The Unofficial "little things we want in EB2" topic

OK we know that the guys on the EB2 team are working their arses off so we can get the best mod in the histry of mods (until EB3 comes out) and they can't be bthered with the little tiny things that we want, so while theyre working on the big things like units and map, we'll have a comprehensive list of all the little things they can put in when they actually get the mod started. Any suggestions?

EDIT: So here's the list. I'll update periodically PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

-stratmap and General (prebattle) Speech in original language
-different armies march differently and make different sounds when marching (like chainmail will jingle, barefooted soldiers will occasionally say ouch cause they stepped on something, etc)
-cheaper levies
-language traits for agents and FM's so you can get more info on the language your faction speaks, and they can learn more languages too
-something that gives the info about a city and its outlying region, maybe you get a message that tells about it once youve conquered it
-building cards have their own artwork on them instead of using the Vanilla M2 ones

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Originally Posted by Majd il-Romani

OK we know that the guys on the EB2 team are working their arses off so we can get the best mod in the histry of mods (until EB3 comes out) and they can't be bthered with the little tiny things that we want, so while theyre working on the big things like units and map, we'll have a comprehensive list of all the little things they can put in when they actually get the mod started. Any suggestions?

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that they have stratmap voices in the native languages:clown:

(but yeah, It completes the projected image)

I hope they can edit the sounds of romans marching. Becouse of the decorated leather strips hanging down from their belt. They made very much sound so that the enemy should feel overwhelmed when tousands of romans marched forvard.

And I think they should have a foacale scarf to

I think someone is mis-using the word "official". Unless a good reason can be put forward for why such a perception should be allowed I'll change it to "Unofficial" in the title.

EDIT: Just saw your post in the "New Factions" thread. I think I'll beat the rush and change it any way.

NOTE TO ALL: This thread is not official, but please do post suggestions, eureka moments can come from anywhere.

Foot

I think the Roman legionaries (post marian) should have undyed tunics and no tassels on their helmet. Instead they can have a small bronze loop on their helm.

Okay, see thats not really a suggestion that works without some evidence to back it up. Saying that it would be a good idea if the noise of a roman's uniform were added to their marching sound effects is a suitable, but requesting that post-marian romans should never have tassles on their helmet or have coloured tunics without depicting evidence to support your claim is going to get your post ignored.

Foot

you're so bloody harsh i find foot, lol. :clown:

What I'd like to see is cheaper levies for celtic factions. to my understanding levies were just farmers and such pushed into service with little training and sub-par equipment.

Right now I think the cost of upkeep is fine. but the cost to produce some of them a bit too high.

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Originally Posted by Foot

Okay, see thats not really a suggestion that works without some evidence to back it up. Saying that it would be a good idea if the noise of a roman's uniform were added to their marching sound effects is a suitable, but requesting that post-marian romans should never have tassles on their helmet or have coloured tunics without depicting evidence to support your claim is going to get your post ignored.

Foot

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So you liked my suggestion? :jumping:

Language traits. I think it would be nice to be able to find out about the languages of antiquity whilst playing EB, even if only diplomats get them. (They might already, maybe I haven't noticed. If this is the case then more traits; so I notice them :smash::clown:.)

Some mechanism to give me a blurb on each of the regions and cities, what they grew, what ethnicity the people were, the main geographical features, even if its only conjectured (there's wasn't exactly a Bureau of Statistics at the time), would be nice. I can't think of anything elegant that would deliver the information on demand, without being resource consuming, but I hear M2TW has a lot of opportunities.

Just my two cents.

What the fuck is wrong with you people? The "sound of Romans marching"? What, do the feet of other armies make different sounds?

We spend hours picking our way through journals and musty books with the hope that we'll make something truly miraculous; something greater than us; something that can educate people about an oft neglected period of history. And you want the sound of Romans marching?

You know what, I'll just stop now before I say something worse.

The thead is called little things we want in eb2. I am not saying it is important, but it is a very small thing that I just wanted you to have on your list. One of the last things to do.

Actually, the suggestion concerning marching sounds isn't so bad and it certainly brings attention to one of the weakest technical parts of MTW2 - sound. Sound is a powerful way of creating appropriate atmosphere. You can have great visuals, but if the audio part is weak, the atmosphere won't be that special. IMO many sound effects in MTW2 are terrible (much worse than those found in RTW) and it's one of those aspects that could be improved in EB2.

