O frabjous day! Calloo callay!

The 12th of February 1809 saw the birth of two of the most influential men of any century.

Charles Darwin revolutionised everything we understand about biology and articulated perhaps the most important thought ever to occur - the idea of the evolution of species through natural selection. His books on the subject are paragons of observational science and critical self-examination.

Across the Atlantic, Abraham Lincoln also came into the world, destined to preserve the most important experiment in human liberties. The extraordinary courage and principle he brought to politics has rarely, if ever, been matched.

What a day, 200 years ago. What an extraordinary day.

That's amazing! I was unaware that these two shared a birthday.

At least it seems like you're in a better mood now. :2thumbsup:

Where did Frags post go? :inquisitive: Must have been the fastest hi-jack of a thread in the interwebs history. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Charles Darwin revolutionised everything we understand about biology and articulated perhaps the most important thought ever to occur - the idea of the evolution of species through natural selection. His books on the subject are paragons of observational science and critical self-examination.

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Awaiting post by Navaros in 3...2...1... ~D

Not a bad day in history. :bow:

they also share a birthday with me.....
=P
i feel so honored!

This is all good but you should remember that Darwin's birth date is merely a theory and not a fact :elephant:

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Across the Atlantic, Abraham Lincoln also came into the world, destined to preserve the most important experiment in human liberties.

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Whether those jerks in the south wanted it or not!

Why does the topic title remind me of Vogon Poetry?

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Oh freddled gruntbuggly,
Thy micturations are to me
As plurdled gabbleblotchits
On a lurgid bee
That mordiously hath bitled out
Its earted jurtles
Into a rancid festering [drowned out by moaning and screaming]
Now the jurpling slayjid agrocrustles
Are slurping hagrilly up the axlegrurts
And living glupules frart and slipulate
Like jowling meated liverslime
Groop, I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes
And hooptiously drangle me
With crinkly bindlewurdles,
Or else I shall rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon
See if I don't.

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:clown:

Came for the title, stayed for the content. :beam:

A great day indeed. :bow:

And a great thread also, for having references to both the Hitchiker's Guide and the Jabberwocky on the opening page.

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

Whether those jerks in the south wanted it or not!

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Slave owners and inbreeds.

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

Slave owners and inbreeds.

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...and those who followed. :wink:

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Originally Posted by PBI

A great day indeed. :bow:

And a great thread also, for having references to both the Hitchiker's Guide and the Jabberwocky on the opening page.

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Ah, that's why! :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

...and those who followed. :wink:

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Ok. I deserved that one:laugh4:

They were discussing this on radio 4 this morning... they pretty much came to the conclusion that what both did was probably inevitable anyway... even if that is true.... they are two top guys who changed the world (at the very least more quickly...)

I just find it ironic that we killed a bunch of people who wanted leave a country to "preserve" liberty...

:dizzy2:

/mind you, my regionalism means I'm not rooting for the South...

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

I just find it ironic that we killed a bunch of people who wanted leave a country to "preserve" liberty...

:dizzy2:

/mind you, my regionalism means I'm not rooting for the South...

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The civil war is very misunderstood by traditionalists and there southern brethren who like to whitewash the peculiar institution.

The bloodiest war in American history is the most misconstrued.

Certainly, and that goes for both sides. Really, both sides should've lost.

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

Certainly, and that goes for both sides. Really, both sides should've lost.

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Well if you had to pick a side it would be the north. Imagine a shattered union leading to British or German or Russian Hegonmoney. I shake at the thought.

Those things happened anyway. No foreign power was going to actually take land in the US.

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

Those things happened anyway. No foreign power was going to actually take land in the US.

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I mean as a superpower. The north and the south need eachother (and still do)

It's only earned us ruin. Heck, an alternative might not have even lead to WW2.

The best thing i can say for the South is state's rights, If the states were more independent then maybe US presidents wouldn't have been able to get away with so much bad stuff... on the flipside you probably could have done as much good stuff either...

I have thought about it a few times... would we be better of if the south won...?

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

It's only earned us ruin. Heck, an alternative might not have even lead to WW2.

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If by ruin you mean TEH BEST COUNTRY EVA. Then yes.

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

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I have thought about it a few times... would we be better of if the south won...?

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No. Eventually the slavery and feudal like system of the antebellum south would've ended with more blood than before. Blacks were used as boogeyman to keep poor whites (90% of the pop) in there place.

You hear stories of integrated schools and how people were downright scared of the blacks. It comes from all the years of some one telling you these subhumans will destroy all that is good in the world and should be kept under bondage (did we mention make the rich richer? that to!)

Also Texas would've probably broken off and fought another pointless war with Mexico. Our TRUE enemy lol.

based purely off assumptions and logic i assumed that system would have been dropped as it was in the north, when the south become more industrialised..

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

based purely off assumptions and logic i assumed that system would have been dropped as it was in the north, when the south become more industrialised..

