$20 for Special Forces? No way.

So, the 'Elite Units' addition is up on Steam, going for twenty dollars. That's ON TOP of plain ol' ETW.

Seriously? These guys expect us to pay $20 for far, FAR, less than we could get for free from the mod community? Makes me consider employing some hairpins. :hairpin2:

From the description on Steam, six units is all you get. Nothing more or less, and only one of those units (the Ottoman Organ Gun, which appears to be some sort of flintlock gatling gun), is actually original and not something that could be achieved with a reskin.

True, it's only ten bucks more if purchased together with ETW, but even then it's rather expensive. Bethesda's model (2-4 bucks for FAR more content) beats this with a sack of oranges.

Caeser says 'nay' :rtwno:

EDIT:
This is especially galling consider that, since this is on Steam, we wont get the fancy map promised in the retail version, nor any other collectors edition goodies.

Boo! Hiss!

I don't see how they expect the online version to sell at that price. The map is the draw for me, and I think it is for many others as well.

6 units? 6 UNITS? Surely they jest? That isn't even one unit per playable faction.

If they aren't going to put a bit more effort in I don't really see the point of this Special Forces addition.

And I hate to say it but, guys? Your fancy new units are going to be up for download within days, possibly hours, of your game going gold. You can't get the map for for free but it will definitely be possible to download the bonus units. (Please don't though, or at least feel bad about it if you do. It is illegal after all)

CA can keep their fancy gee whiz units.:thumbsdown: I never buy Special Edition games.:hide:

That's an insane amount to charge for a few extra units.

How exactly will it add anything more to the game than if I just use the new ability to rename units to name one of my most experienced first-rates "HMS Victory"?

Or, if modding is as easy as they say it is, take a first-rate template and create a special "HMS Victory" unit? With precisely the same stats? Unreal...

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Originally Posted by Sir Beane

And I hate to say it but, guys? Your fancy new units are going to be up for download within days, possibly hours, of your game going gold. You can't get the map for for free but it will definitely be possible to download the bonus units. (Please don't though, or at least feel bad about it if you do. It is illegal after all)

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A very real possibility, but such things are not encouraged here in any way and are heavily frowned upon by CA.

I have to admit personally that I expected more than just six units. Maybe one for each faction would have made the DLC a bit more justifiable in many fans' eyes. That way you would get the benefit of the special edition no matter who you like to play.

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Originally Posted by Monk

A very real possibility, but such things are not encouraged here in any way and are heavily frowned upon by CA.

I have to admit personally that I expected more than just six units. Maybe one for each faction would have made the DLC a bit more justifiable in many fans' eyes. That way you would get the benefit of the special edition no matter who you like to play.

---

I certainly would not encourage people to download the units. But I thiink that the possibility is a very real one that surely CA are aware of and have planned for.

Not being a victim of piracy means offering good content at a fair price, not inadequate content that is overpriced.

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Originally Posted by Sir Beane

I certainly would not encourage people to download the units. But I thiink that the possibility is a very real one that surely CA are aware of and have planned for.

Not being a victim of piracy means offering good content at a fair price, not inadequate content that is overpriced.

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:thumbsup:

Unless the units are god units, in that case I could maybe understand the very few unit count. But I would admit to being in the same boat as everyone else in that I expected much more than six for $20. I'm also surprised that you need the steam version of ETW to get them to work... I don't remember that leading up to their reveal at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steampowered.com

Empire: Total War - Elite Units requires the Steam version of Empire: Total War to play. This content is available on Steam for a limited time. Pre-purchase your Elite Units today!

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~:(

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Originally Posted by Monk

:thumbsup:

Unless the units are god units, in that case I could maybe understand the very few unit count. But I would admit to being in the same boat as everyone else in that I expected much more than six for $20. I'm also surprised that you need the steam version of ETW to get them to work... I don't remember that leading up to their reveal at all.



~:(

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You need the Steam version to make them work? That is unbelievable.

I wonder how interesting they can really make the new units? Even with new models, voices, stats etc. they will still look very similar to all of the other units in the game. It really is nothing that modders couldn't add in if they wanted to. In this case I really think that quantity and quality are going to have to go hand in hand to make this worthwhile.

