Fred Phelps Banned in Britain

Now i despise the Phelps family as much as anyone, but why is Britain suddenly banning people? First that Geert Wilders, now Phelps? Is the British way of life so fragile that allowing a couple of fruitbats in will destroy them?

Seriously, what gives?

A homophobic American cleric who runs a website called God Hates Fags and was allegedly planning to picket a play showing in the UK has been banned from Britain by the home secretary, Jacqui Smith.

Fred Phelps had vowed to come to Britain with his daughter, Shirley, to picket a school play in Basingstoke, Hampshire, that promotes tolerance for gay people. The play, The Laramie Project, depicts the murder of a homosexual teenager, #Matthew Shepard, in the Wyoming town in 1998. It will be staged tomorrow evening at Queen Mary's College. [...]

A posting on Phelps's companion website God Hates the World this week stated: "God hates England. Your Queen is a whore. You're going to hell." [...]

A UK Border Agency spokesman said: "The home secretary has excluded both Fred Phelps and his daughter from the UK. Both these individuals have engaged in unacceptable behaviour by inciting hatred against a number of communities.

"The government has made it clear it opposes extremism in all its forms. We will continue to stop those who want to spread extremism, hatred and violent messages in our communities from coming to our country … regardless of their opinions and beliefs."

We banned George Raft as well.

God Hates Fags :laugh: What a comedy. This guy thinks he is entitled to know exactly what and who god hates or loves.

People didn't like muslims saying a bunch of nasty things so we decided to cut down on it, everything after that is just for consistency...

From what I read in articles dealing with the whole Wilders controversy, Britain hasn't actually been throwing out that many violence preaching Imams.

CR

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why is Britain suddenly banning people?

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"Ban" is our politicians favourite word.

Whilst I don't want to hear either Phelps or Wilders, I don't want them banned. Its a worrying sign of our increasingly unfree society.

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Britain hasn't actually been throwing out that many violence preaching Imams

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Its a little more complicated. We got to the party late, true. There has been rank hypocrisy in the past, largely on the left, which saw Muslims as an exciting source of status quo busting votes without thinking about the inevitability of a Muslim political identity developing or what it could look like. And there are issues that some of the Imams are British citizens, and so can't be thrown out (alas, Australia doesn't let us transport crims there any more), and others may be tortured or not get a fair trial if deported to certain countries (although the House of Lords gave a helpful judgement on that yesterday). But as things stand today I don't think an Imam equivalent of Wilders would be treated much differently.

They're just attention seekers, and well done to the government because you just gave them a whole lot more attention, do we never learn?

I think it goes without saying that the Phelps family don't represent Christians, it's almost like they're trying to sabotage Christianity from within.

There's no good news at the moment, so anything that can take focus away from the government is Good. Barring looneys is a great way of filling space - lest reporters get bored and focus more on the economy.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by English assassin

Its a little more complicated. We got to the party late, true. There has been rank hypocrisy in the past, largely on the left, which saw Muslims as an exciting source of status quo busting votes without thinking about the inevitability of a Muslim political identity developing or what it could look like.

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Excuse me? Britain became Londonistan during the 1980's and 1990's when the Tories were in control.

It was Tory policy to leave terrorist organisations and their leaders untouched as long as they left Britain untouched and committed their crimes elsewhere, notably in France, the U.S. and other western allies of Britain. It is the most cowardly legacy of the Thatcher and Major years. It's failure became obvious when the 'security covenant' between the British government and people like Omar Bakri leaked in 1995. Oh, and of course the 'special relationship' with Saudi Arabia has something to do with it: Wahhabi agitation in Britain in exchange for lucrative business deals, such as the £20 billion Yamama deal of 1985. The Thatchers even had a personal stake in that one, if you'll remember. All in the interest of world peace no doubt.

Just for smoking a little pot? Please.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Just for smoking a little pot? Please.

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:laugh4: That's what I thought at first. It makes sense with them banning a Dutchman though.

For consistency's sake, I'm not sure I see much of a problem with Phelps being banned, considering I'd say he is quite a bit worse than Wilders.

