Study: Having Kids Makes You Delusional?

This article seems to affirm an interesting phenomenon I've noticed with people who have had kids. They all talk about how wonderful it is to be parents, yet they seem abjectly miserable in their day to day lives. Their kids cause them huge amounts of stress, and seem to be highly draining in terms of time, energy, and money, but they wouldn't give it up for anything in the world.

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All parents know that having kids is a blessing — except when it's a nightmare of screaming fits, diapers, runny noses, wars over bedtimes and homework and clothes. To say nothing of bills too numerous to list. Some economists have argued that having kids is an economically silly investment; after all, it's cheaper to hire end-of-life care than to raise a child. Now comes new research showing that having kids is not only financially foolish but that kids literally make parents delusional.

Researchers have known for some time that parents with minors who live at home report feeling calm significantly less often than than people who don't live with young children. Parents are also angrier and more depressed than nonparents — and each additional child makes them even angrier. Couples who choose not to have kids also have better, more satisfying marriages than couples who have kids. (More on Time.com: 5 Pregnancy Taboos Explained (or Debunked))

To be sure, all such evidence will never outweigh the desire to procreate, which is one of the most powerfully encoded urges built into our DNA. But a new paper shows that parents fool themselves into believing that having kids is more rewarding than it actually is. It turns out parents are in the grip of a giant illusion.

The paper, which appears in the journal Psychological Science, presents the results of two studies conducted by Richard Eibach and Steven Mock, psychologists at the University of Waterloo in Ontario. The studies tested the hypothesis that “idealizing the emotional rewards of parenting helps parents to rationalize the financial costs of raising children.”

Their hypothesis comes out of cognitive-dissonance theory, which suggests that people are highly motivated to justify, deny or rationalize to reduce the cognitive discomfort of holding conflicting ideas.

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It does make sense. When we as humans invest heavily in a decision, we tend to defend it regardless of the outcome.

Meh

I feel like trying to objectivley asses children through economics and other empirical measures misses the point. No one on there death bed wishes they had been more selfish with there time

This is so very German of you, Why cant you assimalate?

What was I supposed to do? Leave my pregnant girlfriend like some lame-:daisy: jerk? Let the only flesh and blood I really have grow up in the same (near) parent-less world I grew up in? Not gonna happen. As a side-effect I really, really do and will always love my daughters. Come hell or high-water. I can't imagine life without them, I would be a broken man.

Bill Hicks had a few takes on this. Unfortunately, none are linkable without repercussions. :smash:

I fully accept that I am slave to my genes. I exist merely as a vessel to prolong their lives, and if I fail to procreate, my life will have been meaningless. Economic success and personal happiness are just gonna have to take a backseat to my prime directive.

Ajax

Invoking Beirut - Just scientist babble that has no real world meaning or application.

My children are the most important thing in the world. Their wellbeing and happiness is paramount and I will make any sacrifice for them.

Nothing compares to how you feel when your baby smiles at you.

~:smoking:

Meanwhile, another study shows that living subjects humans to pain and discomfort.

I´d say you'd have to be delusional to want to have kids in the first place.

I agree with the study. I have noticed it before. For example, I knew this guy who was clear-headed, moderate, and intelligent. Then he had a baby and now Andres hates the EU. Must be those delusions kicking in.



On a less serious note, studies like that show the limits of being too rationalising about life. Quality of life is not measured by objective measurements, but by the poetry of it. I don't have kids, but I do fall in love easily and always love passionately. By any objective standard I am miserable when in love. I lose sleep, don't eat well, have quit a thriving business. I have travelled halfway round the world for a single kiss.

But that is the whole point! The whole point of life. Life must be grand, lyrical, poetic. Objective measures are for engineers, that a bridge won't collapse. But we humans, we rule ourselves by the smile of your child, the arms of your beloved, to any price, at any cost. This is life.

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Originally Posted by article

it's cheaper to hire end-of-life care than to raise a child

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And who is going to do this end-of-life care when there are no young people anymore?
Who is going to produce all the food for those lazy, fat, rich elderly people when there are no young people anymore?
Robots? Who is going to build and maintain those? Retired people?

Typical short-term economic thinking...

