We Need To Be Protecting The Children From The Sex

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/13/...ned/index.html

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From what the suspects and witnesses have told police, the suspect yelled, "He's a snitch, he's a snitch" and "pour it on him." Another juvenile threw what police believe was rubbing alcohol on Brewer from a plastic jug and used a lighter to set him on fire, he said.

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So pick your poision? Is this:

A result of Americas lax attitude to violence?
A result of the glorifacation of Americas gangs?
A result of divorce and single parent households?
An anomally?
Are we simply reverting back to what we always were?

The best data I see is only from 1998 so I can't give any proof that this is an anamolly (I hope)

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

So pick your poision? Is this:

A result of Americas lax attitude to violence?
A result of the glorifacation of Americas gangs?
A result of divorce and single parent households?
An anomally?
Are we simply reverting back to what we always were?

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None of the above. It's Florida, that's all you need to know.

Uh, I dont get how sex comes into this...

On topic though... Stuff like this happens, no big deal.

Don't get me wrong, it is tragic for the boy, and the other one should be sent to jail. My point was that from a population of millions of people freaks like this will pop up from time to time.

Stupidity over $40. Simply amazing.

There must be some way to pin this one on Bush.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

There must be some way to pin this one on Bush.

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:laugh4: Which one? This is Florida.

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Brewer apparently owed one of the suspects $40 for a video game and had not paid it.

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Doesn't anybody wonder what the game was?

yeah kukri is right, if it is gta then whatever no big deal, but if it is say mario then that opens up a whole new can of worms

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Uh, I dont get how sex comes into this...

On topic though... Stuff like this happens, no big deal.

Don't get me wrong, it is tragic for the boy, and the other one should be sent to jail. My point was that from a population of millions of people freaks like this will pop up from time to time.

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I know you think you're cool with the detached, emotionless trolls you lob, but sometimes I read your posts and have a hard time believing you're not suffering from Antisocial Personality Disorder. A fifteen year old boy received 2nd degree burns over 80% of his body and your glib response is "no big deal?"

You are truly disturbing sometimes.

On topic....

We're raising a generation of malcontents that appear to be incapable or unwilling to allow themselves to feel empathy. We also have a guilt-ridden parenting generation that seeks to befriend and placate rather than discipline and mold their children.

Last week, in the small town of Mount Vernon, NH, 4 teens broke into a remote home specifically chosen so as to allow the perpetrators time and isolation from the outside world. Their goal... theft? No. They specifically came to butcher a mother and her daughter, "to see what it feels like to kill somebody". They had access to any valuables they wanted and had no need of using a machete and a butcher knife to hack the mother to pieces and slash the throat of the daughter (who survived but is in critical condition). Already, the calls for banning violent video games, as though the existince of the GTA game series absolves these 4 of responsibility for their actions.

We have a crisis of responsibility and it manifests itself at all levels, from the national (oops, did we target the wrong building... our bad...) to the local (hey, you can't prosecute me for croneyism for my gay lover, that's homophobia and I'm the governor, dammit) to the individual. It sickens me and I find it a frightening but very real likelihood that one of my two daughters will be sexually assaulted at least once in their lifetime.

But as Kadagar would sum it up really nicely... big deal. Happens all the time...

don corleone, getting a bit personal, are we?

As I said, it is a tragedy for the affected boy. Know that word, "tragedy"?

However, also as I said before, this is just one of those random occurances. I don't see the point of duscussing such issues when we have quite larger problems that DO have a solution.

Please do get me right.

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We have a crisis of responsibility and it manifests itself at all levels, from the national (oops, did we target the wrong building... our bad...)

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Agreed, this is more noteworthy. And a proper subject for discussion on these boards.

To sum it up, please try and avoid personal attacks, and also make sure you understand my intention before you start flame wars.

And again, on topic, this is a tragedy for the boy affected (for the third time, just to get sure some people get my standing on this).

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

They specifically came to butcher a mother and her daughter, "to see what it feels like to kill somebody".

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This is not a new phenomenon.

The lack of responsbility comes from the Team American logic of the nether regions.

Anyway, the whole thing requires social enginneering on a massive scale and social reform. Nothing more to be said really. Only way this problem would ever decrease in a positive way.

The fact that people never hurted each other in earlier times clearly points towards a modern problem.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

We're raising a generation of malcontents that appear to be incapable or unwilling to allow themselves to feel empathy. We also have a guilt-ridden parenting generation that seeks to befriend and placate rather than discipline and mold their children.

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Though I agree with this, I don't think this is the sole reason. People have been doing that for centuries, even when education was stricter than it is now.
Some people are just sick and should be dealth with before they become a threat to society.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

The lack of responsbility comes from the Team American logic of the nether regions.

Anyway, the whole thing requires social enginneering on a massive scale and social reform. Nothing more to be said really. Only way this problem would ever decrease in a positive way.

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Social engineering helped create the lack of responsibility in the first place by trying to not only legislate morality (every country does that), but also by trying to legislate the application of morality, thereby remving the necessity of developing a properly nuanced and discerning mind capable of using moral principles.

You can socially enginneer people to meow at the end of sentences, but that doesn't mean all applications of it will.

This kind of stuff has happened since the beginning of time, from Lemur's "Leopold and Loeb" (Ice Haven and Clarence Darrow FTW). There's an Ancient Egyptian inscription which complains of the lack of respect the youth have for their elders, and their rampant delinquency. And this kind of thing, although obviously morally repugnant, will happen until the end of the time. Humans are a flawed species, so we shouldn't be surprised when messed up :daisy: like this happens.

Sex (that's safe - so we don't get more mini sickos) is exactly what they need. When I was 15 I was in "masturbate four times daily" phase and strove to lose my virginity to much older girls. It was not until I was in my early 20's I started to focus on games and less on older girls.

Earlier this year me and a friend were ambushed and beaten up by a group (about 6 or 7) of drunken :daisy:, late at night on the street, while neither of us had done anything to provoke them. One of them hit my friend on the head with a bottle, apparently they panicked when they saw he was bleeding badly and ran off.*

Sadly, random beatings like that one happen so often nowadays that it's not a "big deal". That a bunch of teenagers take their time to think things over and eventually decide to set a classmate on fire is a lot more disturbing. Still, it's a big world :shrug:

(*my friend needed stitches but was otherwise fine. I had two black eyes and bruises on my face, nothing serious except that I looked like :daisy: for almost a week)

Those responsible appear to have rescinded their right to be part of the human race. Deal with them appropriately.

~:smoking:

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Earlier this year me and a friend were ambushed and beaten up by a group (about 6 or 7) of drunken :daisy:, late at night on the street, while neither of us had done anything to provoke them. One of them hit my friend on the head with a bottle, apparently they panicked when they saw he was bleeding badly and ran off.*

Sadly, random beatings like that one happen so often nowadays that it's not a "big deal". That a bunch of teenagers take their time to think things over and eventually decide to set a classmate on fire is a lot more disturbing. Still, it's a big world

(*my friend needed stitches but was otherwise fine. I had two black eyes and bruises on my face, nothing serious except that I looked like for almost a week)

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In america those people usually get shot by law-abiding gun owners.

Where were the police when this happened? Exactly. Get a gun.

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Originally Posted by AlexanderSextus

In america those people usually get shot by law-abiding gun owners.

Where were the police when this happened? Exactly. Get a gun.

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Or in Oakland they just shoot you dead before you can defend yourself :juggle2:. Twice earlier this year (or thrice I forgot) there were two youth shootings over girls. About 10-16 years olds got hurt because the girl they liked decided on another. So they got their guns went to the other boy and shot and killed them (two separate incidents). Hearing about this is nothing new but it's a big deal imo. Most of the time you hear the parents quip, "they were always the best behaved kid," or "they were always nice I didn't think they were capable of such things" (kinda like serial killers huh).

I agree with Don Corleone about the parents issue imo. And blaming video games is just a lazy excuse to tackle the real problem because it's a difficult and touchy issue.

Poor kid. That's a terrible thing to do over such a trivial thing.

As to the kids who did it. Enjoy jail.

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Originally Posted by AlexanderSextus

In america those people usually get shot by law-abiding gun owners.

Where were the police when this happened? Exactly. Get a gun.

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People packing heat are much more likely to die in the event that they are mugged, especialy by someone with a gun.

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Those responsible appear to have rescinded their right to be part of the human race. Deal with them appropriately.

~:smoking:

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Put them in a cage at the zoo?

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Originally Posted by AlexanderSextus

In america those people usually get shot by law-abiding gun owners.

Where were the police when this happened? Exactly. Get a gun.

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Yes, in Europe, we prefer the rule of law as opposed to the rule of the strong....

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Yes, in Europe, we prefer the rule of law as opposed to the rule of the strong....

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Speak for yourself, I cannot think of something more civilized than the right to carry guns.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Yes, in Europe, we prefer the rule of law as opposed to the rule of the strong....

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That's funny. Especially considering that firearms are the great equalizer.

Aren't the strongmen the ones that outlaw the possession of weapons to secure their grip on power?

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

That's funny. Especially considering that firearms are the great equalizer.

Aren't the strongmen the ones that outlaw the possession of weapons to secure their grip on power?

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That, and I think it's a good gesture for a government to say that they can only do so much. The trust some euro's have in their governments is kinda unsettling. Food and games.

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

That's funny. Especially considering that firearms are the great equalizer.

Aren't the strongmen the ones that outlaw the possession of weapons to secure their grip on power?

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In countries with a dysfunctional justice system, yes.

Norway has a functioning justice system. Does the US have one? If not, I think it's quite obvious what you should be fixing...

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Speak for yourself, I cannot think of something more civilized than the right to carry guns.

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One hallmark of civilization IMO is when the average person is offered a gun for self-defense would simply look at the gun oddly and then ask "Why?", and be sane about it.

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

That's funny. Especially considering that firearms are the great equalizer.

Aren't the strongmen the ones that outlaw the possession of weapons to secure their grip on power?

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Linked with the answer above, if normal people don't need guns for self-defense, who would need it? Criminals and those who like showing off how cool/strong/tough they are (preferably after a few beers). Hardly the category of people you want to have guns.
Thus banning guns can be done by the goverment without it being a move to secure their grip on power.

To summarize this part of the gun debate. European and American gun philosophy is different. There, back on topic.

It's not philosophy, it's culture. And, like always, the anti-gun crowd uses emotion and hyperbole to make their point. Why would the average person own a firearm? You don't want to know because you've been told and don't want to believe it.


Oh...No, we have no functioning justice system. It's like Mad Max here. Criminals flaunt their AKs openly and gangs of motorcycle warriors rule the street.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

One hallmark of civilization IMO is when the average person is offered a gun for self-defense would simply look at the gun oddly and then ask "Why?", and be sane about it.

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With what right do you deny something to someone, government can't deliver, but they love to deny things. They have the right idea these in yankland.

Apparently in europe you guys must not have criminals, like the ones in the first post of this thread, whose sole intent is to harm, maim, and kill, without prejudice.

Sometimes, when the cops get to the scene, it is too late.

Even in countries that have "banned" guns entirely, people still get shot. It might be less, but it doesn't eliminate gun crime.

The fact of the matter is, as long as guns exist, there will be gun crime, so as far as i'm concerned, a policy of Mutually Assured Destruction is a far better deterrent than Disarmament. :book:

Seeing as how nobody seemed to notice, I repeat:

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Originally Posted by Subotan

People packing heat are much more likely to die in the event that they are mugged, especially by someone with a gun.

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http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-get-shot.html
http://www.ajph.org/cgi/content/abstract/99/11/2034

Great. We're back to playing the statistics game. The problem with recording the positive effects of firearm ownership is trying to record events that *don't* happen.

Oh, and I'd like to see the actual results of the study. The comments in the New Scientist article mention valid points.

Well you can all do as you please, but I'm very happy that guns are banned here.

Even for the cops.

And that, my friends, is what freedom and security is to me.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Well you can all do as you please, but I'm very happy that guns are banned here.

Even for the cops.

And that, my friends, is what freedom and security is to me.

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how about criminals? Do they respect the ban on guns?

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Originally Posted by Subotan

People packing heat are much more likely to die in the event that they are mugged, especialy by someone with a gun.

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Not in the US. I believe they are less likely to be injured, actually.

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PACKING heat may backfire. People who carry guns are far more likely to get shot than those who are unarmed, a study of shooting victims in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, has found.

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That is a truly moronic survey. Perhaps next they'll say that people who wear parachutes are more likely to die in ski diving accidents, and blame the parachutes.

Also, it's a survey of people who got shot, not of people who got mugged. It's likely in Philly that many criminals carry guns because they're more likely to get into gunfights with other criminals. They carry guns as a response to the hazards of their lifestyle, and them being shot is a symptom of their lifestyle, not of them carrying guns.

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Yes, in Europe, we prefer the rule of law as opposed to the rule of the strong....

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:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Oh, my. Guns, as was said, are the equalizers; they prevent the rule of the strong.

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One hallmark of civilization IMO is when the average person is offered a gun for self-defense would simply look at the gun oddly and then ask "Why?", and be sane about it.

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Why are people always confusing civilization with utopias?

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And that, my friends, is what freedom and security is to me.

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Freedom means being prohibited from owning something because the government thinks you might hurt somebody else with it? :inquisitive:

CR

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Originally Posted by AlexanderSextus

In america those people usually get shot by law-abiding gun owners.

Where were the police when this happened? Exactly. Get a gun.

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Y'know, if the average person in the street was not expected to carry a gun, it'd do wonders. When this is something that is a serious possibility, on the other hand, you take precautions when you're going to do something bad; like getting a gun yourself.

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Originally Posted by CR

Oh, my. Guns, as was said, are the equalizers; they prevent the rule of the strong.

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He who caries a gun is stronger than he who doesn't. By the law, they have the same strength in theory.

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Freedom means being prohibited from owning something because the government thinks you might hurt somebody else with it?

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Guns are not banned. However, you cannot carry a loaded gun in public, or something like that.

Though I am a strong supporter of the 2nd ammendment to the U.S. Constitution, it has little to do with the OP. However, since such discussions more or less permanently derail a thread, this one is now concluded.

Thanks all!