Meh Elitism
I consider this man a bigot.
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Meh Elitism
I consider this man a bigot.
It's not elitism - the man is simply not sufficiently well-read. :beam:
We call a person like that a plank as in thick as two short planks. US is a vast melting pot of differing culture how can he seriously believe there are no good US writers.
He is taking the last few years of no nobel prizes for american writers and proclaiming that this proves americans cant write good books. If someone wins next year does that mean the entire culture of US changed overnight cos of him.
I think he should be burned at the stake using every Tom Clancy novel ever published :idea2:
Absolute rubbish America is packed with great writers.
Perhaps the thread title should be changed from "Europeans say..." to (clueless) "European says"
What an ignorant fool - such a statement puts a stain on the prize as such :no:
The correct title would be "Europeans say Americans cant write well"´:smug:
I see that you have gotten aquainted with Horace Engdahl. ~;p
(I took the liberty of making the topic title more specific, while trying to retain SFTS' ironic intent. ~Kukri)
Bigot? Maybe. More likely though, he's so busy poring through the stuff he's given to judge that he has little time for recreational reading, so misses some real gems out there - including American ones.
"can't"Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironside
"acquainted"
:sweatdrop:
No , the correct title would be " a Swedish bloke talking bollox"Quote:
The correct title would be "Europeans say Americans cant write well"´
Colour, honour.....
And anyway, this just proves how superior we norwegians are to the barbaric swedes. I say we loot and enslave them, I need some new furniture when I'm moving to a new apartment...
That's what you get when being a smartass while being to tired to spell correctly. ~;pQuote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Cant was from STFS though.
If I understood him correctly (with this interview and a correction he made) it's more of an observation on why the Noble Price has ended up mostly in Europe or to writers connected to Europe in the last years. And yes he's very elitistic and arrogant.Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
Edit: Horetore, the Peace prize commitée. Need I say more?
I think it is obvious Americans are ethnically inferior at writing.
Indeed; it's a complex. At the very least, I know my recurring nightmare of Dickens and Dumas laughing in my face cause *me* to wake up screaming....Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr
My dear friends, I must warn you, since at least two of you got it wrong, Doris Lessing is a woman!
Meh, too many Europeans let themselves be blinded by American popular culture. And hence overlook that there is genuine quality and sophistication in American literature, culture, the arts and public debate.
Making this up as I'm writing, could it be that the worst of American culture is globally exported and consumed, while from smaller countries only the best of its culture is exported? If you think Houellebecq, Édith Piaf, Amélie Poulain and Derrida are representative of French culture, you're in for a shock.
From France, this is what is exported, and not Tecktonik. While from America, for every Springsteen ten Snoop Doggy Dogs cross the ocean.
However, Engdahl is right on several accounts:
American literature really is too sensitive to trends. Engdahl didn't need to add 'to trends of American mass culture'. The constant urge to cater to trends of American High culture is as tiresome and uncreative.
American readers are too reluctant to read translated work. (And to see dubbed or subtitled movies) :smash:
The picture is of Dorris Lessing. But the quotes are from Horace Engdahl, a man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
This proves the Frecnh caint read no good and
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaelic Cowboy
A man of drastic measures is a man of my liking. :sweatdrop:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaelic Cowboy, yesterday
There is, undeniably, a bit or irony in that post... :beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy
What irony? He's proposing burning Engdahl with the works of the greatest American author who isn't dead or past the age of seventy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking
:sneaky:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
:wall: today's lesson: when coming back from a hard day's work, first have tea and then, post.
From the article
I can't say he is wrong...Quote:
Speaking generally about American literature, however, he said U.S. writers are "too sensitive to trends in their own mass culture," dragging down the quality of their work.
"The U.S. is too isolated, too insular.
Note that he also said:I guess his point is that there of course are quaklity litterature written in the US, BUT you could be better if you had a broader perspective.Quote:
Of course there is powerful literature in all big cultures
:sweden:
I can only hope that was intentional :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
Oh, yeah. I often use to burn books of my favourite author when it gets cold in the winter; that's the ultimate respect I can show him. :beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
Edit: oops, would appear others have already made a couple of grammatical points.
I cannot disagree with the judge, we are overly insular. The French, who have their own literature and their own movies and television, know far more of American culture than we of theirs. Heck, they probably know more of our culture than we do of our own.
Seriously, even European blockbuster films, like "My Life as a Dog", "Faraway, So Close" "The Girl on the Bridge" and "La Reine Margot" are relatively obscure arthouse films over here.
But I also think that in some ways, being insular might improve your literature, as you'd be more focused and sharper on constructs that play to your own culture well such as wit, humor and sarcasm, which don't translate well.
