Did Zeus never teach Athena to have some tolerance with Muslims?

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AF2HM20101116

well well, I can imagine how annoying muslim immigrants are... but pelting them with eggs like peltasts are not cool, especially when they celebrate the Eid-ul-Adha and supposed to give free beef and goat steaks to their neighbours...

because you hellenes are bad with them, so no free goat steaks for you this year...

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Ok, ok, real commentary about this event:
- this night, the news (at TV) here announce this event, and they shown how the angry Greek mob throwing eggs, stones, and almost everything nasty violently to a small (!) muslim group gathered to do a religious ceremony in the central square (which was public ground), and the video shown there is not even pomp and ceremonies, just some goats are shown (for the sacrifice).
- as most of you allready knew, I was rather at odds with the muslims, but seeing them abused this heavy and even the police force (who are supposedly neutral at least) joins the fray into beating some children and even babies hit by baton... (!) ok people, this is too much...

just want to know, how "deep" european hatred with muslims allready grow, and why this event happened...

I don't understand are you saying you don't understand why a Greek might not like muslim immigrants being in Greece, I imagine muslims have never being welcome in Greece ever since the time of the Turks and up to and including today.

Kristallnacht.

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

I don't understand are you saying you don't understand why a Greek might not like muslim immigrants being in Greece, I imagine muslims have never being welcome in Greece ever since the time of the Turks and up to and including today.

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yeah, but what bothers me is they start to do "overkill" with their "protests"

pelting rotten eggs and stones, hitting and kicking at MEN should be acceptable enough in severe cases, but hitting women, batoning children, and kick some babies in their mother's hands is just... too much...

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

pelting rotten eggs and stones, hitting and kicking at MEN should be acceptable enough in severe cases

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.......

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

.......

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I just meant if the protesters are real MEN, they should avoid doing violences on helpless WOMEN and CHILDREN.

Maybe the Mohameddans will become the scapegoats for the woes of Greece? The scenes there were pretty shocking, most of them weren't even Turks so it's not like you could explain it with the old nationalist rivalry.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

.......

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Well you didn't mind when it happened to the police...

They'd better watch out if they start bearing gifts.

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

yeah, but what bothers me is they start to do "overkill" with their "protests"

pelting rotten eggs and stones, hitting and kicking at MEN should be acceptable enough in severe cases, but hitting women, batoning children, and kick some babies in their mother's hands is just... too much...

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You do realise these were far right loons right there gonna hate everyone, casual racism of Muslims is increasing Europewide but remember it is not happening in a vacuum.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Well you didn't mind when it happened to the police...

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Oh come on you know that wasn't serious.

Yeah the overdone pc-ness with multiculturalism has shot itself in the foot, the ordinary people don't buy it anymore. Unfortunately that may mean they swing to the other extreme and become openly hostile to Muslims. Islamophobia (horrid word, but I shall use it for conveience) is now seen as much more acceptable. This is especially worrying in a country as unstable as Greece...

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Oh come on you know that wasn't serious.

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Would't be a stretch to think you were, I know you wouldn't condone causing serious harm to a person, but when it comes to trashing property even some Uni professors openly came out and supported it.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Would't be a stretch to think you were, I know you wouldn't condone causing serious harm to a person, but when it comes to trashing property even some Uni professors openly came out and supported it.

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Thrashing property is something I whole-heartedly support, of course!



Also, in a thread like this it should be noted that the ones responsible for the current economic trouble in Greexe is every single Greek person. They cannot claim that some outside force screwed them over, they did this to themselves. It wasn't just some banks, it wasn't just the rich, it wasn't the immigrants, it wasn't the politicians, it wasn't the workers. It was every single one. It was the doctor who didn't care to pay tax, it was his customers who didn't want to pay VAT.

Of course, that doesn't stop nationalist mobs from blaming everyone else in their hate-campaigns.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Thrashing property is something I whole-heartedly support, of course!

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Especially when it's Conservative Party property, I'll bet! Trust a Viking!

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Especially when it's Conservative Party property, I'll bet! Trust a Viking!

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I'd lie if I said that didn't tickle me a little extra..... Hey, at least I'm honest!

And besides, being Viking, I of course approve of all pillaging of the British Isles.....

Hmm, our dialogue is dragging things OT...

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Kristallnacht.

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In what way is this the same? Or were you just making a Godwin for the lulz (I do that as well sometimes)?

