Find me a home (now focusing on biblical Israel & the talmud)

Before saying that I am an islamphobe I will just admit it, yes I am pretty damn islamphobic and I don't think it's irrational. There interesting developments all over europe, just about everywhere the left is dead, especially in the Netherlands, finito, and all the more hysterical for it in their accusations, but. I am being serious here, what is going to happen. I don't blame muslims for the absolute idiocy of the left, but there seems to be this 'it's our turn now' among the right wing, but our muslims really don't deserve what some people are hinting at and I am worried, it isn't their fault it's all on the multicultural left imho. There is something creepy going on and I don't like it, it's below the surface but it's there. Am I really a leftie who is against leftist idiocy, sometimes I wonder, but I don't feel that much at home with the right anymore, I agree with their arguments but in many a case not why some make them. At the other side there are the people that are imho absolutely nuts, the lefties, the new aristocracy jealously guarding their priviliges. I really don't feel at home there and those that do should should see a shrink. I think I am growing too moderate.

if you need a home, the ATL is welcoming you... :yes:

Where the buffalo rome?

Welcome among us moderate nutters, you can attend our religious moderation ceremonies every friday at 12am. Have fun and enjoy your stay. :clown:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Before saying that I am an islamphobe I will just admit it, yes I am pretty damn islamphobic and I don't think it's irrational. There interesting developments all over europe, just about everywhere the left is dead, especially in the Netherlands, finito, and all the more hysterical for it in their accusations, but. I am being serious here, what is going to happen. I don't blame muslims for the absolute idiocy of the left, but there seems to be this 'it's our turn now' among the right wing, but our muslims really don't deserve what some people are hinting at and I am worried, it isn't their fault it's all on the multicultural left imho. There is something creepy going on and I don't like it, it's below the surface but it's there. Am I really a leftie who is against leftist idiocy, sometimes I wonder, but I don't feel that much at home with the right anymore, I agree with their arguments but in many a case not why some make them. At the other side there are the people that are imho absolutely nuts, the lefties, the new aristocracy jealously guarding their priviliges. I really don't feel at home there and those that do should should see a shrink. I think I am growing too moderate.

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Maybe you should write a blog about it.

edit, add:
On a more serious note. Being liberal and more left I can see where this is going. The political left in this country is going out of control, the monster from the right is starting to devour every bit of respect and tolerance there is. I'm currently not able to vote on any party.

Move to Oklahoma, the cost of living is cheap, we are not in a recession and the center of the state is a nice mix of liberal conservatives and conservative liberals. I will help pay your way and you can come over as a "guest worker," and my wife could set you up with one of her hawt bioengineer korean cousins.

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Before saying that I am an islamphobe I will just admit it, yes I am pretty damn islamphobic and I don't think it's irrational

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It probably is. I've done some research on the so-called Islamisation of the Netherlands, and there hardly is anything to fear. I've been able to make a prediction that in 2030...16 percent of the population of the Netherlands would be Islamic. Holy :daisy: that means that non-Muslims will make up 84 percent of the population (yes, I have basic math skills!). Hardly anything threatening, right?

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Originally Posted by Hax

It probably is. I've done some research on the so-called Islamisation of the Netherlands, and there hardly is anything to fear. I've been able to make a prediction that in 2030...16 percent of the population of the Netherlands would be Islamic. Holy :daisy: that means that non-Muslims will make up 74 percent of the population (yes, I have basic math skills!). Hardly anything threatening, right?

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Does that mean the remaining 10% will be neither Muslim nor non-Muslim?

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Originally Posted by Hax

It probably is. I've done some research on the so-called Islamisation of the Netherlands, and there hardly is anything to fear. I've been able to make a prediction that in 2030...16 percent of the population of the Netherlands would be Islamic. Holy :daisy: that means that non-Muslims will make up 74 percent of the population (yes, I have basic math skills!). Hardly anything threatening, right?

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the issue isnt how many there will be. the issue is how much influence they will have. and by the stuff i hear, they have a huge amount as of now.... :sweatdrop:

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Originally Posted by Hax

It probably is. I've done some research on the so-called Islamisation of the Netherlands, and there hardly is anything to fear. I've been able to make a prediction that in 2030...16 percent of the population of the Netherlands would be Islamic. Holy :daisy: that means that non-Muslims will make up 74 percent of the population (yes, I have basic math skills!). Hardly anything threatening, right?

