As I got the the completely useless award:shame: for my last thread, here is something for everyone to talk about. What suggested faction/s should be in EBII? There are only 10 slots so go debating. If I missed anything, I am so sorry.
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As I got the the completely useless award:shame: for my last thread, here is something for everyone to talk about. What suggested faction/s should be in EBII? There are only 10 slots so go debating. If I missed anything, I am so sorry.
Finally, a really useful thread... here's a baloon ...:balloon2:
I shoud mention that a Nubian faction has been ruled out by the team due to culture limit issues, don't think they were too keen on a Mauryan satrap either.
Voted for Syracuse, Bosporans and Numidia. But really, Syracuse is the only one I really really really really really want. Bosporans would be fun too (especially if there are more barbarians up there so they don't go making a baltic empire), while Numidia is needed to spice things up for Carthage.
But would have voted thrice for Syracuse alone, could I have done so ;) it's the only one I seriously care about. Except for that, EB is so perfect, I have a hard time imagining whatever the team might possibly do with the remaining slots???:2thumbsup:
Voted for Syracuse, Bosphorian Kingdom and the Boii. An other gallic faction like the Boii will give the Getai and Sweboz a challenge. I think with the Belgae, Gaul will be over crowded.
Cheers.
Belgae will probably be a buffer faction between those gallic tribes and sweboz.
A crowded gaul and germany would be feasible because that was what they were, a bunch of disunited tribes and confederacies trying to kill each other and stab each other in the back (according to the Romans) until Caesar's Conquest and Vercingetorix' rebellion.
I paticularly like the idea of Syrakousai. Kyrene won't be such a bad thing as well really.
Bastarnae: empty area, with the flavour of a Thraco-German faction. Not a very popular choice nevertheless, people all seem to favour yet another Hellenic faction :(.
same, but added nabataea.:juggle2:Quote:
Originally Posted by artaxerxes
I voted:
Syracuse: interesting how it will develope against romans and carthies
Belgae: oh!! i just want more bloody war in gaul, and to see my sweboz armies crushing more enemies.:viking:
Numidia: would be interesting to see those carthies with some trouble at the begining :duel:
Wow. Everyone seems to favour The Belgae, Syrakousai, the Bosporian Kingdom, Celtibera and the Boii.
The winners????
It seems there's a great deal of coherence here. Most people seem (to my enjoyment) to agree that Syracuse, Numidia, Boii and Belgae are perhaps the most needed, to spice things up in their respective areas, and then there are fx the Bosporans, whom we all think it could be fun to try. But I don't think you should count on finding a winner. We don't rule the EB team (or I'd have bloody well forced the Syracusans on them already:laugh4::smash:) so it's just gonna be fun to see this thread in a while, when even more have voted:2thumbsup: but great idea for a thread really, this should have replaced the 'which factions do you want in EB'-thread long ago:beam:
Well, the winners of the poll will probably be unknown because the poll is indefinite. I know that this thread will do little to change the team's minds but it is good to know what people really want.
I want to see Massalia. I always loved the combination out of greek and celts. Also it would slow down the Romani and Lusotanna expansion if KI controlled. Massaliotai Hoplitai:beam:.
Syracousai would be fine too, but afaik there are still problems with sources about their military, which units they used and so on. Make a mix out of Greek Hoplites and Liby-Phoenician units won't do it in my opinion.
A Bosphorian Kingdom, same as Massalia, mixed factions are always fun to play. Thureopherontes Toxotai (Bosphoran Heavy Archers) have I to say something else? A problem is perhaps a too ahistorical expansion into the steppes.
Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam
I'm seeing that everywhere. Can someone tell me what this means?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zett
Anyone know any possible factions that are not on the poll??
Everywhere? I thought it is just me who continuously wrote this quotation.:clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsatia
It means "Furthermore, I think Rome must be destroyed" and is a modification of Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delednam, a quotation of Cato the Elder. He said it after every speech, even if Carthage wasn't the topic. Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam.
Finally some love for the Arabian peninsula. A place often forgotten when it comes to history especially in pre-islamic times. Even though it's one of the places with the oldest settlements and a place with very interesting people, art, technology... Sad that it's usually only mesopotamia, egypt, India, China and the classicworld that get all the attention. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahim
And the nabatae wouldn't be such a bad choice imo, though I'm not sure if they'd have a decent army especially at the beginning of the game and if they would be able to fend of the superpowers that neighbour it, with a single province and such a probably very light army.
Voted:
Bosporian Kingdom - an interresting Faction I would like to see.