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

In what way is this the same? Or were you just making a Godwin for the lulz (I do that as well sometimes)?

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A large-scale episode of violence and harassment directed at a minority which has been subjected to a long hate and fear-campaign.

Also, it was the first thought that poped into my head after i read the article.

Yeah but the major difference is the Nazi's used their own forces, unlike the current Greek government. A bit o' hyperbole there methinks...

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I just meant if the protesters are real MEN, they should avoid doing violences on helpless WOMEN and CHILDREN.

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Violence is against the law. Against men, women and children. Having a penis and more testosterone doesn't exempt you from being hit by people. I won't even try to understand how you condone violence and perhaps even promote violence (in severe cases, whatever the hell that means).

Where I live, I am happy that the nation-wide consensus is not (yet) "Oh, you can hit (Muslim) men and throw eggs at them." It's repulsive, abhorrent and you should be ashamed, as far as I reckon, for even proposing such a thing. It's disgusting.

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Originally Posted by Hax

Violence is against the law. Against men, women and children. Having a penis and more testosterone doesn't exempt you from being hit by people. I won't even try to understand how you condone violence and perhaps even promote violence (in severe cases, whatever the hell that means).

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Probably it is because we can't all live in comfortable western liberal democracies and hold idealistic principles about the equality of men and women while completely ignoring reality.

Outside of our little world, violence between men is commonplace, but when women and children start getting beat up it means things are generally getting serious. It must take some amount of hatred to overcome the natural tendency not to harm women and children.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Probably it is because we can't all live in comfortable western liberal democracies and hold idealistic principles about the equality of men and women while completely ignoring reality.

Outside of our little world, violence between men is commonplace, but when women and children start getting beat up it means things are generally getting serious. It must take some amount of hatred to overcome the natural tendency not to harm women and children.

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So......

Ghandi was from western Europe? :inquisitive:

Yeah Ghandi was very cosmpolitan he was well educated before he decided to walk about in a piece of cloth for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by Hax

Violence is against the law. Against men, women and children. Having a penis and more testosterone doesn't exempt you from being hit by people. I won't even try to understand how you condone violence and perhaps even promote violence (in severe cases, whatever the hell that means).

Where I live, I am happy that the nation-wide consensus is not (yet) "Oh, you can hit (Muslim) men and throw eggs at them." It's repulsive, abhorrent and you should be ashamed, as far as I reckon, for even proposing such a thing. It's disgusting.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Outside of our little world, violence between men is commonplace, but when women and children start getting beat up it means things are generally getting serious. It must take some amount of hatred to overcome the natural tendency not to harm women and children.

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well, I just want to point out that those protesters are attacking helpless women and children, group who had little to no chance of retaliation... so they have done more horrible things than attacking men who clearly shown to hit back their attackers (but still overwhelmed by numbers though).

Not meant I advising violence against men, but in every society and culture, women and children are generally should be more protected, don't they?

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

women are generally should be more protected, don't they?

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Bah.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Bah.

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You don't want it to be true so it can't be true?

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

You don't want it to be true so it can't be true?

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No I'm saying it's not my view on things.

But how can you deny it?

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Outside of our little world, violence between men is commonplace, but when women and children start getting beat up it means things are generally getting serious. It must take some amount of hatred to overcome the natural tendency not to harm women and children.

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The natural tendency to not harm women and children?

lol. Women and children are most commonly those getting the tom kicked out of them, because men who use violence are generaly cowards. People who start/go looking for fights are generaly cowards. These Greeks are cowards

See the trend?

Maaaaaan, it's been much too long since I egged and stoned something.

White trash meh. No fan of Islam but this is idiotic

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

The natural tendency to not harm women and children?

lol. Women and children are most commonly those getting the tom kicked out of them, because men who use violence are generaly cowards. People who start/go looking for fights are generaly cowards. These Greeks are cowards

See the trend?

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/thread

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

But how can you deny it?

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I don't even care what other peoples stance is on this. If you feel that way, kudos to you, but I don't.

Christians made Zeusism and Athenaism disappear before the Muslims could.

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AF2HM20101116

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Originally Posted by Article

Dozens of far-right activists and local residents threw eggs and taunted hundreds of Muslim immigrants as they gathered to pray in a central square for Eid al-Adha surrounded by a protective cordon of riot police.

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A few local far-right nutjobs is not = "The Greeks".