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I don't know about your numbers there, and isnt it 16% already?

I think one of Frags problems isn't so much with the number of muslims, his problem is with the pandering the left does to a minority of miscreants who think they are entitled to immigrate to a country, refuse to assimilate and make their own rules while the rest of the public stands back and gasps at the double standard....then the right comes along and does a total 180 and takes sanctions too far, which punishes people who don't deserve it and enrages and fuels the miscreants as a result.

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I don't know about your numbers there, and isnt it 16% already?

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A stunning 5.8 in 2007.

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the issue isnt how many there will be. the issue is how much influence they will have. and by the stuff i hear, they have a huge amount as of now....

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To be honest, I think the Muslim federation in the Netherlands has way less influence than Israel.

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Does that mean the remaining 10% will be neither Muslim nor non-Muslim?

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Oh :daisy: -- Writing in a hurry isn't good. Also, I take back the "I have basic math skills" comment.

Funny you should express that concern Frag, because I fortold something similar a year or two ago, and everyone (including you) told me that I was nuts and paranoid. The attitude of the left hasn't really changed since then, their effect has just build up.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

some people give into their fears way to easily.

That is a classic liberal response everytime someone has a concern or disagrees with you. Always tell people they are afraid, so they will be afraid (ironic, huh?) of being branded with the stigma and just ignore it.
Pointing out a double standard and a social inbalance is not being afraid. It is simply being concerned with justice. Such an inbalance in favor of Christians would never be tolerated.

Yes the Islamic threat is overwhelming... these tiny percentages of our populations will rise up and destroy everyone else because us non muslims are incapable of defending ourselves..

Or alternatively not... im not worried...

Texas. Our brown people are less scary and they make better food.

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

Yes the Islamic threat is overwhelming... these tiny percentages of our populations will rise up and destroy everyone else because us non muslims are incapable of defending ourselves..

Or alternatively not... im not worried...

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I don't think anyone is afraid of that...or afraid at all Grizzly. I think there is just a little indignation over a social injustice. It is just not fair to the rest of society when one group has been so priviledged (and at the expense of other groups). Not to mention that radical elements of islam have been given a free ticket to operate in many places live Sweden, which is causing MUCH more than a little trouble (look back on the Sweden thread to see what I mean).

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Originally Posted by Hax

To be honest, I think the Muslim federation in the Netherlands has way less influence than Israel.

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TBH, i dont think so.
i find it funny that you now are saying that Palestinians carry a lot of influence in israel when just a few months ago you said how they had NO influence.

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Originally Posted by Hax

It probably is. I've done some research on the so-called Islamisation of the Netherlands, and there hardly is anything to fear. I've been able to make a prediction that in 2030...16 percent of the population of the Netherlands would be Islamic. Holy :daisy: that means that non-Muslims will make up 84 percent of the population (yes, I have basic math skills!). Hardly anything threatening, right?

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Are you factoring in the fact that most countries in Europe aren't meeting replacement rates for their own populations? If you factor in the increase in their population with the decrease in ours, I think you may find a different conclusion. That isn't to say that the European Muslim population won't peak - it will. The problem is that it will peak much later than ours.

Of course, I'm not unbiased in my views of the "threat" of Islam to western society. However, I think 16 percent is pretty much accurate, though it could be anywhere between 10% and 22%, I think. Taking all things into account, perhaps 16/17%, though.

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i find it funny that you now are saying that Palestinians carry a lot of influence in israel when just a few months ago you said how they had NO influence.

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I find it funny that you are now saying that I mentioned Palestine in this thread.

Also; Palestinian =/= Muslim

The vast vast vast majority of Muslims in Europe are liberal. Why? Because that's why they're here, because Europe is a tolerant place, for tolerant people.

And elements of the right is using are exactly the same tactics that the Nazis used to make people fear the Jews, against Muslims.

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Originally Posted by Subotan

The vast vast vast majority of Muslims in Europe are liberal. Why? Because that's why they're here, because Europe is a tolerant place, for tolerant people.

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Data. Let's have it. The firsthand testimony of Ayaan Hirsi Ali indicates that while there are moderates, the non-moderates aren't exactly in the "vast vasy vast" minority. In the minority, yes. But not in the "vast vast vast" minority.