To be completely honest, I hoped the Chinese would have done something while his little group was there for the Olympics. I can't imagine America demanding his return that seriously.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

For consistency's sake, I'm not sure I see much of a problem with Phelps being banned, considering I'd say he is quite a bit worse than Wilders.

To be completely honest, I hoped the Chinese would have done something while his little group was there for the Olympics. I can't imagine America demanding his return that seriously.

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I'd have thought that America would have demanded that the Chinese kept him there.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

I'd have thought that America would have demanded that the Chinese kept him there.

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Quite. I wouldn't have minded that much.

Regardless, I'm caught here. I really don't like Fred Phelps - but I don't like Jackboot Jacqui very much either.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

I'd have thought that America would have demanded that the Chinese kept him there.

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:laugh4: :laugh4:

Can't really DO that of course, he's a yank and therefore our responsibility, but oh did your comment give me a chuckle....

Muahahaha what a sad, sad attempt to appear consistent :beam:

'The play, The Laramie Project, depicts the murder of a homosexual teenager, #Matthew Shepard, in the Wyoming town in 1998. It will be staged tomorrow evening at Queen Mary's College.

Phelps, who runs the Primitive Baptist Westboro church in Topeka, Kansas – most of whose congregation are members of his family, including his 13 children – has bought a plot of land in Laramie where he plans to build a memorial celebrating the murder, despite local opposition.'


End of story. Promoting and celebrating murder is a big no.


I wonder if he will ever go to jail for his nonsence. In the caring and safe environment of a correctional facility he will possibly see homosexuality from another point of view and appreciate it as a lifestyle if not as a sexual preference.


Edit: His website is a must-see :)

If you're an American advocating that China should be punishing any one person because of their idiotic views, either kick me out of the US or GTFO.

No pasaran!

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Originally Posted by rasoforos

'The play, The Laramie Project, depicts the murder of a homosexual teenager, #Matthew Shepard, in the Wyoming town in 1998. It will be staged tomorrow evening at Queen Mary's College.

Phelps, who runs the Primitive Baptist Westboro church in Topeka, Kansas – most of whose congregation are members of his family, including his 13 children – has bought a plot of land in Laramie where he plans to build a memorial celebrating the murder, despite local opposition.'


End of story. Promoting and celebrating murder is a big no.

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Changed my mind, it's good that he got banned. Banning Wilder's is a big no.

It's a good thing your commitment to free speech is so strong, Frag...

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

It's a good thing your commitment to free speech is so strong, Frag...

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I draw the line at spreading hate, celebrating a murder on a homosexual teen you have got to be kidding me. A government who allows that isn't doing it's job: protecting it's citizins.

Hey he has a new 'God hates the UK' video...

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Originally Posted by rasoforos

I wonder if he will ever go to jail for his nonsence. In the caring and safe environment of a correctional facility he will possibly see homosexuality from another point of view and appreciate it as a lifestyle if not as a sexual preference.

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Yes, let's control his mind through emprisonment and enforced buggering, that will surely make him a model citizen.

Like rasoforos.

Who isn't the least bit homophobic himself.

No Sir.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Yes, let's control his mind through imprisonment and enforced buggering, that will surely make him a model citizen.

Like rasoforos.

Who isn't the least bit homophobic himself.

No Sir.

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Irony is apparently totally lost. I just think that this guy would totally freak out in prison.

Perhaps I should have pointed it out better that this was not my serious opinion but just an attempt to be ironic. Although I d appreciate it if you would inquire about the meaning of my post before launching personal accusations.

And no Sir I am not homophobic. Not a bit. Not ever.

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Originally Posted by English assassin

And there are issues that some of the Imams are British citizens, and so can't be thrown out (alas, Australia doesn't let us transport crims there any more), and others may be tortured or not get a fair trial if deported to certain countries (although the House of Lords gave a helpful judgement on that yesterday). But as things stand today I don't think an Imam equivalent of Wilders would be treated much differently.

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Ah, good to know.

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Excuse me? Britain became Londonistan during the 1980's and 1990's when the Tories were in control.

It was Tory policy to leave terrorist organisations and their leaders untouched as long as they left Britain untouched and committed their crimes elsewhere, notably in France, the U.S. and other western allies of Britain. It is the most cowardly legacy of the Thatcher and Major years. It's failure became obvious when the 'security covenant' between the British government and people like Omar Bakri leaked in 1995. Oh, and of course the 'special relationship' with Saudi Arabia has something to do with it: Wahhabi agitation in Britain in exchange for lucrative business deals, such as the £20 billion Yamama deal of 1985. The Thatchers even had a personal stake in that one, if you'll remember. All in the interest of world peace no doubt.

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I'm interested in this; do you have any links to good sources of information, or recommended reading?

Thanks,
CR

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

I'm interested in this; do you have any links to good sources of information, or recommended reading?

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There is a whole lot of documentation on the episode. Just take it from here:

link
link
link

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Just for smoking a little pot? Please.

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That made my day

I think the difference between Wilders and Phelps is that Wilders says others preach Hate, while Phelps clearly does preach it himself.

I confess however, that this event may have touched on me personnally, no doubt I will discover whether or not in the coming days, (I have friends in the area that might have been there had he attended, and would probably have made the effort knowing he was there.)

This douche isn't worth the debate. To quote /b/, don't feed the trolls.

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Originally Posted by English assassin

Its a little more complicated. We got to the party late, true. There has been rank hypocrisy in the past, largely on the left, which saw Muslims as an exciting source of status quo busting votes without thinking about the inevitability of a Muslim political identity developing or what it could look like.

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This is Clarksonesque fantasy. I suggest you look at the timings and reasons behind immigration in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

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Originally Posted by Subotan

To quote /b/, don't feed the trolls.

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But isn't banning the dude, by definition, feeding a troll? Or not? Would he have reaped more attention by protesting the play, or less?

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I think the difference between Wilders and Phelps is that Wilders says others preach Hate, while Phelps clearly does preach it himself.

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That, and Wilders is a democratically elected mp

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Originally Posted by Lemur

But isn't banning the dude, by definition, feeding a troll? Or not? Would he have reaped more attention by protesting the play, or less?

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*Shrugs* It's not like anyone in the UK cares he's been B&! (Banned)

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Originally Posted by Subotan

This douche isn't worth the debate. To quote /b/, don't feed the trolls.

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One man's troll is another man's freedom fighter.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

But isn't banning the dude, by definition, feeding a troll? Or not? Would he have reaped more attention by protesting the play, or less?

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More like denying food to someone on a hunger strike.

As much as I despise the man, forcibly silencing him is not necessary, the majority of people would ignore him anyway.

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Originally Posted by Psychonaut

As much as I despise the man, forcibly silencing him is not necessary, the majority of people would ignore him anyway.

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Not letting him in isn't silencing him though. He's a foreigner, and Britain is under no obligation to let him in. I wish we'd be as stringent with other mad preachers as well, but this is a start.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Not letting him in isn't silencing him though. He's a foreigner, and Britain is under no obligation to let him in. I wish we'd be as stringent with other mad preachers as well, but this is a start.

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That would be my line of thought as well.

The whole of western civilization suddenly seems to revolve around 'freedom of speech'. As soon as somebody yells 'freedom of speech!' all other considerations are out of the window nowadays. (Plus I swear I'll scream the next time some punk on the internets starts a tirade about his freedom of speech when his post is edited or removed :wall:)

What of freedoms that are negatively infringed upon? There is freedom of worship, freedom from want, freedom of discrimination. Yet we don't hold ourselves under any obligation to extent these freedoms to the entire world via an open door policy for every oppressed Chinese minority, starving African or Iranian homosexual. Their rights are far more brutally denied than those of Wilders or Phelps, yet we don't allow them in either. So just why Britian should have an open door policy for every hatemongerer out there simply for them to exert one - out of many - freedoms in the UK is beyond me.

I, for one, applaud Britain's recent wave of denial of entry. (With the provision that I am not convinced that Wilders really was a threat to public order)

-~-~-~+<o0O0o>+~-~-~-

Also, don't want to start a thread about it, Argentina has expelled Williamson. That holocaust denying catholofascist. Excellent. I am happy that liberal democracy is standing up for itself. No Open Door policy for crime syndicats, Islamofascists, terrorists, fascistopopes, priests, Phelpses, fascists and other assorted clowns. ~:wave:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

That, and Wilders is a democratically elected mp

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again, I believe it's even against EU law to deny a member mp entry. The only threat to british security is Brown's panic.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

That would be my line of thought as well.

