Just curious, how about adding princess FM, as the way to got a long-lasting alliance as in M2TW? Think about The Ptolemies can give their daughters to Phrrhos, The Seleukids, and even Romans... emulating the marriage alliance in this era...
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Just curious, how about adding princess FM, as the way to got a long-lasting alliance as in M2TW? Think about The Ptolemies can give their daughters to Phrrhos, The Seleukids, and even Romans... emulating the marriage alliance in this era...
It has been discussed, and as I don't believe there is a final answer on it, I don't believe they will be used. One main reason being the wish to avoid the theft of enemy generals that Princesses can do.
While marriage alliances were far from non-existant, they were not nearly as common as in medieval times, or so at least it appears to me.
Is that hardcoded or can you have princesses without the theft feature?
A quick look at the Diadochoi kingdoms will tell you otherwise. The early Ptolemies & Seleukids married their daughters here and there. Antiochos III had a Pontic princess as wife, Hierax had a Bithynian (or maybe Pontic as well), Attalos I's mother might have been Seleukid too. Ptolemaiois I was married at first with a daughter of Antipater (who seemed to marry his daughters off to most power players). Pontic Kings had wives from the Seleukid royal house as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by General Appo
The Roman nobility though did not marry outside the Roman families or at least it was almost taboo to do so, case in point being Caesar & Mark Anthony's relationship to Cleopatra. Ptolemaiois V or VI wanted to marry a prominent Roman noblewoman, but the sources say she refused to marry a foreigner which apparently won her much renown in Rome itself. So at least marriages between Romans & other factions should not be ingame.
As for the remaining factions, from what I gather marriages between them would not be looked down upon, as Hannibal & Hasdrubal both had Iberian princesses at least. Celts & Germans I have no idea on, but considering Celts intermarried with peoples they conquered and/or settled with I would take an educated guess and say they would not find it problematic.
Unfortunatly, you can't divorce in MTWII, which was AFAIK also very common in ancient times.
Is stealing enemy generals really so bad? First of all I don't think it's all that common- I hardly ever succeeded with it when I tried out DLV and PDER. And even if you do have to odd general switching sides- that occasionally did happen. Ptolemy Keraunos, for a perfect example. Coriolanus, maybe. Polybius, even. The 'marriage' part could be considered abstractly, the same way that a 'Man of the Hour' turns up in the family tree as someone's son or husband. I think the team should consider leaving it in- bribing generals hardly ever works unless you have a huge bank balance.
Princesses roaming free in the wild? Yeah right...ditch the unhistorical princesses, please!
Presumably they have guards as well. But no snake charmers.
Stealing high-rank generals with high charm princess is an art on itself, at least you can expect that your daughter can betray you and follow that man instead. The only thing I would say about princess in EB II is:
- All diadochian (and hence nearly all greeks except Koinon Helennon), must have princesses
- Kardhastim, Phalavans, and easterners can have princess.
- The barbarians can have princess too (but what's the point to give such unwashed girl a hand?)
:laugh4:
At least with princess, you didn't have to use assasin's blade against high-rank uber generals that still bachelors...:laugh4:
sounds like the princess of wales in Braveheart *pukes*Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaertecken
where the hell is the bridge in the battle of Stirling BRIDGE
They ran out of money for the bridge...
It is too bad you can't represent their wives as ancillaries and tie them to traits. IE. If you move a wife from one guy to another, the guy who gets her turns into an adulterer, the guy who he got it from gets ++ fertility. Quite possible you could have one guy boning everyone's wife. Or something. If only you could kill ancillaries.
ancillaries disappear with the general...just load all your crappy ancillaries onto a guy you don't like and send him on a kamakazi mission.
Queen Cartimandua of the Brigantes seems to have married Venutius purely to bring his tribe into the Brigantian federation, judging by her later actions, but that was a ruling queen rather than a princess. Bearing in mind how easy divorce seems to have been for Celtic women, it would perhaps have been of limited political value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krusader
They did it pretty commonly in ancient Mesopotamia, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by General Appo
Is it possible that a (young) widow will marry again?
I suppose that it's hardcoded - and so impossible.
But it could be great - for example, the romans married "hundreds" of times like us the barbarians of 2008AD.
In M2TW you can remove ancillaries actually. In RTW you couldn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by antisocialmunky
Wow! How??? I remember when I was playing M2TW for two weeks (I quit as I could not stand it), one of my FMs got the Pagan Magician, which does nothing but take off 2 Piety. I did not have a "trash can" general yet, so I just left the FM as he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun
You can use remove_ancillary cheat.
remove_ancillary "Character name" "ancillary name"
example: remove_ancillary "Aemilius Paulus" "magician_pagan"
In RTW this thing doesn't work but it works in M2TW.
Heloo,... what about the princess???:belly:
Marriage alliance was ahistorical for some factions, right? so you can made the Romans, KH, and nomads didn't have any princess such as muslims in M2TW...
I just thinking about making the princess as some sort of generals in the field (like boudicca), at least it was better than give the 20 years old girl for 50 years old pervert.
