Westeros: A Game of Thrones.

https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/...rones-logo.jpg

Robert Baratheon is dead. His son Joffrey is too young to rule, his Hand, Ned Stark, is Baratheon's choice of regent, a choice sure to offend his widow and her family. George RR Martin has told his story of the aftermath, perhaps a different story could be told?

Westeros: A Game of Thrones is a game similar to my previous Crusader Kings. There will be some differences (not least the fact I will upload a back up of the game files to FileFront or somewhere similar to prevent a similar finish), mainly the setting but also the fact that players will not take the role of a single character, but a House within the gameworld. Each House will have a number of characters with differing skills and personal goals. Each house can have more than one player, but there will be no "leader" so they will have to come to an agreement on orders.

Example:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/...220px-Mord.jpg
That dirty Lannister owes me gold!

This is very much a work in progress and it could be a while before it's ready. There a number of question I haven't quite decided on, like how to show House Baratheon, Joffrey, Stannis and Renly could hardly be part of one faction!

The gameplay would be very like Crusader Kings, experimentation and creative thinking very much encouraged.

Ideas on how gameplay could be improved upon from Crusader Kings, or just general feedback on the idea are welcome.

I am going to guess you played the Westeros mod for CK?

I managed to become the King of the five Kingdoms...The Riverlands, Stormlands, Dorne, The Vale, and The Iron throne. I couldn't get the Kingdom of the west because it always is ruled by a competent Lannister for some reason...and the North was just too far away from me and I just decided to give the Starks a break(also because I just marry my rulers daughters off to there family).:shrug:

Only time I almost lost was when I was fighting The Riverlands and The Vale declared war to try and double-team me. I was a little surprised that the King in the North never declared war once, even to help the stormlands out. I even made an alliance with the Lannisters and I didn't even really need it.:2thumbsup:

Why not just use the map in CK? or is it to bad looking?

I haven't gotten around to playing the CK mod yet, I'd heard it was pretty buggy. I found quite a few maps online, the one I posted seemed the clearest with all the important landmarks.

I've been thinking about factions, these seem to be the best set up.

Lannisters
Starks
Greyjoys
Dragonstone (Stannis)
Martell
Storms End (Renly)
Highgarden

Non player factions

King Joffrey
Small council
Arryns
Night's Watch

Other houses will have minor roles as part of the playable factions, such as the Boltons, Frey, Cleganes etc. They may not like how they are used however and can change sides.

Yeah, it's buggy...but I fiddle around with it myself, as long as CTDs remain at a minimum. What I hate about it is that, you can have wars for a VERY LONG time...it took me 4 years to successfully siege Kings landing and Storms end. I had to fight off endless forces from the Baratheons...by the time I was done, I gladly reenacted the "Red wedding" on them.(the hair that broke the camels back):grin2:

It also gives you "Realm duress" for the rest of your rulers life if you even have it once....I had to rewrite an event to cancel it if your not at war. Seemed pretty stable so far...but I find all paradox games buggy.:shrug:

I am not sure how everything would work without a map though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by White_eyes:D

I am not sure how everything would work without a map though.

---

It's just a forum based game, based on a forum based game based on Crusader Kings. Pretty simple really. :wink:

---

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

Would Storms End really work as it is effectively the High Garden faction?

---

I was going to put Renly in with Highgarden, then changed my mind. I'm still in two minds about it as I'd like players to have as many options as possible at the start.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

Removing Storms End as a faction and replacing it with Dorne might be an idea, in an attempt to keep the factions more inline with the main kingdoms.

---

Martell = Dorne.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

What about major landmarks such as King's Landing (the council/etc) and Harrenhal ?

---

Those locations are on the map and the small council (Varys, Littlefinger and Pycelle) are a non player faction advising the non player King.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

Though do you want a Jaime player, or Littlefinger player or Varys ? It all depends on how complicated you want it and how many would be interested.

---

Players won't be, say Jaime or Tyrion in particular, each player (or team) will give orders for their House, which will include orders for individuals, armies etc. Characters will have traits, so if you try to order Jaime to hold a certain place on the map, don't be surprised if he says "bugger that!" and goes off and attacks somewhere else. Or if you order Tyrion to go to a certain city and perform an action he may get distracted by the brothels...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

Use the various Kingdom's as references. In a way, probably think of it like Mount and Blade. You need to have a ruler with sufficient claimant to the throne or a throne, so Robb Stark has claims for King of the North. Joffery for King of the Seven (along with Stannis), Theon for pure example for King of the Iron Isles.