Bastarnae: more flavour in there area, better then rebels.
Belgae, Marcomanni - more confusion in Gaul and Germania would be nice since thats how they were...
Other: another Nomad faction, you can't get enough of em:laugh4: (i hear there is one in development already:beam:)
well, they chouldn't have too much trouble defending themselves...all they needed to historically was let an enemy march through their territoy, get sunburnt/dehydrated, let them catch al-ramad* from the desert, and then fall on them with hordes of archers, spearmen, and light cavalry...Quote:
Originally Posted by Moros
their equipment I imagine was simple but effective, based on what was found furthur to the south.
besides, even if defensibility wasn't a consideration, I'll sill vote any arabian faction, for certain..ethnic reasons.:clown:
*its basically a disease that causes a really nasty version of pinkeye-can even blind people. still common in Morocco.
what about Pergamon? or the second largest Germanic tribe. I always felt that Germanics seem a bit lonely up there in the freezing winters of B-F nowhere.
Pergamon is Confirmed to be in EBII, so that has not been included.
I don't know what the second largest tribe in germania is though. The Baltic is preety empty....
Massilia. That's almost like picking Andorra for a WW2 game over Finland, Hungary or Romania.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zett
Andorra?
:beam:
I really like the idea of a North-African nomad faction, but I doubt it is possible to implement such a faction due to cultural limits. Other than that, I'd go for a Pergamum, Syracuse, Yuezhi (I know, they probably won't make it) and perhaps a faction like Rhodos-Halicarnassos to spice things up in Asia Minor. I have to admit I don't know whether there is any historical ground to implement the latter faction.
I'm not against Belgae either, but they don't rank high on my wish-to-see list.
A Belgae tribe would be interesting (you could for a fully Celtic one like the Remi or Bellovaci, but you could also pick a Germano-Celtic one like the Nervii or Menapii - and that last option is a very interesting one IMO).
Turdetani, Edetani or Ilergetes? I feel no coastal iberian faction will make it... :no:
oh well there is always the lusitanni or the possibility of some celtiberian tribe
Let pray Syracuse is in at least :2thumbsup:
Hmm, I'd put my money on an Iberian tribe as a faction, rather than on a Celtiberian one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucefalo
I'd like to see:
1) Celtiberians (so that the Lusos won't create their super-empire so easily).
2) Belgae (to spice the things up a little bit in Gaul)
3) Marcomanni or Boii (so that eastern Europe won't be such an empty space)
4) Syracusai (sp)
Also, it would be nice to see Numidians, to make things more difficult for Carthaginians in Africa. Mauryan satrap is an interesting idea, but I doubt it will make its way into the game.
Syracuse all the way. If not I think the territory should be given to the Greeks to make it tougher to take!
Belgae would be cool as well, that part of the world should be really chaotic...Also they historically had some naval focus. Be nice to have a faction that contested British isles.
really for Syracuse to work efficiently Sicily must be expanded to say 6 settlements or more to represent how important that region is for all the factions involved and to increase the projected yield per say
I think Celtiberia is a very nice faction, because it's an outstanding addition to north eastern Spain. This way, Lusotania won't be OP, and, if you play Romans or Gauls or even Karthadastim you can count on some difficulties in obtaining that area. Besides, the Celtiberian culture was rather advanced in for example weapons. Those weapons were copied by other civs and used all over the European continent.
Everyone should really read the other threads in the forum about certain factions being put into place. Simply posting a poll, or responding with quiet one-sentence agreements will not convince anybody.
Pardon my ignorance, but why does everyone want Syrakousai as a new faction? What contributions to the game does a small unruly city-state have to offer compared to the other possible factions?:inquisitive:
more fun on Sicily I guess.. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by APX
Since you asked, I will pardon your ignorance.:beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by APX
Syracuse was one of the largest and most impressive Greek cities of this era. It was on the list of the most impressive Greek cities together with Pergamon and Alexandria. Just prior to the EB time frame Syracuse controlled colonies and territories in southern Italy, Illyria, Cyrene and on a number of islands. Italy withstood multiple Carthaginian invasions over a long period of time while the two wars between Rome and Carthage nearly destroyed Rome. Agathocles even invaded North Africa and threatened to conquer Carthage had his African allies not switched sides. Syracuse regularly controlled 2/3 of Italy and only recently lost control of their Northern territories to the Mammertines. Syracuse was a center of learning and culture with a number of impressive monumental structures including fortresses and temples. It was the home of one of history's greatest minds, Archimedes (who is 15 in 272 btw). Syracuse was capable of operating under a number of different governments from its typical oligarchy to a tyranny or a kingdom as occurred under Hiero, who was himself under the patronage of Pyrrhus, having been one of his generals. Syracuse's assistance in the first Punic war was what assured Roman victory as several times the Carthaginians came close to victory by disrupting Roman supply lines only for Syracuse to step in with supplies and troops. Syracuse was the home of the invention of the Gastraphetes and other siege weapons which lead to a dynamic evolution of siege warfare in the mediterranean. Although the current EB1 Greek cultures are west Greek and East Greek, this is inaccurate as the western Greeks were really the colonies west of Greece, of which Syracuse is the most powerful and influential in our time frame. Without the politics of Syracuse the Punic wars would not have started the way they did, and may not have ended the way they did.