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And elements of the right is using are exactly the same tactics that the Nazis used to make people fear the Jews, against Muslims.

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No, sorry. If you want an example of Nazi-esque propaganda in the modern age, watch Zeitgeist. Sure, elements of the extreme-right are making completely unreasonable criticisms, but if you take off the goggles you will find that most of those on the right who believe this to be a problem are reasonable enough about it.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

No, sorry. If you want an example of Nazi propaganda in the modern age, watch Zeitgeist. Sure, elements of the extreme-right are making completely unreasonable criticisms, but if you take off the goggles you will find that most of those on the right who believe this to be a problem are reasonable enough about it.

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Let's take a view from the other side, shall we?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL65dcC_UNM
(the link is german)

The mainstream concerned right is not using Nazi techniques. Full stop. Extreme-right parties are. Full stop.

:coffeenews:

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Originally Posted by Hax

I find it funny that you are now saying that I mentioned Palestine in this thread.

Also; Palestinian =/= Muslim

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ah. now i see. you said Muslim Federation. not muslims.
but is it not a fact that most palestinians are muslims?

also, you brought it up. you were the first to say "Israel"
but lets get the :daisy: off this side-topic before we get this thread closed.

I dunno Frag, how about Switzerland? Australia? New Zealand?

Given how wacky and skewed to the left European politics have become what did you expect would happen? It seems science doesn't stop at the great apes; every action having an equal an opposite reaction and all that.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

The mainstream concerned right is not using Nazi techniques. Full stop. Extreme-right parties are. Full stop.

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No worries, I understand you quite well.

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Find me a home

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Dude: Canada. Western Canada. It's America Lite - just enough socialism to be familiar to you (and not such a culture shock as the US would be), with the same "can-do", optimistic attitude as their southern neighbors. You'd fit right in, and they'd love your accent.

They are still arguing multiculturalism vs assimilationalism - they have been for decades - but (unknown to them) assimilationalism is winning; mostly because the only group that all groups there hate more than anything else, and which distain unites them, is America. They will all assimilate, rather than 'become' American. Anything other than that. :laugh4:

Plus, they're in much less danger of water shortage, so you can still enjoy your "rain-shower" there, and maybe even install sidewall waterjets, for a full-body experience.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

...Plus, they're in much less danger of water shortage, so you can still enjoy your "rain-shower" there, and maybe even install sidewall waterjets, for a full-body experience.

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Kukri:

You are starting to scare me. Next it will be talking about little tingling needles of water and...

Post CLOSED. SF

Who cares about immigration anyway?

Seriously. It's the economy, stupid ~;)

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Who cares about immigration anyway?

Seriously. It's the economy, stupid ~;)

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If the Dutch are anything like the Mexicans he won't take kindly to that.

I think something alot of people don't realise is half the reason muslims could become a large group perhaps even the largest some point in the distant future is in part because the dilution of christians to atheism, consider also that alot of these muslims that do come to europe are fairly liberal and your realise that there is nothing at all to worry about...

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

If the Dutch are anything like the Mexicans he won't take kindly to that.

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I'd rather deal with degenerate Catholics than degenerate Muslims any day of the week. And as you say, the food is better :idea2:

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

I'd rather deal with degenerate Catholics than degenerate Muslims any day of the week. And as you say, the food is better :idea2:

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The food is better? A life without a proper kebab is meaningless.

Brazil is a good option in this case. Actually, Brazil is a good option in any case. :laugh4:

Enjoy yourself on the beach and watch beautiful, scantily clad girls play beach volley. I mean, it's got to be a dream come true for any sports fan...

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

Yes the Islamic threat is overwhelming... these tiny percentages of our populations will rise up and destroy everyone else because us non muslims are incapable of defending ourselves..

Or alternatively not... im not worried...

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The threat of cultural relativism and blind multiculturalism is overwhelming. Dutch muslims are pretty relaxed, they hardly cause any trouble, not like in other European country's at least. Contrary to belief they hardly ask for anything safe a few provocers that shouldn't be treated as a conversation partner but should just be kicked out after laughing them in the face first. I really couldn't care less about muslims not integrating that is asking too much from them because we have no idea into what they should be integrating, we are way too confused about that ourselves. We are back at 1848, or close.