That's like insinuating that all Flemings are nationalists and seperatists because some 50 flag waving idiots threw rotten eggs at some Walloon provocateur or like insinuating the Walloons want civil war because some drunk Walloon low life beat up a Flemish politician.

Meh. Sensationalism.

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

The natural tendency to not harm women and children?

lol. Women and children are most commonly those getting the tom kicked out of them, because men who use violence are generaly cowards. People who start/go looking for fights are generaly cowards. These Greeks are cowards

See the trend?

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This isn't chauvinism, I remember a feminist teacher went crazy when one guy suggested mean should be able to hit women in retaliation if they are equal.

Also, men that use violence are not cowards, that is pc bs since for some reason nowadays we call everyone cowards when we don't like them/disapprove of what they do. Taliban? Cowards. Guy tops himself? Coward. Guy goes looking for a fight where he could get hurt? Coward... yeah, whatever.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Also, men that use violence are not cowards

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No, he de big Boss an no-one gonna risk gettin dere skull broke. /Orc

Wife beating is cowardly.

If violence per se is not cowardly, it is pretty prehistoric and should be obsolete in a civilised society. If it's seen as nesseccary, then things have clearly degenerated too far.

I am rather concerened about how this episode will go down overseas. It will easily be inflated into some sort of further evidence that Europe and Christians hate Muslims.

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Originally Posted by Andres

A few local far-right nutjobs is not = "The Greeks".

That's like insinuating that all Flemings are nationalists and seperatists because some 50 flag waving idiots threw rotten eggs at some Walloon provocateur or like insinuating the Walloons want civil war because some drunk Walloon low life beat up a Flemish politician.

Meh. Sensationalism.

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Oh common they live in Greece that makes them Greeks. Everybody understands that it weren't all the Greeks doing this there is no need to be so specific.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

This isn't chauvinism, I remember a feminist teacher went crazy when one guy suggested mean should be able to hit women in retaliation if they are equal.

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....And in your opinion, feminists are always right....?

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Originally Posted by alh_p

I am rather concerened about how this episode will go down overseas. It will easily be inflated into some sort of further evidence that Europe and Christians hate Muslims.

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Ditto, idiots. Lunatics handing lunatics a stick. These people who got attacked aren't a problem.

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Ditto, idiots. Lunatics handing lunatics a stick. These people who got attacked aren't a problem.

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Exactly, I can add very little to this.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

....And in your opinion, feminists are always right....?

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Nope, just sheltering myself from the inevitable leftist moral outrage.

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Originally Posted by alh_p

No, he de big Boss an no-one gonna risk gettin dere skull broke. /Orc

Wife beating is cowardly.

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Cos that's really what I'm saying yeah if you hit someone you're a hard man wth...

I agree wife beating is cowardly (they only do it behind closed doors, plus they wouldn't take on someone their own size), didn't say it wasn't, I was just asking why people think any sort of violence is cowardly, strangely the sort of people that say that sort of thing tend to be liberal types that would probably conscietiously object if they got called up. Doing the noble thing I don't think thouhg, covering their own arse more like.

I have had female friends who think that men should never hit women - even if they hit men first. Equality = men are punch-bags... Feminists often appear to want to keep all the historic "ladies first" / "women and children first" aspects and in the next breath be equal in everything else that they've not got an advantage in.

I'm sorry, but regardless of who hits me I am allowed to defend myself and yes in some cases that would include violence to almost any sub-group of individuals. I'm not going to look to beat up women, nor look to pick on persons in wheel chairs, but if there were two attacking me with knives I'd undertake measures to protect my own well-being before hangups about their gender. If that ends with bruises or broken bones so be it - as long as it doesn't end up with my liver skewered.

Violence is prehistoric. And civilisation is a thin veneer (a few thousand years tops) over a hell of a lot longer where the world is simply two camps - your friends / tribe and targets / resources to be killed and/or taken. Anyone who has played a contact sport knows the adrenaline high prior to the match starting and the way one can jog off with narry a twinge yet wake up the next morning with agony from aches and hitherto-unseen bruises. We're built to fight. Sure, we can think a bit more these days, but when the stress hormones kick in, we brain redistributes blood to the more "ancient" areas of the brain where introspection = death.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Nope, just sheltering myself from the inevitable leftist moral outrage.



Cos that's really what I'm saying yeah if you hit someone you're a hard man wth...

I agree wife beating is cowardly (they only do it behind closed doors, plus they wouldn't take on someone their own size), didn't say it wasn't, I was just asking why people think any sort of violence is cowardly, strangely the sort of people that say that sort of thing tend to be liberal types that would probably conscietiously object if they got called up. Doing the noble thing I don't think thouhg, covering their own arse more like.

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Violence isn't cowardly you can get hurt, abuse is cowardly, they can't/won't hurt you back . Got little problems with ending a dispute violently mamma didn't raise me all that well, but it's not my first choice, but if you are really asking for it be my vict- guest

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

...I was just asking why people think any sort of violence is cowardly, strangely the sort of people that say that sort of thing tend to be liberal types that would probably conscietiously object if they got called up. Doing the noble thing I don't think thouhg, covering their own arse more like.

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Do you conscientiously object to conscientious objectors? probably not your style, given the above.

I completely agree that we have bred/evolved in a way that suits us to violence but if civilisation means anything, it is that we try to supersede the more survivalist tendencies. I'd agree that civilisation itself rests, in no small part, on violence -but it is the creation of that non-violent space at its core, which defines civilisation for me.

Sad events.


Greece sees a lot of (illegal) immigration. Much of it passing through to go to Europe. Erm...to go further into Europe I mean. Little is done for these people. They are neither properly kept out by Greece (which the EU has now taken upon itself to an extent), nor properly taken care of. Whatever one may think of an illegal immigrant, he is a human being and this is Europe.

The result is that many Greek cities have squatter camps of (illegal) foreigners. (Not unlike the forests near Calais...) They hang out a bit, some have local jobs during the day. But most just sit there. They've ran out of money, they can't afford to travel further to Germany or Britain, they can't afford their return home.

The local Greeks get restless. The little square where their children played five years ago is now unsafe, unruly. Groups of Afghan men get picked up every night, by a van driven by two Albanian or Bulgarian mobsters, off to do something unclear. There is mutual aggression between the locals and the foreign squatters.

It is a nasty situation. Then occasionally hell breaks lose....

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Greece sees a lot of (illegal) immigration. Much of it passing through to go to Europe. Erm...to go further into Europe I mean. Little is done for these people. They are neither properly kept out by Greece (which the EU has now taken upon itself to an extent).

The local Greeks get restless. The little square where their children played five years ago is now unsafe, unruly. Groups of Afghan men get picked up every night, by a van driven by two Albanian or Bulgarian mobsters, off to do something unclear. There is mutual aggression between the locals and the foreign squatters.

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makes schengen seem like a thoroughly stupid idea, pity we joined it............... no wait, we didn't!:balloon2:

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

makes schengen seem like a thoroughly stupid idea, pity we joined it............... no wait, we didn't!:balloon2:

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Not sure that's really the point... The UK's non-membership of Schengen is why there are seperate camps near Calais. If the UK were part of the Schengen agreement, it would just mean there would be fewer people camped out near Calais. All you really have to feel smug about is the channel :grin:

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

makes schengen seem like a thoroughly stupid idea, pity we joined it............... no wait, we didn't!:balloon2:

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Neither did we.

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Originally Posted by alh_p

Not sure that's really the point... The UK's non-membership of Schengen is why there are seperate camps near Calais. If the UK were part of the Schengen agreement, it would just mean there would be fewer people camped out near Calais. All you really have to feel smug about is the channel :grin:

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but that is exactly the point.

while they are camped outside calais they are not in dear old blighty!

the border-hoppers are prevented from hopping the border, the channel on makes the legal enforcement more effective.

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

Neither did we.

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that was mainly because ireland didn't want to threaten the open-borders business with the UK was it not?

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

but that is exactly the point.

while they are camped outside calais they are not in dear old blighty!

the border-hoppers are prevented from hopping the border, the channel on makes the legal enforcement more effective.

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...but is France, or would the UK be, more awash with immigrants? Especially if the UK got more involved in EU external border policy and support, which it would have to have done.

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Originally Posted by alh_p

...but is France, or would the UK be, more awash with immigrants? Especially if the UK got more involved in EU external border policy and support, which it would have to have done.

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pardon?

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

that was mainly because ireland didn't want to threaten the open-borders business with the UK was it not?

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Correct the common travel across the border between the North and the Republic is far more economically important than any EU travel arrangement.

I laugh anyway at the people who hold up Shengen as some great moral force, when it came to it actually allowing people to work in EU only Britain, Ireland and Sweden allowed the Poles and other Baltic peoples in straight away.

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

Correct the common travel across the border between the North and the Republic is far more economically important than any EU travel arrangement.

I laugh anyway at the people who hold up Shengen as some great moral force, when it came to it actually allowing people to work in EU only Britain, Ireland and Sweden allowed the Poles and other Baltic peoples in straight away.

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and we were right to do so.

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

and we were right to do so.

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My brother married a Polish lady so he got a good deal at least :beam:

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Originally Posted by alh_p

...but is France, or would the UK be, more awash with immigrants? Especially if the UK got more involved in EU external border policy and support, which it would have to have done.

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Are you seriously saying that IF the UK had joined somehow they'd be able to police the Greek / Italian / Maltese borders so well that the problem of illegal immigrants would all but disappear? That's a flattering statement to make, but sadly it's not the case.

Think of a submarine. All those separate compartments so if there's a leak somewhere, the boat stays afloat. Maybe we could employ this somehow in the EU... Some soft of borders that were internal to prevent immigrants traipsing across Europe. We could check some sort of paperwork that proved who a person was and where they were from against a sort of searchable electronic list. Those that weren't on it could be detained and removed.

Just an idea...

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

My brother married a Polish lady so he got a good deal at least :beam:

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i'm practically in the same boat five years in.

my boss has married a finnish girl
a work-mate is going out with a polish girl
another mate is also going out with a polish girl
my brother is going out with a Venezuelan yank.

it's all the rage these days.

The riot police should have given some food back in the form of pepper spray though.

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

makes schengen seem like a thoroughly stupid idea, pity we joined it............... no wait, we didn't!:balloon2:

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Well, may I be allowed to channel a call for “bollox! :laugh4: etc.” here and point out:
(1) Schengen is for members of Schengen countries. I.e. those immigrants got nothing to do with that: they are a different problem. (One of housing and some sort of supervision so they don't go “missing”.)
(2) Schengen further lowers barriers among Schengen members which means the cost of doing business that involves crossing borders on a routine basis is lowered substantially. Time is money, remember?
(3) And purely subjectively it's plain awesome I can just go where-ever I want to in Schengen countries without being interrupted by some bored and short-tempered sod in a high visibility jacket. You might never leave the shores of the UK, I would not know, but I can trivially step on a train to visit Hussar or Louis should I chose to without somebody asking for my passport then handing it straight back to me without even looking at me. (Which is what it is like when you exit the ferry from Calais in Dover; the French don't even bother asking for anything.)

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

Well, may I be allowed to channel a call for “bollox! :laugh4: etc.” here and point out:
(1) Schengen is for members of Schengen countries. I.e. those immigrants got nothing to do with that: they are a different problem. (One of housing and some sort of supervision so they don't go “missing”.)
(2) Schengen further lowers barriers among Schengen members which means the cost of doing business that involves crossing borders on a routine basis is lowered substantially. Time is money, remember?
(3) And purely subjectively it's plain awesome I can just go where-ever I want to in Schengen countries without being interrupted by some bored and short-tempered sod in a high visibility jacket. You might never leave the shores of the UK, I would not know, but I can trivially step on a train to visit Hussar or Louis should I chose to without somebody asking for my passport then handing it straight back to me without even looking at me. (Which is what it is like when you exit the ferry from Calais in Dover; the French don't even bother asking for anything.)

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i'm afraid the bollox is all yours.

schengen's primary benefit of no internal borders only 'works' if the external border functions. it doesn't.

because we do not share schengen then people inside who shouldn't be cannot jump on eurostar or a plane and end up in britain.

as to my travel, i will be spending:
1. xmas in poland
2. next week in nuremburg
3. fortnight in poland back in august
4. week in berlin a year ago
5. fortnight in poland in july 09
6. weekend in spain in march 09

shall i go back any farther? and no, none of those border crossing was a real inconvenience.

so bollox indeed.

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

the external border functions. it doesn't.

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That, together with “we got illegal immigrants, now what?” is the real problem here. Schengen is not.

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because we do not share schengen then people inside who shouldn't be cannot jump on eurostar or a plane and end up in britain.

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Except that plenty often they manage it anyway.

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as to my travel, i will be spending:
1. xmas in poland
2. next week in nuremburg
3. fortnight in poland back in august
4. week in berlin a year ago
5. fortnight in poland in july 09
6. weekend in spain in march 09

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Exactly the point! Schengen makes it that bit easier, especially for companies because they can simply send in their employees without having to worry/wait for any of that anymore.

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

I have had female friends who think that men should never hit women - even if they hit men first. Equality = men are punch-bags... Feminists often appear to want to keep all the historic "ladies first" / "women and children first" aspects and in the next breath be equal in everything else that they've not got an advantage in.

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I remember this off-duty police officer who got beaten up by a bunch of kids (13-15 year olds, a group of them) in the middle of the street and ended up in hospital. The thing was, he wasn't allowed to fight back or he would have lost his job.

Sad times.

well, hitting a teenager who can hit you back is "definitely had more risk", and they are borderline of the "children" definition.

the problem is they hit 4-5 years old children, and women who don't put a fight back...

well... I was rather surprised when some comments here implies : women equality = they are equal to be hit and assumed they can fight back...

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

This isn't chauvinism, I remember a feminist teacher went crazy when one guy suggested mean should be able to hit women in retaliation if they are equal.

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That's because your teacher is an idoit

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Also, men that use violence are not cowards, that is pc bs since for some reason nowadays we call everyone cowards when we don't like them/disapprove of what they do. Taliban? Cowards. Guy tops himself? Coward. Guy goes looking for a fight where he could get hurt? Coward... yeah, whatever.

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Violence is an extreme act of cowardice in most cases, throwing things at peaceful muslims is cowardice. True violence is terrible. it is meant, in the best of scenarios to instill fear and in the worst case of scenarios kill. A whole gneration of watching violence on TV has us desensitized.

If you commit to using violence you should be prepared to die, if someone was pelting me with eggs and threatning my family. I would've gone over there kicked him in the testicles, gouged his eyes out and stomped on his trachea until I was sure he was dead.

If a muslim had done that in this scenario I wouldn't have faulted him because thats what violence is. That's what these Greeks were half ass commiting themselves to.

Be in it to win it son.

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

the problem is they hit 4-5 years old children, and women who don't put a fight back...

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Well here's an idea: don't bring your kids to public demonstrations.

There was already a lot of tension in Greece between the native population and the (illegal) immigrants. Not to mention, after having been brutalised by a Muslim colonial power for centuries, Islamic shows of force are a natural provocation in Greece. So leave the kids elsewhere when one decides to stage a massive open air Islamic religious manifestation.

Schengen, fast international bullet trains, and a single Euro are indispensible to me. The bliss of travelling from Bordeaux to Paris to Brussels to Amsterdam within a few hours in a bullet train, without border hassles, and without the need to carry three different currencies just to have a cup of coffee - it is all sheer genius.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Well here's an idea: don't bring your kids to public demonstrations.

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This was a religious service, not a demonstration, Louis. Which they had to conduct outside because they haven't got any other suitable place for it.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Schengen, fast international bullet trains, and a single Euro are indispensible to me. The bliss of travelling from Bordeaux to Paris to Brussels to Amsterdam within a few hours in a bullet train, without border hassles, and without the need to carry three different currencies just to have a cup of coffee - it is all sheer genius.

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I love it.

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

well, hitting a teenager who can hit you back is "definitely had more risk", and they are borderline of the "children" definition.

the problem is they hit 4-5 years old children, and women who don't put a fight back...

well... I was rather surprised when some comments here implies : women equality = they are equal to be hit and assumed they can fight back...

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None of those people should've been attacked in the first place. The whole point is: demonstration OK, violence not OK.

With the notion of women being equal to men therefore violence against women is the same as violence against men you should understand that women are given equal status to men in a somewhat idealised sense. In reality most women do not have parity with men in physical conflict, simply a matter of greater bulk alone.
But the point to convey here is not that women are de facto equals of men in physical confrontation (it all depends). The point is to convey violence towards any people who are peacefully going about their business is not OK, not even if they are extremely physically fit men in the prime of their life. Sanctity of your body. Your body is not to be abused and/or mutilated by someone else at will, no matter who you are or who the other is.

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

That's because your teacher is an idoit

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Men are on average much stronger than women, why can't people accept this fact. If a man hits a woman the chances are he will seriously hurt her, while the reverse is not true.

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

Violence is an extreme act of cowardice in most cases, throwing things at peaceful muslims is cowardice.

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How is it cowardice, it just seems like stupidity to me. These thugs are probably the type that do regularly engage in fights and would fight back if things escalated. Thugs, but not necessarily cowards.

I'm not defending these people I'm just objecting to the strange use of the word "coward".

