MTW Viking Expansion Revisited - Help With Belated Mod?

Hi. I am trying to perform a rather simple modification of MTW - Viking Expansion. I know most have moved on to bigger and better things, but I don't want to move on and I like modding, so here I go.

What I have done so far is placed all factions that are in the MTW, including Horde, Swiss and Burgundians, and given them their own home provence with some basic buildings then let them carve out their own empires from there. Then, I got the bright idea of adding in some of the factions from the Viking Expansion.

I have done so with the Scots, though I do have a few problems I'd like some help with. I have added the Vikings recently, also.

1. My banners for my troops in the battles do not show the shields, only the colors.

2. Whenever the Viking pieces come into view, the game CTD. I had this problem with the Scots, but I just started copying and pasting files until I got lucky. It seems that this has something to do with the /pieces (I think it's in the textures sub). But I have no more files to copy/paste, so I don't understand why the game CTD when the Viking pieces come into view.

3. With the Scots, I gave them DarkAgeRoyalKnights instead of RoyalKnights (wanted some variety). They are supposed to be able to dismount before battle, and the option comes up, but the game won't let me dismount them.

I have other issues with the all-to-common CTD during the battles, but I want to address other problems first.

Can you help?

I am pretty frustrated with this, as I have been working on this off and on for about 3 years. I am almost at the point to pay someone ...

One last word, if I may.

My primary concern at this point is the inability to see the pieces of the added factions. CTD each time a new faction piece becomes visible. Please help?

I have added the Scots, the Welsh and the Vikings.

Whenever the Viking or Welsh pieces come into view, the game CTD. I had this problem with the Scots, but I just started copying and pasting files until I got lucky. It seems that this has something to do with the /pieces (I think it's in the textures sub). But I have no more files to copy/paste, so I don't understand why the game CTD when the Viking or Welsh pieces come into view.

I guess the first question would be, "What files have you created/modified?" I'm assuming you are modifying the Crusaders_unit/build_prod files, along with the Early.txt?

No.

I have created, and am pointing to, other files:

VikingsIncUnit.txt
VikingsIncBldg.txt
MyHeroes.txt
...
VikingsInc.txt is the base file, and is modified from Early.txt;
...

The Building and Unit files are copied, then modified, from the base/default files.

I have copied and pasted from the Viking files into these files to accomplish my goal.

Thus, for sake of your question, basically, yes, I have modified the files you have mentioned (as I copied them in their original form to other file names then modified them).

My answer may be confusing.

To be more detailed, here are commands I have in the viking.txt file (which is copied, then modified, early.txt):

Prodfiles:: UNITPROD "VikingsIncUnit.txt" BUILDINGPROD "VikingsIncBldg.txt"

SetNameData:: "campmap\\names\\MyHeroes.txt"

RegionSpecificFile:: "vikingsIncRegionSpecific.txt"

FactionSpecificFile:: "vikingsIncFactionSpecific.txt"

viking.txt is a copy of early.txt then modified.
VikingsIncUnit.txt is a copy of CRUSADER_UNIT_###.TXT
VikingsIncBldg.txt is a copy of CRUSADER_BUILD_##.txt
VikingsIncRegionSpecific.txt and VikingsIncFactionSpecific.txt are also copies of the original, then modified.

....

Thanks so much for your interest!

How are the new factions declared inside the VikingInc.txt, did you just copy the "DeclareFaction::" lines from Viking.txt into the new file or did you give the faction identifiers more descriptive text than FN_0X?

Copied directly, then changed to FN_0X to something more descriptive.

I copied directly, also, "SetStartLeader" lines.

Thinking that this may be Viking-specific (as I managed to somehow fix the Scots problem), I now have 2 with this problem; the vikings and the Welsh! Hahaha.

In case you need them, here are my lines:

DeclareFaction:: "FN_SCOTS" //06
DeclareFaction:: "FN_NORSEMEN" //07
DeclareFaction:: "FN_WELSH" //08

SetShieldImage:: FN_SCOTS "Scots_lge" "Scots_sml" "Scots" "Scots" "Scots" //SHL021
SetShieldImage:: FN_NORSEMEN "Vikings_lge" "Vikings_sml" "Vikings" "Vikings" "Vikings" //SHL022
SetShieldImage:: FN_WELSH "Welsh_lge" "Welsh_sml" "Welsh" "Welsh" "Welsh" //SHL023

SetStartLeader:: FN_SCOTS 0 8 3 1 1 1 2 0 0 2
SetStartLeader:: FN_NORSEMEN 0 7 1 0 0 0 0 0 1
SetStartLeader:: FN_WELSH 0 6 1 0 0 1 0 2

Have you mapped out which of the new factions will get what troops throughout the game? And have you set up the tech-tree for building the VI-specific troops in Early? You will need to modify the unit_prod file column 50 for faction availability, and column 17 for build requirements. Column 17 cannot be copied from the Viking unit prod, the buildings are different in the grand campaign and must match. When determining the faction troop allowances, don't forget about the era restrictions (column 20), you don't want a faction to lose the ability to train units at year 1205.