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

I'd rather deal with degenerate Catholics than degenerate Muslims any day of the week. And as you say, the food is better :idea2:

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I agreed. If the Kebab is your benchmark of cuisine I feel sorry for you HoreTore. Wow, meat and peppers? Two thousand years and that's the best they could do? I'd be pretty pissed off at the world to.

Well except the UK

New Orleans... the Amsterdam of America.


City Comparison.

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

I think something alot of people don't realise is half the reason muslims could become a large group perhaps even the largest some point in the distant future is in part because the dilution of christians to atheism.

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Uhm sorry what?
European atheists don't even make 10%
They are to blame for making more space for muslims so one day they will be a majority?
There is no connection between growing immigration of muslim population and a secular society.

eh... never mind.

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Originally Posted by Yoyoma1910

New Orleans... the Amsterdam of America.


City Comparison.

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Have a love hate relationship with Amsterdam, it is the coolest city on earth and people who disagree are wrong, obviously, it's still fun but it's losing it's soul. If you are there go at queensday, great fun biggest outdoor party on the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r_VZIGn6jc

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Originally Posted by Vuk

I don't think anyone is afraid of that...or afraid at all Grizzly. I think there is just a little indignation over a social injustice. It is just not fair to the rest of society when one group has been so priviledged (and at the expense of other groups). Not to mention that radical elements of islam have been given a free ticket to operate in many places live Sweden, which is causing MUCH more than a little trouble (look back on the Sweden thread to see what I mean).

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That liveleak video was one of the most biased things I've seen. Fair enough, most of it is true, but then Rosengård has been noted as a immigrant failure for about 20 years or something.

That Israel is viewed badly by one of the largest groups living there (namely Palestinians) and Israel has also been a target by the left for ages are not exactly surpricing (but still sad in how the actions are made).
The alliance between the atheist "I take any excuse to put up a riot"-left (they are somewhat common in Sweden) and teh muslims are also a nice sign on how strong and dangerous those "kill all infidels"-muslims are...

The politics of the Swedish Democrats are basically "if we kick out encurage emigration of all (bad) immigrants then everything will be better". One of the few things written not by vague words are that doing this will enable lowering the taxes and increase social welfare.

Most leading members were former members of more obvious racist parties aswell. They are basically riding the anti immigration right-wing populist parties wave going on in Europe atm and are quite small compared to thier counterparts and are attacking the wrong points on the actual integration issues, like that the many of the integration programs are crap (often entrepenours where the costumer (the state or communes) aren't checking them out properly).

Edit simply to add, it's basically showing the worst ghetto in the US and then claiming that this is how the entire US will look like in a few years if the democrats/republicans.

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Originally Posted by Fixiwee

Uhm sorry what?
European atheists don't even make 10%
They are to blame for making more space for muslims so one day they will be a majority?
There is no connection between growing immigration of muslim population and a secular society.

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Don't even make 10%? What are you on? Or are you confusing "christians" with "people registered with a church"? Like the situation is here, 80% of us are registered in the state church(due to laziness, membership scams, etc), however, every survey made in the last two decades or more have shown the percentage of people who call themselves christians to be somewhere around 20-30%. The same number I've seen in a lot of other european countries, like England.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

That liveleak video was one of the most biased things I've seen. Fair enough, most of it is true, but then Rosengård has been noted as a immigrant failure for about 20 years or something.

That Israel is viewed badly by one of the largest groups living there (namely Palestinians) and Israel has also been a target by the left for ages are not exactly surpricing (but still sad in how the actions are made).
The alliance between the atheist "I take any excuse to put up a riot"-left (they are somewhat common in Sweden) and teh muslims are also a nice sign on how strong and dangerous those "kill all infidels"-muslims are...

The politics of the Swedish Democrats are basically "if we kick out encurage emigration of all (bad) immigrants then everything will be better". One of the few things written not by vague words are that doing this will enable lowering the taxes and increase social welfare.

Most leading members were former members of more obvious racist parties aswell. They are basically riding the anti immigration right-wing populist parties wave going on in Europe atm and are quite small compared to thier counterparts and are attacking the wrong points on the actual integration issues, like that the many of the integration programs are crap (often entrepenours where the costumer (the state or communes) aren't checking them out properly).

