distributes the data files over the internet. Even though you can download EB, you'd still need RTW to be able to play it, so EB violates no rules here.Quote:
If there no such legislation in the country that its made its not illegal...besides its all technicalities...EB1 is illegal on paper and its clearly in EULA...so lets talk reality...
I don't know where CA is located (I believe England), and I am an unsure on the rules there, but the license agreement still states that the altering of .exe files is illegal, and EB does not do that. They do not state that the altering of the data files is illegal, otherwise EB (and a whole lot of other mods) would have gotten a cease-and-desist by now.Quote:
If there no such legislation in the country that its made its not illegal
However all copyright for what we do belongs to CA or Sega, or whoever.
Foot
Whether or not EB is illegal, it's extremely unlikely that SEGA will sue. However, if you start to alter their core engine, they may well decide to take legal action.
Also, even in the unlikely case that SEGA/CA would give EB permission to alter and distribute RTW.exe, it still wouldn't be easy to improve on it. First EB needs to recruit a team of skilled programmers, then these would need to figure out how the .exe works, and then they would have to think of a way to improve it. And I doubt any improvements can be made without substantially redesigning it, which would take months. It might actually be easier to create an all new game.
Read your manual of RTW:
"License conditions:
You shall not
Clause 7: Reverse engineer, derive source code, MODIFY, DECOMPILE (unpacker?), DISASSEMBLE, OR CREATE DERIVATIVE WORKS of this program IN WHOLE OR PART. "
So EB and any mod is under TOLERANCE of CA and as result SEGA.....THUS legally they can easily SUE....
So as along as one doesnt hit them on their wound (piracy exe cr**cking etc) and doesnt lose them potential cash they would tolerate an exe alteration...
Read it again.
Quote:
program in whole or part
Funny thing is, exe alterations are cracks.Quote:
So as along as one doesnt hit them on their wound (piracy exe cr**cking etc) and doesnt lose them potential cash they would tolerate an exe alteration...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hax
Agreed, but I believe hellenes' point was that such a crack, if not of malign intent or effect as in "you still can't use it to play if you don't buy the original RTW-game from CA/SEGA" could possibly be tolerated.
My personal opinion on this is - I doubt they would be happy about it and might indeed make it a "cease and desist". There's this beautiful quotation on one of the EB load-screens "Tolerate one infraction and you encourage many to follow it" or something like that fitting to this.
Unless of course it were done after they actually give their consent. Which would require that someone who can speak for EB would ask them, but Foot and Ludens both said that there are not enough programmers on the EB team for this kind of thing anyway...
Feels a bit like running in "argumentative circles" here.:tredmil:
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.Quote:
Agreed, but I believe hellenes' point was that such a crack, if not of malign intent or effect as in "you still can't use it to play if you don't buy the original RTW-game from CA/SEGA" could possibly be tolerated.
Any way to MODIFY ( a MOD!!!) part or whole....thats NOT just the exe...ANY PART...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hax
So Activision (and SEGA for M2TWK) CAN SUE....
Exe alterations are cracks if they CIRCUMVENT THE COPY PORTECTION.....as a NOCD....
Its all up to SEGA's tolerance...thus its up to them and not us discussing such matters here...
1) Dude, there's this button called Caps Lock. Try pressing it now and then.
2) You didn't read what I stated. The program, not the data files. From Wikipedia:
Quote:
Computer programs (also software programs, or just programs) are instructions for a computer. A computer requires programs to function. Moreover, a computer program does not run unless its instructions are executed by a central processor; however, a program may communicate an algorithm to people without running. Computer programs are usually executable programs or the source codefrom which executable programs are derived (e.g., compilded).
Yeah, we're talking about the source code here and executable programs here, not the data files (which are nothing more than the stuff that is being read by the source code.
The whole point is moot because its very doubtful they would tolerate an alteration of the exe in the first place.
So we should bank on that (silly, IMO) assumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nachtmeister
Edit- I think SEGA/CA doesn't want people mucking around in their code and figuring anything out about it. It's a trade secret after all.
My point was not that (if I got the phrase "bank on that ... assumption" right) we should "bank on" anything - the point was that there is no point...:dizzy2:Quote:
Originally Posted by lobf
Unless someone representing the EB team talks to whoever has the legal rights to Me2TW this discussion has no basis and as the EB team would apparently have no use even for explicit permission to alter the .exe as there are not enough people available to do the altering, there is no point in sending someone to ask either...
But you are probably right about the likely result of a proposition to SEGA/CA anyway. Perhaps possible in a few years when "Space Total War - Part IV" is their new bestseller, but not while the engine is still something unique and their mainstay Goldesel.
Exactly. Especially considering that M2TW apparently uses the same code as RTW. We won't likely see that kind of permission in the next decade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nachtmeister
Yep... *mourn*Quote:
Originally Posted by lobf
I don't know how long it took for id to give their Quake engines away (afaik QI-III are open source now) but if they actually are using the basic design of BI for Me2TW it might take longer - and that's only if SEGA has a similarly benevolent "ideology"...
i think people are overlooking the fact that CA/SEGA are very supportive of people modding TW games...
Hello World
I do not believe to be sure I understood well.
In MTW2 can bring unity to 240 men by changing the number in export_units from 60 to 75?
Whereas in RTW is not possible in any way increase the number over 240 units?
Someone could clarify a little?
Thanks hello
I believe the Kingdoms limit is 250.