Heh, the real problems start when they reach the teenage years. Solution: ship them off to boot camp.:whip:

Well, its interesting. I have to kids myself and everyone who has kids and love them, also have times who he/she love to have the kids by their grandma!

There are a few things to consider:
Lets assume that money isnt a problem and you want kids and love your kids.

With an age of 35 i reached nearly anything i did want in my life. To have kids is one thing, call it an experience, i did want at some point in my life.
Its a challenge with many good and some bad days, days of stress, nights of stress, weeks of very little sleep... but if i see my son dancing to some music or a real honest laughing of one of my kids.... hell, nothing can beat this feeling. It pays off hundred or thousand times.

I dont want my kids to take care of me, once Im old. I cant take care of myself and my wife, my kids should have their own life.

If kids make delusional? No way at all. There are things i wont do with my kids, but many new things i started to do again since my kids are around.
You go out a lot more, you visit the Zoo, make tours with bicycle, plan different vacations, read different books.
And dont forget the fun to educate your kids, i love teaching, exploring, explaining, its very interesting what questions kids can have.

My daughter is 5 years now, she did ask me one or two weeks ago, how much blood people have and how it works, whats is it for, where is comes from.
Wow, this brings you in a nice situation. I took some bottles of water and showed her, how much "water = blood" is in my body and also, how much is in hers.
She asked me whats a "liter"? ... you see, if your a person who love to interact with kids, than this is some awesome way to spice up your life.

On the other hand, i still leave my family home and drive to Austria for some Skiing or in Summer some days for relaxing.
There is a lot possible.

In the end, you lose a bit, but you gain so much more! I cant imagine being without my kids, they are the best happened in my life.

If you dont want kids when you allready have them you have no heart, if you want kids when you dont have them you have no brain.

Men might have a problem with the second part of that.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by Husar

Typical short-term economic thinking...

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It is not just economics...

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Researchers have known for some time that parents with minors who live at home report feeling calm significantly less often than than people who don't live with young children. Parents are also angrier and more depressed than nonparents — and each additional child makes them even angrier. Couples who choose not to have kids also have better, more satisfying marriages than couples who have kids.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Why would anyone intentionally inflict that on themselves? I think most aren't aware of it.

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:laugh4:

I think the study is right that indeed, parents get angry or even depressed more often than non parents. Should that come as a surprise? More people under one roof in its' own will lead to more tension. And kids are kids, they need to learn everything. I'm the impatient type and every single day, I'm having a very hard time not to lose my patience and I hardly succeed in it. Of course that leads to tensions. Of course, the extra bills lead to worry. Of course, you're child will get sick a lot (remember your own childhood), there will be lots of unexpected stuff, teaching him the meaning of the word "no" will take longer than 3 lifetimes and whatnot.

The study is entirely correct on that aspect.

What they've got wrong is the idea that this can be measured and put into statistics, numbers, charts etc.

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Originally Posted by article

But a new paper shows that parents fool themselves into believing that having kids is more rewarding than it actually is. It turns out parents are in the grip of a giant illusion.

(...) The studies tested the hypothesis that “idealizing the emotional rewards of parenting helps parents to rationalize the financial costs of raising children.”

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=

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A lot of people will disagree with our results, but they are wrong! They are unhappy but don't want to admit it!

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I'm not going to "rationalize" the choice of getting children, because ratio had nothing to do with it.

Seeing my son smile to me or seeing how he's doing something new and how he enjoys it, seeing how he discovers, it's well worth it, really. In between all the chores, there are these moments of pure joy that will be treasured for as long as I'm here.

And if those psychologists of yours' want to call me delusional because of it, then so be it. I always knew I'm a bit crazy, now at least it's official.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Why would anyone intentionally inflict that on themselves? I think most aren't aware of it, and then retroactively justify it.

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Well, why would anyone intentionally inflict work in a coal mine on themselves? Because they have a drive to make money.
And humans have a drive to have sex and make children. Even gays are struggling to be allowed to adopt children, they're even fighting in courts for this "depression"!
I think either the study or the science behind it is flawed in some way. I've played games before that were a bit of a grind but I still got a lot of enjoyment out of them, it's not always just one emotion or the other.

When even rory stops being stoic and analytical over a topic you know there really has to be something about it that the study couldn't grasp. ~;)

Or to take it to a topic that you should be very familiar with, how much work goes into maintaining a tank just so it can function as intended in the few minutes or hours of battle it sees in the end?
Similarly a lot of maintenance etc. goes into a child just so it will smile at you and prosper. And while a tank may be wrecked after 20(or 30) years, that's when a child really starts to take off all by itself and you know you enabled it to do that.

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Originally Posted by Andres

Seeing my son smile to me or seeing how he's doing something new and how he enjoys it, seeing how he discovers, it's well worth it, really. In between all the chores, there are these moments of pure joy that will be treasured for as long as I'm here.

And if those psychologists of yours' want to call me delusional because of it, then so be it. I always knew I'm a bit crazy, now at least it's official.

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Blasting The Marriage of Figaro over the prison loudspeakers probably seems like heaven, even when the result is a week in the hole and you have life without parole. Are the simple joys of parenthood truly joys, or is it all just relative when measured against the overall misery of child-rearing?

There is no point in life without children.

~:smoking:

I'm having a mini early mid-life crisis over such issues these days. People I know at my age are getting married and having kids. They might not have much of a future in terms of employment etc. And I might be getting a degree from a top Uni. And everyone might say I have the right priorities, but it doesn't feel like it. I even know how stupid it is for me to think like this and probably sounds ridiculous when I'm only 21, but it still makes me feel bad.

As for the study, I can believe it. But at the end of the day what is it aiming to prove etc? It seems like a bit of an artificial divide to say the desire to have kids is biological, while other desires are rational. At the end of the day, all desires are biological. At the end of the day if it makes you happy it makes you happy and it doesn't matter whether or not you can rationalise why it makes you happy, because being happy is the end, not the means.

Also, just a thought, but I think there could be other factors that influence the studies findings. For example, low income families have more children - their stress and anger etc could just as likely be caused by their economic situation as opposed to the kids themsleves. It doesn't seem to mention if these were taken into account.

Ask that girl out and make beautifual pale ginger scottish babies

Beautifual, pale,ginger,alcoholic,violent,ranger fan, blood made of batter, and teeth that make an Englishman recoil Scottish babies

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

Ask that girl out and make beautifual pale ginger scottish babies

Beautifual, pale,ginger,alcoholic,violent,ranger fan, blood made of batter, and teeth that make an Englishman recoil Scottish babies

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:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

I take offence at this, I am absolutely not an alcoholic!

Oh, and your spelling mistakes are a bit too consistent, with the "beautifual" thing. :wink:

Anyway, other posters can feel free to ignore the first paragraph of ranting in my above post. **** after re-reading that I can see I'm acting like its my time of the month. Damn biology, I wish I could be a heartless German like PJ. :embarassed:

Meh I'm just ribbing you. I find little idosynchratic things that people attribute to nationality fasicnating, I then blow them out of proportion

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

I'm having a mini early mid-life crisis over such issues these days. People I know at my age are getting married and having kids. They might not have much of a future in terms of employment etc. And I might be getting a degree from a top Uni. And everyone might say I have the right priorities, but it doesn't feel like it. I even know how stupid it is for me to think like this and probably sounds ridiculous when I'm only 21, but it still makes me feel bad.

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I FEEL YOUR PAIN, MAN. Seriously, though. I do.

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

There is no point in life without children.

~:smoking:

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That makes absolutely no sense to me. There is so much to life besides children. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

That makes absolutely no sense to me. There is so much to life besides children. :shrug:

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Call it a belief. It is what I believe and there is no argument that can alter this.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Call it a belief. It is what I believe and there is no argument that can alter this.

~:smoking:

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That sounds suspiciously like a religious belief there. :laugh4:

It is definitely a belief (after all the definition is a position that is held that can not be altered by logical argument), but I don't personally tie it to any particular religious teachings. I accept that it is irrational but I don't feel the need to back it up with anything. I think the mindset makes me the caring, loving believer in humanity that I am... ~;)

~:smoking:

If happiness is the goal, then it's irrational to let rationality get in the way of your happiness.

Unless killing people is the only way to be happy.