As MarcusAureliusAntioninus said, it's a bit too early to know for sure. Sorry CuteWolf, but we'll just have to wait a while until a final answer is made by the EB Team. In a few months, I'll necro this thread for you.
u can always mod them into 'princes' and have them given to the other faction as hostages...(and various other things)
Then they would have female names and have male suitors asking to marry your 'princes'. :sweatdrop:Quote:
Originally Posted by satalexton
Umm change the name for princesses in descr_name? Or is that not how it works for princesses?Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusAureliusAntoninus
To qoute Mel Gibson: "The bridge got in the way."Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic_Punk
To qoute local Scott: "That´s what the English found too."
smart:idea2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
But if that is tied with the Muslim feature then you´ll use up a potentially very useful feature on something argueably not really all that important.
I bet you are talking about the jihad-system indeed that is a much more important function than factions without princesses
The Jihad system? No, I´m talking about the whole Marriage Alliance system and if its tied with 'Christian' factions or if 'Muslim' ones can use it as well.
No it's as simple as as changing one line in descr_factions
Have Princess = yes or no
I know there was a mod for M2TW that gives muslim factions ability to use their princess to steal away christian generals, but the backfire of this mod is simply the opposite, muslim generals can fall in love too with christian princess...:laugh4: :2thumbsup:
aha! :idea2: so lord_phan is right, we dnt need to make the factions that dont have princesses "muslim," we just need to change a line in the descr_whatever :clickme3:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
Just a nice model for a Persian princess...
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/stor...d/ana_cute.jpg
Nice? No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
Do not want.
@ Leviathan
:laugh4:Quote:
Nice? No.
Do not want.
She was one of my close friend... :embarassed::dancing:
Just try to give an example of good Saba, Phalavan, Pontos, or Hayasdan Princes's portait.:yes:
How about greek Princess and barbarian princess... ?
I dont think they wore the head-scarves in the Classical period, and I can see her glasses. Nice try though
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah
Well, let's carry on the discussion. In all honesty, princesses really add to the roleplaying and fun factor of the game. Moreover, the Hellenistic dynasties practiced marriage alliances/peace treaties quite often. The Romans did, too (although only with other Romans).
I want to know how the other factions dealt with the royal daughters, and also wish to know the level of support the introduction of princesses in EB2 has amongst the peasants (you guys).
It works for the time being, the headscarf and the glasses have to go as Majd il-Romani suggest's.:2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
so... there will be a marriage alliance afterall?!?
ohh... and I hope barbarian Princess didn't wear the same thing with most "princess" on the Babe Thread... I'm almost sure headscarfes is used by Persian-influenced princess... because my GF told this...
Said that, Ptolies can get a real Peace terms with AS when they marry their princess to AS family, because the AI always honor (well almost always, I never get myself betrayed, except i has betrayed them first) a kind of marriage Alliance... this will give better RP afterall...
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
here is Hayastan princess lol
https://img23.imageshack.us/img23/39...ashianb.th.jpg
ME want marriage alliance with hayasdan :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Sarkiss
Which general doesn't want mto leave the stinking baracks for this hottie :laugh4:
And here is the sweboz princess:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
At first I was like:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullheadhq
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_K2s4COA6m_...+full+face.JPG
Then I saw this:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
And was like this:
http://static.arstechnica.com/assets...30-6044-f.jpeg
source: http://www.gossipnewz.com/gossip_new...ithout-makeup/
Actually, using such ugly girls for the princess portraits would be more realistic, as most ancient women were in fact hideous. :yes:
Eh, more average than hideous. Besides, they had makeup and crap back then too.
In the artwork they look really bad. Like men, even.
I suppose their ideals of good-looking women could have been the opposite of ours, though, and that there were more attractive women IRL.
I almost never marry princesses outside of my faction. They are however very useful to roleplay with in the faction. If a guy was a general or a client ruler, i could add him to my family through marriage. Also lets us not forget the Ptolomies of Egypt... now you can actually have siblings marry eachother. Rome was another faction that used marriage extensively as a political tool amongst ruling families. I vote for princesses!
Even if the EBII team leaves princesses out, there will be a mini-mod with princesses in no-time. Don't worry about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah
OH LAWDQuote:
Originally Posted by Sarkiss
EPIC WIN
Wow, this thread is gonna to be the second babe thread... BTW, looks like that "hotties" wearing only thongs are unrealistic for Sweboz princess... they are supposed to march with their husbands in winter...
Someone really should make a fantasy mod of MTW of their own, then they'd be able to have all the chainmail bikini babes they wanted and the discussion might be kept off this board...
I tried to turn one of the throwaway LS threads into a babe thread one time...Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmetiacos
Quote:
Honestly, I find that chainmail is more practical...
