HRE campaign focus points

It's interesting, I have trundled along in a HRE campaign through to 1112. I seem to be doing okay. I blitzed Denmark and Venice on my first turn, capturing both. Capturing the latter started an ongoing war with the Italians who have since 'moved' off shore. Am slowly building up my navy (I now have 4 ships south of Venice with another coming out of Denmark soon) and am now starting to experience real cash shortages.

The Italians did bestow me earlier a nice reward for capturing their king and prince when taking Milan, Tuscany, and Genoa, but since then they have turned stuffy and no longer proffer me any handy cash refunds. The French in the mean time decided to attack me when I was weak and bloated, retrieving Burgandy from me. This caused me to hire some gunslingers and I walked them over eventually taking Isle de France, Champagne, Flanders, Toulouse, Provence, and Burgandy back as well in my search for vengence. The French now took to stabbing the English again, and reside in Britany, Normandy, Anjou, and Aquitaine. I am watching them carefully as they tried to have a go at Toulouse twice now, but they didn't fare so well, with my peasants and rabble tossing theirs out in a nearly even battles.

I am slowly attempting to shore up my rear guard, as the Polish and the Hungarians have been busy sparring with the Byz, but currently mostly peasants guard my borders of Austria and Bohemia. I have moved a small force into Franconia to try and forestall any attempts by my neighbors to liberate the local rebels.

I am also concerned with my tech also as I still am using only spearmen and archers, though I see better coming eventually, though buildings are now slow to come by. I did just take Norway a few turns earlier, with Sweden coming some 15 years earlier (they were very unrestful with all those unbribable vikings to the north). Once I can get trade going, I'm sure things will be better.

Any other suggestions or things to keep in mind?

Thanx in advance,

GA

Apologies if they are horribly obvious, but my suggestions are as follows:

- Try really hard to ally with the English. Send a princess.
- Crack out the Swabians as soon as possible. They are staunch, and will steamroll anything on foot in Early. Ditto Huscarles (although you might find that they ruin the game for you as they're just too good).
- Resist the temptation to build barques and go straight for Caravels. You'll need their defensive capabilities to protect your trade.
- Keep an eye on any of the Russian factions that have access to the Northern seas. If they spam Boyars, these guys can turn out to be a real problem, especially if they're royal sons.

It's been a while since I played the HRE but from what you tell here, you seem to be quite settled actually. So build farming in the lucrative provinces (Provence, Sweden etc.), try to create trade and maybe even gain a ceasefire with the Italians (you did expel them to their islands yes?).
Border garrisons of spears and archers are ok but keep an armored contingent nearby just in case. tbh I'm surprised the Hungarians haven't come for you yet.

Sounds like a fun campaign.

I of the Storm posted

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So build farming in the lucrative provinces (Provence, Sweden etc.), try to create trade and maybe even gain a ceasefire with the Italians (you did expel them to their islands yes?).

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I just tried that(up to 1117 now), but they turned me down. A bit annoying that. Would really like to land on their Island and wipe them out, though not sure where they'd re-emerge. I hold most of their original provinces (Genoa, Milan, Tuscany, Venice).


Roark posted

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Crack out the Swabians as soon as possible. They are staunch, and will steamroll anything on foot in Early. Ditto Huscarles (although you might find that they ruin the game for you as they're just too good).

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Sorry to spoil the party:oops:, it's a Vanilla MTW game. GA, expert.

Roark posted

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Resist the temptation to build barques and go straight for Caravels. You'll need their defensive capabilities to protect your trade.

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At the moment I'm saving money, but I will follow this advice later, though I need to build the next ship related building for that.

It's a slow process as I am trying to slowly build up my fleets (have 5 ships now, 1 near Denmark) troop up so my backside facing Eastward is not too weak, and lowly tech up (In Isle de France and Tyrolia at the moment as these are more advanced for armor).

I noticed that I'm tied for points in the GA race, with the Alomonds in first (14 points), I'm tied with English for second (12 points each). Wondering if shedding some provinces is a good idea, I did this earlier with Saxony and another when I was struggling to hold everything together in the beginning.
I am also considering knocking the French further along as they like to keep attacking me:smash:.

The pope has just remerged, yikes:thumbsdown:, has quite the feudal knights and what not. Will be a lot more difficult to knock him off the next time:beam:. Doing the crusades for him will be a priority at some point as the Spanish have already launched one headed for Antioch, not sure if it will get there or not as the Spanish don't seem to have much of a fleet. I don't feel very religious at the moment, having a hard enough time making ends meet and keeping my population content, never mind happy:sweatdrop:.

I have played a few more years forward. The Hungarians are slowly getting ready for something, peace may no longer be on the cards soon to the east.

I am slowly building some more soldiers (spearmen, a few men at arms, and archers) and doing smaller farming (the 20%s) and mines (rather than the bigger farm upgrades, one exception was in Flanders) so that I can get the cheaper investments in first and hold onto some cash (not much, some 4-5k at the moment). Trade is slowly getting bigger, Venice has some 1400 (that's the largest province as Denmark and Sweden have only 3 ships nearby and their merchant houses are at the first level, while Venice has 4 ships and the next higher level building). My loyalty rates are still not very high, might want to consider building some churches in turns to raise the happiness levles (religion, opiate of the masses:juggle2:).

I think I will continue holding off expanding and try not to attack unless I am provoked (like before when the French kept hitting me, and the pope excommed me when I retaliated after getting annoyed time and again). Should I try and get spies into the mix soon too, initially perhaps start pumping out alternately spies and ships from some provinces? So many decisions:whip:, it's a real juggling act:juggle2:! The spies help with keeping the riff raff out as well as lifting happiness, yes?

Spies help with countering assassins and spies. Not sure about happiness. Build small buildings, like 20% farming everywhere, towers and other 2 turn buildings. Will get you loyalty+ traits for your king and governors.

As for the pope-problem, see this thread and try to pull it off:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=100430

You really should farm almost everywhere. Farming is more or less the major source of income for the HRE. Especially farm in Flanders! And build your trade centering around that province. It's your cashcow #1. Really. I could yield something like 3000+ florins with 80% farming and a proper trade network with Flanders alone!
If you're excommed anyway and loyality still holding, why not knocking out the french, push to the pyrenees and meanwhile fortify the east? Or conquer Naples and Sicily. Score some victories, man. You're the Reich!

Yes, I searched and read through the spy related posts concerning happiness (population loyalty is probaby a better label) and yes that will help. Realized it will take a while before I can get there as the castles each take 12 years to build:wall::sweatdrop:, and then the brothel comes after that (I have built two pubs already). I seem destined to keeping a lot of peasants around, though I suppose I could spam out more woodsmen as their upkeep is lower and I can build them in both Sweden and Norway, which I both currently have.

Progress report

I have preceded to the year 1127, and won a great victory in Toulouse. The Argonese decided to add to my agony (or victories) and attacked with a far lesser number of reemergent troops, but they were much better valored and leveled (try feudal foot knights againist spearmen sometime). Fortunately a few enemy siege engines (which can't move) and regular royal knights helped (as well as my own peasants who disappeared into the woods). I lost over 1100 men to the enemy's 350 plus, but it was worth it by the end of the battle. The next turn I brought in more hardened recruits with better armor and a better general. They easily held in the next battle with much better kill rates, though I can see the Argonese possibly trying again as they still have a fair number of troops left as the Spanish seem to have deposed them from some territory.

I also won an earlier battle in Flanders where the English and the French together attempted to roust me from my emerging trading empire (it now seems to closing in on the rival trading port of Venice, even though the neighboring ports near Flanders don't trade with me). Luckily a nice handy starting defensive position adjacent to woods on either side:idea2: meant that the enemy cav members couldn't approach my armies easily and enemy archers attempting to cover enemy foot soldiers were useless in the woods. If they tried funneling into the middle open meadow, I quickly cut them down by arrow or sword:smash:. This earlier battle was more decisive as the tech on each side was equal at that time (I have better troops there now, though some have been diverted to Toulouse now).

I am attempting to turtle, but everyone seems to be chomping at the bit to attack me. No wonder playing the HRE is such a challenge:beam:!

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Originally Posted by gaijinalways

I am attempting to turtle, but everyone seems to be chomping at the bit to attack me. No wonder playing the HRE is such a challenge:beam:!

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Welcome to the hostile world of the Roman Empire. :2thumbsup:

You are coming close to the point when any faction sharing a border with will attack as soon as possible.

I have played quite a few HRE campaign in the past (not recently since I am a bit lazy when it comes to 3 battles a turn) and the best you can do is always to look for opportunities to shorten your borders and stop to re-build your low-tech armies each time you can. For instance, Aquitaine-Toulouse is a nice line to hold for you especially since once you get those two you can keep your front limited to two provinces each time you progress (Navarre-Aragon; Castille/Valencia; Cordoba/Leon). If you can't hold the Aquitaine-Toulouse line, your enemy will be able to strike at Brittany, Anjou, Burgundy and Provence. You might think that a counter-attack will push them back but it much easier to defend than to attack when you have low-tech troops and you are doomed to be in the Pope's black book at the moment. Same principles can be applied on all front but do no neglect the risk of invasion by sea.

Regarding units to use, I would suggest to go for militia seargents, feudal seargents and mounted crossbowmen. Archers are useful but expensive to maintain. Feudal men-at-arm are nice agaisnt spear but militia sergeants can do the job if used properly, have the ap bonus and fare better against light cavalry. Maintenance cost for feudal seargent is ok and they are much more reliable than vanila spearmen. Mounted crossbowmen are priceless since they can replace most of your archers, chase enemy archers and routers. They lack any serious punch hand-to-hand but unless the enemy has tons of cavalry, your RK should be enough. Of course, mounted seargents are very useful for obvious reasons since they are your first available standard cavalry (no holibar or horsemen for you). Huscarl and swabian swordmen are nice but they cost a lot for an HRE budget. The viking unit that any faction can build in DK, Sweden and Norway with just a fort with moat is nice if you can get a few of those (do not upgrade to a keep in those provinces before having improved your fort).

Best of lucks

I am producing feudal seargents now, seems to be enough to pack a punch. Still have some older unarmored units floating around, though they help out in pinches. Haven't gotten crossbows yet, still in 1158. I have expanded quite a bit by bribery and acccident. Bribed Sardina, Livonia, Lithuania, Prussia, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland. The other places..

I took your advice to heart and decided to take Anjou to help my borders :idea2:(this after turtling for some 12 years or so to beat a pope warning). Attacked and got a warning from the pope. tried to take Anjou, couldn't and retreated before the excom came. Then went after the English, heard nothing from the Pope, as I pushed the English out of Wessex and Mercia.

Suddenly, the Pope invades Tuscany. Sorry Pope, nothing personal, but you messed with the wrong guy:smash:! I went and cleaned the Pope off the pennisula (the Sicilians had been wiped out). Went back to hitting the French, after I had beefed up my forward lines near the Polish and the Hungarians. Just took Anjou and Aquitane, will probably decide which one province to leave the French in. Just also did in the Italians, they decided to attack me after I bribed Sardina (they were holed up in Corsica).

So, I am sitting pretty, have 39 provinces, some money in the bank, trying to get the Byz to agree to a cease fire, other than that, trade is good. I currently hold 1 Ireland, 2 Scotland, 3 Wales, 4 Mercia, 5 Wessex, , 6 Flanders, 7 Champagne, 8 Ile de France, 9 Burgandy, 10 Toulouse, 11Provence, 12 Aquitane, 13 Anjou, 14 Lorraine, 15 Swabia, 16 Switzerland, 17 Tyrolia, 18 Saxony, 19Brandenberg, 20 Denmark, 21 Sweden, 22 Norway, 23Livonia, 24Lithunania, 25 Prussia, 26 Bavaria, 27Bohemia, 28 Austria, 29 Franconia, 30 Venice, 31 Tuscany, 32 Papal Lands, 33 Rome, 34 Naples, 35Sicily, 36 Genoa, 37 Tuscany, 38 Milan, and 39 Sardina.

The Spanish are big (all the GA crusades for me are gone, wah:wall:) , but I lead 58 points to the Byz's 44 on GA points (the Spanish are around 41).

So I am wondering what to do next. I hope to just keep building, but I will have to see what my neighbors 'want me' to do.

Well I would say that the most obvious options are:

- Northumbria so that you do not need to keep garrison in Mercia and Scotland;
- Brittany, same reason but for Anjou and Aquitaine;
- Normandy to secure Flanders;
- Corsica if the remaining Italian ships are bugging you;
-Poland, Silesia and Pomerania (you will need to attack the Polish but some of those provinces are GA objectives and will help reduce the number of provinces to garrison). After that I would try to go for Kiev and Volhodina (never can remember that province's name - is the poor strip of land immediately East of Poland) and wait for the Golden Horde there. It all depends who go Kiev. If it is owned by the Byz, it can be a tough nut to crack if the Byz have their usual 9 stars princes.

Basically I think that you've pretty much won the game unless you do something silly (for instance there is no reason to start crusades now, if you still have crusade markers you them for safe target and do not build any new ones).

From a more general point of view, I would suggest to upgrade you agriculture every time you can afford (even in poor provinces to get your king the V&V). Trade is nice but there is a good chance that in few years time nobody will trade with you because you'll be at war with everyone (whether you want it or not).

Regarding faction that are almost dead but that you want to keep alive, I would suggest that the best place to keep them blocked is a province that has only one border with yours and where they cannot build any ship (because the faction is broke or the province landlocked). If the faction still has more than a few ships, I would suggest to eradicate it, it will save you the trouble for chasing their ships for ages with your trade disrupted. They will not come back as long as you keep 120% loyalty in all the provinces that they ever had (the Pope will come back whatever you do so no need to put a massive garrison in its former holdings, it will just increase the amount of troops he will come back with. The best option for the Pope is usually to let him rot in the Papal States with an army big enough to avoid rebels appearance but weak enough to be disregarded for all other purposes.

