what would you choose to do?
and since i cannot edit this poll , we could say that the romans did have IT networks ... and that by servering the emperor .. you are helping to ... setup ..... servers... of ... some sort ...
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what would you choose to do?
and since i cannot edit this poll , we could say that the romans did have IT networks ... and that by servering the emperor .. you are helping to ... setup ..... servers... of ... some sort ...
Find out where you are.
Enter the cave and go forward.
sorry i took a while to think of what to enter in the poll , only yo make a mistake with some spelling .. :laugh4:
anyway pick an option
Rome didn't have an emperor in 272bc so not that...
I know! throwing a roof tile at a certain uppity hellenic monarch (I'd have to wear a dress for that).:smash:
I wouldn't want to do any of those things! Also, there was no emperor in Rome in 272 BC.
Anyway, I would immediately set out to look for The Book by finding a native and asking for the location of the nearest sovereign/village leader/general and the geographical location of the area relative to Athens.
oh this is not meant to be extremely historically accurate ... even though this is an EB forum :sweatdrop: ... just pick an option punks
"servering the emperor at rome"
I'm sure the Emperor of Rome really needs an IT department if he were somehow also magically transported to 272 years in the past.
I would travel to the lands of Maurya, one of the greatest at that time and write down the Buddhist scriptures in English, French and Dutch, so in 2,000 years people have a clear view of the founding of Buddhism.
I'd visit the Senate of Carthage and convince them to support that Hannibal guy.
I would go visit the leader of the Getai, advise him to spam falxmen, and then he would go forth conquering the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antisocialmunky
can you explain this then?
https://img291.imageshack.us/img291/...wromeorder.jpg
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
A balloon to you: :balloon:
EDIT: WINDOWS!!!!1!
Heh, but that is what Getai did, and they lost to Roma anyway. Falxman spam tends to crumple under Syrian Archers and Pila. Think the EB falxmen are vulnerable to missiles? Wait 'till you see RL ones!Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontline1944
oh yes and i picked nomad btw , i would start in cyclades then work up to the getai and the steppe , make my way south to babylon and then east to africa , up through spain and western europe .
This thread is biased. How about more Hellene things? I chose serving the Roman Emperor, advising him with my knowledge of explosives (I love making bombs, including ones from black powder), and some other odds and ends, such as the stirrup or perhaps springs to re-introduce chariots, but this time effective, as the lack of springs was the chariots' main problem - the terrain had to be skating-ring flat. So basically, I would do my best to ensure the Roman empire lasted. And then I would introduce the Printing Press and build a time-capsule with all the works of Greek and Roman thinkers.
But at the same time I would love to serve in the Athenian Academy, or especially the Lyceum, as it was more scientific and less philosophical.
I want to vote for arabia!!:furious3:
To hell with the posted options, I would head straight for Carthage and live in luxury or join Pyrrhos' entourage and convince him that perhaps slowing down and consolidating his conquests for a few years would be a wiser decision.
Bah, there's no option for "Arcade Battles" in RL, either. Think the armor-piercing ability is overpowered in EB? Wait 'till you see its effects in RL!Quote:
Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus
https://i131.photobucket.com/albums/...th_falx_02.jpg
See if the hubbub on Temple of Aphrodite in Corinth was as great as its supposed to be.
I'm sure most of you would know what I'd do.....
I'd probably start gambling, visit prostitutes, drink myself almost to dead and definitly not help whatever emperor.
Given nobody knows you there, who's going to blame you for it?
or, use your superior knowledge of science and nature to make yourself a king...assuming you actually paid attention and remember all those stuff ur taught in high school....and know how to apply it.
Sodding hedonists...
I actually remember the stuff they teach you in high school, in addition to the copious amounts of books I already read. Yeah, I will teach Greek Fire, black powder, and nitroglycerine to the Romans. All three are quite easy for me to make (I know, the recipe we know for Greek Fire is not the original, but hell, it is close enough).
In any case, I want power. Oh yeah. Lots of it. Not just some smelly barbarian chieftain or saddle-sore nomad khan. No, while I am in Antiquity, I may as well wish for the moon. I will become the Emperor of the Roman Empire with my knowledge and then on a single night, execute all the Praetorians. Just like Hitler and the Sturmabteilung (SA), a.k.a. Brown Shirts.