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
...because it's really hard to make a lamallar bikini.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VuA7dyVJL.jpg
Actually, eleutheroi generals are quite easy to bribe. I once bought 2 generals, all arabians, early on in my 1st AS campaign.Quote:
Originally Posted by oudysseos
Kudos to strategos roma for attempting to save the second babe thread from being locked due to off topic posts.
well, rather than posts the whole ahistorical princess in bikini, who have a historical image about hellenistic princess (put aside XXX version of cleopatra):wall:
My thoughts exactly. Great for both practical and RP'ing purposes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishmafia2020
If the romans married between families politically, how can we simulate such unless we get princesses and split the roman factions lke vanilla (the latter, we all agree is ahistorical and incredibly stupid.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishmafia2020
We cannot simulate everything, and the game is not designed to allow such micromanaging of family politics in the patrician class of rome. You just can't do it to the degree you wish to. Its a non-starter. What we have to decide is how much can we reasonably simulate given the focus and limitations of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsatia
Foot
Agreed. We all know that the EB is limited due to the engine. I know that you cannot do everything but all we can do is hope for the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
Does that mean princesses will still be in the game?Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
There is still some debate on the issue (particularly with regards certain aspects of their abilities), but at the moment they are still in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah
Foot
:jumping::jumping::jumping::jumping:
Ability for the Diplomacy? (Which I think they are still fine...) Well educated princess sometimes could topple hard core generals.... Remembar how Cleopatra conquer Julius Caesar and Mark Anthony's hearts??? :laugh2: that's why they are still logical to have diplomatic skills...Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
Or the ability to "steal" away enemy generals without takin any money or factional standing (have my gens and FM "stolen" by rival princess)... they are just fine... and especialy I laugh with Tears when my 10 stars Guillemot de Lyon decide to leave me because he marry a beautiful Milan Princess... when he was allready 58 years old (at least he does deserve a companionship with 19 y (the last time I see that princess) :smile: )
I think its more for the diplomatic marriages of the AS and Ptolies.
they, as we all know, do two things:Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
1. engage in diplomacy as diplomat would
2. can be married off to a general. not necessarily an alien general but your own who got dubious loyalty but otherwise good traits. it may be a very important move too, especially if you're playing a small faction with only couple of FMs
but there is a third thing that i wasnt aware of until yesterday and that outweighs the first two. you can also get a marriage alliance with another faction if its leader is single. and that is "stronger than a regular alliance".
i didnt even know that was possible and considered princesses as another addition that does really add much to the game. but with this new discovered feature things start to look very different and reflect true state of affairs.
Unfortunately, removing their diplomatic ability would almost certainly eliminate their most useful feature, the marriage alliance. Unless this is changeable somehow, the only way to marry a princess is to enter diplomacy directly with her.
nope. diplomats do that (option appears) when you get a princess and faction have a single FL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apraxiteles
you can also marry them to another factions prince and gain an alliance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarkiss
Can we roleplay Ptolemy and marry our own princesses for children with funny shaped heads?
maybe we can modify them into princes....and have them 'sent over' as hostages...
:laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by antisocialmunky
I say use them as they were used in the day: for marriege, diplocy, or even, as this sheenius here suggests, incest.:clown:
Being able to marry my 3x10 mercenary general into the family sounds pretty good to me.
Do you mean having your diplomat negotiate with a foreign diplomat? Because I know that directing a diplomat to a foreign city or unit does not give you the option. I remember having to chase down foreign princesses to ask for their hand as they tromped all over Europe. I never bothered to contact foreign diplomats about it though, as they were usually even more elusive than foreign princesses. If you are correct, how do you chose which one you get to marry? There are often multiple ones per faction, and some of them you decidedly do not want to marry into your family.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarkiss
Town, FM, diplomat, all can be approached for a marriage alliance by either your own princess or diplomat. I'm not sure how the princess is chosen but it's probably just the eldest that will be married, as regular marriages usually go from oldest to youngest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apraxiteles
I'm pretty sure that Apraxiteles is right, you can't marry your princess unless the princess is taking part in the negotiation.
Yepp, the princess need to be present in the "diplomatic meetings". But if that princess was just sitting down in your capital, and some foreign diplomat talk to your capital (or another city with princess "in"... the options is present...) Well, for the easier game's sake... let's pump out their natural charm... as the ai princess (which didn't built enough infrastructures....) only got 2 or 3 charm... painful for your FL or FH, if he has ugly wife..... (better die in the fromt of sarrisae / pikes, rather than have "hideous" princess as wife :laugh4:)
yep, you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by miotas
there was only 1 princess so i got no idea about which one gets married if you got a few, the one with higher charisma i'd think.
if that faction's leader is single and you got a princess an option will appear in diplomacy scroll, an offer to marry off your princess to their FL.
Ow didn't know that, you learn something different every day.
Could there be a princess ancilliary, which spawened with FM and can be givin to other members of faction to marry, (wait:there is no way that could work)
Another problem with this girl is that shes quite dark skinned. The arabs didnt invade Persia until centuries later. I think there probably must have been girls that look like her in Persia but I think most ethnic original Persians are basically white but with different shaped eyes and lips. Sorry for generalizing but yeh that girl is not what a Persian princess would have looked like.. I'll find a better one...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf