So we can say goodbye to any improvements whatsoever. It's only DLC's and patches.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWC Thread
VERY disappointing.
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So we can say goodbye to any improvements whatsoever. It's only DLC's and patches.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWC Thread
VERY disappointing.
Well I don't see how that's any different that with previous TW titles. The only difference is that at least CA's being honest about it this time. Better that, than continuallylie aboutpromise mod tools and then never make them available....
Interesting interview and commentary. Some new information here but all the commentary on the demo seem to focus on the same things. I'd love to know if combat feels more like the original STW or more like RTW - visuals aside.
ho-hum...
The people at CA are similar to the bast*rds at Activision.
It took serious balls for Infinity Ward people to quit like that after they got fed up with Activison's bullsh*t.
Just saying, forum rules require entire word to be asterix'd out, not just a letter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Intranetusa
That aside, I don't want video interviews, but like Martok said, at least they are out and saying it. I really should take that proposal of mine to them...
That's too bad, I think part of what made TW a strong series was it's modding potential like for MTW or RTW, those games are getting older by the year but they have perhaps some of the best mods the community has been able to produce IMO.
Indeed, the more I hear about this the more I'm feeling it'd be better if someone tried to get a group together to make a Shogun mod for M2TW instead. Or maybe that Ran no Jidai mod for RTW will be out by the time Shogun is too.Quote:
That's too bad, I think part of what made TW a strong series was it's modding potential like for MTW or RTW, those games are getting older by the year but they have perhaps some of the best mods the community has been able to produce IMO.
Which is no doubt the main objective. By blocking modding attempts, DLC is more attractive, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by edyzmedieval
If the game is good out of the box I'm ok with this.
I never played any Shogun or Medieval mods (though now I think of it I have the idea that the last patch for Shogun was 'community'?)
If however the default game is poorly balanced like RTW/M2TW/Empire, it means no sale because there is no opportunity for that to be fixed.
What he said. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by hoom
crying shame.
This seems somewhat unfortunate. I personally like vanilla and am quite satisfied with what it has to offer, been like that with all the TW titles. But I do feel some sympathy for those who like mods and like to make them. I would think that CA could make more money selling the game to people who will buy it solely for modding it or for mods made available to it vs. DLC, but what do I know?
I am sure the people who made that decision feel that it's sound. And who am I to disagree? If I was that smart, I'd be making money from my own company.......Quote:
I would think that CA could make more money selling the game to people who will buy it solely for modding it or for mods made available to it vs. DLC, but what do I know?
But I do know this.......Bioware has its act together as far as the modding community is concerned. The mod support given to titles like Baldurs Gate, NWN, and Dragon Age have only served to keep the playing community active, interested, and ready to plunk down whatever Bioware asks for their latest release. I know I do because I know I'll be getting a good product and will be kept playing for years to come by all of the mods.
who'll bought DLC when someone could made them with better, more detailed thingies and FREE?Quote:
Originally Posted by Asai Nagamasa
That is a huge disappointment. I will not be buying this Total War.
This is another decision which seems like they're shooting themselves in the foot - again. Why annoy your fanbase? Like others have said, modding keeps the community engaged and active. People play the game for far longer, and not surprisingly they have a better opinion of the company... Important in the long run I'd say.
Mods are probably viewed by CA/SEGA as "lost sales", as are second hand game sales. If mods prolong the lifespan of the previous titles (e.g. MTW, RTW and M2TW) then that's a bad thing for CA who obviously want players to move on and buy the newer releases.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Nerd
Unfortunately there are plenty of people who will pay up for DLC. There is obviously no visible income for CA in modding. Also the Steam platform lends itself best to DLC and multiplayer, which is probably where CA's focus is going to be from now on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
Id have to disagree with the statement "If mods prolong the lifespan of the previous titles (e.g. MTW, RTW and M2TW) then that's a bad thing for CA who obviously want players to move on and buy the newer releases." Im of the impression that people who play mods buy all the totalwar games unless the game is not to their taste at all which would have nothing to do with modding.
Its actually a healthy thing in my opinion to have the ability to mod as it keeps the community buzzing and fresh, generating more interest in the series. For example some players would not normally have looked at totalwar but got it to play the excellent lord of the rings mods (sorry i forget the name), this puts the game in the hands of players who would not normally touch it and they may buy future releases if they get into it. I know that i will buy kingdoms again when the Europa Barbarorum II mod is released (I lost the game dvd when i moved house last year). If it werent for that mod coming out i would not repurchase the game.
No mod support, I am obviously disappointed, but it's the trend nowadays... If you want to mod, go open source. You have Mount & Blade for that.
Yeah, but that's only because the next TW title is Shogun 2. Don't pretend you're refusing to purchase it because of CA's recent statement about not providing modding tools. If the next game were Rome 2, you know you'd probably be getting it, mod support or no mod support.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Vuk Again
Also: Throughout the entire series, CA has provided very little in the way of mod support (and pretty much nothing at all the last couple games). So why some of you are suddenly so upset about this eludes me; the only real difference is that now they're at least being up front about it and not giving anyone false hope in this regard. Would you prefer CA claim they'll make modding tools available and then fail to make good on that claim (like they have almost every time in the past)? :inquisitive: I mean, really.
Would we prefer that CA provide modding tools for Shogun 2? Of course! But since that's not going to happen, then I'd just as soon they tell us now and get the disappointment out of the way right off the bat. Better that, than stringing modders along for months, promising modding tools/support that will never come. :gah2:
In fairness, I believe Asai Nagamasa was actually presenting what is likely CA/Sega's viewpoint on the matter, not his own. I'm quite certain his own perspective regarding games' moddability is quite similar to yours. In other words, you're already preaching to the choir. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Swoosh So
(Nagamasa, feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.) :bow:
Likely correct. They got rid of the second hand problem when they switched to steam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asai Nagamasa
At least they are being honest.
I think part of the difference is before it was text files. It wasn't hard to do yourself (RTW/M2TW) with the introduction of new file formats etc, its harder to mod.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoom
It probably need not be said (again, for the nth time), but recent form indicates that the above is a massive caveat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk
Were it not for Darth Mod, Empire would be a waste of time. And Darthmod is by no means the answer to every gaming desire -or TW flaw (I hope Darth himself might think that fair).
But... Darthmod, and all the minor mods which it has encluded, were all done without the promised Mod tools.
Personaly, I'd be more upset if people like Darth said they would discontinue their modding.
This is one of the many reasons why I'm opposed to Steam.Quote:
Originally Posted by pevergreen
As to mod support, there has been none since ETW, so what's new? I disagree with the assertion that people buy the games because of a particular mod. This may be the case in the small minority of sales, but on the whole SEGA/CA makes its money selling new full priced games to new customers - not to the same few thousand members of a particular online forum.
I'm afraid that most TW players don't post on these forums and haven't heard of any of the mods - it's dangerous to assume that we somehow reflect the "consumerbase". Most people buy a game on the strength of what's advertised or based on reviews. Mods are discovered later on by more seasoned players that participate in the discussions online. To be clear I support modding and the inclusion of modding tools, but I can easily see why CA are blocking modding (not to say I agree with their business model - quite the opposite).
Thanks for clearing that up Martok-san
:bow:
Mod support or no, Shogun 2 has got to be a bit of a gamble for CA.
Despite being such a ground breaking game, Shogun: Total War suffered from limited appeal due to the Japanese setting. The franchise expanded a lot with subsequent releases thanks to their Eurocentric familiarity. CA has got to be hoping that the fan-base has become so large that a return to the east will do well and not result in a sales slump. We shall see.
Yes id have to agree its a big gamble from ca, rome2 would have been a much safer bet.
I wonder if theyre banking on big sales in japan itself as it surely would not be hard for sega to market it there.
My understanding of the Japanese market is that they don’t do PC games that much. It’s consoles for them. Unlike Korea.
Could really care less. I only buy TW for the MP side of it, not for the mods. I think the only mods I played for TW in the past 10 years I been doing Total War games, SP or MP, would be :
Pike & Musket (MTW/VI)
Samurai Warlords (MTW/VI)
NTW 2 (RTW/BI)
That's about it. At least CA isn't going to lie this time around!
The more i think about this the more it bothers me, i cannot remember the last totalwar game that kept me interested in the campaign more than a week without me modding files myself or grabbing somone elses mods, Infact when i think back the standard campaigns with the exception of maybe kingdoms were pretty crap out of the box and dident improve much at all with the patches. Im in no doubt ill be bored of the campaign ca offer within a week and being unable to mod it i wonder if i should actually buy the game. I really dont expect to see a mp chat foyer in shogun 2 so i most likely wont be interested in the mp either. Ah well much ado about nothing untill sega or ca announce if they will include a foyer or not. Someone do me a favour and contact me on msn if they ever announce they will cause untill then theres really nothing else they can say to peak my interest.
FFS. Talk about ingratitude. Modders have earned them a lot of money as without them there's at least 2 game I'd never have bothered getting.
The very least I'd expect these days is for as much as possible to be in text / xml files which would not hinder performance and is easily accessable. If Civ can increase modding in each iteration I'd expect these... persons to do the same.
Is it something simpler? Are they getting embarrassed at how poor the game looks after modders have worked on it and the limitations are only those that are hard coded?
~:smoking:
Oh good, I've got a lot of games to catch up on anyway, this will make the schedule easier. :coffeenews:
And if I could fly I'd be okay with a lack of airplanes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk
CR
No need to worry about buying this product then. I'm still quite content with RTW and M2TW (and their many mods). Haven't bought Empire and probably wont buy Shogun2 either.
Too bad.
I think steam is to blame for no mod support. It allows developers to spoon feed us updates and dlc, which is much more profitable than releasing modding tools.:shame:
You know, the announcement that there will be no mod tools would be fine if they'd ever bother to apologize for touting mod tools and failing to deliver in the past.
In any case, I'm happy to say that the announcement has zero effect on me, since I don't plan to buy another TW title any time soon. Hell, I'd need a new computer anyway. Good luck to those of you who do buy it, but I suspect you're in for the same old story.
Agree. I suspect they've made a deliberate decision to not allow mods for S2TW, because of greed.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris7394
There are seveal (many?) games on Steam that allow modding, including games made by Valve, the company that created Steam.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris7394
yes that is correct. and CA have NEVER EVER, supported modding. it was just the fact that rome used text files and had more leaks in it then a sinking ship and people brought the knowledge they learned from rome to med2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good
though before ETW it seemed they where ok with it. M2TW Kingdoms came with a unpacker and the starter thing for Med2 featured community mods. after ETW they have become much more hostile to modding.
Not unless they port it to the PS3 or the Wii. IE a platform that Japanese gamers will actually use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swoosh So
I would hazard to guess that the majority of the Japanese gaming market would prefer something more "exotic" from their point of view than a game based on their own history. I think they'd be especially sensitive to any historical inaccuracies too, particularly given that the producer is a westerner. Hence, I don't think the Japan would be one of CA's primary target markets with this one.
Though I'm not sure why they chose Shogun 2 over Rome 2, they'll be able to re-use much of the historical research they did for either of the original games in a re-make. This allows them to focus resources on other aspects of the game. This is a win for those of us too, who enjoyed either of the original games, provided the results of said focus are significant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masamune
pick one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masamune
:laugh4: Yes, I recall Augustus recording his feelings on fighting a united gaul front with Arcani.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullheadhq
Not even mentioning flaming pigs who could run for miles and scare elephants and barbarians hurling heads, or the Naked fanatics who weren't even naked or the Mummy Returns egyptians or the .... ( I could go on for ages)Quote:
Originally Posted by pevergreen
Didn't CA want to reduce the number of different units to 30, because the ****heads might get confused with 31 units. And since you can't mod, you have to stick with the 30 units or buy 3,5 units for 10 bucks. Welcome to the new era, welcome to steam!
well, in fact, many of us enjoy some vanilla experience, but hate some other vanilla... me for example, I loved play my Napoleon TW even on vanilla, as they have excellent things to be portayed, and actually make up for some good feelings and balance... but I said vanilla ETW is total worthless... TOTAL WORTHLESS... (unless with Darth Mod, made them suddenly turned to be awesome)
I liked vanilla RTW, but I got bored of it in just a few months and once I discovered EB vanilla RTW completely lost its appeal.
It seems to me with CA's attitude lately is that they realize they made mistakes and they would like to fix them in Shogun 2. If that really is the case and it's not just hype then maybe Shogun 2 won't need modding to make it a good game. Modding would still be nice though. AFAIK CA hasn't said that it won't be modable, just that there won't be mod support, so I'm really hoping that maybe it will still be modable. As someone else (I don't remember who and I'm too lazy to read through the thread) already pointed out there hasn't really ever been mod support for TW games, so maybe there's still hope.
Yeaah right....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lignator
A diamond doesn't need sharpening, that doesn't say the diamond is better off, it can always get better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lignator
MODDABLE means MOD ABLEQuote:
Originally Posted by Lignator
The fact that you can mod means that you can make new units and dump them on the internet. This will mean that less and less people will buy their trashy, overpriced DLC. That means less profits. CA isn't a charity, but a commercial company, this means they will maximize profits. And if mods prevent them from gaining some extra bucks they will eliminate EVERY possiblity to make mods. I won't be surprised if modders get sued in a not to distant future thanks to the rise of DLC. Activision is actively doing this RIGHT NOW. They gave a cease and disist order on a mod of King's Quest that was being developed 10 years already. That means they had to stop and just throw away their all of their hard-done labour or face a constant tide of overpayed Activision lawyer in a frequency of a Zombie Invasion because people might play this FREE mod instead of Activisions new PAYED-FOR products. Mods are hostile to their ability to make money, because they are better AND free, and that threat should be eliminated according to them.
ohh... :daisy: I hope they don't do that with EB or I'll invade their headquarters with my angry Saka Horse Archers!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullheadhq
could you gave a link please?
http://kotaku.com/5482221/activision...uest-extensionQuote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
I've said this before...if I was smart enough to advise CA on the best avenue to take, I'd be making money with my own company. That said, I hold up Bioware as an example of how to do things, IMHO. I haven't played DA, so I don't know the latest Bioware policies, but Baldurs Gate & NWN had a thriving mod community, and actually increased interest and sales form what I've seen. I just know that I was more willing to buy Bioware products, first because they put out great games, and second, because I knew I'd be playing the mods for a long, long time.Quote:
The fact that you can mod means that you can make new units and dump them on the internet. This will mean that less and less people will buy their trashy, overpriced DLC. That means less profits. CA isn't a charity, but a commercial company, this means they will maximize profits. And if mods prevent them from gaining some extra bucks they will eliminate EVERY possiblity to make mods.
oh :daisy:.... well let's check out who was their leading board of managers, and maybe you can found something interesting..... We need someone from the mod team bought their stock :clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullheadhq
This is nice for you, but not for the developers, they HATE it when you play a game for a long time. They want you to play the game for a week or two and then move on to their next title.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai
this is a wonderful comment about the KQ mod from the comment section
Quote:
Bobby Kotick: "I feel the hunger, bring me a baby, so that I can consume it's flesh!"
Slave: "Lord, we're out of Babies! You've eaten them all!"
Bobby Kotick: "You imbecile! Why didn't you order more? Then bring me ten sweet puppies, so that I may crush them with my feet!"
Slave: "Master, I'm terribly sorry, but you've crushed all our puppies last saturday! Don't you remember?"
Bobby Kotick: "And I suppose we're out of new born kittens to drown as well?"
Slave: "That appears to be so. But there is this group of fans, who're creating a free sequel to King's Quest..."
Bobby Kotick: "King's Quest?"
Slave: "An old game by Sierra. It was some kind of adventure game series. We acquired the rights to it, when we merged with Vivendi.."
Bobby Kotick: "Ahh... Now I remember. And they want to create a free sequel to it? Tell me, what does the word 'free' mean? It's most curious and I've never heard it before..."
Slave: "They do not want to charge any money for it!"
Bobby Kotick: "Whoever would want to do that? Are they mad? But of course they can not be allowed to do so. Eventhough we will never make a sequel to the series.."
Slave: "Well, we were thinking about creating rythm action game for Xbox Live with the IP..."
Bobby Kotick: "Really? What a great idea... Anyway, they can't be allowed to use what is rightfully mine. I will tear their hearts out of their chests and consume them, while they're still beating.."
Slave: "I have a better idea! Let them live but forbid them to work on the project they've sunken eight years of their lives into. This will not only crush their spirit and destroy their dream, but that of thousands of supporters and fans as well! It will also remind everbody of our power!"
Bobby Kotick: "Ahhh.. Now I remember why I suffer you to live. You're not so stupid after all. Yess... Go to our legal department and tell them to crush those so called fans souls..."
Theres no doubt that the inability to mod shogun 2 totalwar will reduce my enjoyment of the campaign. and im sure many totalwar gamers feel the same. In fact one of the biggest things for me in the campaigns was to download a mod that had features i wanted to see in the game. I worry the normal campaign will be too bland to hold my interest.