After that I will introduce the Bessemer process to mass-produce stainless steel (with nickel), and then invade what is now modern-day Ukraine to mine titanium, and see if it will be possible to work with it, using the newly-designed furnaces. I will teach the Romans how to build trebuchets if the cannons prove to be weak, although I could rifle them too (but that would mean it would take very long to reload them, as I do not know how to make an effective breech-loading cannon). Then I will introduce oil and coal as energy sources. The list goes on... With coal I can make sulphuric acid, which I do not doubt will become a superb wall-defence weapon. Ahh, chemistry was always my favourite science after astronomy.
Continuing, I would introduce vaccination and antibiotics (I know of a couple of natural sources of antibiotics which perhaps I could isolate) to make my empire impervious even to the plague which will hit it (supposing I come before Marcus Aurelius). Not to mention my meagre medical knowledge would nevertheless revolutionise medicine, and of course, I would ban the use of lead and mercury in sensitive places.
Heh, I could write a book about this...
OR, use that knowledge to 'enlighten' a village of idiots, make yourself a king through your 'divine blessings', defeat any oppsition with superior technology, then take over the world.
I'd burn Barbaropolis down first if I were you, then wipe out the Seres before they grow too rich/smart/intelligent to rival you.
Unfortunatly AP, you won't be able to accomplish all that because:
a. You need acid for nitroglycerine (why would you want it anyway?)
b. There's no industrial base so mass-producing anything will take decades.
c. Sulfuric acid as a wall defence weapon? With Greek Fire and gunpowder available? That's kind of, uh...:juggle2:
d. How are you going to use, or even obtain, oil? Conquer the Arabian Peninsula, and then you have to actually build all the engines that use oil, which I don't think you can do. :inquisitive:
e. Maybe you can vaccinate against smallpox, but the plague? We don't even have a vaccine for that now.
In short, your dream could be accomplished by the time of your grandchildren, but probably long after you are dead (unless you are the Yankee in King Arthur's court on steroids).
I´d probably found the city of Bartix, then with time make it an empire, then the world would be mine :whip:
well, I know a weapon that can be produced in a manner that can be applied to ancient foundaries :clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Azathoth
and the ancient people were capeable of producing the materials needed (lead, iron/bronze, wood, saltpeter, sulfur, brass/copper, leather, linen, papyrus (or more linen :clown:), and coal. mix them in the right proportions, and dress the soldiers in proper clothes, and we get this: )
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
'nuff said.:clown:
EDIT: yes, its within the technological capeabilities of most advanced cultures-though I'd prefer to start out in China, since they were of the perfect economic potential.
Since you have no instructors and your soldiers lack even the most basic knowlegde of gun-warfare, it would take decades to train your army. There is litterally no-one who has even a remote clue how to aim, fire and reload a gun. Let alone he'd do it when being charged by some gaesaetae. You'll need to have some accuracy and firepower to make volleys deadly. You'll still have to armour your soldiers (since your opponents will use missiles), which almost forces your soldiers to reload these guns when fully armoured. I really want to see that happen. You can no longer have any kind of decent shield. You'll have to equip your soldiers with something that is capable to break a charge of heavy cavalry...
To me, the introduction of guns seems at best possible in some very specific situations: you need to be able to train your units (no berserkers please) and to have a proper battlefield (no northern-european ambushes, no quick skirmishing raids,...). You'll need to have decent accuracy and enough manpower in order to make your volleys deadly (just imagine being encircled, being heavily outnumbered, or being utterly butchered in man-to-man fighting). You'll need to be capable to find ammunition, to keep your powder dry, to have decent supplies of powder and ammunition (swords can be repaired if needs be)... When you finally assembled your army you should avoid barbarians living in trees or opponents who rely on archers or any kind of heavy shock unit - whether infantry of cavalry.
Minor problem, they're probably too busy shooting the crap out of each other to give a frak about you.Quote:
though I'd prefer to start out in China, since they were of the perfect economic potential.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountaingoat
I would have a bottle of wine, travel around the world with some instrument and sing the songs. And, yeah: when time comes i would join Hannibals army as his officer :clown:
Philosophy at that time was considered as Science itself: philosophy was science.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus
So I find myself in 272 BC... I would tell everyone that the Return of the Sith was a damn lame movie.
maybe they can pass that message on for a few thousand years.
someone could go watch a hoplite battle , and etch down a nice description on a stone wall , describing if they used over , under , sowrds .. etc .. to end the hoplite debate and thus have a close representation of how hoplite unit worked in EB
nomad, steppe->Barbaropolis/Megale Hellas
Loot like the huns.