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It was more than the money. It permeated the whole social fabric. Not to mention there are still many places in the south that have no industry.

Look at how the Northeners treated the Irish.

Not to mention there are still many places in the south that have no industry.

One of my assumptions was that the South would industrialise after being seperated from the industrial north

Look at how the Northeners treated the Irish.

Doesn't this kind of back up my point, they managed to 'grow out of it'

Wasn't the socail fabric of the north somewhat similar not too long before the war started..?

Im not so much arguing to prove you wrong here, i don't doubt you now more on the subject then me... consider this a cross examination of your beliefs on the matter to further my knowledge!

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

Not to mention there are still many places in the south that have no industry.

One of my assumptions was that the South would industrialise after being seperated from the industrial north

Look at how the Northeners treated the Irish.

Doesn't this kind of back up my point, they managed to 'grow out of it'

Wasn't the socail fabric of the north somewhat similar not too long before the war started..?

Im not so much arguing to prove you wrong here, i don't doubt you now more on the subject then me... consider this a cross examination of your beliefs on the matter to further my knowledge!

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The south and industrialization is a maybe or maybe not more than likely the south would've cracked and be gobbled backed up piece by piece by the north. Except Texas which would've probably gone back to Mexico or managed to eek out a debt ridden existence.

The Irish had the awesome trait of being light skinned and light eyed. Once you lose the accent and have the traditions beat out of you people tend to notice you less. You cant get rid of black skin. There was still an anti-Irish settiment up until the 1920s when those Itals slavs and jews took on the role of the new boogeyman.

The south and industrialization is a maybe or maybe not more than likely the south would've cracked and be gobbled backed up piece by piece by the north. Except Texas which would've probably gone back to Mexico or managed to eek out a debt ridden existence.

For the south to be a workable entity it needed to industrialise assuming the states could organise themselves well enough industry could have been established... im assuming there were some capable leaders in the south... states right could have been a barrier to success...

There was still an anti-Irish settiment up until the 1920s when those Itals slavs and jews took on the role of the new boogeyman.

Wouldn't mexicans or north north americans become the new boogeymen... overtime at least...

I think the one big thing that would sway me here is every other single european owned, european descended or in europe got rid of slavery through thier own accord eventually...this leads me to think the south would come around to this idea soon enough...

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Happy BD Chuck! :medievalcheers:
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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

The south and industrialization is a maybe or maybe not more than likely the south would've cracked and be gobbled backed up piece by piece by the north. Except Texas which would've probably gone back to Mexico or managed to eek out a debt ridden existence.

For the south to be a workable entity it needed to industrialise assuming the states could organise themselves well enough industry could have been established... im assuming there were some capable leaders in the south... states right could have been a barrier to success...

There was still an anti-Irish settiment up until the 1920s when those Itals slavs and jews took on the role of the new boogeyman.

Wouldn't mexicans or north north americans become the new boogeymen... overtime at least...

I think the one big thing that would sway me here is every other single european owned, european descended or in europe got rid of slavery through thier own accord eventually...this leads me to think the south would come around to this idea soon enough...

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There were capable leaders in the south but they were staunch state men. The Confederacy win or lose was doomed to fail. Slavery would've been gotten rid of but it would've been a bloody angered affair. Europe never had this kind of slavery on this scale. Blacks outnumbered whites on the Mississippi Delta (and still do) You combine the subhuman aspect with the very real fact you would have allot of the south under black rule, you have a power imputes.

America has changed the definition of mongrel over time to accomadate more people in the "white majority"

You had the
Germans
Irish
Irish/Chinese
Southern/Eastern Euros/Jews
Mexicans
Arabs/Hispanics (mainly Cental Americans "old style latins" tend to be left out)


Of course as WASP whose family built this country I consider them all squatters.

I just have to ask... Is the title of this thread from Alice in Wonderland?

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Originally Posted by woad&fangs

I just have to ask... Is the title of this thread from Alice in Wonderland?

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Through the Looking Glass.

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"

He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought—
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.

And as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!

One, two! One, two! and through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

"And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!"
He chortled in his joy.

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

“two top guys who changed the world”: ?
Darwin changed a perception of the world, not the world.
Lincoln just followed what other modern nations did before… Just do remember he fought against the secession of the CSA, not for the freedom of the slaves. I think he waited until Antietam to speak about the abolition.
And it was the South which stated the war…

Nowadays, Lincoln would be a war criminal that waged a war against the people will to separate and oppressed minorities.
He denied the Southern Whites of their Rights to express and to live their CULTURE, IMPOSED by FORCE his politic and SUPRESSED their rights. He “uniformised” the so called USA and denied all differences…:laugh4:

And the 12th of February saw me to come in this world as well…:beam: 50 years ago, time is flying...:balloon2:

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BD Brenus! :balloon:
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