The question is do we trust ca to deliver an out of the box great campaign?
I remeber playing the long road mod for mtw2 it was like a different game altogether better more interesting and felt like it was made by a gamer... The only campaigns that were really any good were the kingdoms campaigns imo but even they lack the quality that the modders bring to their campaigns.
yeah, I hope that Shogun 2 should have the quality at least as good as Vanilla Napoleon..... the best pure Vanilla campaign after Kingdoms Crusade....
I think I'd like to repeat myself and point out that Steam is not the problem with moddability, and furthermore, wise developers (such as Valve) encourage modding communities. Someone playing mods for a game won't skip the sequel unless the sequel is worse (or less moddable) than the last game in the series. It's a silly argument; people still bought Rome even though there were (are) dozens of quality and even huge mods for Medieval.
Theres a difference between the fan made mod and modding on TW games. TW Games require you to own the game. SEGA have made a sale.
It sounds that the mod would not require the base game.
They will not support modding, but they didn't really for ETW/NTW, so no big changes. Someone will create a modding tool, and we may be able to edit things. I fear that not on the scales of EB though.
I may play the game for a long time (I still play the original Baldurs Gate Trilogy:dizzy2:), but that doesn't mean I won't plunk down the cash for new releases. What I'm saying is that because I got a lot of entertaining game-play out of a particular release, I'm much more inclined to continue as a customer, so I agree with Alexander's take........Quote:
This is nice for you, but not for the developers, they HATE it when you play a game for a long time. They want you to play the game for a week or two and then move on to their next title
I'm not sure I understand this. Don't most modded games require you to have the original? All the ones I play do:shrug:Quote:
Theres a difference between the fan made mod and modding on TW games. TW Games require you to own the game. SEGA have made a sale.
From what I can tell in Skullheadhq's link, Activision is suing the "mod" group for hijacking the King's Quest IP rights. It is not a mod they were making, it is a new game, they wanted to make a sequel. When the rights were owned by Vivendi, apparently Vivendi didn't care. But Activision owns the rights now, and does care. Maybe they want to revisit the IP and create a sequel themselves? Who knows. Activision is in the right here, but it shouldn't affect true mods or mod/DLC conflict. The lawsuit is more along the lines of what Games Workshop does.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai
Vivendi gave them the rights to make this mod sequel. ON PAPER. Just like Arsenal of Democracy got the rights from Paradox, and they (mod-devs) asked money for it. If they would have taken it to court Activision would be laughed out of court, but volonteers are in no position to fight the lawyer unslaught from Activision.Quote:
Originally Posted by drone
Vivendi did not give them the rights, they gave them a non-commercial license. The rights still belong to whoever owns Sierra's IP, and that is now Activision. It sucks, but that's life. Vivendi only gave them the license after much wailing, they could have killed the project themselves, so it has always been on borrowed time. Phoenix Online should have bought the IP rights from Vivendi in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullheadhq
Of course, if we had proper copyright time-limits, King's Quest would be in the public domain now, but that discussion is for the Backroom.
True, when I said "good game" I meant enjoyable for more than a couple months. I'll be really disappointed if Shogun 2 isn't moddable just like everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullheadhq
:shrug: I was just trying to be optimistic.Quote:
MODDABLE means MOD ABLE
The fact that you can mod means that you can make new units and dump them on the internet. This will mean that less and less people will buy their trashy, overpriced DLC. That means less profits. CA isn't a charity, but a commercial company, this means they will maximize profits. And if mods prevent them from gaining some extra bucks they will eliminate EVERY possiblity to make mods. I won't be surprised if modders get sued in a not to distant future thanks to the rise of DLC. Activision is actively doing this RIGHT NOW. They gave a cease and disist order on a mod of King's Quest that was being developed 10 years already. That means they had to stop and just throw away their all of their hard-done labour or face a constant tide of overpayed Activision lawyer in a frequency of a Zombie Invasion because people might play this FREE mod instead of Activisions new PAYED-FOR products. Mods are hostile to their ability to make money, because they are better AND free, and that threat should be eliminated according to them.
Expect the worst, it can only get better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lignator
Problem with no mods is the mod community has gone from basic to really advanced and will be ruined.
Just check this mod its absolute quality https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P06M...eature=related
Will be keeping a close eye on whatever game these modders switch too if totalwar no longer gives mod support.