I think there's a limit to the capacity of ancient societies to absorb technological innovations which would frustrate attempts to give them guns or even the printing press.
It's probably possible to build working models of the above (although I certainly couldn't), but persuading a society to adopt them on a widespread basis would be a far greater challenge.
Notwithstanding the fact that you're an outsider and lack the political or financial connections necessary to fund these projects, you'd need some way of demonstrating their benefits.
Take the musket for example; ignoring the technical challenges of building one, you'd need to convince the military hierarchy to adopt the weapon en masse otherwise at best all you'd have is another type of missile infantry which can fire further than archers, but with limited accuracy and very slow reloading times.
Worse still, in city-states like Rome with citizen militia armies, battlefield role is bound up with social status (equites being drawn from the highest classes, then the regular infantry grades, then the light troops at the bottom). Telling a triari (who at this point buys his own equipment), that he now has to fight in the same way as everyone else is unlikely to be popular.
Some innovations could probably be introduced fairly quickly, the stirrup is a good candidate here, but others, even concepts like crop rotation, would meet with heavy resistance on the grounds that you don't really have any evidence as to why people should abandon long-standing customs.
And back to the original question, I'd like to see the Hellenistic east. The idea of Greek kingdoms in India and Afghanistan is so incredible that if someone were to have made it up I wouldn't have believed it.
I'd probably be in Roma, running for the tribunate.
I would love to see those greek battles though, and to look and see the sucessor kingdoms.
I would assassinate the ancestor of Scipio.
That's more like it.:clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullheadhq
I wonder whether there are other people who'd unleash the psychopath in themselves and set up one of the most cruel cults he can imagine, including the practices of human sacrifices, decapitatition and head-hunting? And why not include the most gross torture and case of physical and/or sexual violence as well?
I'd be in Rome, although I wouldn't, naturally enough, be serving an Emperor...
I'd be probably a Populares senator with a decent military record, thing for Philosophy, altruism, Greek wisdom and inventions, et cetera.
The same with me, Baktria and Indo-Greek Kingdom fascinate me. The idea of Greek, Indian, Chinese and Persian/Central-Asian cultures meeting and knowledge coalescing...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewirix
Thirded.Quote:
Originally Posted by The General
I would be (if my social status allowed) some philosopher or priest or writer or engineer/inventor like Heron.
I'd head to Britain and tell them to spend the next 300 years building a huge wall around the whole coastline, even though I chose Mesopotamia just because it'd be too cold in England
All that would be nearly impossible to do, sure you could probably make greek fire and black powder relatively easily but nitroglycerine? there won't be tubs of nitric acid, sulphuric acid and glycerol just lying around you'd need to know how to make those, and how to make/extract the reactants to make them. Extracting nickle? very difficult. Ditto the titainium, extremely hard to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus
Making things like that without the support base of technology we have today would be almost impossible for one person to do.
Things you could do would be to introduce ideas like the dangers of lead and mecrury, vaccination etc those would still make a massive difference.
Umm, you would think I knew how to make all those things if I mentioned them... I did not mention what I could not do, and when I did (nickel and titanium), I informed the readers that it was unlikely.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
First of all, not probably, but certainly. Back in Russia I produced black powder and then made bombs from it to test it. I used nitrates, ground anthracite and lignite (to test the difference) coal (I had no charcoal unfortunately, but it is easy to make), as well a sulphur of course. 6:2:2 was the precise formula, with nitrates being the "6".Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
Oh, and I used grainy gunpowder which was invented in the late 17th century, which increases the power of the black powder by at least tens and even hundreds of times. Not only this, but the grainy gunpowder is highly resistant to moisture and is much easier to load, as it is no longer a powder but more like large-grained sand. To produce it, you need to wet regular powder, make balls from it, dry them, and then break them apart. That is pretty much all.
I even made a cannon from an old, thick pipe, and then soldered the end, and to make sure it held, I made some concrete and built a base for the cannon, as well as pouring some concrete on the breech end of the cannon, as I obviously did not trust the solder to hold it. Then I fired the cannon of course, by a remote firing using a kerosene-soaked cord. It was unforgettable :2thumbsup:
As for nitroglycerine, I read the Mysterious Island by Jules Verne, where he meticulously described how to make nitroglycerine just from the things you can find lying around anywhere in nature. Not hard.