Finally, to face the GH, you will basically need Chivalric sergeants and halberdiers (beware of their low morale, monastery or chapter house required for the province where you build them), arbalesters and some cavalry to chase Mongol archers (mounted X-bows are not good enough; mounted sergeants are a minimum). Do not chase Mongol archers in woods, they could butcher you cavalry there.

Hope it helps

A few points to consider,

I agree with you that, leaving factions in land locked provinces is better, but one problem is where factions reemerge. I accidentally eliminated the French, and now I'm not sure where they will reemerge (I intended to simply trim them down so they wouldn't be a bother for a while, but things got out of hand). (so I took Aquitaine, britay, normandy)

Hence Northumbria is okay for the English at the moment. Incidentally, I lost Wessex to the rebels as well, don't know how that happened. I won a big battle that turn, so I will let it stay with the rebels for the moment. The Italians were eliminated, but they're back on Corsica, but I'm busy trying to crush the Byz.

It's tough as I don't have xbows yet, except for some xbow cavs. Even so, i drove them around a bit and raged their areas, tking Constantinople, Greece, and Bulgaria from them. Actually the Hungarians and the Polish serve a purpose, serving as a buffer zone and keeping the Byz away from me except near Lithuania and the provinces I just took. The Turks are also giving the Byz some problems, now acting as a buffer east of Constantinople. They crusaded aganist the Byz into Nicaea, though wait until they find out that most of that surrounding area is becoming Catholic (my bishops have been busy), they may not like the locals getting roudy.

I have reduced the Spanish to whimpering with the Egyptians and the Alomonds having reemerged in the midst of their provinces in Northern Africa, and I can see rebellions in several other places (a failed crusade didn't help). They do still have several provinces, but they are much weaker now (still tough, my last regular battle in Navarre with them was rough:sweatdrop:, with about even losses on both sides).

As to the Mongols, I think I will let someone else face the horde, as that will give me time to tech up and bring my farming further along. It's very true, the peace doesn't last long (I'm way ahead on GA points now, so I can afford not taking any more provinces at the moment).

Yes, crusading is a possibility again, but I don't have to do it except for entertainment. One persistent problem is the Pope, who now has come back for the 5th time in the Papal Staes and Napoli, a little bigger each time. He is rather annoying, those grand inquisitors:idea2: would come in handy about now:smash:. Good battles, but I don't seem to get any ransom for him, quite the shame:beam:.

Well, I do not see why you are so reluctant to get rid of a faction.
As long as your keep 120% loyalty in all your provinces you will never see them again (unless some of their old provinces are occupied by the AI but that will most of the time be the AI's problem then). Normally two units of peasants and watchtowers are enough to avoid any surprise (except for some provinces like Livonia, Scotland or Portugal that are notoriously rebellion-prone). You also need to make sure that your faction leader is connected to all your provinces by land or sea so be careful of those rogue ships that just move around to mess with your communication line. At first glance, I would say that the penalty for not being connected with your faction leader is probably something like 50%. Once your kingdom is huge, stop using your king as a general just to avoid the risk that he gets isolated. Especially do not use one of the AI's silliest move that involves attacking by sea a provinces without port (for instance Ireland), even if the provinces has a port this remains a no-go since the port may be destroyed when you storm the keep (if you do get in that position, bribe the garrison to keep the infrastructure intact - if there is just a few guys in the keep, an assassin can achieve the same result, less expensive but it takes longer). Even if a faction does not have any cash left, it will keep getting heirs and will eventually have an army entirely made of RK. They are not to hard to deal with but can be an annoyance if all the heirs have v&v such as pride, killer instinct, etc.

Keeping dying faction on life support to provide you with princesses might be an idea but since you play the HRE, you will always have a faction leader whatever happens. On top of that you will have a very hard time getting them to accept any marriage proposal that you would make since you'll be at war with those factions.

The Pope will keep coming back and each time he will have more troops. If he shows up in one provinces a good way to deal with him is to abandon the province first, the counter-attack the next round, win and let him run away to the keep. You will have downsized his army a great deal and he will no longer be a threat. Of course you will be excommunicated but it's not that bad. If I have to chose a province to keep him, I would chose the Papal State since it is not a GA goal and does not produce any great income (title is nice but there as many other that also give an extra star). You cannot get rid of the Pope with assassins and inquisitor. If the Pope is assassinated or burnt, a new one will be elected and no result will ensue. On the other hand, it's a good way to put an end to your excommunication. Finally, I will add that if you are highly motivated, you can fully eradicate the Pope each time he comes back just to train your princes. Usually he comes back with high tech troops but with too many catapults and no command star so that the battle can be won rather easily (especially if you uses loads of arbs for an obvious purpose). I did it once and got a nice family of field expert specialists but it is a rather time consuming process, especially one you are at war on other fronts already.

Goes without saying that it's of course entirely up to you to choose the way ahead that looks the most entertaining to you. As far as I am concerned, I my long-term goal is often to have all Europe in black (except the Papal States of course …) with Constantinople, Kiev/Novgorod, Aquitaine/Toulouse (or Navarra/Argon or Cordoba or Morocco) as my border provinces … Makes four or five provinces to protect from the "barbarians" and the rest can be guarded by peasants (with an adequate army at hand to send back the Pope to the Papal States if need be) . It does not mean that it's the only possible way (crusade before 1205 can be tempting but I always find them to expensive and difficult to hold for long when playing the HRE) but one of the central idea when playing the HRE is IMHO to always look if the addition of one or several provinces increases or reduces the number of provinces to guard.

Best of luck for the remainder of your campaign.

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Well, I do not see why you are so reluctant to get rid of a faction.
As long as your keep 120% loyalty in all your provinces you will never see them again (unless some of their old provinces are occupied by the AI but that will most of the time be the AI's problem then). Normally two units of peasants and watchtowers are enough to avoid any surprise (except for some provinces like Livonia, Scotland or Portugal that are notoriously rebellion-prone). You also need to make sure that your faction leader is connected to all your provinces by land or sea so be careful of those rogue ships that just move around to mess with your communication line. At first glance, I would say that the penalty for not being connected with your faction leader is probably something like 50%.

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I seem to still get remergences on expert level regardless of the loyalty ratings. I always check to make sure my province loylty ratings are 120% and above, but I've still had remerging factions in some very unlikely places:furious3:.

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The Pope will keep coming back and each time he will have more troops. If he shows up in one provinces a good way to deal with him is to abandon the province first, the counter-attack the next round, win and let him run away to the keep. You will have downsized his army a great deal and he will no longer be a threat.

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Yeah, I seem to be 'lucky', the pope keeps dying on the battlefield:smash:.

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Of course you will be excommunicated but it's not that bad

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The bad thing is that all your loyalty ratings in your provinces take a hit, so it can mean less income and a bigger struggle to keep things afloat. Also, any Christian faction not at war with you will usually hurry to attack the 'infidels' to appease the Pope:wall:!

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If I have to chose a province to keep him, I would chose the Papal State since it is not a GA goal and does not produce any great income (title is nice but there as many other that also give an extra star).

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You're right, but he doesn't seem to want it.