I think overall there are nine special units if you count the ones that are being offered as store exclusives. Even that number isn't really high enough to make me consider $20.

If we think about it mathematically $20 is about one third of a game (at UK prices anyway). So if they want to charge 1/3 of a games price then there had better be at least a large fraction of a game as content.

This is like horse armor all over again :(

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This is especially galling consider that, since this is on Steam, we wont get the fancy map promised in the retail version, nor any other collectors edition goodies.

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This sums up my thoughts. CA, either you or your publishers have a lot of nerve. :no:

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This is especially galling consider that, since this is on Steam, we wont get the fancy map promised in the retail version, nor any other collectors edition goodies.

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Yes. I want a hard copy not a downloaded version minus the map.Looks like it's vanilla ETW for me.

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Originally Posted by Sir Beane

I think overall there are nine special units if you count the ones that are being offered as store exclusives. Even that number isn't really high enough to make me consider $20.

This is like horse armor all over again :(

---

The Steam page only lists six. Nine units would make me a bit more understanding...personally, I'd think it was an alright deal (even if the units were fairly generic) if it had 20 units. $1 per unit wouldn't be too bad.

However, I dont think even Horse Armor was this bad a deal. Even if it was useless, at least it was only, what, $2?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sheogorath

The Steam page only lists six. Nine units would make me a bit more understanding...personally, I'd think it was an alright deal (even if the units were fairly generic) if it had 20 units. $1 per unit wouldn't be too bad.

However, I dont think even Horse Armor was this bad a deal. Even if it was useless, at least it was only, what, $2?

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Yeah I think it was about that. I agree that 20 units would be nice. 2 units per faction would definitely be acceptable at that price.

Do you think if we make enough fuss someone from CA will drop by and explain the reasoning behind the madness? It would be nice to hear a reason, even if its something along the lines of 'practical joke, we were all drunk, It's because we hate you all, Satan made us do it' etc.

Hopefully.

Jaaaack? Where aaaaaaaaaaare you? :hairpin3:

One of my worst fears is that these units will have godlike powers, even though they will not be available in multiplayer. 2 out of 6 of them apparently belong to Britain, which would give this already overpowered (don't tell me I don't know CA) faction a severe advantage. At least they will probably be unique so you can't build several "HMS Victories."

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Originally Posted by Azlahn

One of my worst fears is that these units will have godlike powers, even though they will not be available in multiplayer. 2 out of 6 of them apparently belong to Britain, which would give this already overpowered (don't tell me I don't know CA) faction a severe advantage. At least they will probably be unique so you can't build several "HMS Victories."

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Since they only appear in single player you could always just not build them if you are worried about balance. The A.I might use them, but come on, it needs all the help it can get. :laugh4:

Of course at the price they are asking there is no danger my game is going to be unbalanced because of them.

For those who are wondering what all this talk of special units is about. Here they are in all their glory. All six of them (plus the store exclusives earned by pre-ordering with a certain store)

HMS Victory:

The Royal Navy’s most distinguished and formidable first rate ship of the line; Lord Nelson’s 104 gun flagship is one of the most heavily armed ships of the 18th Century.

Rogers’ Rangers:

Major Robert Rogers’ company of rangers are highly trained elite light infantry, specialising in reconnaissance and special operations. They are extremely mobile in even the most challenging environments.

Ottoman Organ Gun:

A viciously powerful field gun, able to inflict incredible damage on the opposing army. Emphatic proof of the Ottoman Empire’s advanced knowledge of gunpowder and firearms technology.

Ghoorkas:

"Better to die than be a coward" has been the motto of these elite Nepalese soldiers for centuries. Disciplined, tough and courageous, they carry a deadly 18-inch long, curved knife known as the kukri.

Corso Terrestre Guerillas:

An independent light infantry guerrilla regiment, experienced in skirmish and stealth tactics. Surprise raids and ambushes are the guerillas’ favoured tactics, a way to compensate for their limited number and light armour.

Bulkeley's Regiment:

A French unit of Irish mercenaries with a fearsome reputation for hardiness. Exceptionally tough and resilient, they make for a highly flexible and dependable regiment.

The Dahomey Amazons: (Amazon.com Exclusive Unit):

An elite female-only military regiment from West Africa. Disciplined both in rifle drills and close combat, they are rightly feared for their incredible courage and their practice of decapitating their captives.