Easy. Acids are not difficult to make, and I have read how to produce them. Seriously, how do you think they made they made sulphuric acid in the 8th century? I will use coal to obtain the sulphuric acid (not awfully efficient, but pretty simple), and then use the sulphuric acid on copper nitrate to produce nitric acid.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
and how to make/extract the reactants to make them.
First of all, it is not "nickle", but nickel!!! The former one is unobtainable as it does not exist. But yeah, those two I said that I "may" do if I could. It all depends on how hot of a furnace I can make. They are not essential. I will teach Romans how to make steel, and if I can get them to produce stainless steel, well, that is a bonus. And titanium was rather wistful thinking. At best, I can extract it in an exceedingly impure form. Which is why I did not guarantee the success of that operation.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
I already know hot to make it. The reason I am going to make it is because nitroglycerine is the most powerful explosive I know how to produce. I will use it to mine and detonate enemy walls in a way my simple gunpowder cannot. It will also be of great aid in civilian technologies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azathoth
Unlike Americans, I am a patient person, and do not want everything "fast" and "easy". Not to mention, there is no dire need for industrial production of nitroglycerine. Black powder will do, as it is simple as hell to make, and as I ahve said, nitroglycerine will only be used in rare sieges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azathoth
You need much less of it than Greek fire to disable targets. Hence its usefulness in missile weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azathoth
I will conquer the Mesopotamia where the oil has been extracted through wells for millennia. Romania, or Dakia, also has very substantial oil deposits (Ploesti fields). I never said I will build cars or other machines that use oil. I cannot do that, build those engines, nor refine oil. I will simply substitute oil for where wood is used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azathoth
Of course not, who do you think I am? An idiot? I read enough NG to know what bubonic plague is. In any case, the Ha! is on you. If you read even a paragraph on the Antonine Plague, you would know that according to descriptions of Galen, the most renowned doctor of that time, it was either smallpox or measles. EPIC FAIL. That plague was not bubonic at all. Just because it is called a "plague" does not make it bubonic. A plague is any highly infectious disease that kills enormous amounts of people in the old times (no one officially called the flu of 19187 a plague). Smallpox is not very difficult to vaccinate against, especially given that Jenner made one in 18th century with relatively little scientific strain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azathoth
Heh, good book it was. Especially the Gatling-gun the knights. In any case, I would choose Romans or Classical Greeks above any culture in the history of mankind to institute those changes, as IMHO, they woudl be the most receptive. And since Classical Greeks were such a tiny, and geographically isolated civilisation, with little resources, the Romans are certainly the better choice. It will be difficult, but the most crucial military changes will catch on pretty quickly, as their benefits are the most clear and present ones. I will start the change, and by the time I am dead, the machine will be already in motion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azathoth
It surely would not take decades to train an army in using firearms. Using firearms is a lot more easier than using a bow, or let alone a sling. Melee-fighting also requires lots of skill (and balls, of course), much more than simply using firearms. Firearms did revolutionize the military because of the effectiveness, that means, once you could aim at your target and actually hit it, they replaced all other ranged weapons because they were so easy to produce and to be used.
So the main problem in AP's idea is the construction and mass production of those firearms, which I really doubt would be doable within any reasonable limits (AP's lifespan). Training would be simple, first you personally train ten officers, then each trains another ten, and so on.
I think what I really would do is simply re-building my EB-empire in history. Then I would have my slaves build the biggest palace ever made by man for me. I would be the only male in this complex, save for the guards. In the basement would be a giant swimming pool inhabited by thousand of crocodiles which I would use for ritual executions on a weekly basis.
I would promote my prostitutes and sometimes my cats into the Senate, and everytime I visit the Senate, I would humiliate the upper class by asking my cats if they agree with any proposals by the Senatores, and when these meow, say "Oh, no, pussy says she has a better proposal on that matter." Anybody who thinks he's too good to listen to pussy goes to the crocodiles.
Why don't you go pitch the concept to Turtledove? :rolleyes::laugh4:
AP knows how to use guns?Quote:
So the main problem in AP's idea is the construction and mass production of those firearms, which I really doubt would be doable within any reasonable limits (AP's lifespan). Training would be simple, first you personally train ten officers, then each trains another ten, and so on.
I think what I really would do is simply re-building my EB-empire in history. Then I would have my slaves build the biggest palace ever made by man for me. I would be the only male in this complex, save for the guards. In the basement would be a giant swimming pool inhabited by thousand of crocodiles which I would use for ritual executions on a weekly basis.
