Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

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03-23-2011, 14:23
LeftEyeNine

Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

What ?

Quote:

The parents of 11-year-old Colton Burpo, the boy who inspired the book “Heaven Is for Real,” explain how they know that their son experienced heaven after a near-death experience.

Okay, being a Muslim myself, I'm neither trying to be an :daisy: to believers nor would advocate anything to non-believers but, uh, why should I buy into to a so-called experience which has a bestseller merchandise going on ?
03-23-2011, 14:44
rory_20_uk

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

I'm pretty sure I came close to Haeven in Medical school. Damn, she was good. Between sewating and seratonin / dopamine endorphine release it might not have been spiritual.

~:smoking:
03-23-2011, 15:00
HoreTore

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

It's nonsense.

Just delusions caused by his brain.
03-23-2011, 15:07
Shibumi

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

Cute.

I am sure there are gullible people enough to earn quite some cash from that.
03-23-2011, 15:18
Rhyfelwyr

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

What a ridiculous claim to make, I cannot believe anyone would even think of buying his book. Anyone can see from a plain reading of the scripture that nobody ascends to Heaven until after Christ returns to establish his millenial kingdom.
03-23-2011, 16:11
Fragony

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

Hey he wouldn't be the first who went insane and recieved a message from heaven, and people still buy it even today

And what Horetore said
03-23-2011, 16:12
HoreTore

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragony

Hey he wouldn't be the first who went insane and recieved a message from heaven, and people still buy it even today

And what Horetore said

Considering how often we agree, Frags, perhaps we should form a political party?
03-23-2011, 16:26
Fragony

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoreTore

Considering how often we agree, Frags, perhaps we should form a political party?

The MEA, moderate extremists alliance ~;)
03-23-2011, 20:07
HoreTore

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragony

The MEA, moderate extremists alliance ~;)

Sweet!

I say we do it, and run for the european parliament! Then we can waste Louis' tax dollars all day long on hookers and blow!
03-23-2011, 21:53
Scienter

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

I think I'm too cynical. But, the first thing that popped into my head is that the parents made it all up and coached their son to say those things.
03-23-2011, 22:08
HoreTore

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

It is quite fascinating though.

Seeing people who claim to spread the ultimate truth lie through their teeth.

Because that's what this is, a simple lie. A lie told with the intent of changing other peples beliefs. There's a lot of this going on in christian circles, and this is juet one case among many. I've had a flier in my mail by a guy claiming stigmata, another outragous lie. Then there's that story of how a group of scientists supposedly "measured the spirit leaving a dying man", with an electrical surge at the moment of death and the body's weight being reduced by some grams. Plain old horse manure. Dead people resurrected in Africa, diseases cured at halleluja conventions. They deserve nothing more than ridicule.

The amount of people who buy into these lies, however... 1,5 million copies sold? That's sad.
03-23-2011, 23:57
Hosakawa Tito

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

Maybe Professor Persinger and his work with the God Helmet is on to something. I watched the below clip the other night, very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN3ggRgY7Ac
03-24-2011, 00:18
Ronin

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

there's a sucker born every ~~minute~~ second (figures have been adjusted for inflation) and they buy books!
especially if they can get it recommended by Oprah or some crap like that....Ca-Ching!
03-24-2011, 07:32
Louis VI the Fat

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

Lies, lies...I don't think it is lies, or a conscious effort by the parents. People really do believe that stuff, they get carried away, eventually others realise there is a lot of money to made from it.

Reminds me a bit of Bernadette of Lourdes, still a multibillion business afer more than a century. But they do believe it, nearly all of them involved really do believe it. Until eventually you get to the point where you wonder if maybe it not just simply fulfills sincere human needs. In this boys' case, for the mother to deal with the loss of her unborn child, and everything else. At Lourdes, it gioves some meaning and hope to the sick and crippled. What else do you tell these people, what else must they believe? I'd believe it too if I were them.

Even those people on television who talk with deceased relatoves of members of the audience...yes, it is all fake. But is it a lie? They don't even have to lie. The audience will want to believe them, will believe them. The ritual is not about deceit, but about fulfilling a spiritual need, however crudely done.

The line between outright charlatans and true believers is thin indeed. As is the line between people of simple faith (or simple people of faith?), and direct spiritual revelation.
03-24-2011, 08:00
Samurai Waki

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

... it's called getting laid. :smoking:
03-24-2011, 08:34
miotas

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

If you already believe God exists, then why don't you believe that Jesus would comfort a sick child?
03-24-2011, 08:58
Banquo's Ghost

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

Quote:

Originally Posted by miotas

If you already believe God exists, then why don't you believe that Jesus would comfort a sick child?

Of course one could believe that. The sticky question then follows: why that child and not the millions who truly suffer?

This is when religion ties itself up in knots with invariably repulsive attempts at justifying the decisions of an interventionist God. I prefer to agree with Ivan Karamazov (paraphrased): "I cannot believe in a God who would permit the suffering of a single child".
03-24-2011, 09:10
HoreTore

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

Concious or not, this is an outright lie nonetheless. Do they believe it themselves? I don't think so personally, I believe they are fully aware of their scam now, although it might have started out differently.

But still, it is a lie. And it's not just the parents who are lying. There are all sorts of people involved in the lie; regular people who spread the story, the publisher, etc etc. The parents might believe it, but the other people knows its a lie. They spread the story anyway, because it might turn people to christ. And who cares if you lie to achieve your goals, right? Sickening.