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You cannot get rid of the Pope with assassins and inquisitor. If the Pope is assassinated or burnt, a new one will be elected and no result will ensue. On the other hand, it's a good way to put an end to your excommunication.

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Sounds good to me (see above comment on the woes of excommunication):idea2:!

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Finally, I will add that if you are highly motivated, you can fully eradicate the Pope each time he comes back just to train your princes. Usually he comes back with high tech troops but with too many catapults and no command star so that the battle can be won rather easily (especially if you uses loads of arbs for an obvious purpose). I did it once and got a nice family of field expert specialists but it is a rather time consuming process, especially one you are at war on other fronts already.

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Hmm, that seems to be happening already as the lapses between Popes seem to be shorter and shorter.

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Usually he comes back with high tech troops but with too many catapults and no command star so that the battle can be won rather easily (especially if you uses loads of arbs for an obvious purpose).

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Actually, he's coming with fairly high command stars (5-7) and mostly feudal knights, some foot troops, and a quite a few archers. Killing off the knights takes the most time, and they are dangerous as they are very quick to attack any isolated units that I have. These feudal knights will attack either after regouping or after trying to lead foot units away from their brothers in arms.

In my last battle, there were also rebel troops (I have upped the spies in the provinces the Pope usually lands in). I was sandwiched in the middle later, with the rebels sometimes helping out, sometimes attacking me. I mistakenly thought I had a small unit of Italian soldiers routed (down from 100 to 21), but they and some hobilers attacked. Unluckily, I had let all my footmen drift away to keep an eye on the Pope's knights and my 2 units of archers got stomped, though they did lead the hobs into a trap eventually by fleeing back toward my men. I also used my xbow cavs to good result, using them to knock off archers, though many of mine later got killed (exhausted ponies, they were). Related with my last problem, I have tried to build more archer and horse farms for training more xbow cavs until regular xbows become available. Still haven't received any yet, but they are available in 1205. I think I'm in the late 1180s now, and patiently waiting for xbows and arbs.

My bigger problem now is trying to balance the budget, think I need to go on a war tour and trim my enemy troops and mine down while reaping the pleasure of seized booty:yes:! Hopefully I will have some emerging rebels who will be willing to trade with me and my tarnished reputation:beam:.

Thanks for all the advice so far Jxrc!

Sounds like a plan. I've been enjoying your campaign update so far. Keep it up!:2thumbsup:

Been on vacation this week, and autoresolving some battles made the years go by quicker (much as I like the battles). I'm in the year 1205 now, with 40k plus in the bank, building some war tech buildings again and should soon see xbows and arbs fluttering out (which will help with distant killing power:2thumbsup:).

I swept through with a decent army with very few mercs (mostly mercs that were already in use) stripping a lot of Spanish provinces on the Iberian pennisula. The Byz are still being attacked as we speak, and I have ousted them from Serbia, Kiev, Crimera. I am currently sieging Khazar now and plan to supplant their other provinces (Georgia and Trebizond) nay one in Eastern Europe (Volhynia) with rebels. They have wasted some of their troops in Trebizond attacking Constantinople, which I've now held for some time. The Hungarians and the Italians also met their demises, leaving rebels in their places ( I don't know why, those jedhi knights tend to get knocked off:wall::smash:).

I've left the Polish intact in 3 provinces, the Argonese (though rebels are laying waste to them as we speak) in one. The Alomonds disappeared again, the Egyptians hold only Egypt (fitting that) and the English are still hunkered down in Northumbria. So only the Turks remain anything close to a threat.

I am far away ahead on GA points (have some 110 to the Byz's 64), and have yet to go on a crusade. Mostly because I've been busy taking the Pope down off and on. I plan to turtle for a while now and build up some troops to replace the ones I've lost,as well as building more farms as Jxrc suggested as trading is not always the most stable income, though the rebels seem to be better trading partners than most of the other factions:beam:. who sometimes turn on a player's faction easily enough.

I may plan to take over Kiev and Moldavia later just to provide another land connection to Constantinople, but otherwise I'm just enjoying my tech growth in my first HRE campaign. As some people have noted, the beginning years are the hardest, though often the HRE seems to make enemies easily with so many borders and no coastal provinces at the start. The hardest thing to do is be patient as once you have secured some coastal provinces for both trading and ship building, you just need to hang on. Sometimes giving up interior provinces temporarily is a good tactic as they are less valuable to your future plans as well as usually much lower income producers.

If it's 1205 already, you shouldn't go to Khazar. :no: Get Kiew and fortify. It won't be long before the Horde appears...

I would concur and say that you are a bit behind schedule if you plan to hold on to Khazar when the GH shows up. To be able to do that you need, IMHO, several stacks of chivalric sergeants and a arbalesters together with a substantial amount of horses to chase archers. That is only effective if you can beat the GH in all provinces where it appears. If you are lucky they might all arrive in Khazar but most of the time they show up in several provinces (Khazar, Georgia, Volga-Bulgaria and/or Armenia IIRC). If you are just able to defeat them in Khazar (and do not expect an AI faction to be able to do that if it hold one of those provinces), the bigger part of their army will be able to retreat and come back to haunt you next year. Beating the GH in Khazar is quite doable if you have the right troops to do so but beating them when they attack from Khazar to Kiev is way easier. Honestly if you have a few battles with the GH each turn and have on top of that to face a Papal resurrection, you are in it for a treat if you love very long battles (most of the time, you can never win against the GH if you auto-calculate). No harm in keeping Khazar for a few turns but do abandon it if the GH appears in another provinces (if Khazar has a citadel, it might be a good idea to let a few men inside just to force the GH to assault. I have read somewhere that it is an easy way to kill quite few of them)

Finally, do not let rebel occupy provinces previously owned by extinct faction (even for one turn) or there is a good chance that that faction will reappear there or that the rebels will joint that re-emerging faction. It happened to me once after killing the Khan in Kiev. He had no heir and stacks of Mongols went rebel. Kind of nice except that two or three turn later, the Turks reappeared and were joined by what remained of the GH. They probably got bankrupt in one turn but where a major annoyance for twenty turns before they could be reduced to a more manageable size (Mongols turned Muslims do not cause as many rebellions as when they were pagans)

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If it's 1205 already, you shouldn't go to Khazar. Get Kiew and fortify. It won't be long before the Horde appears...

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Don't worry, I'm not planning to keep Khazar (or Kiev for that matter). The Mongols can play with the Turks and the rebels before I'll bother dealing with them. Hopefully by the time they come, my troops will be nicely built up.

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Beating the GH in Khazar is quite doable if you have the right troops to do so but beating them when they attack from Khazar to Kiev is way easier. Honestly if you have a few battles with the GH each turn and have on top of that to face a Papal resurrection, you are in it for a treat if you love very long battles (most of the time, you can never win against the GH if you auto-calculate).

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In my last campaign with the Italians, I took down the horde when they showed up only in Khazar, and I took them down in one battle. Toughie, with some 5k slain, losing some 2700 myself in wave after wave. You can take them down with lower tech troops, but it's a challenge.