And you're starting to sound like an ancient Bond villain, CN. :skull:
He wouldn't be too out of place in the East....
Oh, and also, hot-air balloons (I know the basics, I know where to get natural gas, and knowing the basics, with trial-and-error, I could produce an invaluable scout - the French used the balloons in Franco-Prussian war especially, to report enemy movement; The Prussians invented a special AA cannon to combat the balloon, as guns and bows did not have the range)
Then I would make a compass and discover Americas. There I will attempt to create a secret Roman Empire, so in case the Old World one falls, the New World one remain safe for a time being. I will keep it secret to deter any Columbus-like individuals. And I will spread the myth of horrific dragons and monsters in the Atlantic Ocean to scare-off future explorer. I may even bring a stuffed anaconda to illustrate the example, or dig up some dinosaurs to further frighten the people. Also, there I will go to Chile and discover the immeasurable bat-guano deposits which will create a fantastical agriculture.
no, it doesn't have to take decades; around 10 years is feasible (heck, the japanese modernized their army in about 10 years). just show them how to make, and they'll churn it out. and training a musketeer doesn't take long anyhow, anywhere from a few weeks to a full year. compare that to a lifetime of bow and arrow practice. and its a great excuse to centralize government-the Chinese and seleukids would have loved it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy1984
and accuracy is irrelevent-no one from that timeperiod would want to mess with a bunch of boys with "firesticks". and the range isn't that short (of course, if your paranoid enough, just rifle the barrel and you can multiply the range by 2 to 4 fold..and if you can support them with pikemen, even better.
as for armor: by your logic, musketeers in the 18th centry were a bunch of turtles-afterall, they fought each other with missiles:clown:
besides, I said specifically that I prefer to start in china: they definately had the means to train, churn, and use (and maintain)musketeers efficiently-hell, they used crossbowmen the same way :yes:
@satalexon: shooting each other didn't stop Qin from improving their weapons/armies* in RL, so why not a musket?
*hey, doesn't that take...listening, then providing the resources.
:dizzy2:Quote:
Then I would make a compass and discover Americas. There I will attempt to create a secret Roman Empire, so in case the Old World one falls, the New World one remain safe for a time being. I will keep it secret to deter any Columbus-like individuals. And I will spread the myth of horrific dragons and monsters in the Atlantic Ocean to scare-off future explorer. I may even bring a stuffed anaconda to illustrate the example, or dig up some dinosaurs to further frighten the people. Also, there I will go to Chile and discover the immeasurable bat-guano deposits which will create a fantastical agriculture.
@Ibrahim, that is precisely the problem y they wud not listen to you. The two filled a similar role. Y invent something totally novel when one can simply improve the existing crossbows' power and range? (yeah, thats y they eventually lagged behind in gunpowder weaponery for the average grunt.)
because it offers a chance to centralize government, in the sense that, do you realize the expense of the production of muskets is suficiently high that only a central government can produce, maintain, and equip a gunpowder army? and also the potential for a more powerful weapon in the long run?Quote:
Originally Posted by satalexton
and as I said, rifle the musket and it has 400-500 yards on it-much more than a chinese crossbow at its best. and the rate of fire is not too different as well.
now, if this were the ming or ching dynasty, then yes, they wouldn't want any, but not earlier
heh didn't know about that, wouldn't recommend trying to make it though it's severely unstable stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus
Oh i know sulphuric acid is easy to make, but nitric acid...where would you get copper nitrate from in 272bc? a better source of nitrate would be saltpetre which is much easier to produce given the technology at the timeQuote:
Easy. Acids are not difficult to make, and I have read how to produce them. Seriously, how do you think they made they made sulphuric acid in the 8th century? I will use coal to obtain the sulphuric acid (not awfully efficient, but pretty simple), and then use the sulphuric acid on copper nitrate to produce nitric acid.
and how to make/extract the reactants to make them.
Yeah my bad there simple spelling mistake, i really think your underestimating the amount of knowledge and expertise that goes into making these things, there's more to making steel that blowing air through molten iron.Quote:
First of all, it is not "nickle", but nickel!!! The former one is unobtainable as it does not exist. But yeah, those two I said that I "may" do if I could. It all depends on how hot of a furnace I can make. They are not essential. I will teach Romans how to make steel, and if I can get them to produce stainless steel, well, that is a bonus. And titanium was rather wistful thinking. At best, I can extract it in an exceedingly impure form. Which is why I did not guarantee the success of that operation.