I don't want any "little things", I just want EB2 before my kids grow up.:yes:

Then it should be the sound of soldiers marching, not just Romans. I sincerely doubt that you would know the difference between a roman and a greek/Gaul/whatever, just on the sound of his feet.

my point is that roman legionaries had a different sound when marching

Chain mail can be loose and jingle too. And I didn't think they all had leather strips on their armour.

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Originally Posted by Pontius Pilate

I think the Roman legionaries (post marian) should have undyed tunics and no tassels on their helmet. Instead they can have a small bronze loop on their helm.

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theyre using the M2 engine, which means some tunics will be red, some blue, some white, and some helmets will have tassels, some not, some will be montefortino, some Imperial Gallic, and others Coolus. People have got to remember that its M2, not RTW. No more clones!

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Originally Posted by strategos alexandros

Chain mail can be loose and jingle too. And I didn't think they all had leather strips on their armour.

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The things hanging down from their belts made an unique sound

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Originally Posted by Majd il-Romani

theyre using the M2 engine, which means some tunics will be red, some blue, some white, and some helmets will have tassels, some not, some will be montefortino, some Imperial Gallic, and others Coolus. People have got to remember that its M2, not RTW. No more clones!

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Why should romans have different helmets and different colours in one unit? Thats just stupid

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Originally Posted by ludwag

Why should romans have different helmets and different colours in one unit? Thats just stupid

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because the EB2 team would have to add a whole new unit to have a different armor/helmet, so you would have "montefortino cohorts" and "Colus Cohorts." But maybe the different helmets could be armor upgrades...?

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Originally Posted by ludwag

The things hanging down from their belts made an unique sound

Why should romans have different helmets and different colours in one unit? Thats just stupid

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If you are going to insult someone please do back it up with some evidence. Do you believe that the romans recalled all armour when a new upgrade was added?

Foot

how many times have they upgraded their helmets in the timeframe of eb2? from montefortino to coolus thats one and I dont think that just some of them got the new ones, and someone stayed with the old ones becouse they got them for free. But since you know better than me I believe you. But my impression is that everyone weared the same equipment becouse the state payed for it. Maybe they was a little mixed in the period when it changed. But When they reqruited new cohorts why should they choose between different helmets?

About the sound from marching and the foacale scarfs I can get evidence, But I think you allready know. It was not meant to insult anyone in any way

You appear to be fixated on this state-funded armour as being intentionally uniform. Think of coins minted by a central bank. At any one time there would be in circulation any number of coins many with different styles. The belief that the roman government would have recalled all helmets or other pieces of armour when a new design was brought is a badly thought through proposition by any standards. Apart from the prohibitive cost of such an act the logistics of such a feat would be astounding. Rather, I imagine, each armoury would send back request orders to the central armoury and manufacturing centres to replace any lost or damaged incurred while a force was on campaign. These requests would be filled with whatever was available. The main armouries would then request replacements from the manufacturers to restock their central depots. As a manufacturers started making new designs for equipment these would slowly seep through the system, but it would have been the height of stupidity to completely replace an armoury's stock of helmets with a new design. A particularly rich or influential general raising a legion may well have been able to request uniform armour, but this would soon have changed while the legion was on campaign as damage and loss would mean that quartermaster's would have issued older equipment to the troops.

Foot

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Originally Posted by ludwag

how many times have they upgraded their helmets in the timeframe of eb2? from montefortino to coolus thats one and I dont think that just some of them got the new ones, and someone stayed with the old ones becouse they got them for free. But since you know better than me I believe you. But my impression is that everyone weared the same equipment becouse the state payed for it. Maybe they was a little mixed in the period when it changed. But When they reqruited new cohorts why should they choose between different helmets?

About the sound from marching and the foacale scarfs I can get evidence, But I think you allready know. It was not meant to insult anyone in any way

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Now what's this all about??? I don't think you need to apologize, the name of the thread is after all "little things we want in EB2". And you only made a suggestion, it's not like you were forcing any of your ideas on people in a harsh manner. I think my post was actually worst than yours. And I think some people overreacted a little bit. If everyone is going to get flamed for every little mistake or thing they say, maybe this thread should be closed? But then again feel free to ignore me, or flame me.

