The title says it all:dizzy2:
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The title says it all:dizzy2:
Honestly I dont see much need for improvement on EB. Of course there are some things that are annoying, but most of these things are hardcoded (like AI). There are two things that make me wonder though and which could be something I'd like to see improved:
1. I don't understand why the hording ability is unabled in vanilla EB. At least there should be a official fix for BI/Alex users.
2. I hope you guys don't get me wrong but I don't see a reason why the Saba have been included - in change for the Senate faction which made missions possible. The Saba are rarely played (from what I read on the board) and basically dont play a role when AI controlled...
These are the only things which come to my mind... but like I said: EB is really awesome and I wish I had more time to spend with this mod. ;)
1) Because there is no hording ability in RTW, and using the expansions are not supported.
2) What, you actually liked the braindead missions in vanilla RTW?
Ah, somebody is truly calling for submods...
Nobody forbids you guys to make a BI submod with hording and other expansion features... imho it would compliment nicely EB if done right.
And regarding the senate, it just needs a bit of love and LOTS, LOTS of work... http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=184343
I play Saba... And I prefer them above "senate" missions (alexander's tomb, etc...).
I wish I had hording ability though...
Actually I never played a version of EB which had missions *lol* :D
I only played Baktria in 0.8 and now in 1.1 missions have already been removed. I just thought the idea was quite nice? I might be wrong.
Anyway like I said... these two things came to my mind spontaniously... =)
Hording is ridiculously overpowered. If you've played BI, you know it
Luckily modders excel into that tricky art called game balance...
I know, I know. Just saying, it's still pretty cheap when you eliminate the Sarmatians and they spawn new guys.
^ The Senate missions were ridiculously stupid in vanilla RTW. And if they included a Senate faction, that would mean that the main Romani faction would have to relocate their capital, and with the high risk of the Senate faction rebelling and attacking them.
The senate can be easily tamed, it's just that very few people bothered doing it... Automatic missions can be slightly improved, just don't expect miracles...
yes, the senate missions in RTW vanilla were quite stupid indeed - why would I want to blockade Londinium when I have yet to secure the Italian Peninsula? but I do agree that the faction Saba should not have been included, there's no real point in having them other than to fill in the emptyness or vastness of Arabia.
Uh, since we are talking about hordeing...did no one try my minimod for that? I made one about 3 months ago...
Actually it does play an important role, game mechanics-wise. Before, often it was the case that Parthia would find itself in a large part of the Arabian peninsular as it was the only suitable (and it wasn't suitable) faction to have those provinces rebel to. We also felt that it was important to represent that important part of the world that played an important role in trade to and from India. Compared to the Alex Mission, the inclusion of Saba was a wise choice. There was no chance that the Senate as a faction would make an appearance, so I don't even understand why that choice is even being considered as an alternative to Saba.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontius Pilate
Foot
You could always get rid of unimportant factions like rome, parthia or armenia to make room for the mighty senate [/joke]
Seriously talking, all this is something that would concern a sub-mod, although making one of such scope for EB would be hard indeed
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
And think of the ppl who actually created all of Saba's units and descriptions.. By saying '' Saba shouldn't have been included '' you're actually saying '' your work is worthless'' .. Besides, it's always nice if you have a big Empire (like Imperium Romanum) and have some other factions outside your borders, so you've still got a kind of a challenge in defending those borders.
Last but not least, we don't want two exactly the same factions, do we? Variation is the best we can get, IMHO, and Saba has units that are totally different from any other in entire Europe (barbarorum :P)
At least, that's my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
I didn't say I want the senate to be included.
Ah, so the inclusion of the Alexander Mission is of far more import than a powerful faction from Southern Arabia with strong trade links to both Egypt and India. Just so I'm clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontius Pilate
Foot
thats a good point. I have never liked saba, and they are no threat to anyone. I dont think anyone finds them intresting or plays as them. But there is a good point that there couldnt be only elutheroi there. Trade are important, and having someone dominating there.
I find them great fun to play, and also to play against, the realm that alexander never got to invade is currently in my seleucid sights :2thumbsup:
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the common Western thought of pre-Islamic Arabia!Quote:
thats a good point. I have never liked saba, and they are no threat to anyone. I dont think anyone finds them intresting or plays as them.
What's all this bagging on Saba? They're one of the more unique factions in the game.
Certainly better, from a flavor standpoint, than yet another greek or gallic faction.
Better, from a realism standpoint, than another roman faction.
What do we need to make EB better?
Certainly not eliminating existing factions, especially the ones that provide very different play challenges on both strategic and tactical levels. . . even if their best troops are dolts with sticks! :yes:
Hax & Divie got in there before I finished typing.