And I also believe the judge only said it to be a elitist git.
Oh, no. Really they don't, most frenchies are amazed there is such a thing as a world beyond France. They are probably more american then the americans stereotype-technically speaking. Americans shouldn't be so insecure about all that, it's quite telling that all the top universities are in the US. The constant bickering or outright battles between scholars in magazines, not here. We made all that up, America is the intellectual battlefield :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
edit, you might want to keep an eye on us cloggies, we are better in english then the english hehe
You overlooked theQuote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
right in front of what you quoted. ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
In a world of terrorism, hijackings, hurricanes, foreign policy debacles and collapsing economies...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
there stands, alone, one foreigner unapologetically in complete awe of all things Status Quoian American.
That man is Fragony.
Yep. I consider America to be the hight of civilization. Such a huge country with so little internal turmoil, and the most gentle superpower that ever was. It has the right idea and the right spirit, if you want to feel bad about yourselve ask why a black man can actually run for president. Do you really think that would be possible in an european country? You would be way off if you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koga No Goshi
Oh, and kill them, build dikes, carry on, you'll be fine.
Fragony, nope, it was an error...
However, I speak 3 languages fluidly and I can bluff me through 3 more...
How many languages do you speak? English is in fact my third language, I am more fluid in german and swedish.
Before you judge peoples spelling, make sure it doesnt make you look stupid. Fair enough?
Husar, my fingers are sometimes to big for the keyboard:)
What is the point of pointing out spelling errors anyway?
Or, do you claim that my argument is less valid cause my English is not perfect? If so, I invite you to further the conversation in a language I am more fluid in... Det borde väl inte vara några problem, eller hur?
:gah:
On the macro level, if you think America has done a great job in the world, and could have been a hell of a lot worse, that's your perogative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
In most other regards, though, I think someone who doesn't live here, doesn't worry that a sudden illness is going to absolutely wreck a lifetime of "responsibility" and "saving", doesn't worry that their kid will wind up in a horrible, ghetto public school if they can't afford an expensive, nice-enough house in an expensive, nice-enough neighborhood, and basically just doesn't have the experience of life in America as an American, having nothing but wholehearted admiration for all things America does and opposes change or criticism of anything America does, is engaging in idle fanboyism in important issues issues (to us) when, as others have stated, you have no real skin in the game.
Completely off topic. My apologies to OP.
ChinaQuote:
Originally Posted by Koga No Goshi
India
USA
Indonesia
Brazil
These countries are the top 5 in something:beam:
Didn't mean any harm, sorry if it appeared that way. That really wasn't my intention.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
@Koga No Goshi
It is no different here. Are you starving? Many are, these people that don't live 'here'. I find it quite distastefull to consider our problems to be problems. It's like searching for the highest building you can find and demanding another floor.
Ah, but then, that man is Europe's greatest philosopher. Fragony is quite correct about both America and France in this thread. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Koga No Goshi
Me I always make sure to down two bottles of wine before posting here. :barrel:Quote:
Originally Posted by TristusKhan
In response (not defense) I would say not every piece of published work is intended to contend for the Nobel Prize in literature. I would add that most writers are looking to fill their pockets with cash and “trends in our own mass culture” are popular and lucrative to write about. I have heard of many writers who sling keys for a living having to take time off to write their novel. Trendy, pop culture sells and most of us have pills to pay. :beam:Quote:
From the article: ...he said U.S. writers are "too sensitive to trends in their own mass culture," dragging down the quality of their work.
I have also noticed that guys with butch, feminist wives don’t have much control at home and often belittle people at work to make themselves feel important. BTW did I mention that Horace has a butch, feminist wife?
Fragony, fair enough:)
:focus:
This may just be my perspective... But I think this is what the article is about.
If a swede writes a book about, say, the end of the world... It might very well be a swede as the main character, however, the setting wouldnt take place only in Sweden, the character would travel the world in his pursuit.
In american litterature, the setting will most of the time take place in the US, and the US alone.
Now, this example is extremly general, and counter-claims can be made from both points.
But, as a rule, american litterature is very centered around the US, where European litterature is more international.
Am I wrong?
Eventhough I do not agree with you, I feel an urge to applaud your post...Quote:
Originally Posted by yesdachi
*and the thing about his butch feminist wife is oh so true, I had to endure a 3 hour seminar with her at university.... Afterwards I was unsure if I should cut off my balls or just shoot her*
America is a very very very large country. With about 30 times the population of Sweden. There is a reason we seem so insular. We are trying to find out as much as we can about our other countrymen first!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
It is huge, I don't know if you have ever been there but I can't really blame americans for being america-minded, it takes me 2 hours to travel from the south of the netherlands to the north, how can you compare that? International is our reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
I'd also interject that to me, Europeans seem to want to have their cake and eat it too. You formed the European Union, claiming you're one united people. Then you claim you're international because you travel from Geneva to Munich. 450KM!!! You can do that and not even leave the state in several U.S. states.
All of that being said, I think America's awareness of the rest of the world is growing. It just takes time.
Fragony, I've been to the US two times:)
I now it is huge... But that does not explain why "the end of the world" and "the end of the US" is the same thing in much of the literature.
Don Corleone, first of all, the cultural difference is huge within Europa... I am not saying you dont have cultural difference in US too, heck, I have been to New York and then Mississippi... Still, there was the same language, same food chains, same TV-shows and so on...
Geographical distance and cultural distance is not the same thing... you know...
And as a sidenote, who said European literature is bound to Europe only? Africa, Asia and so on hasa huge impact on our literature.
Maybe, but that has nothing to do with the quality of your litterature. US has way much better storytellers than today's France, and that's all that matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
There is a huge difference in the culture of the 2 cities Ive lived in and there in the same state! I even made a thread about it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
But that was based on food and not literature. ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Good sir at the end of the day is there a difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by yesdachi
My padawan has completed his education.Quote:
Originally Posted by yesdachiBut that was based on food and not literature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
I can teach him no more. http://matousmileys.free.fr/tr12.gif
I shall now leave this forum and die a happy man.
It's death to the idea of a new start I think. America is child of our sick history and a really succesful one, in a way it is world of it's own, even when it isn't I don't blame people for liking the idea. It isn't even an idea I think it is very much real, see Obama.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
Well, from the looks of him the problem is plain to see...
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...y84/horace.jpg
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I think what Fragony was pointing out is that looks more like a play on words then a spelling mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
It looks like the word literature combined with litter.
Which aptly describes most of the backroom IMDHO. :2thumbsup::laugh4:
A montage to SFTS and LouieQuote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
Well for comparison everyone is moaning that the new road "improvements" mean that it can take 2 hours to drive from Tuam to Galway , but hey thats Ireland and we don't do much of that literature thing in a Nobel sense :2thumbsup:Quote:
it takes me 2 hours to travel from the south of the netherlands to the north, how can you compare that?
But you gave us a ripped off version of Dracula that changed the world. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Make that imbecile. And definitely.Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
Buy the way, Horace who?
I think it's about :daisy: time that this bunch of :daisy: conceited :daisy: grant their useless, overblown prize to Philip Roth before they dig their own mass grave, jump into it and politely ask the rest of the reading world to bury them alive and forget this bunch of morons ever existed. And that's putting it diplomatically.
But, but that would break the rule of giving the Nobel Price to a writer none heard of, written books none red and coming from the middle of nowhere. :smash:Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
What about them? The last one went to a yank! :beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironside
:france: France wins Again! :france:
Jean-Marie Gustave Le Clézio: author of new departures, poetic adventure and sensual ecstasy, explorer of a humanity beyond and below the reigning civilization.
French sophistication and refinement beats American pulp again! :knight:
I take back everything I said about the Nobel comittee in this thread and I applaud them for their literary insight and as your literary overlords we promise to rule firm but just and blahblah.
He looks as though he sat on something wet and warm. :book:
He has astoundingly dark hair for a 68-year old. It must be that French diet. :)
I read he did a short stint in the US as a teacher in the 60's. I wonder where?
-edit-
LOL, Louis
-edit 2-
Found it here
Is UT-Austin where our STFS attends? If so, the irony literally drips.Quote:
Le procès-verbal was soon translated into several languages, among others into Finnish. In spite of his international fame, Le Clézio chose to stay away from fashionable literary circles, saying in an article in 1965: "Not yet sure if writing is a good way of expression." He taught at a Buddhist University in Thailand in 1966-67, at the University of Mexico, and at the Boston University, University of Texas, Austin, and the University of New Mexico, Albuquerque. Since 1973 Le Clézio has divided his life between France, the U.S. and Mauritius. He has also traveled in Nigeria and Japan and published translations of Mayan sacred texts.
https://img79.imageshack.us/img79/2738/tulg7.jpg
I go to Texas Tech. Highest rate of STDs, Teen Pregnancies, Dropouts, Drunkards and white trash in the state. Im in the right place:2thumbsup:
You should write a book about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
P.S. Jean-Marie who? :coffeenews:
I should. Then I can be like my Dutch hero!Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
Not only did a Frenchman win the Nobel prize, but a Frenchman who lives right across the Rio Grande from the U.S.:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Nobel prize winner.
The one who stuck his finger in a dyke? :beatnik2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
hehehehehheeheheheheheQuote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II