U.S.S Constitution (Play.com Exclusive Unit)

The pride of the US navy. Heavily armed super-frigate.

Death's Head Hussars (Game.com Exclusive Unit

Fancy Prussian cavalry with awesome sounding name, they look pretty good to. (This is the only pre-order unit I actually like)

I don’t think you are going to get the CA guys to touch this one!

It is a bit more than I paid for a preordered hard copy.

CA has licensed Steam to handle the game, and hard copy or soft we have to go through Steam to unlock the units. There are also signature units coming from various retailers as you already know.

While Steam is licensed to distribute the game, I doubt CA or Sega tells them exactly what to charge. Some of the hard copies are deeply discounted and others are not so the retailers set their own pricing. My guess is Steam does too and they are charging what they think people will pay.

All I can say is don’t get it from Steam if you want the SF Edition. Get it some place else for a bit less, but with Steam I think you are supposed to get the game up to 3 days early…I guess that is ok if you don’t want a hard copy.

I do wonder if we can now play with out the DVD in the machine since we have to go through Steam anyway?

Also, It is possible that the units could be added to over the life of the game or on a promotional basis. I hope there is a way to share the codes with friends too.

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All I can say is don’t get it from Steam if you want the SF Edition. Get it some place else for a bit less, but with Steam I think you are supposed to get the game up to 3 days early…I guess that is ok if you don’t want a hard copy.

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Firstly it's hard to be "What a great advantage I get the game a month late and 3 days earlier." :laugh4: I mean after a month delay it will be hard to convince yourself your getting the game early come March 20 something.

I'd like to see this game playable without a cd, I mean every other developer is doing it, why not CA/Sega.

The units will most likely be tossed around, since they arn't on mutliplayer I don't see any method or check CA has to block the eventual possibility that people will hand this stuff out outside of the game. There will probably be a activation code, but those things never last.

I'd say most people are better off just buying it from one of the websites/stores and getting one exclusive unit, and not dealing with the steam hassles.

What he means by 3 days early is that 3 days before you can pre-download it, so that on the day it's out all you need is a 5-10 minute unlocking and bam your playing at 12:10.

Eh, that you need the Steam version means that you cannot buy a normal ETW in a store and then get the elite unit pack from Steam. If I'm not mistaken all addon packs on Steam work that way.

It's "only" 10 EUR here, alone or together with ETW, since ETW is quite not so cheap at 50 EUR already, I am not very eager to spend 60 just to get those 6 units, although they do look pretty nice.

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Originally Posted by Husar

It's "only" 10 EUR here, alone or together with ETW, since ETW is quite not so cheap at 50 EUR already, I am not very eager to spend 60 just to get those 6 units, although they do look pretty nice.

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If the German version is that much I suggest you order it from the UK! Mine was under €40 for the SF edition.

If one of those special units would've been dancing elephant unit I would've considered buying it!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

:elephant:- Dancing elephants. Enemy will laugh themselves death and you get easiest victories in the game!!

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

If the German version is that much I suggest you order it from the UK! Mine was under €40 for the SF edition.

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Ah, yes, funny I didn't think of that now, after all I bought almost all my PS3 games from the UK.
Guess I'm just used to buying Steam games from Steam but since the price here is that inflated I guess I will indeed buy it from the UK. That way I also avoid any kind of censorship. :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Sir Beane

Since they only appear in single player you could always just not build them if you are worried about balance. The A.I might use them, but come on, it needs all the help it can get. :laugh4:

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Good point :)

Personally I will be buying the game the game off Amazon as I appreciate any step to include some African history in the game (and yes, the Dahomey Amazons were actually real).

The Death's Head Hussars sound cool, but I can't seem to find any screen shots of them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sir Beane

The Dahomey Amazons: (Amazon.com Exclusive Unit):

An elite female-only military regiment from West Africa. Disciplined both in rifle drills and close combat, they are rightly feared for their incredible courage and their practice of decapitating their captives.

U.S.S Constitution (Play.com Exclusive Unit)

The pride of the US navy. Heavily armed super-frigate.