The whole of western civilization suddenly seems to revolve around 'freedom of speech'. As soon as somebody yells 'freedom of speech!' all other considerations are out of the window nowadays. (Plus I swear I'll scream the next time some punk on the internets starts a tirade about his freedom of speech when his post is edited or removed :wall:)

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Internet forums are private, not public places. Owners/runners are not under any obligation to allow free speech.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

What of freedoms that are negatively infringed upon? There is freedom of worship, freedom from want, freedom of discrimination. Yet we don't hold ourselves under any obligation to extent these freedoms to the entire world via an open door policy for every oppressed Chinese minority, starving African or Iranian homosexual. Their rights are far more brutally denied than those of Wilders or Phelps, yet we don't allow them in either. So just why Britian should have an open door policy for every hatemongerer out there simply for them to exert one - out of many - freedoms in the UK is beyond me.

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None of those people you've mentioned are citizens of EU countries, so they're not particulary relevant to the issue at hand. (in regards to the Iranian homosexual you're probably thinking of, he eventually got in) The general rule is that you can travel around in the Schengen zone without a fuss. Wilders had, in fact, visited Britain a couple of weeks before he was banned. The second time he wanted to show some homemade videos, some muslims threatened to riot if he got in *cough*extortion*cough*, and the Home Office concluded that Wilders was the one who's threatening public order.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Also, don't want to start a thread about it, Argentina has expelled Williamson. That holocaust denying catholofascist. Excellent. I am happy that liberal democracy is standing up for itself. No Open Door policy for crime syndicats, Islamofascists, terrorists, fascistopopes, priests, Phelpses, fascists and other assorted clowns. ~:wave:

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Hmm...

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Originally Posted by BBC

Argentina's interior ministry said on Thursday that Bishop Williamson "has concealed the true motive for his stay in the country".

He had said he was an employee of a non-governmental group rather than declaring "his true activity" as the director of a seminary, the ministry stated.

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Sounds like they're using a fabricated pretext to kick him out. I dissaprove in principle, but it's their country - it's not like Argentinia signed a treaty with European countries where they pledge to respect freedom of movement, expression and whatnot :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

No Open Door policy for [..] priests

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That's right. You just closed the borders to priests. Or did that detail escape you in the waning of what little intellectual clarity you seem to have left? Who's next? Nurses? Comedians? French Texans? They all seem quite suspicious to me...

Anyway, mon pote, you seem to forget that freedom of expression is a mainstay of western civilisation, it is the right way to go, it has brought us nothing but progress and no other approach will ever be acceptable. Rant as you will.

Meanwhile, in other banning news: The Brit RC holocaust-denier gets kicked out of Argentina for his views, and returns to the UK. Will be be banned too?

http://www.godhatesfags.com/written/...lane-crash.pdf

lol, please allow them I don't want to miss out on this, does god hate dentists?

Hmmm I opened your link Fragony...


...It quotes Lev 18:23

He translates it as: Neither you shall lie with any beast

...I went to read the original-ish (Hellenistic Greek)

...καὶ πρὸς πᾶν τετράπουν οὐ δώσεις τὴν κοίτην σου εἰς σπερματισμόν, ἐκμιανθῆναι πρὸς αὐτό. καὶ γυνὴ οὐ στήσεται πρὸς πᾶν τετράπουν βιβασθῆναι, μυσαρὸν γάρ ἐστι...

...(And to all tetrapods you shall not give your bed in copulation...)

...It only bans us from doing tatrapods...

...(That is 4-legged creatures)...

...great news for fish-:daisy:ers everywhere :beam:

(Chickens are ok too...)

(...and snakes)

Well as it turns out all casualties are Turkish or American, RIP. It's a shame really these Phelbs would have found theirselves to be in pretty damn hostile territory, ah well I'll have to polish my shoes for a different occasion.

Yay they are coming to my town March 3rd for two protests. One we know why, the other it is a mystery

What kinda confuses me, why does nobody have the luminous idea to crack their skulls, nothing says I disagree with you like a good kick in the teeth. Protesting at a funeral, nobody would put up with that here.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

What kinda confuses me, why does nobody have the luminous idea to crack their skulls, nothing says I disagree with you like a good kick in the teeth. Protesting at a funeral, nobody would put up with that here.

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There's almost always police separating the groups.

Plus, we Americans are just more polite and enlightened (in that we let them speak and they haven't yet been beaten to death.)

This video may warm your heart though.

CR

Wanting to come here how to tell us how to live our lives, some nerve. There just wouldn't be enough police this country isn't friendly to religion.

Protesting at a funeral, nobody would put up with that here.

I was unsure when we had the topic on complete freedom of speech, but no one should be able to protest within ear shot of a family when thier burying thier loved ones imo. The height of insensitivity....

They it would almost be appealing to go protest at fred's funeral.... I wouldn't, but there would be a certain poetic justice to it...

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

They it would almost be appealing to go protest at fred's funeral.... I wouldn't, but there would be a certain poetic justice to it...

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Tempting but I'll leave that to absolutely disgusting people. They found out that only Turks and Americans got killed by the way. It's is a horrible tragedy, I get so terribly angry when I think of it and it's virtually impossible to piss me of.

http://www.godhatesfags.com/written/...lane-crash.pdf

EDIT: Removed hotlinked picture. BG

It fell right out of the sky, only 9 people dead, god must love the filthy Dutch and the godless Turks.

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

I was unsure when we had the topic on complete freedom of speech, but no one should be able to protest within ear shot of a family when thier burying thier loved ones imo. The height of insensitivity....

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Oh, they should have the right to try. The family/friends of the family/random passers-by should have the right to go and kick some :daisy:.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Plus, we Americans are just more polite and enlightened (in that we let them speak and they haven't yet been beaten to death.)

This video may warm your heart though.

CR

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Well, judging by the video this is exactly what Frag described, so Americans aren't different after all. Apparently the maker of the video is getting death threats because people think he is in the group.
That, too, sounds familiar. :juggle2: :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Well, judging by the video this is exactly what Frag described, so Americans aren't different after all. Apparently the maker of the video is getting death threats because people think he is in the group.
That, too, sounds familiar. :juggle2: :laugh4:

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I was being a bit sarcastic with the whole enlightened bit, since it seems to be the reverse of a favorite claim by some Europeans.

There's also videos of bikers - big guys who don't mess around - who've formed a group to protect funerals by blocking the protesters from view. They got right next to the WBC idiots and all I saw was one minor shove. That's a lot of self control.

CR

Hmmmm...looks like a horde of veterans from the veterans hospital are going to be at the capitol, along with a bunch of good ole boys, some bikers, support groups for deployed soldiers, a lot of students, some churches and my personal favorite, the very awesome gay militants. I think I may go and take pictures.

Well, it was all pretty uneventful as the media never actually bothered to go read the "protest permit" application at the state capitol, because if they did they would have discovered that it was all misdirection on the website and the protests were going on somewhere else.

We find this out when we go inside of the Capitol to check, and we also find out from the nice lady in the office that we won't be allowed to hold up our signs or go anywhere near the WBC because we had not applied for a "protest permit"

We go to the real location, there are cops everywhere, including building and overpasses, and there were 12 WBC people standing on the corner in a very busy intersection in a very bad part of town, with about 50 counter-protesters on the other corner. The cops came and told us not to yell or hold up our signs, they were cool about everything, and we watched in amusement as virtually everyone ignored these people.

Considering the part of town it was in, they either thought the WBC was homeless people looking for a handout (they took a corner where this is done all the time haha) or people in traffic just thought they were out for a candidate, or they couldn't read the signs because they were illiterate.

Nice to see everyone ignore these people, but I really wanted to see some militant homos whipped into a fury.....

Couldn't go to the one in Moore because I had stuff to do. I took some pictures but tbh they don't really show anything.

I do think they "protest permit-counter protest permit" thing is ridiculous, though. These people really have perverted the whole process

i thought this was for the Olympic swimmer Phelps.