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Originally Posted by abou

What the fuck is wrong with you people? The "sound of Romans marching"? What, do the feet of other armies make different sounds?

We spend hours picking our way through journals and musty books with the hope that we'll make something truly miraculous; something greater than us; something that can educate people about an oft neglected period of history. And you want the sound of Romans marching?

You know what, I'll just stop now before I say something worse.

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Um, are you okay?? I think you may be treating that poster a little too harshly.

I would like to see at least a few women Generals and Family Members for the Celts. Boudica and her daughters were not the only women ruler-warriors. The Celticist Peter Berresford Ellis, has a few good books on this matter, best one on Celtic Society as a whole would be: The Celts: A History.

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Originally Posted by Pawl ap Hywel

I would like to see at least a few women Generals and Family Members for the Celts. Boudica and her daughters were not the only women ruler-warriors. The Celticist Peter Berresford Ellis, has a few good books on this matter, best one on Celtic Society as a whole would be: The Celts: A History.

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Impossible to do. We can have female portraits in the general pictures but we cannot assign them to those characters with female names nor could we assign traits based on the portrait (or name), nor could we change who they married to (they would have wives). So very, very impossible.

Foot

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Originally Posted by Pawl ap Hywel

I would like to see at least a few women Generals and Family Members for the Celts. Boudica and her daughters were not the only women ruler-warriors. The Celticist Peter Berresford Ellis, has a few good books on this matter, best one on Celtic Society as a whole would be: The Celts: A History.

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Nah, I don't think there were many women generals in the ancient world, sure they're a few exceptions, but those are a very rare cases. And it's been this way all throughout history. In ancient times a women's place was at home, to take care of the family, and it wasn't until the last century that this began to change. The man were the ones involved in fighting, war, politics. You have to remember that the ancient world was a man's world. Not a bad idea though, I admit it would bring more variety to the generals and family memebers, but it wouldn't be historically accurate. Oh yeah, and it is also impossible to create using the MTW2 engine, according to Foot and some other developers.

I would like to support this:

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- something that gives the info about a city and its outlying region, maybe you get a message that tells about it once youve conquered it

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although it doesn't have to be for every city. I'd be happy if there were markers for the most important cities, maybe in the form of unique buildings, just like the wonder descriptions of current EB?

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Originally Posted by Pontius Pilate

Um, are you okay?? I think you may be treating that poster a little too harshly.

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No, I'm not okay and if anything he isn't being treated harshly enough.

calm down abou, I've fixed the wording already, no need to get angry

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Originally Posted by Majd il-Romani

-different armies march differently and make different sounds when marching (like chainmail will jingle, barefooted soldiers will occasionally say ouch cause they stepped on something, etc)

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Do they? Do you honestly think you could tell what kind of army was marching when hundreds of feet, let alone thousands upon thousands, are stamping the ground? I mean, let alone the sheer vanity in asking for Roman marching and then switching it in some lame attempt to justify the request because of chain mail. News flash: the Romans at the start of our time frame didn't really use chain mail, and when the Romans were using chain several other militaries were simultaneously!

I never said anything about chainmail. I only think the romans should have a special sound becouse of the things under their belts. I read that they where making a special sound. I diddnt say that different units should march different, only the romans, so edit the first post (p.s. I think it was funny though)

On topic, I'd like to see some more traits. Traits are cool. And ancilliaries! They are also cool.

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Originally Posted by Cbvani

On topic, I'd like to see some more traits. Traits are cool. And ancilliaries! They are also cool.

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well, I doubt that will be of any help to the EB team... anything specific you have in mind? :idea2:

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Originally Posted by Cbvani

On topic, I'd like to see some more traits. Traits are cool. And ancilliaries! They are also cool.

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Is there a limit on the number of traits and ancillaries the game can have? Because otherwise, I would it for the EB team to just create another hundred or so, I really love reading the descriptions when I view my top generals.

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Originally Posted by abou

No, I'm not okay and if anything he isn't being treated harshly enough.

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Originally Posted by abou

Do they? Do you honestly think you could tell what kind of army was marching when hundreds of feet, let alone thousands upon thousands, are stamping the ground? I mean, let alone the sheer vanity in asking for Roman marching and then switching it in some lame attempt to justify the request because of chain mail. News flash: the Romans at the start of our time frame didn't really use chain mail, and when the Romans were using chain several other militaries were simultaneously!