And the funny thing is, these exact same people are the ones who cry over a passage in the Quran that apparently permits lying to unbelievers. The hypocrisy just reached the Himalayas....
03-24-2011, 11:25
Beirut

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine

What ?

Okay, being a Muslim myself, I'm neither trying to be an :daisy: to believers nor would advocate anything to non-believers but, uh, why should I buy into to a so-called experience which has a bestseller merchandise going on ?

Do they sell clothing, too?

"Colton went to Heaven and all I got was this lousy t-shirt."
03-24-2011, 13:50
miotas

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Of course one could believe that. The sticky question then follows: why that child and not the millions who truly suffer?

My question was aimed at those who believe the stuff in the bible, yet baulk at something like this. I mean come on! Has any christian denying this even read the kind of stuff in the bible? This kid's story is nothing.
03-24-2011, 14:43
Strike For The South

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

This Jesus fellow needs to be found
03-25-2011, 10:19
Cute Wolf

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

maybe it's just a delusional things, maybe it was real, maybe it was extreme streak of lucky guess, and maybe it was just a faked experience, we as observers would never know the truth

but everybody in heaven have wings immediately reveal that was merely a dream, that was western-cultural things of angels... sweet dreams for a child who suffers so much.
03-26-2011, 07:18
Askthepizzaguy

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

I've been inside a black hole. Buy my book, and I'll tell you what it's like in there.
03-27-2011, 14:18
Cute Wolf

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

Quote:

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I've been inside a black hole. Buy my book, and I'll tell you what it's like in there.

at least, I bet Black hole is much more nicer than the poorest section of one of the most poor and overdense city in the world. I've lost my way for 3 days in the slum area of Jakarta without any money or communication device, should I start to write a book?
03-27-2011, 14:36
Hax

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

Quote:

... it's called getting laid. :smoking:

Nice. What's the term again? I believe it's

"/thread".
03-27-2011, 22:13
Ice

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

nm...
03-29-2011, 04:29
Jolt

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

This Jesus fellow needs to be found

He's managing Benfica.
03-31-2011, 10:55
Sarmatian

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolt

He's managing Benfica.

If he sells Coentrao, he's an impostor.
04-03-2011, 02:30
Moros

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

What insane parents give their child salvia divinorum?
04-03-2011, 12:50
Subotan

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

This has had absolutely no impact on my non-belief in God. Judging from what this kid has said of it, Heaven sounds boring and lame. Now, if he'd seen Hell on the hand...
04-10-2011, 10:38
naut

Re: Boy Claims To Have Been To Heaven

Near-death =/= to death.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.W.Holmes

What do we really know about death? From the perspective of the living, it is impossible to know what it is to be deceased. So-called “near death experiences” are just that: near to death, not gone and returned. The similar hallucinations, such as a bright light, reported during severe trauma have been adequately explained by several studies as having a physiological cause, and have nothing to do with the end of life. Actual death is irreversible and other terms, such as “technically dead”, only refer to reversible states, which have little in common with the absolute form.

What I find interesting is that his "experience" boils down to all the old clichés, huge wings, dead relatives, blah, blah, blah

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.W.Holmes

Human illusions of an afterlife are a reflection of what we know, and what we are; and are confined by the limits of our imagination. To appeal to the broadest base possible, most religions find it necessary to target those who cannot comprehend concepts far removed from everyday life. This results in forms of rebirth that are tainted by anthropomorphism, and restricted by cultural values.

----

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

The sticky question then follows: why that child and not the millions who truly suffer?.

Depends on your idea/perspective of god though. What about a vindictive god? A hateful and incoherent god? A Shestovian god? Or one who takes pleasure in suffering? Or from another perspective why must a god be interested in us anyway? (Two "rational solutions" poke their head up here - envy for our morality or simply there is no interest in us). Ultimately this all boils down to speculation and opinion, there is no way of "knowing".

The sense that every struggle brings defeat
Because Fate holds no prize to crown success;
That all the oracles are dumb or cheat
Because they have no secret to express;
That none can pierce the vast black veil uncertain
Because there is no light beyond the curtain;
That all is vanity and nothingness.

----

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Reminds me a bit of Bernadette of Lourdes, still a multibillion business afer more than a century. But they do believe it, nearly all of them involved really do believe it. Until eventually you get to the point where you wonder if maybe it not just simply fulfills sincere human needs. In this boys' case, for the mother to deal with the loss of her unborn child, and everything else. At Lourdes, it gioves some meaning and hope to the sick and crippled. What else do you tell these people, what else must they believe? I'd believe it too if I were them.

Even those people on television who talk with deceased relatoves of members of the audience...yes, it is all fake. But is it a lie? They don't even have to lie. The audience will want to believe them, will believe them. The ritual is not about deceit, but about fulfilling a spiritual need, however crudely done.

Are we all not simply Bokonists then? Living by the harmless untruths that make us able to cope with this existence? The harmless untruths that make us brave and kind and healthy and happy?

P.S.: Billy Connelly has a great bit about Lourdes, his Nan used to get him to drink holy water from Lourdes for tooth-ache. When he was older he went and got holy water from Lourdes for her and noticed that this water he used to have to drink was used for all sorts of diseases, so he'd been drinking water tainted with all sorts of STDs, pus and blood. :laugh4: