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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...ing?CMP=twt_fd
America has millions of homeless people. Detroit has thousands of empty houses.
Instead of what I consider an obvious answer to both problems, the city of Detroit plans to demolish the homes....
Could someone please explain how this is anything but insanity?
In America, -1+1=2.
If the "logic" is the same as the UK
You can't force people to leave where they are as this would damage social cohesion.
It would discriminate against the homeless people forcing them to live in a deprived area.
More prosaically, if you give them the houses, who is going to pay for the upkeep? In the UK that of course is the state. By demolishing them you are reducing future outgoings with a one off cost.
~:smoking:
Not even the homeless want to live in Detroit.
You don't understand how politics work in Detroit. Yes, it is insanity.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Ach, just sell it back to the French for a hundred dollars. They can deal with that kinda stuff!
The same happens in other places in the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
The same happens in Ireland.
The same happens in the rest of Europe too. Heck, it happens here as well! I think it's called "capitalism" or something...
OK, so they give the homeless the houses. Then what? Who looks after the houses?
What is your solution to the monetary aspect of this? So far you appear to be solving hunger by giving everyone a meal.
~:smoking:
People aren't capable of looking after a house?Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
Anyway, it'll be a lot better to let the houses fall into ruin with someone living inside, than letting them fall in ruin while people are living in the front yard.
Silly Gruaniad. They are too PC to say just why Detroit is sinking into poverty and why nobody wants to move in there.
No thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hax
Lille, Marseille and Paris outside the periphery is quite enough. One can only afford so many third world metropoles.
Detroit is the great scare of Europe. America can abandon Detroit. And it can abandon New Orleans. But one can not abandon Paris.
The solution seems to be to physically concentrate wealth and privilege within parts of the European cities, and raise the drawbridge. I predict the return of the city wall.
I'm quite surprised that this year's Devils Night didn't already solve this problem. :inquisitive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g09GtnWdBjc
No they're not. There are vast number of council houses attesting to this fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
If people wanted to, they could have squatted in these houses. As they haven't they either have no drive or no interest in doing so.
~:smoking:
LOL... Detroit? Detroit a victim of capitalism? Even funnier. Nope Detroit is a victim of democrat politics as its worse and the population is too stupid to put anyone else in power. You couldn't put the homeless up there because it would cost too much to protect them from the "residents" that are already there sucking on the governments teet. Horetore, you should move up there and show these people the errors of their ways.
I'm not... blacks and democrats make a deadly mix for any city's infrastructure and treasury. Cold hard truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
They're not alone. California is merely rich enough to avoid this fate for the time being by the thought of the state going belly up being too terrible for anyone to contemplate it.
It's not the race, it's any group that feels they're better off with handouts than trying. Traditionally Democrats give more handouts so they'll be voted in.
~:smoking:
In all seriousness I don't think many people, even homeless people who could get a free house, would want to move to Detroit. The reason the city wants to demolish homes is because it can't pay for services - water, fire and police to largely unpopulated areas. Large amounts of homeless people shipped in, who would need services but wouldn't contribute much in the way of taxes, would just make things worse. Also, vacant homes serve as shelter for criminal activity.
Doesn't help that the last mayor was extremely corrupt.
CR
Detroit is a loss cause, much like most homeless people in the US. Although Horetore's idea is noble and has good intentions, it would only make the situation worse. Our country's homeless are homeless mainly by their own bad decisions and choices they made in their lives. Cities like Detroit, East St Louis, New Orleans, Newark, Oakland, etc, are in the condition they are in due to bad choices in the polling booths. You can only tax the successful so much before they leave and you lose that revenue.
Very true. Memphis is only slightly better off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
Beautiful cities across America have been ravaged by black leadership. It is a vicious cycle. As the black leadership starts to show poor judgment, those with the resources, mostly whites, escape, leaving only poor working class blacks who habitually vote in more black leadership.
Black mayors aren't any better or worse than white ones.
The bad black mayors are (generally) the ones who get elected by race baiting; making the election about who's going to be on the side of black people.
It's hard to feel sorry for the people of Detroit, though, since they kept on voting in idiots.
CR
Isn't the California issue that they've set up a system that easily stops budget cuts and tax rises? Thus making a balanced budget impossible when its gone unbalanced?Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
heh my brother lived there for a while, I don't think he's going to revisit it very soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by drone
@Horetore, leftist logic pur sang, you can house them there but there's no work, that is why the houses are empty deleted by SF
1-1=0
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Stop talking. You are looking extremely foolish to those who know any shred of truth about the city. This isn't the fault of capitalism. In fact, capitalism is what made this city great during the first half of the 20th century.
Sadly, yes.Quote:
I'm not... blacks and democrats make a deadly mix for any city's infrastructure and treasury. Cold hard truth.
Correct. The current mayor, Dave Bing, is black and not a bad mayor at all. He's doing his best to attempt to salvage Detroit, but I don't see it improving to the level of most American cities in my lifetime.Quote:
Black mayors aren't any better or worse than white ones.
The bad black mayors are (generally) the ones who get elected by race baiting; making the election about who's going to be on the side of black people.
It's hard to feel sorry for the people of Detroit, though, since they kept on voting in idiots.
CR
If you are referring to a case you made before, about looking for work out of area, the problem is, the set-up costs are too great. It isn't easy abandon everyone you know, with no money to your name, to go some where strange, with even less money, no house, etc, to get a job. It only works if you are a high flier and already got a job in that area.Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
The admin assistant where I work moved for the job. So did her boss. Neither are "high fliers". I'm not really, and I moved too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
Journeymen used to do this sort of thing all the time, so it is possible, but these days any thought of discomfort makes something impossible.
~:smoking:
Sadly, most of the buildings slated for demolition in Detroit are likely to be demolished anyway -- the cost of bringing them up to levels where they can get a C.O. is virtually prohibitive. Old physical plant, under-maintained and then unmaintained for years....not gonna work.
Moreover, the non-infrastructure services in Detroit are sketchy. They have only 8 grocery stores within city limits...for 800k people.
Only reason to go to Detroit is to go down to the Joe and watch a Wings game (it's funny that the "DETROIT SUCKS" chant that Chicago fans do is applicable to basically all but what they are targeting). The Pistons wisely are in Auburn Hills and the other two teams suck. Like a couple of blocks in downtown are actually decent, but yes, that city is a very sad sight. :shame:
Luckily, most of Detroit's suburbs are very nice. Oakland County is one of the most affluent counties in the country, plus it is the home county of yours truly. :smug:
Pfft you ritzy Oakland County people... make me sick :D.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
Check this out. The ruins of Detroit.
I would say it was some of what HoreTore said, some of what others have said. Bad leadership (I'm not going to go into the race issue), but then again, companies of all products are trying to shift production to the lowest labor cost region and unionized Detroit probably wasn't the best place.
Ye Gods, pictures really bring it home. It's so sad to see those majestic buildings falling into disrepair.Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
~:smoking:
Indeed, you wonder who left them in such disrepair in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
Little bits of America have already went down the drain. Indeed, you wonder what parts of the country are next.
I'll be on the sidelines with my popcorn, yo.
It began with Coleman Young.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
How? I am sure elected officials are joyriders in the USA, but they are all hamstrung in comparison to European counterparts and America is the land of capitalism. So any businesses which end up going down the drain are their own fault (etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
Man, I just checked, and Oakland county dropped from 4th back in the day to outside of the top 25 now... :sad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
http://www.theoaklandpress.com/artic...7316044502.txt
Quote:
The auto industry implosion and recession has knocked Oakland County from the list of America’s wealthiest counties.
Oakland County — once considered the fourth wealthiest county in the country — is not even among the 25 richest counties in the nation anymore, according to a Forbes.com survey.
Oakland has ranked itself as the 10th richest county based on per capita income, a different variable from that used by Forbes.com.
Census Bureau data shows the recession has reduced the median household income to $61,907 last year compared with $103,035 in 2000.
I happen to be one of those people as well and no, Horetore's original idea isn't of much value. I understand his motives, however his idea is totally detached from reality simply because he has no clue what he's talking about. No homeless man in his right mind would wanna end up in a former crackhouse in Detroit. They have a beter chance of surviving outdoors on a winter night in Minneapolis than in that rat infested no man's land. I have high hopes for Detroit's new mayor though, he seems to be a no-nonsense business oriented guy. We'll see, he definitely has his work cut out for him and it'll take decades to bring Detroit out of the abyss it's in right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
What? Guys come on. You REALLY need to do some background research here if you want to carry on a discussion. Young was mayor for 20 years and caused what is known as white flight by being openly racist and telling white people to get out of his city. Corruption thrived, and no one in their right mind wanted anything to do with Detroit. Hence, it's suberbs grew properous and the city declined into a craphole. This isn't the fault of capitalism, but god awful leadership and a racist mentality. If you wanted to challenge anything in Detroit, you were racist. Dennis Archer (two mayors ago) did his best to try to fix Detroit, but he got fed up and left. Kwame Kilpatrick, who now serving 7-12 years in prison while facing fresh bribery and tax evasion charges, took any gain Archer accomplished, and reversed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
That's a result of the auto companies going down. There are no more union employees making 100k a year with lifetime medical benefits and pensions. The businesses they supported are also suffering or non existant. Coupled with Detroit and the collapse of the auto companies, Michigan has fallen quite a bit from her former glory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
According to the new census data, Michigan is going to lose a house seat in Congress because so many have left the state when the jobs went away. In fact, Michigan is the only state to have a net loss in population since 2000.
I can't imagine why....Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
I just told you, it's because the jobs went away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
Why did the jobs go away?Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
You want the answer you are looking for, or the realistic answer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
A realistic one would work for me...Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
Companies left to take advantage of lower labor costs in other countries which was made worse by too little give from the unions and unchecked by the crappy state and local government who didn't provide additional incentives for them to stay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
:laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
Good reply. I realize how moronic my post was and indeed it must have been the blacks fault as others have claimed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir
Np.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
Wait so black leadership kills cities?
SOMEONE TELL ATLANTA
O wait
I hear good things about the Delta City project, maybe OCP can turn Detroit's fortunes around.
I just love it when Dave plays with his food. It makes me horny.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
I heard you can both enlist in the American Army together now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir
I fixed it for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
And these racist blacks managed to ruin an entire city all by themselves? It couldn't have been outsourcing at all? It couldn't have been corrupt unions? It couldn't have been the fact that everyone ****** up in someway, nooooooooooooooooooo it was the white hating blacks? Give me a break guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
You aren't getting a break here. Can you explain exactly how outsourcing and corrupt unions effected the city? I'm not talking about the state of Michigan or the auto companies, I'm talking about the city of Detroit. Please, enlighten us.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
"Give me a break" is just a term, not an actual request. I thought that was common knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
And lol, your question inherently makes no sense. The downward economic spiral preceded the downfall of Detroit and Michigan as a whole. The point it fell is because the economic strength of the region was weakened by outsourcing partly due to stubborn unions. This made less jobs available in the region, which created higher unemployment, which slowed the overall economy of the state. The fact that some black politicians made racist statements and policies to whites is only a small part of the problem. The whites simply fled like in other places around the country, to suburbs and segregated themselves from the blacks, but they still went about and did their jobs, got paid and bought stuff. While it has it's bias, watch "Roger & Me" in which he goes over how (in his opinion) GM is responsible for the downfall of Flint. The economic devestation of one region hurts the economic stability of the regions surrounding it because of the inter connectivity of the modern economy.
This the problem with what you are telling me. You are saying, "I am talking about Detroit, here. Detroit's blacks pushed the wealthy whites out and the city died. Tell me how that is wrong." That statement alone isn't wrong, but let's look at the bigger picture. Where are all the wealthy whites in the LA region? They all fled to either Beverly Hills, Bel Air, Holmby Hills and the region around them or they moved out into the massive suburbs that stretch into it's neighboring counties. And even though LA has it's budget problems, it's no Detroit, so what is going on? The fact is that the surrounding suburbs where all the white people are at still drive the economic machine of LA. Unless all the whites were leaving Michigan completely, I don't see how racist blacks completely managed to destroy an entire megacity all by themselves.
EDIT: There is a reason why Michigan was the only state to have shown a population loss in the new census, and it's not because of racist blacks! Racist blacks don't just live in Detroit I can tell you that! It's because of the bad economy and no job prospects.
I'm aware of the meaning :).Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
No it didn't. Through most of the 90s and early 2000s the state of Michigan was doing very well. The same cannot be said about the city of Detroit.Quote:
And lol, your question inherently makes no sense. The downward economic spiral preceded the downfall of Detroit and Michigan as a whole.
No.Quote:
The point it fell is because the economic strength of the region was weakened by outsourcing partly due to stubborn unions. This made less jobs available in the region, which created higher unemployment, which slowed the overall economy of the state.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__V1GJlBady...Rate+Chart.jpg
I don't understand. You admit to what I was basically saying and say it's only a small part of the problem? Detroit had a population of around 2 million at it's peak. That population shrunk as business and people fled not to the rest of the country, but to the suburbs of Michigan. This doesn't sound very small to me.Quote:
The fact that some black politicians made racist statements and policies to whites is only a small part of the problem. The whites simply fled like in other places around the country, to suburbs and segregated themselves from the blacks, but they still went about and did their jobs, got paid and bought stuff.
I've seen the movie. That sounds like a good talking point. Do you have any evidence that when GM moved out of Flint Detroit was negatively effected as a direct result?Quote:
While it has it's bias, watch "Roger & Me" in which he goes over how (in his opinion) GM is responsible for the downfall of Flint. The economic devestation of one region hurts the economic stability of the regions surrounding it because of the inter connectivity of the modern economy.
Glad we are in agreement.Quote:
This the problem with what you are telling me. You are saying, "I am talking about Detroit, here. Detroit's blacks pushed the wealthy whites out and the city died. Tell me how that is wrong." That statement alone isn't wrong,
I'm not sure what exactly you are trying to say here. What's so hard to understand about a wealth and business flight? The suburbs boomed while the city fell apart.Quote:
but let's look at the bigger picture. Where are all the wealthy whites in the LA region? They all fled to either Beverly Hills, Bel Air, Holmby Hills and the region around them or they moved out into the massive suburbs that stretch into it's neighboring counties. And even though LA has it's budget problems, it's no Detroit, so what is going on? The fact is that the surrounding suburbs where all the white people are at still drive the economic machine of LA. Unless all the whites were leaving Michigan completely, I don't see how racist blacks completely managed to destroy an entire megacity all by themselves.
It's because of the current auto mess. I'm not denying is why the state of Michigan lost population... but this isn't what the discussion is about. This population loss was not from the city, but from suburbs. The decline of Detroit happened long before 2000.Quote:
EDIT: There is a reason why Michigan was the only state to have shown a population loss in the new census, and it's not because of racist blacks! Racist blacks don't just live in Detroit I can tell you that! It's because of the bad economy and no job prospects.
Like I've said before, you seem to confusing to what is happening to the state of Michigan, to what is happening to Detroit. Not much goes on in the downtown anymore... not much has gone on there for decades.
Lol. You people brought it on yourselves. It makes me giddy to witness all of you reaping exactly what you have sown. :laugh4:
...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah
It's just normalizing after a ridiculously gigantic industrial boom.
This is happening, and has happened, throughout history as economic models change. Stop trying to make it a racial or political issue, it is simply reality setting in after the party.
Laissez les bons temps rouler.