Speaking of the pope, just took him down a few years back, and haven't seen him yet again. He seems to favor returning in Rome, time and time again. I kind of like that province now, so I have more than a few troops there. He did also show up a few times in Tuscany and Naples, but not recently.

Another reason I don't have time to be too concerned with eastern expansion plans is that I have other problems. Not following my own advice, I knocked off the Hungarians accidentally:wall: (I usually like to leave factions in one unimportant territory, as I know where they are, and usually they can't expand easily with only one low income producing province)). The Hungarians have now returned in Carpathia in numbers:oops::furious3:, though a small battle with rebels might dwindle them a bit. I now am in the process of beefing up some areas near by depending on which way they expand:juggle2:. I have already sent troops to Bulgaria, Serbia and Croatia, but I will need more troops possibly for Austria and Bohemia as well. Of course the Polish stand in the Hungarians' path to Austria and Bohemia, so I'll probably be okay there for a bit.

I also have been busy employing spies in ravaged provinces I didn't want to bother to keep (though the spare cash came in handy:idea2:). I will also have some free troops coming from Trebizond as I don't plan to hold that province either. I already had a resurgence of Byz in Khazar, but I have rebels in between them and me before they can contact Costantinople. My only direct contact with the Byz is in Volhynia, but I have lots of troops in Lithuania to keep the peace:2thumbsup:.

I found I actually had more in the bank than I had reported, some 70k (now in 1209 down to 50k)! I spent some of that on pushing some troops out, mostly arbs and xbows, and adding some trading and farming as well as building some higher tech troop buildings (halbs soon will be online). Still have some trade income to play with, and finally adding caravels as well to replenish a few ships I lost earlier. I have the only navy now, I destroyed most of the other factions' ability to make ships:smash:, and the ones that could don't really have the cash or provinces to expand a navy quickly.

Now, my only other worry with surprise appearances is with the French, the Argonese, and the Italians, though the French have been gone a long time. The Argonese disappeared one turn after they were rumored to be attacking me a few years later. I was wondering how they would do that since their king was being held for ransom by rebels that very turn:inquisitive:. The Italians I hope will return again to Corsica, as I have it 'spy laden':whip: and have the neighboring Sardinia well fortified and can easily bring in extra troops by boat on my well controlled open seas.

Never a dull moment in this game, that's for sure. Always some surprise to deal with.

Trundled along further, but a bit busy recently, so little time for extended battles (a pity indeed):shame:. Some where in the 1230s.

The horde have arrived, and are now knocking at my doorstep from Trebezond. Constaninople is standing very strong right now, with halbs being produced and plenty of arbs are already available. I think it's easy to hold the line as the horde will have difficulty proceeding further. They may decide to attack the other AI factions, who are pretty weak (I think I may have had something to with that:oops::laugh4:).

I am slowly doing more farming and have the highest tech now. Shortly before the horde came online, I was offered the 60% victory out, which I turned down as I decided to finish this GA game. I am teching up some of my soldier producing provinces as well. I have about 30k in the bank, and am making a bit each year, some 2900 a year (trade is down a bit:juggle2:). I have other troops available, some of which have the Polish ringed in. They, the Norvogods, and the Egyptians are the only ones at peace with me besides the rebels. The Norvogods are constantly trying to spy their way in to my provinces, but still haven't decided to disturb my provincal borders with anything approaching a raid.

I have just had the Italians resurface again in Corsica, the Argonese, the Turks, and the Byz are holding 2-3 provinces a piece as well. If anything, the rebels are a bigger force than any faction!

The Pope keeps coming back, recently maybe the 9th time that I put out his lights. For some reason he loves to pop in at Rome coupled with Venice or Naples usually. He never appears in the Papal States anymore:furious3:, even though I have gracoiusly laid out the welcome mat there, he spurns it each time now.

I guess the best thing to do is knuckle down and watch my loyalty %s carefully as well as my expenses. I am carefully watching my spies too, as the rebels have a bad habit of building border forts, and thus later killing off my spies. They have done a good job of keeping the peace, my spies that is. They were the ones who forced the horde out of Khazar. They also keep everyone happy as I take over the areas near me, waiting to see if I want those or not.

I plan to ride out my provinces, as I don't really need more provinces. The 'real' ones that I did gain were when I kicked the Hungarians out of eastern Europe. The other ones I currently hold are just with spies, some on the Iberian pennisula, and some near Khazar.

I never remembered MTW to give so many thrills. I've found the HRE difficult, especially in the early years as they struggled to keep the borders.

Any advice on keeping the economy tidy? Some early advice proffered doesn't seem to hold water all the time. Jxrc mentioned that one spearmen and 2 archer units will keep provinces at a high enough loyalty, but I find it depends on the province and what number of rebels or other faction soldiers are lurking nearby. I find the spies help out, and I am continuing to pump them out. I plan to put 2 in each province, right now I have only a few provinces with 2 (Livonia, Lithuania which are higher for rebellions, and Venice and Constaninople). I can also redeploy spies that were doing guard duty as provinces turn (if they survive that long, sometimes my warning is their death notices).

I am still building some mines (that in provinces I just took) as well as cherry picking provinces for farming. Not sure how much more to do with trading, though the rebels seem to like my goods, so I have a few florins trickling in here and there. Any economic ideas would be appreciated, and I am sure my number of provinces will drop again as some provinces turn their backs on me:idea2::wall:.

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Originally Posted by gaijinalways

Some early advice proffered doesn't seem to hold water all the time. Jxrc mentioned that one spearmen and 2 archer units will keep provinces at a high enough loyalty, but I find it depends on the province and what number of rebels or other faction soldiers are lurking nearby.

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I had mentioned two units of peasants as being enough in most cases. One spearmen and two archers unts are fine too since that gives 20 extra men but I find that archers are not really suitable for garrison purpose since their maintenance cost is rather high (it exceeds the cost of an unit of X-bows and on a man for man basis spearmen and peasants).

I also pointed out that some provinces were more likely to go rebel. I would say if you want to set the tax rate to very high, you need (in addition to border forts):
- Portugal: 800 men;
- Livonia: 600 men;
- Lithuania: 600 men;
- Scotland: 400 men.

If you loose the connection with your king, you will probably not need any extra troop and can just diminish the tax rate until the connection is restored.

I also always keep 400 men on any island I have since there is always the risk that you will lose the connection between an island and your king (enemy ship, tempest).

Bear in mind that the province religion also has an impact on the loyalty of your provinces. Before invading an unruly province, it's always a good idea to send a bishop spend a few turns there if you have the opportunty. The piety of your governor can also cause unrest if nhis religion is not the same as the one of the locals (for those provinces 0 peity with high dread gives the best results).

Finally, remeber that a drop in loyalty can be triggered by the presence of an enemy spy and that you need border forts, spies and assassins to get rid of them (but I have never experienced any spy-rush by the AI).

Hope it helps,

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I had mentioned two units of peasants as being enough in most cases. One spearmen and two archers unts are fine too since that gives 20 extra men but I find that archers are not really suitable for garrison purpose since their maintenance cost is rather high (it exceeds the cost of an unit of X-bows and on a man for man basis spearmen and peasants).