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Men are on average much stronger than women, why can't people accept this fact. If a man hits a woman the chances are he will seriously hurt her, while the reverse is not true.

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You haven't be hit by a female then, obviously.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Men are on average much stronger than women, why can't people accept this fact. If a man hits a woman the chances are he will seriously hurt her, while the reverse is not true.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

You haven't be hit by a female then, obviously.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1YfxBn5oU4

The word "hit" is too vague to bother talking about though.

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How is it cowardice, it just seems like stupidity to me. These thugs are probably the type that do regularly engage in fights and would fight back if things escalated. Thugs, but not necessarily cowards.

I'm not defending these people I'm just objecting to the strange use of the word "coward".

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Yes. Cowardice is when you avoid something do to fear, not when you attack someone in anger. If someone attacks a child instead of a man, the avoiding of the man was cowardly and the attack on the child was vicious.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1YfxBn5oU4

The word "hit" is too vague to bother talking about though.

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I think that video supports my point though.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

I think that video supports my point though.

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Wow. Twenty-five.

At least midwest girls still know how to fight.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Men are on average much stronger than women, why can't people accept this fact. If a man hits a woman the chances are he will seriously hurt her, while the reverse is not true.

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I work out with Vibeke Skofterud a couple of times a week.

I'm not the only male in that gym she'd have no problem beating up... Nor is she the only fit female there.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Schengen, fast international bullet trains, and a single Euro are indispensible to me. The bliss of travelling from Bordeaux to Paris to Brussels to Amsterdam within a few hours in a bullet train, without border hassles, and without the need to carry three different currencies just to have a cup of coffee - it is all sheer genius.

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Why on earth would you want to visit Amsterdam?? The barren womb of Europe nowadays, all the neon-light in the world can't hide that it has become incredibly&painfully boring, labour's fetish for controling each and every aspect of your life and their neverending need of coin has turned this once lovely playful lady into a tired bloated whore.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

I work out with Vibeke Skofterud a couple of times a week.

I'm not the only male in that gym she'd have no problem beating up... Nor is she the only fit female there.

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How do exceptions disporove general trends?

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

How do exceptions disporove general trends?

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Ya, almost all men can easily beat up any woman. Saying otherwise is confusing how you would like it and how things are. Lemur's wife will most likely completely destroy me (and Lemur) but I'm no karate expert, if I was things would be different simply because I'm naturally stronger.

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Are you seriously saying that IF the UK had joined somehow they'd be able to police the Greek / Italian / Maltese borders so well that the problem of illegal immigrants would all but disappear? That's a flattering statement to make, but sadly it's not the case.

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That is what I was questioning, just how much of a disaster zone the UK would actually be if it had signed up to Schengen. Lets try to have some rational predictions, not "ZOMG ITS FALLOUT BOURTON-ON-THE-WATER!11!!!!"

I'm not saying that, with the UK's shining light of exacting border controls, the EU's border problems would be gone, but the issue might be better addressed if the UK were not content to simply entrench itself behind the channel.

External borders (between two displined countries of roughly comparable standards) are a major waste of time for people going about legal business, but scarcely an inconvenience for those with more malign intentions.

There are smarter instruments of catching criminals and preventing illegal immigration.

You can check the passports of everybody on the boat / car / train / plane, but at some point you need to realise that unless you transform your borders to an impregnable fortress like the Berlin Wall, you are really mostly just inconveniencing normal citizens with intrusive questions, cavity searches and hours of delay, while those with malign intentions simply cross the border at night in an unpatrolled forest / beach / country road.

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Originally Posted by alh_p

That is what I was questioning, just how much of a disaster zone the UK would actually be if it had signed up to Schengen. Lets try to have some rational predictions, not "ZOMG ITS FALLOUT BOURTON-ON-THE-WATER!11!!!!"

I'm not saying that, with the UK's shining light of exacting border controls, the EU's border problems would be gone, but the issue might be better addressed if the UK were not content to simply entrench itself behind the channel.

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Projecting hysteria on percieved hysteria doesn't help, why are you lefties always using caps? We don't, so what's the point?

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Projecting hysteria on percieved hysteria doesn't help, why are you lefties always using caps? We don't, so what's the point?

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It helps communicate the fury better. Are you just wingeing because I copied a leaf from your book with hyperbolic and sensationalist satire?

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

How do exceptions disporove general trends?

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Why is there any difference between a strong male hitting a weaker male, and a strong male hitting a weaker female?