That description is a little bugged. I have seen a chemistry olympiad whith that text and tasks were about small mistakes. But actually, you would obtain the products.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus
OTOH I see a bigger problem, the nitroglycerin is unstable and can explode during production or handling. With poor equipment aviable the probability of explosion only rises.
I totally agree with the advantages being offered by making warfare more expensive, the centralization of the government and the growing power of the latter if you want to be expansive in any area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahim
But your comparisons don't really seem right to me. You compared an ancient army to modern Japan (I assume you mean the early 20th century), which already used firearms or was at least comfortable with the notion of it. These guys had already instructors.
Why don't you compare with seventeenth- or sixteenth-century textbook (actually illustrations) telling new soldiers how to load their gun in no less 40 (!) steps. Even if you managed to drill tens of thousands of these men (you need them on different frontiers), you'll still have nothing that even remotely compares to eighteenth-century warfare. Simply put: you'll find yourself lacking in low-ranking officers who know how to use this infantry. By extra training this could still be solved though, although you'll have to introduce a weapon and a tactic on a battlefield that is so new, no-one knows the likely results. Your soldiers may lack confidence in their guns and prefer to use knifes instead. Your mounts might just decide to run away, as might your foe or part of your army. :clown:
Eighteenth-century soldiers are definitly not heavily armoured. But they were already equiped with weapons that allowed a small reload time, and fought in formations that were focussed on these smaller reload times. Gunfire became far more deadly than in the sixteenth century, making armour (still used to a great extent in the sixteenth century) obsolete. If you don't want to armour your soldiers heavily (or equip them with pikes, negating the bonus gained from using guns), you'll have to bring your army close to eighteenth-century standards, in weaponry, drill and tactics.
I'd team up with Archimedes to produce all kinds of superweapons and advanced maths and such, making Syracuse an impenetrable fortress (along with the rest of Sicily). If Roman hordes still get in, I'll pack up as much advanced tech created there as well as followers and migrate with them to modern-day Finland, creating a mighty northern kingdom - might take a while, but if find myself in 272BC I could as well as be immortal as well, so when the dark ages hit the rest of Europe, a great Finno-Greek civilization is ready to pour in and conquer the world.
I will BECOME the emperor, rather than serving a non-existing one XD. Even if it would be hard to make rifles (unless you would be able to make a proper rifled gun, you will have arquebuses, not so powerful and pretty short-ranged), our knowledged would be VERY useful.
I would be fortune teller and kings would start to beg on their future :laugh4:
and would tell all greeks to unite against rome then continue to kill each other again.:yes:
well, China again offers a good place to start: their use of the crossbow, inasmuch as can be determined by the terrocota army, was similar to late 17th-early 18th century manuals: form 3-5 ranks, and have each alternate between loading, presenting, and firing. the only change is to replace crossbows with muskets. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy1984
this can be advantageous, in that if provided with bayonets/hangars, one can make pikemen*, in in use in china, obsolete.
as for armor, that's why I proposed that particular musket; its an 18th century british model, perfect for rapid fire. its also one of the more accurate models at the time.
as for preffering knives: we can have swedish style tactics for them: a bayonet can be fashiond on top as it was in the 18th century, should they feel uncomfortable with shooting (alternativley, a bayonet/hangar combo, as the british had before 1768). so you can shoot once or twice, then go in up close.
*well, not exactly a pike, more like a 13 foot pole with two short-swords, one on each end.
Yiieeeeeha! Sweboz are 2nd mightiest!
But I have to admit that I dont know if I'd spend my whole live in those forests. Especially so early (272bc!). Later on it would be far more interesting. But germania would be certainly the first place I had to check out.
When it comes to where I would spend my life it would be Alex, certainly. Considering I wouldnt live much longer than 200 BC this is maybe the most important and most exciting city in the known world... right?