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My apologies Jxrc, didn't mean to misquote you. I was lazy and went on what I remembered. Yes, the cost of men guarding the area is an issue, though sometimes it is good for garrison purposes to have other people than peasants. For example, your border provinces are breached and you suddenly have only peasant rushes to swing into action, rather than some possible useful troops that can slow the invasion down until you can get more seasoned troops onto the battelfield.

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I also pointed out that some provinces were more likely to go rebel. I would say if you want to set the tax rate to very high, you need (in addition to border forts):
- Portugal: 800 men;
- Livonia: 600 men;
- Lithuania: 600 men;
- Scotland: 400 men.

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Maybe another thread, but definately agree. I have the first three as border provinces, so I need to keep a higher number of troops. I think I may have been 'gifted' Portugal again, as it was one of the spy dominated provinces I had after I demolished the Spanish:smash:.

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I also always keep 400 men on any island I have since there is always the risk that you will lose the connection between an island and your king (enemy ship, tempest).

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I have more on Sardinia, though some were added later, as the Italians have come back into Corsica in force. They seem to keep reemerging there, which is fine as it is easier to contain them there than on the mainland. I agree, losing the connection to the king can be a large factor. I'm fortunate that I am the only naval power now.

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Bear in mind that the province religion also has an impact on the loyalty of your provinces. Before invading an unruly province, it's always a good idea to send a bishop spend a few turns there if you have the opportunty.

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I have done this with everyone that is at war with me and provinces that I razed and spy dropped. I am also converting Byz, Argonese, Spanish, Turkish and Golden horde provinces as it makes them more likely to rebel and/or sometimes rebel and revert back to me ( I just took back more areas in the Iberian pennisula (Portugal, Cordoba) as well as Algeria, and also Nicea, Anatolia, and Lesser Armenia).

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Finally, remeber that a drop in loyalty can be triggered by the presence of an enemy spy and that you need border forts, spies and assassins to get rid of them (but I have never experienced any spy-rush by the AI).

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On that now, as I have spies already deployed, am in the process of dropping more into all my provinces (doubling up on the normal ones, checking the others). I haven't seen spy rushes, though I have seen strong AI activity with provinces that they are interested in.


Update

I forget what year it is now, perhaps early to mid 1230s. The pope has come and gone a few more times, though this time he's still here:thumbsdown:, finally in the Papal lands:idea2:! He won a battle in Rome briefly when I autocalced (I had just one a long battle with the horde, mentally I needed a break:sweatdrop:), but I swept in the next turn and took it back. He is now in the papal lands, but we'll have to see if he tries to start trouble or not. I have an emissary waiting to make peace next turn.

The horde are still knocking, but they are bleeding bad. They occupy Georgia, Trebizond, and Rum. They have been whittled down, so they are mostly cav now. The fights in Constantinople drained their coffers and soldiers, and left me with a nicely valored up general (a viking, no less. I need to find him some additional men, if I can:wall:).

I am building some more farms and trading buildings. Still some trade money coming in, but my neighbors who dislike me don't help. I really wish we could all get along:whip::beam::laugh4:.

I am debating whether to hang onto the 'rebel' lands that were gifted back to me. I could simply move the troops out of those areas and use them for whittling down my border enemies or beefing up my own troops, though I can't say that the troops that emerged in those provinces are always quality troops (though axemen aganist cav is interesting, good use of resources). I just simply don't feel like I need the extra provinces, feel abit bloated, empire-wise.

Still putting out some replacement troops as I lost a few in the papal and horde wars. The horde were the toughest as I expected a shorter siege after the Khan died, but a son emerged and the battles continued. The golden warrior showers were the biggest nuisance, with the cav invasions coming later. Of course, some of that has to do with positioning. On the first battle map, I couldn't get any woods as cover. so I lost a lot more men due to arrow showers than I would have liked. On the second map, I took advantage of some woods even though the hill position wasn't the best. I felt the advantage gained in keeping arrows off and making it easier to deal with the cavs made the battle easier, my kill ratio was doubled 'from about 2.7 to 1 in the first to 5 to 1 in the second battle):smash:.

Regardless, as I mentioned before, the horde are slowly dying. I am not sure if the rebels, myself, or even another faction will finish them off first. Death is certain, that I'm sure of.

Thinking also if I need to build a few more ships or not. ahve a few caravels in action, and not all the oceans covered in pairs yet. But, I feel the troop coverage is more important now. The Novogod, the Polish, and the Egyptians are still at peace with me, everyone else is never happy to see my 'bloddy' axes! Some of my troops have had restful stays, but the ones on border duty have sometimes had very short vacations indeed:thumbsdown:. I suppose that is the life of a soldier.

Oh, one last battle tale from Navarre. I had a lot of extra older troops holed up there as the Argonese had not been much of a threat for quite some time. I think they felt squeezed by the rebels and my remerging self and attacked. I had 2/3 of my troops as xbowmen and archers, no lie.

Luckily as a defender, I was able to choose a very steep mountain. The AI came up the hill, and I kept potshotting his larger units of footsoldiers as well as later trying to kill his general, a unit of RKs. The AI units of cav and infantry did finally engage, but the hill advantage helped, though some of my archers had depleted their quivers by the time the AI grappled with my few front line infantry! With no replacements coming, I threw some of the archers in as a last resort when my front lines were almost breaking:shame:, finally driving off lancers and even some enemy halbs (though the halbs needed to be driven off 3 times, though by the last time they were down to 10 men in their unit). If you can imagine, the halbs were being chased by speedy scots at the end, the same unit who knocked off the lancers!

Great victory, with even a few of xbowmen depleting their xbows by battle's end (I haven't seen that very often except in some bridge or huge numbers per side battles). I forget the count on the casualities, as I was outnumbered maybe almost 2 to 1, but it was okay and I have now moved in some additional back up troops now. I'm not sure how long a vacation my general will get, the Italians are licking their wounds now:yes:, but like an injured cat, they won't forget any time soon who inflicted the wounds on them:beam:.

Further update

I have moved along to 1280 something. Haven't started developing gunners yet, to be truthful, I have never found them that useful. They seem to fight poorly, and their short range means they often get into trouble.

Have finished off the horde, pesky bunch. The battles went downhill for them after they decided to attack Constaninople one more time in desperation. After losing that battle and two other battles simultaneously, the remainder of their troops were stranded in Volga-Bulgaria. After toying with the Spanish and rolling up the Turks (Accidentally knocked off the Turks too, should have let them stew by themselves in Syria, but oh well:laugh4:.), I later brought back my extra troops, and knocked the horde off.

I also killed off the Italians again, but I'm sure they'll be back in no time, to roost in Corsica again. The Spanish are now down to only Cyrenacia again, as well as the Byz being holed up on the island of Cyprus (their other islands rebelled). the English and the Argonese are also still in Northumbria and Aragon respectively. They were whittled down a bit, keeps them from causing trouble.

The pope just keeps going and going:furious3:. Had to knock him off again after he started trouble, for perhaps the 13th time. I don't think I have ever before killed the pope that many times in a single campaign:juggle2:.