Death's Head Hussars (Game.com Exclusive Unit

Fancy Prussian cavalry with awesome sounding name, they look pretty good to. (This is the only pre-order unit I actually like)

---

So we know of at least three units that come with specific retailers’ editions. I wonder what others are out there?

It would be nice if there was one place that listed all the various units and which retailers have them, wouldn’t you think?

I am sure that other retailers have the clout to rate their own units! We know the UK retailers, are there any listed from other countries?

Who are the top distributors in some of the other lands?
Top French?
Top Dutch?
Top Spanish?
Top US/Canadian?
You get the idea?

Maybe you want to get a Russian copy for the cool Cossacks or something. Does anyone know some one at CA that might be willing to provide such a list for us?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

So we know of at least three units that come with specific retailers’ editions. I wonder what others are out there?

It would be nice if there was one place that listed all the various units and which retailers have them, wouldn’t you think?

I am sure that other retailers have the clout to rate their own units! We know the UK retailers, are there any listed from other countries?

Who are the top distributors in some of the other lands?
Top French?
Top Dutch?
Top Spanish?
Top US/Canadian?
You get the idea?

Maybe you want to get a Russian copy for the cool Cossacks or something. Does anyone know some one at CA that might be willing to provide such a list for us?

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As far as I have been able to find out from trawling the internet those are the only three retailers which are offering an exclusive unit. I'm not sure if any other retailer has a deal with CA/thinks it's worth bothering.

Since CA is English it makes sense they have deals with English speaking retailers.

We can always hope other units might turn up later though. :beam:

IMO, dividing up the special edition units in that way will only encourage people to download them, or very close variations of them made by modders, rather than get the specific versions. Since it's impossible to get all of them legitimately without 1) Buying all of the various editions (which would cost about $200) and 2) Modding the game to let you use all the various units somehow from all the installations.
:2cents:

As to Cossacks, I do hope they'd be a standard unit for Russia. And hopefully not just a standard 'Cossacks' unit. There's way too much variation among the different tribes to leave them as just plain ol' Cossacks.

Not only is it a rip off, i think not getting all 9 units are insulting, unless i buy 3 games from 3 different sites i dont get all 9 units? oh right so the price goes to what....$120 now :laugh4: i think they should have a unique unit for every faction, the map as many assume we will get anyway, i also think there should be an added feature i.e: historical campaigns (like there were in shogun) or something like that which the original wouldnt get, or a free modding tool (unlikely i know) or just something...



Yours sincerely ~ Jack Lusted :inquisitive:

The Dahomey Amazaons are extra insulting. I might use them in game if I was paid $20 to do so...

Cha, ya-know this just “doesn’t” make any sense :inquisitive:

It’s not Total War standard operating procedure.

Judging by the economic disaster that the whole world is in, with people loosing their jobs as a short term means to keep companies afloat (this has just happened where I work). This may be an effort to help the developers weather the storm ahead (past the third quarter). Sales are down everywhere, and plans made on survivable bottom lines may not be sufficient now.

They probably can’t realistically ask for an increase in price at this point, so came up with an emergency advanced partial expansion release. Now this “does” make sense to me.

Thinking that I may just buy it anyway, even though I am not interested in it at all (strict multiplayer), as a show of support for the folks who have brought us years of fun.

It’s not that much, but could mean a lot to them if we just went along for the ride.

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Originally Posted by Tomisama

Cha, ya-know this just “doesn’t” make any sense :inquisitive:

It’s not Total War standard operating procedure.

Judging by the economic disaster that the whole world is in, with people loosing their jobs as a short term means to keep companies afloat (this has just happened where I work). This may be an effort to help the developers weather the storm ahead (past the third quarter). Sales are down everywhere, and plans made on survivable bottom lines may not be sufficient now.

They probably can’t realistically ask for an increase in price at this point, so came up with an emergency advanced partial expansion release. Now this “does” make sense to me.

Thinking that I may just buy it anyway, even though I am not interested in it at all (strict multiplayer), as a show of support for the folks who have brought us years of fun.

It’s not that much, but could mean a lot to them if we just went along for the ride.

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You might be right. But if this is a last ditch effort to secure extra funds CA have shot themselves in the foot. If Special Forces features just a little bit more content and a little bit more effort then the community would be pleased and it would probably sell much better.

As it is I know I don't have the funds to justify buying Special Forces, it just isn't good enough value for money.

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

The Dahomey Amazaons are extra insulting. I might use them in game if I was paid $20 to do so...

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I think those other three units come free with the game when you order it from that particular site. IE: You buy it from Amazon, you get the Amazons. A little joke on their part :tongueg:

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Originally Posted by Sir Beane

As it is I know I don't have the funds to justify buying Special Forces, it just isn't good enough value for money.

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I don't have the extra money either, and don't think the value is there. But have done it anyway, as a show of general support.

Just the way I read the field :candle:

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Originally Posted by Tomisama

I don't have the extra money either, and don't think the value is there. But have done it anyway, as a show of general support.

Just the way I read the field :candle:

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Fair enough. You're obviously a more generous man than I. :laugh4: I want to support CA, but poor students such as myself have to prioritise other things (such as actually having enough money for food, etc.)

I wish there was another, cheaper way to show support for CA, but I can't think of anything. I might end up getting Special Forces anyway (against my better judgement.)

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Originally Posted by Sir Beane

Fair enough. You're obviously a more generous man than I. :laugh4: I want to support CA, but poor students such as myself have to prioritise other things (such as actually having enough money for food, etc.)

I wish there was another, cheaper way to show support for CA, but I can't think of anything. I might end up getting Special Forces anyway (against my better judgement.)

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Fair enough :bow:

If you can't, you can't.

But I hope those who can, will consider that there may be more than meets the eye in this offer.

We may be able to find out more about this later, or we may never know, or I could be totaly wrong in the first place :oops:

From a buisness point of view it can make sense for CA to sell such a slightly extended version for 20$. For people with enough money and interest and for CA alike it can be a fair deal. Actually all you who say "no way" should be happy that CA charges relatively much for it as CA will get more money and you still get a (hopefully) very good game. If the product is good and truly hope CA and its workers will make a good deal of money to enable them to make other games of my most beloved series.

OA

Well, if I buy the game from play.com I get seven extra units and it is pretty much priced like any other game here in Germany. That seems reasonable to me. :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Husar

Well, if I buy the game from play.com I get seven extra units and it is pretty much priced like any other game here in Germany. That seems reasonable to me. :2thumbsup:

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Ditto!

In looking over the site today I found that the second most ordered item was Empire: Total War, and the fourth most ordered item was Empire: Total War, Special Forces Edition.

That is not to bad for a preordered game that has been delayed for at least a month, is it?

Certainly not even in the right ballpark in providing money. You get the HMS Surprise and all the major characters of Patrick O'Brian's series in to the game and I might, just might, consider putting down some extra money. Even then, I'd like it to be a more reasonable charge even with me being a hideous fanboy of the books.

That people here are actually approving the extortionate prices for some meagre extra content is astonishing. I wonder if they do that a lot? Going to a vendor and saying: "Please charge me more!" doesn't strike me as very sensible.
It's certainly not a very good signal to give off for those that want value for money.

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Originally Posted by Elmar Bijlsma

Certainly not even in the right ballpark in providing money. You get the HMS Surprise and all the major characters of Patrick O'Brian's series in to the game and I might, just might, consider putting down some extra money. Even then, I'd like it to be a more reasonable charge even with me being a hideous fanboy of the books.

That people here are actually approving the extortionate prices for some meagre extra content is astonishing. I wonder if they do that a lot? Going to a vendor and saying: "Please charge me more!" doesn't strike me as very sensible.
It's certainly not a very good signal to give off for those that want value for money.

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Why not Hornblower! And lets add Jane Austin and add Jonathan Strange and Mr. What’s his name to that! Nothing like bottling up ships with a phantom navy! Or fogging in the French Coast! :laugh4:

With all respect, most earlier Special Editions only gave you some tiny extra like a map or a thicker manual. This one at least has some special units to go with the fancier box and map.

The only other Special Edition in the Total War Series was for Medieval 2 unless I am totally mistaken. And it only had the map and tech tree so far as I know, but I will await enlightenment.

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or a thicker manual

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If they gave me a better game manual, new units, and a map, I'd be there :P

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

Why not Hornblower! And lets add Jane Austin and add Jonathan Strange and Mr. What’s his name to that! Nothing like bottling up ships with a phantom navy! Or fogging in the French Coast! :laugh4:

With all respect, most earlier Special Editions only gave you some tiny extra like a map or a thicker manual. This one at least has some special units to go with the fancier box and map.

The only other Special Edition in the Total War Series was for Medieval 2 unless I am totally mistaken. And it only had the map and tech tree so far as I know, but I will await enlightenment.

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What irritates me is that for Rome we got a map, tech tree and a reasonably thick manual in the normal edition. I have a lot of games that came with maps as standard. Its a shame actually getting anything in the box other than the game is considered to be 'special' nowadays.

As for famous people, why not a pirate edition! Edward 'Blackbeard' Teach, 'Calico' Jack Rackham, Sir Henry Morgan, Bartholomew 'Black Bart' Roberts, Anne Bonney, Mary Reade and all of their respective ships. It would be nice to see them all as Admirals/Captains/Generals.

For those who prefer the child friendly pirate there could be Long John Silver, Captain Hook, and Jack Sparrow if CA could somehow acquire the rights to his character. :laugh4:

Special units could be the Queen Anne's Revenge (Blackbeards flagship), The Black Pearl, The William (Calico Jack, Bonney and Reade's ship) and the Great Fortune (Black Bart's ship.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sir Beane

What irritates me is that for Rome we got a map, tech tree and a reasonably thick manual in the normal edition. I have a lot of games that came with maps as standard. Its a shame actually getting anything in the box other than the game is considered to be 'special' nowadays.

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Oh yes, of course. But that was before they were bought up by Sega.

Not that Sega is bad but when you are talking about large corporations there bottom line decisions don’t always equate to what is smartest or best for the customer. Sega came from the console gaming side, with an early focus on hardware and CA was their first venture into the PC software market.

Accountants aren’t noted as rabid gamers so when they suggest cutting costs guess what is seen as dispensable. Have you ever seen a console game with a thick manual and maps?

It doesn’t mean that they are trying to do things wrong, it is just part of their corporate culture and there is a learning curve involved. I am sure CA is doing there best and Sega is too but remaining profitable is always going to be the major concern, as it should be.

M2TW was the first full release under Saga. It was a safe bet in content with less in the way of nice to have extras. CA put out a special edition with what would have been standard before but they had to charge a bit more to recoup the extra costs. We are seeing the same again with a bit of extra content this time. The better is sells, the better the argument for more in the basic games of the future. If it does poorly then Sega can divert CAs efforts to the console market.

Software Companies come and go. Sometimes it seems the better the games the greater the likelihood that they fail. If you want to see Total War type games you have to support them with your money. The people making the games have families to support. They are not doing it out of charity. Sega is not a great bunch of Robber Barons out to pick your pocket. That would be Microsoft!:skull:.. :elephant::pirate2:...:hmg:

It is just my opinion but the best way I see to get better games and more content is to buy the SF edition.


:yes:

Daylight Gentleman Robbery I say, like someone stealing your wallet, then giving the total ammount of money in there via the Numerical amount in Zimbabwean Dollars (1000 Pounds become 1000 ZBWD)

Ideally if there going to charge and extra £19 (that might be the exchange rate by the time you read this) then they need to add far more units and deliver proper expansions to your door free of charge. (Ok slightly over the top, but then so is what there doing)

And plus, MP, theres going to be a vast majority of people will purchase ETW alone (Myself being among this horde of angry people) there going to have to have seperate servers, or have a major imbalance on the web.

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Originally Posted by Abokasee

Daylight Gentleman Robbery I say, like someone stealing your wallet, then giving the total ammount of money in there via the Numerical amount in Zimbabwean Dollars (1000 Pounds become 1000 ZBWD)

Ideally if there going to charge and extra £19 (that might be the exchange rate by the time you read this) then they need to add far more units and deliver proper expansions to your door free of charge. (Ok slightly over the top, but then so is what there doing)

And plus, MP, theres going to be a vast majority of people will purchase ETW alone (Myself being among this horde of angry people) there going to have to have seperate servers, or have a major imbalance on the web.

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£19! Try £5. Don’t blame CA for not being able to find the game at a better price! Blame the Seller and not the Source…

I don’t know where you are shopping but I would look around a bit before I decided. It is your money!