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The really funny bit is that the large majority of immigrants coming to Sweden comes from Iraq. Our :daisy: up. Shows how caring the right-wingers are; kill people for fun, then run away from the consequences. Yes, responsibility is what the right is all about....

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Don't even make 10%? What are you on? Or are you confusing "christians" with "people registered with a church"? Like the situation is here, 80% of us are registered in the state church(due to laziness, membership scams, etc), however, every survey made in the last two decades or more have shown the percentage of people who call themselves christians to be somewhere around 20-30%. The same number I've seen in a lot of other european countries, like England.

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Okay I might be wrong.

But post a link as a prove please.
Because as far as I recall many people are Agnostic and not pure Atheists and there is a clear difference. I find it hard to belive that more then 10% are real Atheists in any of the european countries.

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Originally Posted by Fixiwee

Okay I might be wrong.

But post a link as a prove please.
Because as far as I recall many people are Agnostic and not pure Atheists and there is a clear difference. I find it hard to belive that more then 10% are real Atheists in any of the european countries.

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Whatever. The point was not religious, more specifically, not christian. There is a clear difference between agnosticism and atheism, but there's a clear difference between being agnostic or atheist and being religious too.

And I don't have any linkys, sorry, I read my news the proper way; from a newspaper. None of this newfangled "interwebs" nonsense for me!

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Whatever. The point was not religious, more specifically, not christian. There is a clear difference between agnosticism and atheism, but there's a clear difference between being agnostic or atheist and being religious too.

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Okay. But the argument was that this state of religiousness is enabling the growth of muslim minorities.
And I don't see a connection here.

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And I don't have any linkys, sorry, I read my news the proper way; from a newspaper. None of this newfangled "interwebs" nonsense for me!

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Well then I simply wont belive you, my good sir. :square:

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Originally Posted by Fixiwee

Okay. But the argument was that this state of religiousness is enabling the growth of muslim minorities.

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I wouldn't worry about that. Forget all the whining, there are still no more than 80.000 muslims in this country(pop:4,8 mill). I think it'll be quite some time before they're running the show....

The real problem, is that when people hear "immigrant", they immediately think "muslim". Even worse when it's "non-western immigrant". Of course forgetting the fact that christian eastern europe(including Russia), communist china and other eastern asian states, hindu india, christian south america and largely christian africa are all included in the term "non-western"...

Sorry what I meant was the drift from christianity to atheism (or agnostic) means that in comparison to the major religious group (christianity) muslim grows quickly... quicker than the influx of muslim immigrants and birth of muslim children

And this drift from christianity is likely to continue... meaning predictions of muslims being the major group aren't all that meaningful when you consider that the christian group combined with atheists and agnostics shall still be larger..

Unless your afriad of atheists and agnosts as well as muslims..

Personally i don't see the threat, sure a portion of them have some unfavourable views but they are a minority among thier own in our countrys as well as thier own being a minority this makes them pretty unthreatening...

Also the whole british sharia law thing is overblown, they only use iot if both parties agree and then it still has to fall within british law perfectly reasonable... and im fairly sure its something we have done for other faiths also..

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

Dude: Canada. Western Canada. It's America Lite - just enough socialism to be familiar to you (and not such a culture shock as the US would be), with the same "can-do", optimistic attitude as their southern neighbors. You'd fit right in, and they'd love your accent.

They are still arguing multiculturalism vs assimilationalism - they have been for decades - but (unknown to them) assimilationalism is winning; mostly because the only group that all groups there hate more than anything else, and which distain unites them, is America. They will all assimilate, rather than 'become' American. Anything other than that. :laugh4:

Plus, they're in much less danger of water shortage, so you can still enjoy your "rain-shower" there, and maybe even install sidewall waterjets, for a full-body experience.

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That's clearly not what I've been told about Vancouver, and I'm quite surprise that the idea of assimilationalism would even be mentioned in Canada.
If it's anything like Toronto and Ontario, then it's 100% multiculturalism with everyone doing is stuff in his own community. I'll be visiting Vancouver soon, can't wait to see how it is by myself :)

As for the topic itself, well, I don't know. The anti-islam rhetoric seems quite similar to the previous anti-left rhetoric used to bash anarchism, socialism and communism. I'm not seeing the two "threats" as similar, and even though I'm pretty progressive and left-winged, I can definitely see how Islam is an issue in western Europe. I for one don't think there's any place definitely better than Netherlands, and I don't advise you to go to Ontario: the simple sight of churches everywhere, and muslim people dressed like they would be in Saudi Arabia drives me completely nut.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Have a love hate relationship with Amsterdam, it is the coolest city on earth and people who disagree are wrong, obviously, it's still fun but it's losing it's soul. If you are there go at queensday, great fun biggest outdoor party on the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r_VZIGn6jc

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Well, there are some major differences between the two.

1) Pot is illegal
2) Prostitution is illegal.
3) It's a fairly inexpensive city.
4) Wooo... crime. eh.
5) We wouldn't have a "Queens Day," we would likely spend somewhere between 1 week to a month on it.

here's the wiki:

New Orleans


Anyway, it's set up more like a European city than most metropolitan regions in the U.S.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Shows how caring the right-wingers are; kill people for fun, then run away from the consequences. Yes, responsibility is what the right is all about....

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Advice for all: Please stop the generalised bashing. There are shades of opinion across the political spectrum - it is tantamount to trolling if one characterises an entire school of political thought so carelessly.

Thank you kindly.

:bow:

You could come and live up here in Yorkshire. We have the best currys on the planet. Granted there is a Mosque or six but, hey, the lassi is great as well. :book:

Did I mention Texas?

Texas, meh, new kid on the block. Texas is the Yorkshire of the USA. :balloon2:

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Texas, meh, new kid on the block. Texas is the Yorkshire of the USA. :balloon2:

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Are we talking about the terrier or the pudding?

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

Are we talking about the terrier or the pudding?

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I think it's a type of hotdog.

All three.

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

Also the whole british sharia law thing is overblown, they only use iot if both parties agree and then it still has to fall within british law perfectly reasonable... and im fairly sure its something we have done for other faiths also..

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The point is that it isn't reasonable, it isn't overblown. Not only has Sharia actually been introduced, but about the problems with it...let's just say so much for caring about women's rights from [certain viewpoints in the political spectrum that are on the other side of my own]...

Sharia law in a secular country should be no means be allowed. It's a shame for UK, period.

You would have guessed they would have learnt their lesson after offering shelter to all the muslim terrorist plaguing europe ten years ago, but it looks like no :no:

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

All three.

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Which one tastes the best?

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

The point is that it isn't reasonable, it isn't overblown. Not only has Sharia actually been introduced, but about the problems with it...let's just say so much for caring about women's rights from [certain viewpoints in the political spectrum that are on the other side of my own]...

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Louis nailed it for the hypocritical left last year. Race/Religion trumps gender everytime.

We should all be ashamed at this.

Not only has Sharia actually been introduced, but about the problems with it...let's just say so much for caring about women's rights from

They still have to wrok within British Law, British law doesn't allow discrimination...

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

That's clearly not what I've been told about Vancouver, and I'm quite surprise that the idea of assimilationalism would even be mentioned in Canada.
If it's anything like Toronto and Ontario, then it's 100% multiculturalism with everyone doing is stuff in his own community. I'll be visiting Vancouver soon, can't wait to see how it is by myself :)

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He doesn't mean reeeeeeeeealy northern California. He means Alberta or Manitoba, maybe Saskatchewan. Although with how much of a polluted cesspit Alberta is turning into, all the money in the world wouldn't get me to live there. Plus Ralph Klien is a douch.

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

Sharia law in a secular country should be no means be allowed. It's a shame for UK, period.

You would have guessed they would have learnt their lesson after offering shelter to all the muslim terrorist plaguing europe ten years ago, but it looks like no :no:

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Firstly, the United Kingdom is not a secular country. The head of state is also the head of the Church of England, and bishops sit in the legislature (House of Lords).

Second, we addressed EMFM's point last year in a long thread. The Sharia tribunals deal with parties that both agree to the arbitration and there have been exactly similar tribunals for the Jewish faith for many years.

I'm interested to know why there hasn't been a equivalent wave of outrage and pessimism at the recent brazen attempt by the Roman Catholics to subvert the fabric of state, by insidiously persuading the Prime Minister to overturn the Act of Settlement and thus allow papists to marry into the monarchy without affecting their right of succession. And they have terrorists, not to mention they breed faster and there's increasing numbers of 'em.

Now that's an alien religion's power grab.