Your dismount problem might be a faction thing, I think you need to set the faction availability of Early(Royal)FootKnights, which dismounted DarkAge(Royal)Knights turn in to.

I assume you have copied/modified all faction-specific lines from Viking.txt to VikingInc.txt: GGConquestReward, SetFactionMusic, SetActiveFaction, SetTreasury, SetReligion, SetCulture, SetBehaviour, SetFactionCol, SetRegionOwner (for at least 1 province), AddOffice (for the MTW buildings, not VI), and PlaceLeader. I'm pretty sure you need these or the campaign will CTD.

Small bit of advice, try to get 1 faction working completely before adding the others. It will make it easier to hunt down the problems and will make adding the later ones a breeze. Fortunately you can just comment out lines in the startpos file. Faction declaration order in the startpos file (VikingInc.txt) does matter, getting the names.txt and faction_specific text stuff correct depends on this order.

Can't help with the shield thing (or any kind of graphical stuff) at the moment, I've only got access to the basic txt files on my work PC. :creep:

Have you mapped out which of the new factions will get what troops throughout the game? And have you set up the tech-tree for building the VI-specific troops in Early?

-- Yes, and it seems to be going okay, as I have assigned troops to different factions other than Vikings and tested.

Your dismount problem might be a faction thing, I think you need to set the faction availability of Early(Royal)FootKnights, which dismounted DarkAge(Royal)Knights turn in to.

-- Considered that, too. Will experiment later with this one. Thank you for your thought.

I assume you have copied/modified all faction-specific lines from Viking.txt to VikingInc.txt: GGConquestReward, SetFactionMusic, SetActiveFaction, SetTreasury, SetReligion, SetCulture, SetBehaviour, SetFactionCol, SetRegionOwner (for at least 1 province), AddOffice (for the MTW buildings, not VI), and PlaceLeader. I'm pretty sure you need these or the campaign will CTD.

-- All except "add title"; I thought I could do that later. But I will put those commands in there for them and see what happens.

Small bit of advice, try to get 1 faction working completely before adding the others. It will make it easier to hunt down the problems and will make adding the later ones a breeze. Fortunately you can just comment out lines in the startpos file. Faction declaration order in the startpos file (VikingInc.txt) does matter, getting the names.txt and faction_specific text stuff correct depends on this order.

-- Wilco.

Can't help with the shield thing (or any kind of graphical stuff) at the moment, I've only got access to the basic txt files on my work PC.

-- Okay.

_______________________

I will do the AddTitle and see if that changes anything. Thank you for your efforts.

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-- All except "add title"; I thought I could do that later. But I will put those commands in there for them and see what happens.

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Actually the "AddTitle" bit doesn't need to be in for the game to run, I forgot Novgorod is missing that anyway in the vanilla.

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-- Considered that, too. Will experiment later with this one. Thank you for your thought.

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Also, the Dismount option for DarkAgeRoyalKnights is set to default(No) in column 69, which means they can only dismount in a castle battle. Not sure if this was the situation you tried it in.

Can you post the Viking(faction) specific changes you have made? The Vikings are different because of their culture (pagan), their VI raiding skill, and their music/pics.

Welcome to the .Org, btw. ~:wave: Where are my manners....

Your manners are just fine, Drone. Thanks for helping.

I'm not 100% positive the lines you are looking for, but here goes:

DeclareFaction:: "FN_NORSEMEN" //07

SetFactionMusic:: FN_NORSEMEN 2

SetActiveFaction:: FN_NORSEMEN FT_MAJOR

SetTreasury:: FN_NORSEMEN 10000 8000 6000 4000

SetCulture:: FN_NORSEMEN PAGAN_CULTURE

SetBehaviour:: FN_NORSEMEN BARBARIAN_RAIDER

SetReligion:: FN_NORSEMEN REL_PAGAN


SetShieldImage:: FN_NORSEMEN "Vikings_lge" "Vikings_sml" "Vikings" "Vikings" "Vikings" //SHL022
SetFactionCol:: FN_NORSEMEN 235 235 235 255 0 0
(Note: Identical to the Danes, so I edited from 255 255 255 to 235 235 235 in order that the player -- me heh heh -- can tell the 2 apart)
SetRegionOwner:: ID_NORWAY FN_NORSEMEN

WHICH REMINDS me, I did forsee the issue of Pagan on Catholic lands, so I changed attributes for Norway:

SetAttributes:: ID_NORWAY "Norway" 0 PAGAN_CULTURE TEMPERATE AT_WESTERN_EUROPEAN -1 85 "Norway Castle_xzy" INLAND MOUNTAIN NO_RIVER TRUE


Continuing on:

SetStartLeader:: FN_NORSEMEN 0 7 1 0 0 0 0 0 1
PlaceLeader:: ID_NORWAY FN_NORSEMEN

~And I don't know what you mean by VI raiding skill; I have not been in any other files other than the ones mentioned.

I have also copied/pasted Famous Kings/Heroes in the Names file, and pointed the names to a name list nearly identical to the original Vikings. I find the Names files to be so tempermental that I keep my changes there to a minimum, and I certainly avoid names.txt/changes.txt -- Really bad luck with those in the past.

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~And I don't know what you mean by VI raiding skill; I have not been in any other files other than the ones mentioned.

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The raiding ability that allows them to loot full value from destroyed buildings, as long as they stay Pagan. They will convert to Catholicism when they occupy enough provinces that are majority Catholic (can't remember the exact circumstances). I can't remember what triggers this ability in the engine though.

Those entries look fine. For the moment, is the Viking king the only Viking unit you are starting with? Have you defined the Viking royal unit (column 49, unit prod file)?

Did some double checking and experimenting.

* King only.
* King leader unit is associated with, and even exclusive to, the Vikings.
* CTD when starting as Vikings, when Viking king comes into view, or when any Viking unit comes into view on the strategy map.

~sigh~ Your patience is extraordinary. Thanks for hanging in there with me. And, at least we're finding out what it's not, which is moving in the right direction.

What unit type is the Viking king, Huscarles?

Now that I'm home, I can look through the directory tree. I notice that campmap\pieces\units\pagan does not have a "shields" subdirectory. Maybe copy the one from christian into pagan (christain\viking subdir included)?

Ach! I had NO idea that you were waiting for me at home! So very sorry! I have been swamped with phone calls, and one of these happened to be a job offer! Whoopee! It looks like that after 8 months, I am FINALLY Employed! (giggle like a schoolgirl)

Anyway, more news ...

i got it working.

whew.

There are many directories in which graphics files are stored, I am sure you are aware of this:

\battle\flags
\campmap\gameend
\campmap\parchments\prebat
\campmap\shields
\campmap\sheilds\colour
\textures\campmap\castleflas
\campmap\pieces\units\christian\shields
\campmap\pieces\units\muslim\shields
\campmap\pieces\units\pagan\shields

I kept copying/moving files until it worked.

When it came to the Viking factions, the pattern didn't seem to fit on those last 3 entries; I put the Viking shield in the Pagan/Shields folder and CTD, then I put the welsh in christian\shields and ctd, so I finally ended up putting a copy of each and every faction shield in each and every one of those 3 folders.

But, no more CTD when I play Viking, Welsh or Scots.

I ~think~ that I also have the battle shields problem fixed, too. At least, the last time I went into the battle scenes (using troops I knew wouldn't cause a crash), my shields were there, big and pretty.

But stay tuned. I'm sure I'll get stumped again.

mwhaahahahahahaaaa sweet victory.

And I most certainly appreciate your help in all of this. Now, the project is not done; stay tuned; I still have the CTD during battles to figure out.

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Originally Posted by OldMan

Ach! I had NO idea that you were waiting for me at home! So very sorry! I have been swamped with phone calls, and one of these happened to be a job offer! Whoopee! It looks like that after 8 months, I am FINALLY Employed! (giggle like a schoolgirl)

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Congrats on the job!

And no, you didn't keep me waiting. I went home after your last post, didn't think I could help at that point without seeing the directory tree.

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mwhaahahahahahaaaa sweet victory.

And I most certainly appreciate your help in all of this. Now, the project is not done; stay tuned; I still have the CTD during battles to figure out.

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Great news. :bow:

Well, it looks like I'm going to have to start over. I wanted to avoid this, !!####!! My Unit Production File, I have been using a text editor and Gnome wouldn't load it. I didn't want to loose all my changes so far and start over, so I have literally spent HOURS trying to fix that file for Gnome to load it. The good news is, Gnome loaded it allright, but then MTW wouldnt!!! In the process, I have corrupted my Viking unit file (don't ask me how, copying/pasting and did something wrong!)