Yeah, they are just a pain in the ass after all. Who needs Saba? But Saba is not the only faction that is totally superfluous. Who needs Aedui and Arverni? One Gallic faction should be more than enough. Who needs Epeiros? We all know that Pyrrhos, the Epeirote of some importance, was killed just a few turns into the game's start... Who needs Baktria? Aren't they just a Seleukid satrapy? They should be removed! The KH - just rebels... Makedonia? They got annihilated just 110 years into the game and never played an important role... All these backwater factions are only taking away precious space for the Romans. Without them, we could have a senate with funny missions, and, most important, three instead of just one Roman faction, so that we would be able to play out epic civil wars, with lots of lorica segmentata! Yeah! We would have much unit space free, so we could include the real important units: western Roman legions, eastern Roman legions, western Roman evocati, eastern Roman evocati, western Roman Antesignani, eastern Roman Antesignani, legions with lorica hamata, legions with lorica segmentata, Praetorians with lorica segmentata, early Roman archers, middle Roman archers, late Roman archers, auxiliary Roman archers with lorica hamata, auxiliary Roman archers with lorica segmentata, Praetorian cavalry, Praetorian cavalry with lorica segmentata, urban cohortes, urban cohortes with lorica... ah you get what I mean! ROMA VICTOR! ROMA VICTOR! ROMA VICTOR!
:smg::smg::smg::smg::smg::smg::smg::smg::smg::smg:
rofl
Saba is great fun! one of my favourite factions. Very unique. You learn to love skirmishers!
And for the topic of the thread:
Not much can be done better... different but not better. AI expansion is pretty good but could be improved for a few factions. Hm...
I think ships should be made cheaper. The AI dont build any ships(I guess because of the price), you get pretty lonely on sea besides the pirates. I want some sea action! :D
In my current game, the Romani and Karthadastim build plenty of Navies and ship around troops frequently, especially the latter ones. Even the Lusos have a navy.
I wouldn't say they're not a threat. In my current campaign, Pontus, Baktria, Parthia, and Saba and taking turns dividing and conquering the mighty Silver Death.Quote:
Originally Posted by ludwag
you know what, I cant even think of a way to improve EB that wouldnt be hardcoded. If only the AI was amazing EB would be the most perfect game ever.
personaly saba was my first choice even though i didn't play them for too long
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
Are you kidding me, I said I DO NOT like the Senate and I DO NOT want them to be in the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus
oh shut up. you see, now this crap right here, this is a fine example of SPAM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DionCaesar
-1
geez, you people are all so sensitive, can't even take a little constructive criticism. I like how people who never mentioned Saba before are all coming out of the dark now to praise it as if it is their favorite faction.
just curious... have you ever played as saba?Quote:
Originally Posted by ludwag
I have never played as Saba, and probably won't until EBII comes out and I start browsing through every faction again to see any changes. That being said, I recognize its importance in Arabia and preventing weird things happening in that region with the Parthians. Besides, the new way that they said are utilizing scripts in EBII makes me believe for some (weird and probably not backed by any factual evidence) reason that any stuff left out (Alexander's tomb) due to using the senate faction can be included even if all the faction slots in EBII are used. If I am wrong about that, please disregard this post because I am idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
You are an idiot.Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Repent or I will send you my cataphracts :duel:Quote:
You could always get rid of unimportant factions like rome, parthia or armenia to make room for the mighty senate [/joke]
forgot to re-edit :egypt: done now...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atraphoenix
what kind of nonsense is this? you do release he made a joke right?
Atraphoenix, note the [/joke] at the end of the sentence. Which shouldn't even be necessary to recognize it as one.
I had forgoten to re-edit, done now...
Oops... I guess one is never too careful when unleashing irony...
Saba are necessary to give the yellow death of Ptolemaic Empire another opponent, otherwise they just cripple the Selucids too easily.
I also don't see Saba as essential to EB. "missions" could be much cooler, I think.
Most of the other stuff seems to be hardcoded, like choosing a general or governor.
The turns are rather long, if that could be reduced it would help.
The AI could be more aggressive. When you are surrounded by slaves you are pretty much safe, as only factions will actively attack you, and I think you should have to guard against eleutheroi as well.
It would be nice if command stars weren't QUITE so hard to earn. When a General gets several heroic victories I would think that would make him more than a mediocre tactician.
The way traits are earned and you have to manage your generals is something I LOVE about EB. Anything you can do to add on to or enhance this would be awesome.
That's all I can think of currently. Will post more if I can think of them.
Sorry for the double post, but after reading back through the thread I wanted to reply to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
Yes. Pretty much any of the senate "missions" would be more important, for me, than Saba.
Until this thread, I have NEVER seen anyone defend Saba. Their family member bodyguard is very weak, and their unit selection is very limited. I don't say this just to infuriate whoever designed the Saba faction, but if you are asknig for ways to improve EB, then either scrap Saba and reintroduce some fun missions that a variety of factions could take advantage of, or improve the Saba faction unit selection and bodyguard.
I was just stunned how many people are defending Saba in the thread here, when I have never seen a pro-Saba post before this.
edit: and yes, I have played Saba. I didn't conquer the world as them, because I found them rather weak and boring, but I did try playing them.
edit2: again, i hope this post doesn't come off as offensive to the EB team. I love your game. Just offering opinions on ways to improve it.
Ummm...gonna have to disagree with that statement. This post, while not particularly lengthy or eloquent, was meant as a type of "defense" or endorsement for having the Saba as a faction. They serve a great purpose for me, as I usually play AS, Pontos, Hayasdan, and Pahlava. If they did not exist, playing the diplomacy game in the Levant would be impossible, since you can't have diplomatic relations with Eleutheroi (rebels/independents/bandits). If I didn't take them on as a "junior partner", I'd be spending my turns fighting off repetitive Ptolemaioi stacks that can't beat my armies, but clog up my turns so that it takes hours just to play 2 turns or so. I like long campaigns, but there's just a limit on how many times I can stomach fighting the same boring-ass stack in the same boring-ass desert. As any of the factions I play, other than the AS, there would be no interest or historical plausibility for taking their lands. So there is another defense for the Saba.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grriffon
PS. Have you read either of Berkeley Boi's Saba AARs ? Just that alone blows out the notion that "no one defends or cares about the Saba".
I have to admit, that if someone would ask me which faction to delete, I would answer Saba. I will probably never play as saba, only I play all other civs before(exept for romans :P ) whih could take some time. but still Saba is much better than senate missions. for one, who is arround in the south? AS Carthage and Ptolemies, all of them can be considered "BIG" saba brings a relatively small opponent into the region, although they are not realy expansive, in my campaign most of what they got from the Ptolemies was a gift of mine^^(in fact the only "interesting" thing they did till now was to send a fullstack army against the AS :( ). appart from that they are VERY unique, they don't have those endless Phalanxes, which i've learned to fight by now but realy make expanding into the near east a pain in the ass.
that said, I think the importance of Saba could be increaced by more regional levies in that region(if possible even a elite unit). If i look at the recruitment viewer that region is either red or not colored at all! there is just nothing that would motivate you to expand down there, other than conquering the whole world :( there has to be SOMETHING that could increace the popularity of that region.
believe it or not, but my first faction in 1.0 was Saba, and it was fun and fresh using armies of archer spearmen...
It just needs MTWII Kingdons engine!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking_Wårlord
I mentioned this already somwhere else but here we go again... ;-)
+ Other Skins for Spies, Agents & Diplo (and if they will be used the priests an merchants Of course)*
They still look a bit fantasy- and vanilla-like.
+ Capitals Start almost fully developped. AFAIK Most of the factions were actually able to recruit Elite troops at 272 BC, or did Alex conquer persia with peasants?
+ The ringing bells when the message of a marriage celebration appears. Please switch them off or replace them
Quote:
Originally Posted by MerlinusCDXX
what was the point of posting that link? it led me to a single post with a single sentence in it. I hardly call that a good defense for Saba. you seriously couldn't find anything else? that was a pretty bad endorsment for the Saba faction.
Game balance is what led to Saba, XGM had to go the same road...
Ok. Some people do not think Saba is necessary. Others think it is a nice addition to EB. Just agree to disagree or this thread is going to turn dirty and will be locked.
To sum it all: De gustibus non disputandum est.
EDIT: Some kind mod might like to split the thread to keep its original constructiveness.
I say what I deem fit, especially if it's on topic like my post you quoted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontius Pilate
And especially when, y'know..it's sarcasm.
The point was that the Saba faction has a purpose in the game even in a thread about something else, and even if one doesn't play them personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontius Pilate
As for the link leading to a single post, at least I keep to the topic of the thread and post something relevant, rather than injecting OMG Romanz roxors LS ROMA VICTOR into any thread no matter the topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus
really, what you said has alot to do with this thread? It is obviously a bunch of spam. You go on to name like every Roman unit in the game and you mention LS, which is in no way related to this thread. Also, what you mentioned that is not related to this thread: Urban cohort, roman auxillary archers with LS(which wasn't even in Vanilla), Roma Victor multiple times, etc. I mean, come on, since when do people post 10 smilies in a single post???
Quote:
Originally Posted by MerlinusCDXX
Did I inject "OMG Romanz roxors LS ROMA VICTOR" into this thread? no I didn't, and if you have a problem with my signature, there is a reason it is in spoilers, don't click on the spoiler if you don't want to.