At least... we can tell, what factions that most of the orgah's want to be in EB II..... this is why i say this thread is useful...
@APX
Syracuse was selected because most people wants it rise again... if you tell that's Syracuse getting crashed to the ground soon with Roman troops.... You should look Epeiros.... Pyrhhos historically dies in 272 BC, and kingdom of Epeiros was destroyed... sooner than Syracuse...
Pyrhhos dies in 272BC...
LOL. Historically, you can only have fun with him for 1 - 3 turns. :inquisitive:
I think it could work. Of course there are those games where either Carthage or Rome blitzes southern Italy/Sicily and in those, Syracuse would probably (if hostile to the blitzer) merely be another hindrance that's overcome with time. But I've had plenty of games where Rome and Carthage concentrate in other areas and I think Syracuse would work delightfully then. I don't really see the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by AttilaDerHunn
As for why we want them in
1) since they historically had made empires in Sicily before, and since the appearance of Rome/Carthage as the only masters of the Western Mediterranean ISNT necessarily a foregone conclusion at the start of an EB game, it should have the chance to maybe do so again
2) It would spice things up, so the Western Mediterranean isn't merely a 1-on-1, but, like most any other place in the game, has a few more pockets of surprise
3) They'd be fun to play:beam:
4-5 region is enough in sicily... just give Syrakousai an advanced mining facility
There's more than enough settlement in the area. I doubt Sicily will get more than 3 in any case. Permanent forts maybe, more settlement ? Nah.
Voted for Colkhis but there must me Caucasian Iberia instead. C.I. was a kingdom then. And Colchis partialy was a province of Pontus and partialy of Caucasian Iberia. Pontus's part of Colchis then to become Rome province, and only in 200-300 years Colkhis will establish a new independent Kingdom - Lazika or Egrisi
Yeah i also voted for Colchis as Kartli wasn't there.
ps looks like we can take numdians off the list.
I would love the Mauryans in but I see its highly unlikely. Maybe they could be given Iberian culture (on the same premise that Saba and Lussotannan share regional MIC's) that there is very little potential cross-over. Anyway thats more of a whim on my part. I am super impressed with all the decuisons so far in EB2, I just can't wait to see the final slots filled.
I think you mean 2/3 of Sicly? Just a typo I guess. I can't diminish the force of your case, your argument is very sound and I reckon Syracuse is a strong proposal for a faction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanit
I would like a Cyrene faction, wich also includes Crete and maybe even a city on the Cyclade islands (Thera?).
:egypt::whip:
Nubia - for a start because EB could use a new faction in that area, it would also add a much needed southernly located faction with different unit properties as seen before.
Bosporian Kingdom - This faction would have been added to EB1 if their was space, this has to feature full stop
Nabatea - Seems to have a historic foot step and would be a nice add to that area.
Numidia - Doesnt need to be explianed, more than enough space for this faction
1. Can't be done unless someone finds a way to open up more culture slots.Quote:
Originally Posted by lionhard
2. Agreed.
3. I doubt the historical importance of Nabateia, but I'd like to see an extra faction in that area too.
4. It's already in EBII.
Question for u, is their the same amount of factions in EB2 as EB1 or more?
As stated in the FAQ and numerous threads, MTW2 offers us 10 new faction slots in addition to the 20 that we have in EBI. EBII will thus have 30 playable factions, the majority of which will be the factions you know and love however. We aren't going to go and change all the factions from EBI, of course!Quote:
Originally Posted by lionhard
Foot
Nabatea - seems interesting, would make that area more crowded,
some Germanic tribe (voted for Boii despite being not Germanic) to make life tough for Sweboz,
Basternae to fill that area,
Belgae, but I would like to see them starting both on mainland and British isles.
Its located above arabia where the sabeen are and you have to venture miles to reach sabeen on EB so i think their shud be plenty.