:bounce:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Firstly, the United Kingdom is not a secular country. The head of state is also the head of the Church of England, and bishops sit in the legislature (House of Lords).

Second, we addressed EMFM's point last year in a long thread. The Sharia tribunals deal with parties that both agree to the arbitration and there have been exactly similar tribunals for the Jewish faith for many years.

I'm interested to know why there hasn't been a equivalent wave of outrage and pessimism at the recent brazen attempt by the Roman Catholics to subvert the fabric of state, by insidiously persuading the Prime Minister to overturn the Act of Settlement and thus allow papists to marry into the monarchy without affecting their right of succession. And they have terrorists, not to mention they breed faster and there's increasing numbers of 'em.

Now that's an alien religion's power grab.

:bounce:

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Yes, uh... I'll have the cake please.


And if you didn't bring enough, I suppose I'll have to go with the chicken.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Second, we addressed EMFM's point last year in a long thread. The Sharia tribunals deal with parties that both agree to the arbitration and there have been exactly similar tribunals for the Jewish faith for many years.

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No, you did not address it. Two things were not:

A) The Jewish faith is not quite the same. For example, find me this in the Jewish faith: "GOD decrees a will for the benefit of your children; the male gets twice the share of the female." [4:11]
B) Discrimination against women, as pointed out above, leaves the result that women can be forced into this court instead of a secular court, in some or even many cases with disastrous consequences on their finances, family, or personal lives.

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I'm interested to know why there hasn't been a equivalent wave of outrage and pessimism at the recent brazen attempt by the Roman Catholics to subvert the fabric of state, by insidiously persuading the Prime Minister to overturn the Act of Settlement and thus allow papists to marry into the monarchy without affecting their right of succession. And they have terrorists, not to mention they breed faster and there's increasing numbers of 'em.

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A) We have terrorists? :inquisitive:
B) Many Catholics, including myself and a priest who writes for the National Post, are against the move for various reasons.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Firstly, the United Kingdom is not a secular country. The head of state is also the head of the Church of England, and bishops sit in the legislature (House of Lords).

Second, we addressed EMFM's point last year in a long thread. The Sharia tribunals deal with parties that both agree to the arbitration and there have been exactly similar tribunals for the Jewish faith for many years.

I'm interested to know why there hasn't been a equivalent wave of outrage and pessimism at the recent brazen attempt by the Roman Catholics to subvert the fabric of state, by insidiously persuading the Prime Minister to overturn the Act of Settlement and thus allow papists to marry into the monarchy without affecting their right of succession. And they have terrorists, not to mention they breed faster and there's increasing numbers of 'em.

Now that's an alien religion's power grab.

:bounce:

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Although I can see the worry about female Muslims being coerced into these tribunals by their male family memebers, and thus cheated out of their parents inheritnence. I do not see that as the driving force behind this dissaproval of the courts, rather I reckon it to be tribalism, the waving of women's right (in general) is nothing more than a stick for certain sectors of society to dash about, in the hope of stiring anti-muslim sentiment.

This of coarse does not dissavow the genuine fear that some women are going to get a bad turn of it in these courts. What should happen, though I doubt it will, is a very open and very public discourse on the Muslim faith and its role, if there is one, in Britain. Muslims must be able to acceot this scrutiny in order to assuage the widespread dislike and fear of thier community. But likewise those who appose them must be able to stop frothing at the mouth for a while and certain news outlets must stop printing sensationalist pap.

If this was allowed to happen, then we may be able to judge these courts with a more informed view?

Oh and BTW, I am so pleased that the one tru and universal Church has reclaimed England, once again may we all take communion togther whilst listening to the mass in Latin and giving a large tithe of national wealth yearly to the Holy See.

I can't see the overturning of the Act of Settlement to be a good thing - it will only cause problems, and I say this as a Catholic. There are also members of the clergy who appear to be opposed to this. The only way the Act of Settlement can be overturned is if the monarch ceases to be the head of, or involved in, the Church of England.

If that happens, His Royal Highness The Duke of Bavaria, by the Grace of God, for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories King, Head of the Commonwealth, etc.