Pontius Pilate, you really need to start looking at more than one line as context for posts that are made. Not everything everyone says is about you, even though the first line of what they say is a direct answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontius Pilate
Blasphemy. I wonder if some people don't like Saba as it takes some thought on the campaign and battle maps to be successful with them?Quote:
Originally Posted by ludwag
I like saba fine
but to improve EB I REALLY want better-looking roman Cohortes. I mean, look at all the beautiful units Baktria and all the factions have, and the great looking units if the romans, and then you see the cohortes reformata and it just kinda gets ruined. I'm not saying theyre ugly, but the face definatley can be done better. Maybe some stubble or something on the face like the late Hastati, and coolus helmets. and foot dont take this the wrong way because I am in no way insulting the EB team. Bit of constructive criticism, is all
(if there is a minimod like this, please tell me)
well, what he said could have been directed at me, or to everyone. he made no clear satement as to who he was directing his responses to. so one can only assume the worst.Quote:
Originally Posted by bovi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majd il-Romani
yes I agree that the post-marian legionaries could be done in a different way and I also think that the imperial legionaries could use a little bit of resizing and skinning. but they aren't horrible and I still like them. also the faction as a whole is well done and complete, so I shouldn't be complaining about it.
watch out about the constructive criticism thing, it is not very welcome by this forum or the EB team. that's why so many people get flamed for it.
Or one could assume the best. Its a matter of choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontius Pilate
Foot
I agree with you. I look forward to play Pergamon and with other German Factions if available in EB2.Quote:
It just needs MTWII Kingdons engine!!!!!!
BTW, what is the hardcode for Kingdoms for faction numbers we can play; 10 more?
Yup, 10.Quote:
BTW, what is the hardcode for Kingdoms for faction numbers we can play; 10 more?
I've been playing Eb since 7.03 or something and the only thing that can improve Eb is an Armenian voice mod, that's the only thing I can think of that's missing.
ps, saba rules one of the more interesting factions to role-play and create awesome strategies
Slightly off-topic, but this bears mentionning: priorities! There are so many things that we could (eventually) do with the RTW engine to satisfy a solid 75% [1] of everyone who ever complained about or suggested even the slightest thing on these entire forums -- and by the time it would finally be ready for release, we'd be distributing it as a brain chip for your grandson's third-generation holo-neural interface.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus
So the stonewalls some of you get for your "potentially reasonable" suggestions or assertions are often HR-related.
Anyhow, enjoy EB1.2, and we'll get back to working on EBII :turtle:
-Glee
==========================
[1] official EB totally random guess
- Speed improved.
- Larger map?
Imagine the possibilities.
A massive world map stretching from Ireland and Spain in the West to Japan and Korea in the East...
I'd personally love to play a campaign as the Romans on that map from 117AD.
Conquer the Kush and the Han. Show those barbarians why the West is best.
Yeah, make the units on the campaign map cover more ground in a turn. Caesar conquered Gaul a lot faster than it takes me to get from one city in gaul to the next.
Romans fighting Han? wishful thinking. Not gonna happen until EB III. (on the Empire TW engine)
I have a long standing argument with a mate over which was better....Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderSextus
Empire Total War will be absolutely ridiculous....
Whoa, there's a working horde mod? I have to try this, but I'm so freaking busy right now :furious3:Quote:
Originally Posted by TruePraetorian
Others have already justified the inclusion of Saba, so I'm not going to repeat their words. Not my favourite faction, but it's good that they're there. And yes, people have stood up for Saba before this thread, but I'm not going to look for specific posts.
Senate missions are the last thing I'd like to see in EB, along with the Arcani, Yubsteb elephants and Screeching Women...
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishHitman
Not going to happen even then. It's pretty much impossible in reality: apart from the geographic limitations to warmaking between them it's unlikely that two civilizations whose centres are so far apart could meaningfully interact, let alone throw armies at each other. Off course, adding the Han would mean sacrificing resources (unit, faction and province slots) that could be used on the western part of the world map. I really doubt the team is going to do that for a faction that historically had very little influence on the current campaign map.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderSextus
I didn't name every Roman unit in the game, I named Roman units that could be added to the game, if we were to sacrifice EB for lorica segmentata. There have been innumerable attempts to do so, and there is a submod that exactly does that, with some or even more of the units I mentioned. The vast majority of the improvements suggested in this thread would kill EB. People who wish so should better enjoy EB as it is or else play RTR or something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontius Pilate
It was a sarcastic approach to the thread that you didn't understand. ROMA VICTOR was also being sarcastic, or ROMA VICTA could have been even more sarcastic, but nevermind, you won't understand, just don't worry any more. I just made fun.
It was an idea for a Eurasian campaign map, not a European-dominated one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludens
And the Kush provided a key cultural exchange between Rome and the Han Dynasty.