P.s the game is sounding better an better
Does anybody realise there is a huge eleutheroi gap between Dacia and Germany?
Which would be filled excellently by the Boii or Lugii, and you'll note the Boii are a very popular choice for a new faction.
........Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
Yep.
Voted for:
Boii - one of the most powerful of celtic tribes, plus interesting starting position in central Europe
Celtiberi - hopefully Arevaci or some other tribe will make it to stop the insane Lusitani
Nabatea - already explained by many
Atropatene - not much place in the East leaves only a few possible candidates, among them I think this would be the best option
Nubia - just a wish I guess, would distract Ptolemies from becoming Yellow death once again
Another Germanic tribe would be great,I also voted for Judea (even if it wouldn't historically cope....) because I think Jews are UNDER-REPRESENTED in games!
They were a backwater people at that time like so many other people not really represented in EB - though they did have slightly odd view on religion for the time. They even have their own unit and in that respect I would say they are OVER-REPRESENTED, since jews were not put in seperate units.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking_Wårlord
Over-represented?
Has an RTS game ever been made about the Kingdoms of Judah and Israel?
The answer is definitly NO.
Moreover,their 'odd' conception of religion at the time made for the Christian and Islamic religions......
This is why they are quite important,a game without them is a game which has missed a MAJOR part of history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking_Wårlord
Sorry, to bug in but, You can play the Kingdom of Israel in Empire Earth. (Btw, it's too old and ..... let's just say graphically impaired)
Nonsense. The Kingdom of Israel was dead by 272 BC, their lands taken by the Babylonians, the Persians and the Macedonians after that. The Maccabean rebellion just secured their own city and some of the land near it, they didn't have the means to go conquer other lands, not to mention this happened in 164 BC, more than a hundred years after EB's starting date.Quote:
Over-represented?
Has an RTS game ever been made about the Kingdoms of Judah and Israel?
The answer is definitly NO.
Moreover,their 'odd' conception of religion at the time made for the Christian and Islamic religions......
This is why they are quite important,a game without them is a game which has missed a MAJOR part of history.
No, but there haven't been any RTS games concerning Germans fighting eachother, about the numerous steppe clans, about the Axumites, about the southern Arabian tribes (which had a much greater influence on the trade in Europe than the Israelites had).Quote:
Has an RTS game ever been made about the Kingdoms of Judah and Israel?
The answer is definitly NO.
Saying this is like saying that we should include a Buddhist faction in India, y'know, just because they had an influence on religion. Oh, and Christianity wasn't a major contender in the Mediterranean until about 250/300 AD. And Islam? 300 years later.Quote:
Moreover,their 'odd' conception of religion at the time made for the Christian and Islamic religions......
This is why they are quite important,a game without them is a game which has missed a MAJOR part of history.
Or are you stating we should include a faction hundred years before they had anything to say for themselves just because they had an influence on religions (which are badly represented in RTW/M2TW anyways) that weren't really important until 300 years after the ending date of the game (which very people have actually reached)?
18 votes for Judea?
Where are the 18 votes for an Irish faction?!
The geographical span would be wider than Judea.
I think modern politics are getting too involved if 18 people decided that a near-irrelevent state with a tiny geographical span would be given a faction. Their region(s) should be given a higher rebellion/unrest rate, that's about it in terms of historical importance for the time period EB is in.
My votes went to the Belgae (to balance the German hordes and the Aedui/Arverni), and Celtiberia (to better reflect the troubled nature of the Iberian peninsula)...
Certainly not Under. Though maybe the importance of the Temple could be improved in EB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking_Wårlord
Not that I know off. And though I would like to play one, not in EB since it plays in a completely different time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking_Wårlord
Judaïsm is very important historically. But their importance in 272BC - 14AD was the same as any small culture on the EB-map, except for that one heretic that born then and became equally historically important.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking_Wårlord
Here are some interesting links about Israels History. Viking_Wårlord, I think you will notice, that what the others had already said is true, there was no Kingdom of Israel or something like that, after they had been defeated by the Babylonians. Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts%20Ab...ael-%20History
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts%20Ab...econd%20Temple
How many games have you seen representing the Sabaeans? I think EB was the first to do it. How many games have you played which featured the lusotanann? And there are more of these examples. But what does that matter? The Judeans weren't independant until about 160 BC, most people don't even play that far. Their military wasn't much to look at at first either (this would change and would make them another hellenistic like faction). They never played a major role when it comes to international conflicts or politics. Economically they weren't anything special either. They were nothing more but yet another funny but mostly unkown people who simply had a rather distinctive religion.
I do not think there wouldn't be enough sources. Josephus tells alot and archeologcial findings like in Masada tells us quite a bit on their military. The rest doesn't seem to be a problem either. Except the justification, as it has almost no decent arguments pro yet many contra.
Like everybode else said, a judean faction just isn't justified against some other factions, or even most factions. :book: Just script it that if you pillage the temple the population go nuts?:wall:
I voted Massilia, Bosphoran Kingdom, Syrakousai, Boii and Colchis. And Cimbri.
My votes were to:
Bosphoran Kingdom, Syrakousai, Boii, Belgae, Celtiberian faction( not as a culture/subculture faction but tribe or group of tribes of celtiberian culture), Numidia (already previewed) and The Maruyan Satrapy.
Same reason other people had said for all except the Indian Faction.
Maybe no so strong case about culture slot issue and representation of the Maruyan kingdom (no space to the right) but maybe the satrapy colud be treated as a semi-independent region (if it was the case historically, don't know to much about that part of the map in that age) and if destroyed or in bad shape a reinforce/imperial Maruyan army could come in recapture/help mision or missions, just think this aproach in more acurate than the actual implementation in EB1.
I predict a Baltic faction to be found in EB2. :clown: Somehow it makes sense to me. In EB1.2 there are already some Baltic units, while a Baltic faction could keep Sweboz in check. They would make both the Sweboz and perhaps in a later stage even the Sauromatae a much bigger challenge. Right now, I feel the Sweboz sitting in the midst of rebel territory and not being attacked by other factions for the first 20-30 years is quite unrealistic.
Since I love Punic wars, I voted for Syracuse (the must have one for greeks, Epirotes and Punic wars) e and Numidia (the second already confirmed by EB team - though I would vote fo a second one), The Celtiberians and some other Iberian faction. Kyrene would be a good call too.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy1984
Well if someone were to make Punic Wars mod you would see a lot of fascinating factions. On top of the Massylians in Africa you would see the Massaesylians, the Maures, and the Garamantines. In Sicily there would be Syracuse and the Mammertines. In Northern Spain and Southern France there would be Massalia with its colony of Emporion. Not to mention all of the Iberian factions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leão magno
Another spanish faction would be good, lustaonna seems to spread like wild fire as the campaign proceeds in EB1
I really hope so, that area is screaming for a faction because of its emptyness. The only problem is that we don't know alot about them since no one wrote down their history and big battle which happned. Though they would make for a nice and unique faction with enough chances. So yes to a Baltic one! :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy1984
I voted for all of them because under ideal conditions each should have their own place, no matter how small and insignificant they may seem.
Just wonder... what's trapodos?
Google gives nothing to my unrefined searches. Trapezus perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
That's more or less where Pontos sits already, or will sit in rather short order anyway, though ?
Yeah I think it was supposed to be Trapezous. Kind of a odd inclusion, it certainly wouldn't be on my list of possible factions.
While the gameplay arguments for a Baltic faction are good, it's highly unlikely because there is almost no historical evidence for that area during this time period. The Boii are a more likely choice for balancing the Sweboz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy1984
The Bosporian Kingdom. I've "played" them in EB1 by migrating the KH to Pantikapaion in year 1 using console codes and bribery whilst abandoning their starting provinces. They were a hell of a lot of fun.
The hoplites and (horse) archers military was refreshingly different from the other miltaries. Their position and mix of enemies is also interesting -- you can end up fighting Sauromata, Getae, Hai, Sweboz, and Pontos/Seleucia if you cross the water.
For people who want to play EB2, rather than <grin>pontificating on the forums</grin> about map balancing or historical importance, this should be a really good faction.
WHERE ARE THE BATAVIANS I WANT TO REPRESENT HOLLAND!!!:wall::wall::wall:
Now for the controlled part~D
I voted:
1. Marcomanni - can fill the power vacuüm in central Europe and another independent tribe.
2. Bosphoran Kingdom - Great culture mix and starting position.
3. Syrakousai - Quite an important city, challenging starting position, posessed Archimedes.
4. Nubia - I always loved Nile campaigns, sadly the numerous Ptoly fullstacks made me change my mind, perhaps this help me to like it again.
~Fluvius
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluvius Camillus
Poor Saba needs another faction to beat on it?
Actually Saba don't do so badly at all. They usually conquer and hold on to the whole of Arabia. Which is much more than they did historically. And sometimes they can even hold on to a couple big cities like damascus or Antioch.Quote:
Originally Posted by antisocialmunky