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Sounds like someone has a case of the mondays. :clown:

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Originally Posted by ludwag

how many times have they upgraded their helmets in the timeframe of eb2? from montefortino to coolus thats one and I dont think that just some of them got the new ones, and someone stayed with the old ones becouse they got them for free. But since you know better than me I believe you. But my impression is that everyone weared the same equipment becouse the state payed for it. Maybe they was a little mixed in the period when it changed. But When they reqruited new cohorts why should they choose between different helmets?

About the sound from marching and the foacale scarfs I can get evidence, But I think you allready know. It was not meant to insult anyone in any way

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First of all a state paying for armour is an exception. The 'Roman state' paying for armour much more so: recruits were expected to somehow get themselves their battle gear. There does seem to have been a (later) practice of allowing wanna-be legionaries to buy equipment in advance, a loan that would be witheld from their pay as soldiers. This does, however, in no way mean all helmets must therefore have been equal or even as much as all loaned equipment should have been uniform.

Military equipment seems to have been particularly prone to fashions, little improvements and gazillions of other reasons why one generation may come up with as many different outfits as there were troops: it may be true that for soldier X he could just go with the old helmet model H1324 v1.2 of his dad, but perhaps soldier Y who could afford to buy his own kit might have preferred the new/upgraded version of model H1324 v1.2 and settled for the H1325a v1.0. And soldier Z who is from the other end of the peninsula and has a wholly different background chooses to go with H5689zx v2.3. See what I mean?

Not to mention people might very well have wanted to do/add some (shield) modifications here and there -- hey the Samnites' only club got their own little symbol; we from Arretium got a marker painted upside down. Just to be a little different, make it personal. Could be useful of course: remembering whose regiment was standing next to you could be made as easy as remembering the little weird things in their panoply.

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Originally Posted by Majd il-Romani

well, I doubt that will be of any help to the EB team... anything specific you have in mind? :idea2:

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No idea. I'm not one for historical research, you see. Maybe some more historical figures, like artists and things, with a bit of description. All that description is GREAT flavor!

Is there any way to make it so wonders get replaced (albeit with 100% damage) if the player or the AI loots them? So that they can be repaired or such, but for money. Do the bonuses of a wonder still apply if it is damaged? Its just that when I loot the temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus as the gauls nothing is REALLY stopping the Romans from rebuilding it if they retake the city.... except for money.

Ludwag, those 'things under their belts' are called pteruges, from the Greek word meaning feathers, and are not original or unique to Romans. Wikipedia can help you out here, as it is always good to sound like you know what you're talking about, even if you don't.

Many units in EB are depicted with pteruges, so if indeed there is a special sound (if?) then all those units should share it and not just the Romans.

Bigger question

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I read that they where making a special sound.

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Where did you read this? Post a source citation, not just a weird assertion. I have never heard anything of the kind, although I am not in fact an expert on the Ancient World. Still, I read a lot, and I have yet to come across this.

If there is going to be work done on incidental sounds during battles (and I don't think this should be a priority) then I would far rather hear the sound of sarissas being whirled around or the paean being raised by hoplites. And what's so scary about the sound of a leather skirt?

Unless by 'things under their belts' you meant something else? ;)

no. not pteruges. I know what that is. The centurions used that, but I mean the legionaries had four decorated leather straps down from their belt. They had a weigth at the bottom and they where dangling into eachother and made this sound.

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Balteus

edit: this is not important, but I just said I wanted it in EB in the first post

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Originally Posted by abou

What the fuck is wrong with you people? The "sound of Romans marching"? What, do the feet of other armies make different sounds?

We spend hours picking our way through journals and musty books with the hope that we'll make something truly miraculous; something greater than us; something that can educate people about an oft neglected period of history. And you want the sound of Romans marching?

You know what, I'll just stop now before I say something worse.

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So is this how you'd like us to start addressing anyone who asks what we perceive as a stupid question? Because last time I checked, mods specifically discouraged this kind of behavior. Glad to know that's over with.

I can see this going down hill really fast. I suggest that all parties involved take a moment and breathe. I'm closing this thread in the meantime. And lobf, don't get anatagonistic because you have an axe to grind.

Foot