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"GOD decrees a will for the benefit of your children; the male gets twice the share of the female." [4:11]

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:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Still peddling the same old :daisy: eh Mars , such a hard one to explain isn't it .
Unless of course you put it in context like how its talking about bequests to children , bequests they will recieve on reaching adulthood , at the time when they are able to get married , you know when the female recieves money and the male has to pay money . So the equivalent in Jewish law according to "God" would be the bit about doling out the dosh according to the needs of the recipients.:idea2:
Still I suppose both are better than the old traditional "christian" primogenture crap where all that matters to scoop the jackpot is that you are the eldest male...like Britain still has with the monarchy

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Discrimination against women

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Would that be like the "modesty guard" who beat the hell out of Jewish women in Israel for violating their religious law?

WB Tribes. :surrender2: :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

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Hello sailor

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Unless of course you put it in context like how its talking about bequests to children , bequests they will recieve on reaching adulthood , at the time when they are able to get married , you know when the female recieves money and the male has to pay money .

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I've honestly read this three times trying to get any sense out of it, so I'll just go with what I presume you're trying to say.

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If No Will Is Left*

[4:11] GOD decrees a will for the benefit of your children; the male gets twice the share of the female*.

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It is quite clear Tribes. You can locate the whole verse for yourself if you wish.

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So the equivalent in Jewish law according to "God" would be the bit about doling out the dosh according to the needs of the recipients.

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Which doesn't specifically discriminate against women. :idea2:

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Still I suppose both are better than the old traditional "christian" primogenture crap where all that matters to scoop the jackpot is that you are the eldest male...like Britain still has with the monarchy

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Which, of course, still happens to the average Christian family...:dizzy2:

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Would that be like the "modesty guard" who beat the hell out of Jewish women in Israel for violating their religious law?

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Yes, the modesty guard which has been prosecuted in Israel unlike, say, in Jordan where honour killings are completely legal.

EDIT: :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::lau gh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

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It is quite clear Tribes. You can locate the whole verse for yourself if you wish.

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What part of "context" is it that you don't understand?
It ain't hard ......read 4 not just part of 4

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Which doesn't specifically discriminate against women

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:dizzy2: Would you like a breakdown of which of the 613 laws discriminate against women ?

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Which, of course, still happens to the average Christian family

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Well bugger me sideways I coud have sworn you mentioned the laws of succesion and the "christian" church .

See what I mean mods, same old :daisy: again and again with the same old :daisy: that spew out the same crap again and again about Muslims just as they used to about the Jews.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

See what I mean mods, same old :daisy: again and again with the same old :daisy: that spew out the same crap again and again about Muslims just as they used to about the Jews.

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Right, this is idiotic. I shouldn't have bothered at all, but hey, you keep with the insults. I've read the entire part four, I know what it is about. Thanks.

:wall: Just stay at home Fragony. Your country may have problems, but at least they are your problems.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Firstly, the United Kingdom is not a secular country. The head of state is also the head of the Church of England, and bishops sit in the legislature (House of Lords).

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Right, if we are to follow this line of thinking, France and Turkey are the only two european secular countries. Now, despite not being secular countries, most western european states kind of stated that civil law > religious law.
If you personnally think that it's okay to accept Sharia law in a democratic, progressive, liberal country, well then, let's agree to disagree ;)

Thanks for pointing out my error though, I too often tend to think that secularism is widely spread.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Second, we addressed EMFM's point last year in a long thread. The Sharia tribunals deal with parties that both agree to the arbitration and there have been exactly similar tribunals for the Jewish faith for many years.

I'm interested to know why there hasn't been a equivalent wave of outrage and pessimism at the recent brazen attempt by the Roman Catholics to subvert the fabric of state, by insidiously persuading the Prime Minister to overturn the Act of Settlement and thus allow papists to marry into the monarchy without affecting their right of succession. And they have terrorists, not to mention they breed faster and there's increasing numbers of 'em.

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I don't really care about what religion we're talking about. People can practice their damn religion in private. Letting them use some outdated fairy tale book to make their own law should be a big no.

Oh, and cut the Royal family members' heads, or send them into exile. Monarchy ought to disappear with religion. Primogenitur is, as Tribesman pointed out, nothing but crap.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Would you like a breakdown of which of the 613 laws discriminate against women ?

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please.

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Originally Posted by hooahguy

please.

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I'm not sure if this is what Tribesman is talking about, but it deals with the issue of legal descrimination in Israel all the same.

Quite interesting.

http://newhumanist.org.uk/511