I am still at peace with the Polish and the Novgorod. For a number of years, I have never attacked either one of them in this campaign that I can remember.

I have some 90 k in the bank, been doing well, some 6k a turn recently, as well as some extra 'razing' income. Knocking out a few vessels with caravels slowing starting to fill up my ranks, and my trade has actually seen an uptick.

My spies have been very busy, with some dying off here and there as friendly rebels discover them up to no good:sweatdrop::beam:. They keep the peace in neighboring areas that I haven't bothered to take over as I want to focus on keeping my borders intact and teching up. Building up Tyrolia and Switzerland for those pikemen, hope to actually use them this campaign.

Still need to do some more farming as well, now that I have cash in the bank again. Before I got to that 90k, I was actually in the red two turns as I had some mercs initially help out until the horde was under control. Relieved all the mercs of duty one way or another, with some getting killed in the line of duty to their pay check:beam:, others being let go in this time of peace now:thumbsdown:. Some units were pretty depleted, a few were full, but I feel like I have enough higher tech troops in reserve so that if the pope and/or the Italians show up again, I'll be ready., So I let the mercs go, hope they can collect medieval unemployment:laugh4:．

Have been combining partial units, had quite a few. Kept myself busy doing that, and using some of them when I roared through Africa's desert areas. They sometimes are good in holding the line and attacking cav that show up here and there, though most of the time they just do garrison duty here and there. But it's a job and someone has to do it:2thumbsup:!

Good job, gaijinalways. Sounds like it's smooth sailing from there on. You have to deal with emergent Swiss and Burgundians in Late IIRC, but that shouldn't be a problem since you've had plenty of practice with the reemergent pope.
Are there any noteworthy competitors left at all? How about a map screenie?

As an emerging Luddite operating with a Japanese OS, screen shots seem to be 'difficult':help:.

But yes, there really is no one of size for a rival. The Novogorod and the Polish each control a mere 3-4 provinces each, so whether time and tedium will defeat me in finishing it as GA campaign, time will tell.

I do remember finishing one other GA campaign, but that wasn't recently. MTW comes and goes with me, as it depends on my stress levels and free time not devoted to do other things of more importance. Then again, what could be more important than MTW:laugh4:!

Nicely done gaijinalways. I am quite impressed that you found the necessary stamina to beat the GH and the many re-emerging faction you met. Must have made quite a lot of very long battle.

You got me in the mood for another HRE campaign (I have 4 days away from my office as from Thursday !!!! YES YES YES !!!)

My guess is that I try to start in the High period to actually use gothic units. I only used them once or twice in a campaign that had started in the early period and there is no genuine challenge using those against peasants and vanilla spearmen. It can be a lot of fun if you are vastly outnumbered and defending but after witnessing a few times how 5 units of gothic foot knights can butcher anything entering the forest, it kind of wears off....

The pope to be honest has been the biggest pain, but he certainly is beatable.

As to the other factions, they can be troublesome, but often if you leave them stranded in 1 province and on ocasion go and whack them down to size, then they can be very mangeable. My favorite trick is to allow them to live on an island, like the Italians and the Byz are doing in my current campaign. Neither can expand easily, and a raid now and then keeps them from building ships.

I like long campaigns, and sometimes I don't mind staying small. In this campaign, my growth just kind of happened, when a few factions irked:furious3: me:smash:!

Update

Roared into 1290 now and have 90k plus in the bank (had over 100k, but I started more farming as well as upgrading some other provinces for military purposes). The horde and the Turks are back, with the Turks having taken Syria (or the province next to it I think) and the horde is back in 4 provinces. The horde particularly looks spread out and much weaker now, primarily spearmen and archers. Luckily I kept some troops in Khazar, and have all my extra units that I have been combining there. I have been beefing up borders, but now am redistributing a few more masses to Khazar, though I expect the upcoming battles won't be that challenging (would you like a arb sandwich today?:laugh4:).

I am building for gunners and the like, though as I stated earlier I rarely find them that useful (arbs againist gunners anyone?:whip:). I suppose sometimes if you don't have a distance factor, or are dealing with kats and/or heavily armored units, gunners might be useful, especially if they are already on top of you (maybe in the jungle?).

I would like to build some more cav units. It's amazing how few I have, mostly princes. I have built some xbow cavs, but I tend to abuse cavs, so many of them have not lived so long:shame:. In one of the horde battles, I had 1 unit of RKs that did well, chasing and catching one unit of HAs and tearing apart a few other regular cav units. They were exhausted and I pulled them off about half way through the battle, they lost I beleive only 1 or 2, which is good compared to my normal cav abuse.

Any ideas on the best provinces to build cavs in?

I have quite a few provinces, with some being 'spy' held, so I could even take one of those or free it from the rebels. I suppose I should have some cavs useful for the desert as well, as more heavily armored units get exhausted in hot battles. Of course, another option is to simply hire mercs, and I did have a few of those, but I sent them packing some 25 years ago. Did use some of them, some got proverbally chewed up, others just didn't often see time in battle to justify keeping, though I suppose the threat of force is a more powerful deterrent than the use of it sometimes:idea2::smash:.

The navy is still being upgraded to all caravels (with mostly 2 per sea, still working on that), and with 10k coming in a turn, trade is still there, though farming seems to generate a much larger chunk of the florins. Don't know the exact percentage, I might do some research and do a report by province for a particular year, though the size of the trading house in a province makes a key difference.

Further update

Now 1303, have started building the necessary infrastrucutre to build gothic and feudal knights in provinces that have bonuses for such units. Should start churning out a few more cav units in a few years.

The Pope seems to be anxious, he returned another 5 times recently, once bringing a good 6k units in 3 provinces. Unfortunately for him, they didn't last long:smash:.

The Novrogod finally got up courage to attack me, but my income is still good, nearly 13k a turn. I finally have 2 ships in all the seas, and am slowly working on building more boats so that I'll have some extras floating around.

I am still building other units, as some battles with the horde are ongoing. I mostly am keeping him busy battling, as I don't need the desert provinces (plenty to build up already), and he is tied up battling and not building as most of his provinces rebel off and on (I could have something to do with that:laugh4:).

Enjoying building up some assassins, though it is difficult to keep them from getting knocked off if they run into AI nets. Have a 4 and a couple of 3s.

I also wonder about the spies, what's the best way to valor them up? I know if you don't build much in the way of watch towers, they will get more chances to fend off the asasians and other spies that 'tour' your provinces. is there a certain number of spis you shoudl try to keep per rpovince, and should you leave 'bait' there?

My emissaries have been not busy for many years, though they recently bribed Finland. Couldn't resist as I want to control all the North Sea trade, not just 2/3:yes:. They are 2 and 3 respectively. It seems some of the other ones got bumped off here and there, but with the other factions refusing most of my 'kind':beam: offers, they weren't doing much anyway.

Farming and trade buildings are still going up, will give you those trade reports eventually:shame:.

Sounds good. Best provinces for cav for the HRE are Toulouse for Chivalric Knights +1 from High onwards and Saxony for Gothic Knights +1 from Late onwards. Antioch for +1 Turcopoles, but they're not as useful as your generic mounted xbows anyway.

Well, I tumbled into perhaps 1340 or so. I got bored, and started running through my rebel neighbors. Will probably terminate this one and start a new one. I mostly waited to see the Swiss armored pikemen. Actually have them and moved them to Venice, have a pile of them as I forgot:oops: I was making them (that could be why the coffers have plumented):furious3:! May play a battle or two just to try them out again. I so often finish so I sometimes can't get Switzerland easily or find it's not worth it, so I want the fun of using those pikers.

I just plowed the Polish back under, I was initially worried as they had decent tech in a reemergence in Poland, and they were 5k strong. But after I brought everybody over, we had a 9k vs 5k face off (and many of my troops are teched up nicely). For some reason the Polish king and his sons didn't survive:oops::beam:!

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Best provinces for cav for the HRE are Toulouse for Chivalric Knights +1 from High onwards and Saxony for Gothic Knights +1 from Late onwards.

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Yep, using some from some other provinces that were already teched up. Had some feudal knighs causing havoc with the horde (a much weaker version I may add) by taking some siege machines down and then chewing on some archers and UMs.

Decision time


I'm wondering now, for a new campaign, the Sicilians, Hungarians, Polish, Egyptians, or the Turkish?

Let me know what you think. That HRE campaign was a blast:2thumbsup:!

Sicily for me please. I'd be interested in your initial approach.

Well, let me think about it. Those factions mentioned I have never played, and I always start in early (I like longer games I guess:beam:)). I am still very curious about playing as a Muslim. I do remember a long time ago a few aborted Egyptian and Turkish starts, but can't remember specifically what went wrong. Have you played all the factions in campaigns yet?

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Originally Posted by gaijinalways

Decision time


I'm wondering now, for a new campaign, the Sicilians, Hungarians, Polish, Egyptians, or the Turkish?

Let me know what you think. That HRE campaign was blast:2thumbsup:!

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Well if you want a real challenge, go with the Poles. Their starting position can be a real struggle, as they have no natural defenses/frontiers, and expansion will almost inevitably bring them into conflict with the Danes, HRE, and/or Hungarians.

The Turks can also be very tough if you don't take out the Egyptians early on (taking on the Byz right away tends to be suicide!). In fact, you almost have to wipe out the Eggies first, because otherwise you'll probably never have the economic/tech base necessary to engage the Byzantines later on. Even then, the Empire tends to still put up one hell of a fight, especially with their uber-princes commanding armies of katanks, BI, etc.

The Egyptians are a lot of fun, if maybe a bit too easy. They have a varied unit roster, and their provinces (in particular, Egypt, Tripoli, & Antioch) can bring in enormous amounts of cash, especially if you get some sea trade going.

Similarly, playing as the Sicilians pretty much dictates that you establish a sprawling trading empire. Aside from the very healthy income you'll get from having your ships trawling around the Med, you can also choose to launch seaborne invasions just about anywhere....which tends to give a Sicilian player the advantage in launching Crusades to the Holy Land.

I've not played the Huns that much, so I can't really comment on them. I don't think I've ever really gotten a handle on their unit roster, which seems to be a hodge-podge mix of western and eastern European troops. Could be interesting to see a campaign as them.

The Poles would be fun for me, since I'm half Polish. Also after finishing the HRE campaign, it was a challenge, especially in the beginning trying to decide what to keep, and what to concede at times.

Of course, what's challenging also depends on your style of play. I actually found the Danes pretty easy, and I strolled along for a long time with a small empire.

I'm still thinking about it, probably take a MTW break while I take care of things at home and work.

Personally I like to swing between a regular catholic faction for the heavy armoured but slow troops to the whirlwind fast muslim armies that need to be in the right spot to do anything.

So I'd take the Turks, and try to knock out the Byz immediately, just for the challenge. I prefer to play High, but early can be fun enough, as there will also be passing crusades - or even crusades aimed at you! - to worry about.

And thanks for running us through the campaign, good notes on what to do's and all the serious campaign questions that we all run into.

/KotR

I noticed I can't do the Sicilians (I'm playing vanilla MTW) so I actually started a fast play with the Polish (I promise, the Turks are next). Had one quick run through where I took over Pomerania and with a rebellion chance of 5%, the next turn I had 5000 againist my small army of 200 something. Even though it was mostly peasants and fanatics, I went down in utter defeat. Then when I got the ransom screen, not thinking about it, I refused, and watched the fade out screen come as I had just signed the death warrant on my only heir:furious3::laugh4::oops:!

I tried another time, not bothering to save and flew through a few years building up a nice income from farming on my properties. Took Pomerania, bribed Sweden, everything was fine.

I forgot about the Danish for a while and perhaps got lulled into thinking I didn't need to build up a bigger deterrent army. Or I should have bribed Norway as well, and just moved the troops there to Sweden.

The Danes soon got big ideas and invaded. Couldn't quite pull it off as my peasant general flinched first when faced with the Danish king's might:furious3::help:. If I could have taken Saxony earlier, I could have attacked Denmark and probably taken it or weakened it enough, but the HRE, who I didn't want to risk a battle with, were holed up there in Saxony.

Oh well, third time I'm sure will be the charm, and a little bit slower at that, might even save every other year, which is my usual, instead of going some 10 or more at a run.

I love this game, and I play it off and on. With my Thief II CD literally going to pieces, and not having figured out how to make more money with the current economy, I need MTW play to keep my sanity (what little I have left, that is). Some of you guys are more familiar with a lot of little tricks in this game, but I certainly know some ways to manage the game, and that's what cool about it, there are many ways to hoist that victory flag. The pleasure is finding what works for you and enjoying the play!

I think an approach for the Poles is getting to the sea. Getting coastal areas Pomerania and Prussia, as well as Sweden and possibly Denmark if you can knock their RKs for a loop with your own vikings and maybe some mercs. I think this next time I need to quickly build an inn in Denmark and hope for the best (as well as bribe Norway to get extra piles of wood between the RKs and my general:yes:).

Be back soon,

GA

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gaijinalways

Some of you guys are more familiar with a lot of little tricks in this game, but I certainly know some ways to manage the game, and that's what cool about it, there are many ways to hoist that victory flag. The pleasure is finding what works for you and enjoying the play!

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Well said. Finding your own way(s) to win is half the fun. :2thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gaijinalways

I think an approach for the Poles is getting to the sea. Getting coastal areas Pomerania and Prussia, as well as Sweden and possibly Denmark if you can knock their RKs for a loop with your own vikings and maybe some mercs. I think this next time I need to quickly build an inn in Denmark and hope for the best (as well as bribe Norway to get extra piles of wood between the RKs and my general:yes:).

Be back soon,

GA

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Yes, I agree that coastal access is often critical when playing as the Polish. Actually *obtaining* said coastal access can be a pain, however (as you've already noticed, Prussia & Pomerania don't stay down easy).... ~;)

Sweden is great if you can get it. It has the potential to become one of the richest trading provinces in the game, and the mine there doesn't hurt either. The problem, of course, is that the Danes will almost surely fight your for it. ~D