Unstable only if sudden pressure is applied. You do not think making grainy gunpowder is dangerous, much less testing it??Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
Well, as I said, I only mentioned stuff that I already know. I know it would be easier to obtain nitric acid from saltpetre (think of the gargantuan guano deposits of Chile) but alas, I do not know how to make nitric acid from that. I only read about producing it from copper nitrate, especially since I already have sulphuric acid. But I can always read more, and learn how to make it from saltpetre!Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
Well, duh, of course you are correct, but the "duh" is there because you are sounding as if you did not read both of my previous posts. I never said I knew how to extract and work with titanium and nickel. I just said I will try, and see if it works. I have no idea how to work with them. But I do know the Bessemer process though. I studied it :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
Yes it is but raw nitroglycerin is much more unstable and much more powerful, anything around or above 30 C is extremely dangerous and its a lot more sensitive to knocks or friction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus
ps.I'd imagine the scariest part of making grainy powder is the breaking up of the cakes, i certianly wouldn't like to be hitting a big lump of explosive anytime soon.
Sorry i was running on the assumption that you were back in 272bc with the knowledge you have at this point. As for nitric acid from saltpetre its pretty simple, just add sulphric acid, distil the products and voilà!Quote:
Well, as I said, I only mentioned stuff that I already know. I know it would be easier to obtain nitric acid from saltpetre (think of the gargantuan guano deposits of Chile) but alas, I do not know how to make nitric acid from that. I only read about producing it from copper nitrate, especially since I already have sulphuric acid. But I can always read more, and learn how to make it from saltpetre!
Ahh, thanks! Now I have extra knowledge!! Ah, Are you a Brit/Commonwealth citizen?Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
Yep i'm from Britian, Scotland to be exact and I can tell you it pleases me to see someone use the correct spelling of sulphur! none of this silly "sulfur" business.:clown:
:dizzy2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus
Excuse me? Generalization much?
Walking in the forest wtih the Sweboz. Since I think I'm roughly the average height of a barbaroi back then (I'm 5ft 8in) I'll fit in better than I would elsewhere though I would have no clue what they were saying it would still be fun. And I would hope that they have already adopted soap like EB says and if not, introduce it to 'em.
Yes, that and the fact you spelled "distil" with one "L" at the end, and not "distill". I also choose British English, despite living in America. American is a mere bastardisation, a dialect, deviating from the original and purer British English :snobby:, 1/2:clown:.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
A generalisation, and a true one. I do not know if it is too much or just enough, but I do know that Americans value quick and easy things perhaps overtly so. Just look at their inventions , e.g.: "drive-thru" restaurants, banks, vaccinations, medicine. The vaccinations clearly overstepped it, especially so due to their significantly smaller effectiveness (anywhere from 20-50% less effective)Quote:
Originally Posted by APX
Who do you think you are, Lovecraft?Quote:
Yes, that and the fact you spelled "distil" with one "L" at the end, and not "distill". I also choose British English, despite living in America. American is a mere bastardisation, a dialect, deviating from the original and purer British English , 1/2.
Vaccination? Seriously?
@Ibrahim
Perhaps you could introduce them the steam engine first, I'm sure they'll be overjoyed.
Huh? Are you referring to my outlandish plans for improving Roman Empire? Then why did you quote that post of mine?Quote:
Originally Posted by Azathoth
Yeah, just Google it... :no:Quote:
Originally Posted by Azathoth
Just Google it.Quote:
Huh? Are you referring to my outlandish plans for improving Roman Empire? Then why did you quote that post of mine?
And I was referring to the part where you said that Americans invented banks, vaccination, and medicine.
actually, taken from a historical perspective, American english is hardly a bastardization; if anything, one could make a better case for american english being "purer" than the british english of today: some southern dialects in the Carolinas** are the closest living dialects to that spoken by shakespeare*; almost all the dialects retain archaic features and terms (rhoticism being the most prominent), to varying degrees, and lastly, they are older than modern british english, which in only ~200 yesr old. most dialects in the US east of the mississipi, as well as canadian english, are anywhere from ~400 to ~250 years old. so no, pver schwa'd a's and missing postvocalic r's are not features of a "pure" dialect-just the features of one of many dialects. besides, I find the idea of "bastardized" and "pure" to be entirely pointless. am I going to go to an egyptian and tell him my dialect is purer because I use wala instead of yala?:no:Quote:
Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus
*no, I'm not making it up-they often pronounce things in an archaic manner: check this out: http://www.renfaire.com/Language/ . it is confirmed by wikipedia, and any entry of "great vowel shift")
**some, not all varieties.
@stalexon: yeah, yeah, when you lose you respond with petty jabs:clown:
:clown: Yeah, it -can- be done...you're merely accelerating a process that happened during the Ming dynasty (silly Qing nomads and their obscession with HAs)
OT-ish: Can volleys of bolts, destroy a cavalry charge? How did the Seres do it?