Then you have the various 'dukedoms'/powerful houses who may not claim a Kingship but they can rally to the cause for one of the various lords in exchange for certain things, or none at all and attempt to stay neutral.

---

Yes, I would hope the early game would be a diplomatic scramble for support. Though there are certain factors players would know of that shouldn't really be common knowledge, mainly Joffrey's parentage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

I think the Free Cities should be NPC controlled though.

---

I think it would be best to limit the game to Westeros to keep it simple.

(I realised the Dorne comment and came to correct it and a couple of other comments but you beat me to it!)

Also, on the third book now.

I LOVE YOU

I liked Crusader Kings so I guess I'll play, I don't know anything about Game of Thrones though, which could be a problem

Any ideas on how Crusader Kings could have been improved on for this guys?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheLastDays

I liked Crusader Kings so I guess I'll play, I don't know anything about Game of Thrones though, which could be a problem

---

So long as we get enough people you should be in a team and others could fill you in on the background. You should at least watch the first episode of the tv series, not even for the game it'll help fill that empty part of your life you didn't know existed until then. :smile:

This sounds very interesting.

YESGASM

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnhughthom

Any ideas on how Crusader Kings could have been improved on for this guys?

---

Well I thought that the position of the Bishop was a bit loosely defined. IMO characters like that would have to have pretty strict parameters to operate in and clearly set goals so they can't jut go ahead and ally themselves to one of the forces and forget about the others. They have to be forced to try to "keep the balance". But as it looks you're planning to make characters like that unplayable anyway...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheLastDays

I liked Crusader Kings so I guess I'll play, I don't know anything about Game of Thrones though, which could be a problem

---

I'm going to be frank and suggest that you either read the books (at least the first one) or seriously consider not playing. Even if this is an alternate storyline, some things are sure to surface that might ruin your experience of the book(s).

I'm reading Dance currently, the fifth and last to be published so far (Winds of Winter is to come later, I believe).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheLastDays

Well I thought that the position of the Bishop was a bit loosely defined. IMO characters like that would have to have pretty strict parameters to operate in and clearly set goals so they can't jut go ahead and ally themselves to one of the forces and forget about the others. They have to be forced to try to "keep the balance". But as it looks you're planning to make characters like that unplayable anyway...

---

Yes, I learned that characters I wanted to keep a certain balance in the game would be best as NPCs.

I was looking at this as a list of skills to determine outcome of actions:

Leadership
Honour
Bravery
Intrigue
Dread

The Westeros CK mod has a nice map and some very fitting traits, though the scenario start dates does not have the period you are wanting.

There are also the different religions (3) and the different cultures (4) which might need to be taken in consideration too.

Shame you haven't put the Dragon as a playable faction, that is one I would be likely to consider choosing if I had a choice!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

The Westeros CK mod has a nice map and some very fitting traits, though the scenario start dates does not have the period you are wanting.

---

I think I'll give it a whirl, see if it gives me some inspiration.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

There are also the different religions (3) and the different cultures (4) which might need to be taken in consideration too.

---

Ahh, good point, shouldn't it be 4 religions though, or does the mod lump Melisandre's God in with The Seven?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

Shame you haven't put the Dragon as a playable faction, that is one I would be likely to consider choosing if I had a choice!

---

There wouldn't really be much interaction with the other houses at the early stage of the game, I haven't ruled out trying to fit them in, every idea I've had for them has added a lot of work host wise.

I had the impression that the three Faiths were The Red Priests, The Seven, and the Old Gods. Which fourth were you thinking of?

The Drowned God from the Iron Isles. Or is he part of the old gods?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnhughthom

The Drowned God from the Iron Isles. Or is he part of the old gods?

---

Right, that makes it four. But they're barbarians.

Yes, the Drowned God, I forgot to mention them in the number.

The others obviously being R'hllor, The Seven and the Old Gods.