So, I'll be uninstalling/reinstalling MTW and then starting a new unit file, adding the Viking units again, and then doing all my changes all over again.

Sheesh.

But I do have a question about Gnome.

It is only giving me 71 columns; the last 3 columns are all combined. It's doing this on all my unit production files. It's not supposed to be doing that, is it? Is there anything I can do to fix it?

I only get 71 columns in Gnome. The last 3 columns in the text file are actually combined in Gnome, deals with how the unit is available as mercenaries. You can't see all 3 usually unless you select a unit box for that column, then you see YES/NO, an era distinction, and a faction distinction. You might want to check that box for all units to verify that you aren't missing a column for a unit.

Ah-ha! So after the "yes/no", it indicates which factions are eligible to hire such as mercenaries, and early/high/late for doing so! Is that it?

Also, after doing quite a few modifications in the unit file, the game is now not showing up. That last box; Does that have anything to do with it? Or do I have a problem somewhere else that I need to look?

(Cripes, I'm getting closer than I have in 3 years of working on this silly thing!)

Nevermind. I got it. A Couple missing lines from the startpos file and some junk from the Viking Expansion in the UnitProd file. Got the Danes, Scots, Welsh, Mercians, English, Sicilians, italians, Papacy (non-playable), (with as many factions that are bunched up, he's gonna be on excommunicating *** ), Germans, Hungarians, Polish, French, Aragonese, Spanish, Almohad, Turks, Irish, Egyptians, Byzantines, Golden Horde, Novgorod, Russians (which I may take out, haven't decided yet), Swiss and Burgundians -- and I think that's all. Going to ignore the Saxons (assumed they became or were obsorbed by the English) and the Picts (assuming they became or were absorbed by the Scots). Gonna throw in the Northumbrians, though, and then work from there and see if i can't get all 30+ factions vying for control.

If I remember correctly, there is a hard limit of 31 factions (+ rebels), so you will need to fit under that. Are you going to have both Novgorod and the Russians? In vanilla they are essentially the same faction, just named differently based on era.

Haven't decided yet on the Russian thing. Maybe so, being as I do not want to mess around with flags/directories etc. that will mess up the Vanilla game. I like to play it sometimes.

You've been a lot of help and I really appreciate it, but I do have yet another question ....

I tried following the directions precisely of John Duke's guide for not CTD during battles. So, I copied/renamed Peasants folder, called it Custom0, renamed all files within with Peasant in the name replacing with Custom0 then tried to play.

"Description label is unknown. Clumn 27 row 1. Custom0".

What did I do wrong? Any ideas? I've reviewed my work and the directions, and don't see anything different than what is described.

Also, there is a file there called "Peasants"; Should that be renamed as well to "Custom0s"?

Nevermind. Got it. Found it in another thread. Must be all caps.

CUSTOM0 not Custom0.

Not crashing in battles. And those Joms Vikings are pretty tuff.

Problems with labels. Guess I will have to play around in names.txt and changes.txt. Don't want to. They have been touchy with me in the past. Of course, I have been doing ok with the FactionSpecific file, and that one gave me fits in the past too.

The labels are tough, if I remember correctly everything has to be in the order the factions are declared. Very easy to mess things up.

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Originally Posted by OldMan

Haven't decided yet on the Russian thing. Maybe so, being as I do not want to mess around with flags/directories etc. that will mess up the Vanilla game. I like to play it sometimes.

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One thing you might want to try is to work in a directory copy. The standard way of playing multiple mods of MTW is to do a fresh install/VI/patch, and then copy the entire directory to another pathname. All you need to do then is create a desktop shortcut to the new directory's Medieval .exe to play the mod, while the vanilla game is untouched. It also leaves you an unmodified set of files for reference when playing around with your changes.

There are files everywhere in this program! When it comes to graphics, I am just guessing at moving/copying/naming/renaming files.

Right now, my Mercians have the Welsh prebat shield and my Welsh army does not have graphics when marching into battle. Is the latter, though, due to that CUSTOM0, CUSTOM1 thing that I did to stop the crashing?

If possible, can someone explain to me what these different folders are for and what files it's looking for?

\battle\flags FLAG####.TGA/ [FactionName].LBM
\campmap\gameend [FactionName]_win.BIF
\campmap\parchments\prebat SHL###.BIF
\campmap\shields [FactionName]_lge.BIF/[FactionName]_sml.BIF
\campmap\shields\colour [FactionName]_lge.BIF/[FactionName]_sml.BIF
\textures\campmap\castleflags [CountryName].BIF
\textures\campmap\Prebat SHL##.BIF
\campmap\pieces\units\christian\shields BIF files
\campmap\pieces\units\muslim\shields BIF files
\campmap\pieces\units\pagan\shields BIF files

I know that there are a lot of questions in this post, and that they are likely not short-and-sweet answers, so no rush.

Enjoy your thanksgiving!

Oh. And I did find some stuff from the XL mod that I'm playing with. Trying to add the Bohemians. Problem is, the Prebat shields from campmap\parchments\prebat are all nonexistent! What can I do? Is there another file I can copy/paste?

Well, i'm getting it. Not sure how, with all these graphics files ... pretty confusing about what goes where and why ... but, I'm working on Faction #30 now. Not including the Russians, but I am leaving them as "declared" so that I don't mess up the already confusing graphics situations. So, less the Russians and the Rebels, that's 28 active factions, less the Papacy, which I am leaving a minor faction, that leaves 27 playable factions. That should keep me entertained for a couple years!!

Sounds like fun. How have you set up the faction AIs for balance? Have you tried running with the -ian switch to see how things pan out over time?

I have no idea what you're talking about ...

heh heh ...

I do have a problem, though ... My Welsh generals are coming out with 0 to 2 loyalty. I have built and built, and I have expanded my kingdom from 1 piddly little provence ... I have trade routes stretching from Wales to Finland to Naples ... but no loyalty and no influence.

Is there a way to alter this? I mean, I don't want my Welsh generals to have absolute loyalty, of course, so I don't want a huge change. But as I seem to be doing what works for other factions and I have no general loyalty ....

When you say "Faction AI's" are you referring to when to build what, that's in the prodfiles? Or, are you fixing to introduce me to a new file ...

Doublechecked a couple things.

* The Welsh personality is CATHOLIC_TRADE (and they are not Crusaders).
* In one provence alone, my trade income is 1120.
* In all of my provences, the loyalty of my people is 200%.
* My King's virtue is "Magnificent Builder" with pluses to general loyalty and happiness.

Yet:

* My generals for new troops produced are loyalty 0-2.

Does this seem to you like there is something wrong?

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Originally Posted by OldMan

I do have a problem, though ... My Welsh generals are coming out with 0 to 2 loyalty. I have built and built, and I have expanded my kingdom from 1 piddly little provence ... I have trade routes stretching from Wales to Finland to Naples ... but no loyalty and no influence.

Is there a way to alter this? I mean, I don't want my Welsh generals to have absolute loyalty, of course, so I don't want a huge change. But as I seem to be doing what works for other factions and I have no general loyalty ....

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What is the Welsh king's influence? A low influence is the main factor for low loyalty.

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Originally Posted by OldMan

When you say "Faction AI's" are you referring to when to build what, that's in the prodfiles? Or, are you fixing to introduce me to a new file ...

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The AI strategy a faction will use is declared in the startpos file (VikingsInc.txt for your mod). The "SetBehaviour::" line will determine the campaign map strategy the AI will apply to a faction. This will determine how aggressive a faction is, and how the faction will focus it's economy. You probably copied the VI faction behaviours to your mod, which might not be the best fit for the larger map/campaign. The unit_prod file (column 15) has weights used to determine recruiting chances (don't ask me how they work exactly though) based on the AI type. The build_prod file (column 10) has the same weighting for buildings.

Well, then I need to build my King's influence somehow ....

Well, the added factions are expanding, making alliances, attacking, defending ... In fact, the Welsh, Irish and Mercians tend to gang up on poor England and eliminate them ... For running crusades, I'm not sure about that one yet, as few crusades have been declared by anybody. I think this has to do with Europe being so crowded that they are not developing very quickly. Lots of economical and conflict issues goes on, and when you're going broke and in a war with your neighbors, that might not be the best time to launch a crusade. (I wouldn't). The English have finally done so in this current game, and in this current game, they are growing. None of my new/added factions have done so yet; but they are probably struggling economically. A few factions have been eliminated, so we'll see in time as the game plays out. I'll run a few more test games and see if their personalities need adjusted.

My King's influence?

An embarassing 3.

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Originally Posted by OldMan

My King's influence?

An embarassing 3.

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That will do it. :yes:

The Irish and Mercians are expansionist AIs, with so little room on the British Isles it's no surprise the English tend to get bumrushed. For crusades, did you add the new factions to the Chapter House faction field in the build_prod?

You can use the -ian switch to change factions during a game, to see how they are progressing and what their focus is. You can also use it to run the game automatically (without a human player), which lets you do several campaigns quickly while observing how everything balances out.

How do I throw that -ian switch?

Thanks a lot for your help. After 3 years working on this, I finally have it done. Now, it's just a matter of ironing out the kinks.

Figured out the -ian switch. Must be missing something, though. Can only see factions 1 through 10. Is there a way to see more? I read somewhere else that I won't be able to switch between all the ones I have. But can I switch between more than 10?:inquisitive:

And I looked closely for a way to add new historical events. All I find are labels. I don't find anywhere to put in dates, pictures, sounds. So I guess it's hardwired in the program?:book:

You can access factions 1-10 (in order declared in the startpos file) by using 1, 2, 3, ... 0. To access factions 11-20, you use Shift+1, Shift+2, etc. I can't remember how to get factions 21-30, maybe Ctrl+?

The historical events are hard-coded in, unfortunately. I believe total conversion mods have to avoid the time-frame to prevent the Golden Horde from showing up...

Thanks. :2thumbsup:

I am just going through the different factions doing some fine-tuning with starting buildings, starting troops, etc. to try for a little balance. I don't believe this game is, ever will be, or was ever meant to be balanced. But, I am trying to make sure that each faction has the opportunity to win in the hands of a human intelligence on the "normal" setting.

I do have a small thing that does irk me just a little bit, but it's not a catastrophic thing. I have 2 Barbarian_Raider personalities: The Vikings and the Golden Horde. All portraits are mongoloid, including the Vikings. I was wondering if there was a way to refer the Norsemen to a different portrait folder while leaving the Golden Horde be? I have looked very carefully at all the text files I have, my mods, other mods, Vanilla text files, and I don't see anything, so I doubt that there is. But, do you know something I don't? I'd prefer for my Norsemen to show the Viking portraits and my Golden Horde to remain unaltered.

In the VI startpos, Viking.txt, there is a line: PortraitsOverride:: FN_07 "vikings". I think this is what you need, changing FN_07 to whatever faction designation you have for the Vikings.

heeeheeehaaaa! That worked like a champ! Thanks again!

Hi, I'm back! It's been a couple weeks -- real life caught up with me and I had to do some real work for a change.

Anyway, I have it pretty much sorted out, I guess. All the factions I wanted are there, playtested and all, and all factions are (sometimes) winnable under the "Normal" setting under the hands of a human intelligence. And, that long list of titles, names, etc. is all done.

But, there are a couple more things I may be interested in doing, if you're still willing to help :-)

First, that "region owner table"; What is that? Is that anything I need to modify for game play?

Also, second, I do notice, that the Pope is often not as fast to cry foul and excommunicate me when I play a Catholic faction and attack other Catholics. Oh, he sometimes eventually gets around to it, but he just doesn't seem to be as interested in doing that as he had in the past. Wondered why that was, and thought maybe this would have something to do with it?

Last but not least. Is there a way to create Glory Goals for the factions I've added? Has anyone else ever created glory goals for new factions? If so, how so?

Thanx!

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Originally Posted by OldMan

Hi, I'm back! It's been a couple weeks -- real life caught up with me and I had to do some real work for a change.

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I definitely know what you mean there...

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Originally Posted by OldMan

First, that "region owner table"; What is that? Is that anything I need to modify for game play?

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Haven't had my morning coffee yet, so I'm a little slow. Do you mean the SetRegionOwner lines in the startpos?

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Originally Posted by OldMan

Also, second, I do notice, that the Pope is often not as fast to cry foul and excommunicate me when I play a Catholic faction and attack other Catholics. Oh, he sometimes eventually gets around to it, but he just doesn't seem to be as interested in doing that as he had in the past. Wondered why that was, and thought maybe this would have something to do with it?

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If I remember correctly, you reduced the size of each faction at the start, right? I believe excomms happen when larger factions attack smaller ones, if everyone is small, or grows roughly equally by taking the unaffiliated provinces, I could see it taking a while before the warnings come.

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Originally Posted by OldMan

Last but not least. Is there a way to create Glory Goals for the factions I've added? Has anyone else ever created glory goals for new factions? If so, how so?

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My understanding is that the Glorious Achievments are hardcoded, so I don't think you can do anything with them.

Hi! Happy new year and thanks for answering!

Actually, I was referring to a hex file in the MTW main folder titled regowner_table?

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Also, in case others are monitoring this thread, I used some material from the mods "Redux" and "XL", so thanks to you guys who worked on those mods; I found it very helpful in accomplishing this one.

I've never looked at that file before, I have no idea what that does. Curious. :inquisitive:

:help: :furious3:

Throughout my years of playing this game, I have stuck with the Catholic factions. Due to this modification and the need to test play, I have played the Egyptians and the Almohads, but always to defeat.

-- I build a great kingdom with lots of troops, lots of influence, rich economy, loyal generals.
-- Inevitably, Catholic factions or 2 start messing with me and launching crusades
-- I have tried weathering the Catholic attacks, but the always just widdle me down to eventual defeat
-- Because I can't just weather it, I become aggressive, and pursue my protagonist
-- I do well at defeating my enemy, generally obliterating the faction, but I end up in Catholic lands
-- I sac the papacy to stop the crusades
-- I put 2 or more Alims on conquered Catholic provences, and watch the percentage of Muslim followers grow to my favor
-- Revolts. I beat them back, and it doesn't matter what I do: Release All, Enslave Ringleaders or Enslave All, the revolts are incredibly persistent!
-- I build buildings that create happiness, build economy, etc. but it just doesn't seem to help
-- Meanwhile, the Catholics start sinking my navy
-- I am developing, training men and Jihads, to keep what I have and to replenish my diminishing troops, so I can't replace the navy as my hands are full
-- Because of the revolts and everyone else that smells blood, my troops become diminished
-- I can not push forward, and I can not hold what I have, especially since ships are being sunk, which makes my entire empire vulnerable
-- As I am slowly being defeated, I try to pull back, giving up provences, so that I can again focus on navy and get back to developing
-- Civil war, always
-- Armies cut to a fraction of what they were by my own men, development set back, no influence, vulnerable seashores, more civil war from my pissed off generals, aggravating the situation, my new rebel faction leader, little more influence than the original, downward spiral, slow defeat.

--------

So, what's the deal here? How do you win with Muslim factions? Why don't my Alims seem to quell uprisings by converting the populace, like my Priests and Bishops are able to do? If pursuing my protagonists overextends my troops bringing inevitable defeat and weathering the protagonists' attacks defeats me slowly, then how do I win with the Muslim factions?

You would probably get a better answer in the Main Hall, but I'll give what limited knowledge I have.

Long version

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldMan

-- I build a great kingdom with lots of troops, lots of influence, rich economy, loyal generals.
-- Inevitably, Catholic factions or 2 start messing with me and launching crusades
-- I have tried weathering the Catholic attacks, but the always just widdle me down to eventual defeat

---

This is expected, but you should use the climate to your advantage. Make the Catholics march the length of the map, boiling in their armor the whole time. Then use skirmishers and fast horse to make them march more. Fatigue will be the deciding factor.

On the strategic level, don't just let the crusade retreat. Attack the province it retreats to if possible. Destruction of the marker will cause the crusading faction leader's influence to drop by 2, potentially kicking off a civil war and ending your troubles with that faction for a while.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldMan

-- Because I can't just weather it, I become aggressive, and pursue my protagonist
-- I do well at defeating my enemy, generally obliterating the faction, but I end up in Catholic lands
-- I sac the papacy to stop the crusades

---

Good strategy if you can supply the expeditionary force. You will need to equip these armies with troops better suited to temperate lands.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldMan

-- I put 2 or more Alims on conquered Catholic provences, and watch the percentage of Muslim followers grow to my favor
-- Revolts. I beat them back, and it doesn't matter what I do: Release All, Enslave Ringleaders or Enslave All, the revolts are incredibly persistent!
-- I build buildings that create happiness, build economy, etc. but it just doesn't seem to help

---

Imams will convert faster if you can get them. Build Mosques first, they will convert the population and increase happiness. When you move into the province, the Christian/Orthodox churches are destroyed, so all the happiness bonuses from them are lost right off the bat. Send spies in with the Imams/Alims to reduce unrest. I also think the piety of the governor affects the province if it isn't converted yet. You want to assign high dread, low piety governors to these provinces.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldMan

-- Meanwhile, the Catholics start sinking my navy
-- I am developing, training men and Jihads, to keep what I have and to replenish my diminishing troops, so I can't replace the navy as my hands are full

---

I don't know for sure about this, but losing ship battles might affect your faction leader's influence. Not much can can probably do about this except to dance your fleets. Move them each turn and they may stay alive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldMan

-- Because of the revolts and everyone else that smells blood, my troops become diminished
-- I can not push forward, and I can not hold what I have, especially since ships are being sunk, which makes my entire empire vulnerable
-- As I am slowly being defeated, I try to pull back, giving up provences, so that I can again focus on navy and get back to developing
-- Civil war, always

---

When you give up the provinces, you take an influence hit, hence the civil war.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldMan

-- Armies cut to a fraction of what they were by my own men, development set back, no influence, vulnerable seashores, more civil war from my pissed off generals, aggravating the situation, my new rebel faction leader, little more influence than the original, downward spiral, slow defeat.

---

Short version:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Camels, camels, camels, camels, camels. ~D

Thanks, I eventually won by taking your advice, as well as blockading my shorelines. I also worked East to West, leaving the Western Europe provences until the last, as they seem to be most prone to revolts.

I did run into another little snag in my mod that I hoped you could help me with.

When the Vikings are obliterated and resurface, they always seem to resurface with archers and urban militia. Hordes of them. No housecarles, no thralls, no landsmen. I looked in the unitprod file and found the column about "rebelling troops that this unit can mix with" column. By looking at what was being brought up in the resurgence, I gathered that I needed to change the numbers for the housecarles, thralls and landsmen to 15. But, i noticed this: Pagan Rebels, Pagan loyalists, Pagan Peasants, Pagan Bandits, Pagan Zealots. Which do I choose? I ask because the Golden Horde are also Pagan, and I'd rather not have Viking troops spring up on them, especially being on the other side of the map.

Do you have any insight on this? When "The Vikings Reappear", I'd like to see them equipped with Viking Thralls, Viking Landsmen and Housecarles; and, maybe some other Viking troops; not just Urban Militia, Archers and Spearmen.

urban militia, archers, and spearmen are generic soldiers, available to almost all factions.

huscarles, landdsmen and thralls are (i assume) only available to the viking faction.
i assume that when a faction reappears, it does so with units that it would be able to produce. if the golden horde appears, they are unable to produce the viking-only units and will get what they normally get.

in short, unless the faction can actually produce the unit, it won't get the unit in reappearances.
also, I recommend bumping up the value to something a bit higher than 15, otherwise they'll get an even mix of generic units and viking units (unless this is of course your intention).

edit: yay 1000 posts for me! :laugh4:
edit pt2: i'm no expert on reappearances and rebellions and other situations in which the game mass produces units like that, so please take my advice with a grain of salt.

To add to Raz's comments, do the viking style troops have the Early-era restriction, and are your re-emergences happening in Early or later?

Sorry, Drone! Has been a while since I've been here! You asked me a question, who knows when, and I never got back to it!

My apologies.

Raz, I solved the problem by taking your advice and bumping up numbers. Vikings are now re-emerging with Viking troops.

Drone, for era restrictions, I bumped most of the Viking troops up to "Early, Late" and/or "All Periods".

No worries, real life does happen. Welcome back. :bow:

Thanks for the welcome! Just got away from MTW for a while. I'm like that. I kinda "cycle" through my games (all old games) and spend a couple months beating it (again) then going to the next.

Well, it seems that in fixing the Viking re-emergence, I messed up the Almohad re-emergence, and probably the Egyptian and Turkish, too. My Vikings are now coming fully equipped with Thralls and Housecarles. Some archers and stuff like that. They don't come back strong, like the other factions do, but I'm okay with that.

Now, since I modified things so that the Vikings came back strong, now the Almohads are coming back loaded with -- yep, you guessed it -- archers and urban militia! Sheesh!

I wish I understood the numbers. Since I don't, I'm just making educated guesses at what the numbers mean. (Been a few months, so I don't even remember how I did it, would have to review. I think some of the pointers are here in this thread).

Some label problems, too. The Irish Rui Ri wants to be referred to as the Irish King once in a while, and some faction introduces itself as the Bohemians in a marriage letter, when they are actually another faction (forget which). I'm not too bothered about those, though.

Building AI. Now, that is a problem. The Golden Horde can NOT develop the way the AI has it build it's buildings. It's building all the wrong things. On the other hand, they are a Barbarian Raider, and so are the Vikings, and both have different building requirements. Oh well, I guess the Horde won't be much of a challenge when you're playing against them, and the Vikings are a challenge only for a short time. (Most of the time. One game I played, the Vikings ran wild all over Eastern Europe. The Horde, I've never experienced them developing. They always get squashed, which if they aren't around on the year that the Horde emerges, then they emerge again. So, when I'm down in that area, I try to ally with them to keep that from happening).

Anywho, imperfect but fun to play. And thanks for your help and advice, Drone and Raz.

Well, every time I think I'm about done, a new issue pops up. Whew.

I tried to play out a battle with the Mercians, whom I gave access to Chivalric Knights. Yep, CTD.

I also know with the Mercians, the banner shields are black. Maybe this has something to do with the issue. Dunno.

Also the issue may be the same as the issue where we had to go in and use Peasant0 etc.

I will try to fix the banner shields first, then go from there.

I am open to any suggestions.