Steam "engines" have been around for ages IIRC the first known evidence of one is is the 1st century AD. It was considered a toy, for some reason none ever had the idea to use for anything else:wall:Quote:
Originally Posted by satalexton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile
the seres might use it =/ they already use natural gas to boil salt...
I'm still not convinced it's as easy as picking a side and then giving them guns.
Aside from the cost of mass production of guns, powder and shot and the military and social conservatism you'd have to overcome, once you managed to prove the concept how long would it be before your enemies developed the same weapons? Obviously this is more likely to be the case if you're fighting settled states rather than nomads.
Diffusion of weapons technology is certain to outpace imperial expansion, especially one that's reliant on siege trains and fixed infrastructure like gun foundries and powderworks.
In short, any advantage conferred by guns would be at best temporary and might be outweighed by the costs. In the short to medium-term, I'd imagine that you wouldn't field all-gun armies, but I suppose some units might adopt them.
As to the use of steam engines, I recently read Robert Allen's The British Industrial Revolution in Global Perspective. In it he argues that steam only developed because in coalfield areas of the UK engines could burn cheap, low-quality fuel and could be used to replace relatively expensive labour.
Everywhere else in the world had to wait until the engines became more efficient before it was cost-effective to use them. I would have thought that in the ancient world the relative costs of labour, capital and raw materials would mean that labour-intensive processes were preferred over those that needed investments of money or raw materials.
I think this is why they call economics the dismal science. It always spoils the fun...
I'd love to simply land myself on any steppe nomads, and create gunpowders and teaching them how to fight with guns and muskets. Well, the nomads are naturally better missile fighters, so I'd expect I could conquer the wolrd in 10 years with my "nomadic dragoon" army.
But I'd also love to land in Athens, and write several scrolls about Chemistry, Physics, and Biology, as well as maybe math...
Oh yeah, to create nitroglyverins, you'll just need a bunch of animal fat, boil them with ash, add some ammount of salts and then you harvest the thick liquid on the bottom, yeah, glycerine.
And about the nitrates, I'll go the nearby saltpeter deposits, and a big jar of redistilled vinegar is more than enough to made nitric acid. BUt hey... I'll start to taught them (either nomads or hellenes) how to create a good fertilizers first, and then made solar cells instead of oil based engines.
And at least, when I got bored, I'll just go to Barbaropolis with my dragoons and start shooting them. And yeah.... create a large, 5 meter deep, 20 meters square pit when a lot of Romaioi barbaroi thrown naked and free to run inside, while they become a moving target practice.
I was aware of that americans used some more archaic parts of the language but surely those dialects changed as much over time as british english did so the notion of one being older than the other is a bit of a moot point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahim
ps scots english still contains a lot of the old aspects of english, rhoticism being the most obvious.
Well the Sweboz forests, I would fit in best there, maybe even have a chance to do some raids and get filthy rich. :2thumbsup:
Though I'm not sure whether I would get accepted seeing I don't really speak ancient Germanic it would be very hard to understand. Though I definately have the physical appearance of a Germanic more then any other.
Although the barbarian soap was apparently a carcinogen :clown: but feel free, I'm sure it's better than covering yourself in olive oilQuote:
Originally Posted by Snite
they chaneged since then, as do all dialects, but not nearly as much as British english.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
and yes, I did make the point of age(and "pureness") being moot. language is never standardized; even in middle english we find one dialect pronuncing knee as "k-ney" while another has it "k-no" (damn I wish I were making this up)
however, the distinction between dialects is begining to die out, replaced by a "general american" accent, which is modelled on northern midlands english (western Pennsylvania, Ohio, northern Indiana), with western influence (on is pronunced "an" as opposed to northern midlands "oon" or "o-an*"). and the area round the great lake is also going through a "norther-cities shift", with changes almost as extreme as the great vowel shift.
*there has to be a better way of representing this:shame:
@Dewirix: even socially conservative society, such as the japanese in the 16th century, will adopt it; an awesome weapon is just that. and as I pointed out, the costs are actually advantageous for cetralized government, placing a premium on more efficient (i.e modern) government structures. In fact, when I get around to installing EB-alex.exe, I'll make an experiment with that in mind.
And nevertheless Oxford English is the world standard. Which is what I use, and which is what I learned since I was five, giving my speech the distinct flavour of accent as well.