Most Cost Effective Infantry?

Hey everyone! First time doing this so here goes...
For as long as I've been playing, I've always wondered what is/are the most cost effective infantry unit(s) in EB.

I'm split between those darn one shot wonders (unarmored falxmen and their brothers) who can slaughter entire stacks of heavily armored and elite troops for a relatively low price (in my games that is) :smash:

OR....

Those long lasting heavily armored near elite units (most heavy swordsmen) who I can keep for almost an entire war without having to replace them (but they cost A FORTUNE to recruit and upkeep) :wall:

so yeah...
just wondering on what the rest of EB thinks about this....

PS. sorry if someone did this thread before :(

I'd say the hoplitai hoploi (Greek Levy Hoplites). They're cheap, can hold the line, and are decent at fighting especially when you're using the phalanx mod thing.:yes:

Also, the Macedonian Reformed Phalanx are pretty good. They're almost as good as an elite phalanx but cost a lot less. To bad it takes forever to get them because the AI is :no:

Baktrian light infantry- is teh greatest. Think of them as a mix between skirmishers and assault infantry.

wouldnt the roman infantry be the best? i mean, by FAR the best in terms of money:performance? they have very good moral, strong performance, relatively cheap. theyre like 1000-2000mnai arent tehy?

falxmen are cut down by arrows too easy.

Camillan Principes, cheap heavy infantry with spears and javelins, good against anything, except the infamous falx units.

I would rather say it depends on what kind of Infantry you need.... For range troopers with AP missiles I would say Balearic slingers.

But if you need good quality light infantry "amor killing" comandos then I would say units like Drapanai or Thracian Elite Infantry.

If you need to have a wall of men in the street then get some phalangites Pantodapoi Phalangitai are my favourite (huge AoR, low cost many men in a unit and fight better in melee then most phalangites thanks to their axes).

Wether there is a "perfect cost efective unit for all task" I don't know. The situation and your playstyle determines that.

Principes are probably the most cost effective all-around infantry.

AP javelins, okay attack value, a good bit of armour and excellent morale, these guys make solid line infantry and they're dirt cheap (under 300mnai/turn? Hellyeash!).

Jugunthiz Hattisku

My recommendation would be Pantodapoi Phalangitai if you play in phalanx wars.... But I also said that If you can acess them, Gaesatae and Tidanotae are actually the most enduring troops in my regiments, thanks for their 2 hitpoints. Well, they cost a lot, but they won't need replacement except you face tons of archers.

Phalanxes: pantadopoi phalangites

Assault Infantry: falx-based units (don't know their names)

Heavy Infantry: Roman Principes/Legions

All IMHO ;-)

For their staying power and cheapness I would go with Rorarii.

Celtic, or any other type of slinger. I think you meant close-combat units, but slingers with a few chevrons are far more valuable and versatile than a lot of other troops. In a lot of my battles the number of casualties they cause is higher than their upkeep :beam:

But since I know you meant fighting units, I'd go for Pantodapoi Phalangitai, I know they've been mentioned but theyre awesome and those AP axes mean you can use them for any job.

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Originally Posted by Stycks

I'm split between those darn one shot wonders (unarmored falxmen and their brothers) who can slaughter entire stacks of heavily armored and elite troops for a relatively low price (in my games that is) :smash:

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:yes:

It's usually a rather simple matter to keep them away from missiles if you're playing as the Getai. With Drapanai, I consistently get kill-death-ratios of 5:1 or 6:1, say, 120 kills for 20 deaths, in the course of one battle. Traikioi Rhomphaiaphoroi are noticeably better at retaining their numbers over a campaign due to their armor.

A couple of contenders really. In no paticular order:

1. Hoplitai Haploi

2. Principes (Camillan and Polybian)

3. Drapanai (falx dudes)

4. Kluddobro (Britons Shortswordsmen)

5. Any Archer/Spearman unit

6. Uirodusios (Celtic Naked Spearmen)

7. Slingers

8. Oh yes, Rorarii. Love those guys.

The KH boydguard...They're free and great infantry.

I think bodyguards are disqualified.

Keltohellenikoi Hoplitai or Thureophoroi.

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Originally Posted by Moros

The KH boydguard...They're free and great infantry.

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lol:laugh4::laugh4: I think he wasn't including bodyguards. But ya never know for sure.:clown:

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Originally Posted by Tollheit

Jugunthiz Hattisku

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Seconded




Edit:Gamegeek2 must of posted while i was typing.

hahaha!
thnx alot guys :laugh4:

right now in my getai campaign, my 2 main units are those darn falxmen and the elite skirmishers....
gotta love them! didnt want to use my these skirmishers at first but after comparing, theyre on par with principes (give or take a few stat points)...
gotta love the getai :D

their mix of units can get any job done! (heavy infantry and cavalry, HA's, falxmen, archers, and awsome light inf!)

but im sticking to them heavy infantry....
until....
those darn HA's stacks start appearing :wall:

weeeeell depends who you're playing with really :)
playing as the KH you get the
1.hoplitai haploi which are incredible! for 890 mnai and an upkeep of 210 or so you get decent resilient hoplites... not only are those guys reasonably tough they are more manouverable than the pike phallanxes and so they can outflank pikemen- that's quite an edge!!! they also make very reliable pinners...
2.akontistai(read expendable) there are so many ways to use these guys ... :yes:
they can be used as cannon fodder/bate/flankers... their greatest advantage is their speed,manouverability,low cost...plus they come in units of 60...
3.somatopylakes strategou why not??? they're elite yes- but you only pay for their upkeep (not the recruiting) so i'ld certainly describe them as cost effective!!! AND they regenerate on their own (a great plus) ... ultra-tough and with great stamina... on a wall fight there's nothing that can resist them!!!

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Originally Posted by ARCHIPPOS

weeeeell depends who you're playing with really
3.somatopylakes strategou why not??? they're elite yes- but you only pay for their upkeep (not the recruiting) so i'ld certainly describe them as cost effective!!! AND they regenerate on their own (a great plus) ... ultra-tough and with great stamina... on a wall fight there's nothing that can resist them!!!

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Upkeep is free?

Well nowhere the rules said, bodyguards are discluded. I won fair and square. I demand at least 1 balloon. :gah2:

For me it's the Roman Princepses - very cheap for reliable heavy infantry. If we're talking about militia type cheap infantry, then it's Hoplitai Hoploi. They can hold their line and can do well against many other infantry type as long as you know what you're doing. But if we take into account the AI utter stupidity on the battlefield, then it's Pantodatoi Phalangitai or Phalangitai Deutoroi - very cheap and like "I win" button against nearly any AI controlled army unless you're hopelessly outnumbered.

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Originally Posted by Moros

Upkeep is free?

Well nowhere the rules said, bodyguards are discluded. I won fair and square. I demand at least 1 balloon. :gah2:

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I actually got a laugh out of your post, Moros. :balloon2:

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Originally Posted by Frontline1944

I actually got a laugh out of your post, Moros. :balloon2:

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Moros is happy now!:yes:

bg´s upkeep ain´t free they are included in your factions salary wich makes them extremly more expensive then most (ofc if you don´t pay the recruitment cash for them they are still cheaper then most elites) :yes:

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Originally Posted by moonburn

bg´s upkeep ain´t free they are included in your factions salary wich makes them extremly more expensive then most (ofc if you don´t pay the recruitment cash for them they are still cheaper then most elites) :yes:

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Yeah, but they are fewer in number too.

Actually, when examining detailed settlement information, is there not a proportion of revenues distributed to pay for the generals and their retinue, or am I completely off zee trakk heer?

BG's are cost effective in more ways than "not-paying-their-recruitment-cost"

1.They autoreplenish casualties...
2.Once upgraded (usually at the very insignificant cost of around 100 mnai) the BG unit stays upgraded all throughout (no matter of the numbers of fresh recruits admitted in the outfit)...
3.In contrast to other elite troops, BG are accessible from turn 1... spending 30000 mnai(and countless turns) in building MICs consists a cost... In my view BG's are low-tech elites..."low-tech" in the sense of immediate avalaibility... in fact all throughout the game they remain a sort of "poor's elite" ...

the most important aspect of BG "cost-effectiveness" is not seer cost reduction but improved logistics (which admittedly is a pain-in-the-ass-issue)...

another aspect of cost effectiveness is experience...
missile units tend to gain experience waaaaaay faster than melee troops ... thus augmenting their battle effectiveness-so in pure economic terms i find it very "cost-effective" to invest in large numbers of shooters ... (not very realistic i know) but certainly very compensating :yes::yes::yes:

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Originally Posted by The General

Actually, when examining detailed settlement information, is there not a proportion of revenues distributed to pay for the generals and their retinue, or am I completely off zee trakk heer?

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In EB they're free. Check your EDU.txt if you don't believe me. :book:

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Originally Posted by The General

Actually, when examining detailed settlement information, is there not a proportion of revenues distributed to pay for the generals and their retinue, or am I completely off zee trakk heer?

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You are completely off zee trakk heer. :clown:

What you're thinking about is likely a family member's salary.

I'd say Iberi Milites. Large numbers, good javelins, really solid in melee and yet a levy.

I play Eurobarbs, never played Romans but the units that impress me the most are

-Roman Polybian principes, for the reasons above mentioned, i.e. low cost, solid morale, armor, pila.

-Thraikian peltasts- 370 or so mnai per turn, levy at level three with a L4 temple of Ares, superb all around infantry can ambush, skirmish, shoot down elephants and AP rhompaia cuts through heavily armored enemies, dangerous in any battle including step battles as long as there is cover.

-Sweboz Jugunthiz skirmisher- very cheap, they can easily be mass levied with 4 chevrons. They are fast, tire slowly, put down most cavalry in melee with their spears and numbers, shoot down skirmishers, and are decent vs. infantry especially on the flank. Both Jugunthiz skirmishers and Chatti youth are great for filling out the flanks and reserves of a cheap Sweboz horde.

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Originally Posted by Moros

In EB they're free. Check your EDU.txt if you don't believe me. :book:

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Because the bodyguards are robots who never eat and rest, also they don't need money, because they are programmed to serve you.

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Originally Posted by ARCHIPPOS

BG's are cost effective in more ways than "not-paying-their-recruitment-cost"

1.They autoreplenish casualties...
2.Once upgraded (usually at the very insignificant cost of around 100 mnai) the BG unit stays upgraded all throughout (no matter of the numbers of fresh recruits admitted in the outfit)...
3.In contrast to other elite troops, BG are accessible from turn 1... spending 30000 mnai(and countless turns) in building MICs consists a cost... In my view BG's are low-tech elites..."low-tech" in the sense of immediate avalaibility... in fact all throughout the game they remain a sort of "poor's elite" ...

the most important aspect of BG "cost-effectiveness" is not seer cost reduction but improved logistics (which admittedly is a pain-in-the-ass-issue)...

another aspect of cost effectiveness is experience...
missile units tend to gain experience waaaaaay faster than melee troops ... thus augmenting their battle effectiveness-so in pure economic terms i find it very "cost-effective" to invest in large numbers of shooters ... (not very realistic i know) but certainly very compensating :yes::yes::yes:

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The BG units are of course the most cost-effective, there's nobody who would deny it, but that's because they're not units, per se, but bodyguards. With a few nomad generals and their bodyguard retinues it's possible to slaughter enemies by the (tens/hundreds of) thousands.

Thus, I do not think they should be considered here, due to their special mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Moros

In EB they're free. Check your EDU.txt if you don't believe me. :book:

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The BG units have no upkeep, because they're not like the other units, they're bodyguards, tied to the fate of their master. If the general dies, the bogyguard unit is disbanded, no? Which leads us to...

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Originally Posted by Frontline1944

You are completely off zee trakk heer. :clown:

What you're thinking about is likely a family member's salary.

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Yes, which I'd imagine include the payments the general makes to his bodyguards (or in the case they for some reason are ready to die for him for free, their equipment, food, horses, housing...)

Also, I'mma quote:

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Originally Posted by Apázlinemjó

Because the bodyguards are robots who never eat and rest, also they don't need money, because they are programmed to serve you.

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Bodyguards are privately paid by their masters (your FM) except recruitable merc generals, and in EB timeframe, every noble men (your FM) often has several farms, industries, and lands at their exspense.....

But I said they are not most cost effective.... all you need to do to lost them is a simple cavalry charge on their left side (who often result in death of their masters), but that's true that they are "low-tech" elites.......

Akontistai and Jugundiz are very cost effective. Of course, they will die if facing lots of missiles or heavier troops, but they're cheap and brutally effective if used properly.

Alltough for the most cost effective units I would say Principes or Swebos bodyguard.

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Originally Posted by The General

Actually, when examining detailed settlement information, is there not a proportion of revenues distributed to pay for the generals and their retinue, or am I completely off zee trakk heer?

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Yes, but is under "wages" and not "upkeep". It's 200 per family member and mercenary general, regardless of the size of their bodyguard or retinue.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

Yes, but is under "wages" and not "upkeep". It's 200 per family member and mercenary general, regardless of the size of their bodyguard or retinue.

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The mercenary generals have their own upkeeps, which is listed on their stat page, nope? For example a Celtic mercenary general has around 500 mnai upkeep, or not?

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Originally Posted by Ludens

Yes, but is under "wages" and not "upkeep". It's 200 per family member and mercenary general, regardless of the size of their bodyguard or retinue.

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I didn't say they had an upkeep (which is set to zeero as can be seen in EDU), I claimed they were not 'free'.

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Originally Posted by The General

I didn't say they had an upkeep (which is set to zeero as can be seen in EDU), I claimed they were not 'free'.

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Well... regardless if the size of the BG is 1 or 100, the FM's wages are still 200 mnai, meaning that no money is going to the BG. They are effectively free.

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Originally Posted by Frontline1944

Well... regardless if the size of the BG is 1 or 100, the FM's wages are still 200 mnai, meaning that no money is going to the BG. They are effectively free.

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If a generals' BG unit is reduced to 1 (or none-but-him), he might spend money to equip a new unit to replace the one decimated. The more influential the general, the more likely that nobility would be ready to serve him, by gaining favour from the faction leader and thus influence and wealth themselves.

Also, you'd have to take into account the prices of vanilla R:TW. Parthian Cataphracts cost 190/turn in R:TW - Zradha Pahlavans (Parthian Cataphracts) cost 1178/turn, Azad Asavaran (Parthian Noble Cataphracts) 1196/turn and Grivpanvar (Parthian Late Armored Elite Cataphracts) 1279/turn... Thus a general in vanilla R:TW might've been able to hire a retinue with an income of 200/turn, with promises of loot, influence and favour, et cetera.

Aaand I might be thinking too much what reality might've been. It's a CA game, after all. :juggle2:

Well...the Agrianikoi Pelukephoroi are pretty good. Decent armour, AP axes and missiles.

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Originally Posted by Hax

Well...the Agrianikoi Pelukephoroi are pretty good. Decent armour, AP axes and missiles.

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15 morale ain't bad either.