As for cultures, there are the Wildings/Free men, Andal, First Man, Valyrian, Ironborn, Crannogman, Dornish, Lysene, Dothraki, Myrman, Tyroshi, Braavosi, Pentoshi, Westerman, Westrosi and Clansman.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=470051
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=721

Oh, an M2TW mod. Didn't even know that existed, thanks for the link, think I'll give that a whirl.

This looks very interesting and I hope it turns out as great as it sounds. :) I'll keep my eye on this and hopefully be able to join once its gets ready. In regards to Crusader Kings I did not take part in that and so can't say anything, although I think it would be cool if the players actually played specific characters from the books which could make it easier with personal goals for the players. Considering how many characters there are the game should be able to support almost infinate numer of players. Heck, just the Lannisters have like nine characters that could work for players, and that's not counting their lords bannermen. Still I understand your choice and I do not doubt it will turn out great. Best of luck and all success in the world!

Thanks Gurkhal, I'll drop you a pm when the game is nearly ready to go. As for playing specific character, I don't want inactivity to spoil the game, and having certain people go AWOL or drop out would have a serious impact on the game. If they had team mates their disappearance would be easier to manage. I see your point though, it would be more immersive to be a single character, I haven't decided 100% on any aspect of the game at the minute, so it could change in the future, with enough people participating. If I'm honest though, I don't see the game getting enough players to make the change.

Thanks, I appreciate that. I'll look forward to get to action in Westeros. :)

Why has this not filled up 3 times over?

What sort of in-game timescale per turn do you guys think would work. I'm thinking of each turn being a week, Monday - Friday for discussion and sending orders and Saturday and Sunday for write ups and results. The write ups would be a narrative, obviously I wouldn't be able to post everything in thread but there would be a public general write up of what happened each round, while the private results would be a narrative from the perspective of one of the House members, changing each phase. As for in game time frame each turn I'm unsure, a week, a month?

Real time!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Double A

Real time!

---

1 Week = 1 Week. This will be awesome.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Double A

Why has this not filled up 3 times over?

---

I might join if I knew more about what exactly this game is. Like an NES?

1 week turns are very, very appealing, though.

that would work.

i would say a moth in game for a week in rl.

I will play wherever possible if spots are still open. I'm sorry about my inactivity with CK I had a lot going on at the time.

I'm not sure what NES games are Zack, they're at CFC right? I had a look but couldn't find them, have a quick skim through the Crusader Kings game linked in the op, this will be very similar.

Never Ending Stories.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Diamondeye

Never Ending Stories.

---

Looks like it will be very similar.

Hesitant in.

1 turn =one month in game sounds like a very good setting. A week in real time for diplomacy and orders sounds good.

I've only read game of thrones and never played crusader kings, is that alright?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kagemusha

1 turn =one month in game sounds like a very good setting. A week in real time for diplomacy and orders sounds good.

---

I'll probably do a poll a few weeks before the game starts and let the players choose. I'm still in the very early stages of design, and I'd like to read the series again to make sure I don't make too many silly mistakes. It's still a few months away at least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slashandburn

I've only read game of thrones and never played crusader kings, is that alright?

---

I wouldn't care if you had never read any of the books and hadn't heard of Crusader Kings, you're my old FBI partner so you're welcome in any game I host. :yes:

I had fun in jht's last CK game, and I hadn't even heard of it before that.

cool, i'd like to join when this starts up and i'd prefer to be the Starks

I'm in when it starts

Just a quick update to let those interested know this is still alive, I've been working on it slowly, but surely. It'll probably start a week or so after the end of Capo (assuming my R&RHoF game is done by then). I'm halfway through Clash of Kings in my pre-game series re-read, and picked up a few details I'd forgotten about.

You should say them in public to remind me of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Double A

You should say them in public to remind me of them.

---

Read it yourself!

I already read it twice and I'm too busy reading The Art of War to change that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Double A

I already read it twice and I'm too busy reading The Art of War to change that.

---

You can read The Art in an hour... :wink:

Too many fun video games and forums to be reading books in spare time right now. I only read during school when I don't have anything else to do.

Im in if this starts. Absolutely adore the books im halfway through A Feast For Crows right now

ye pm me when it starts.

I want to be in; I love the setting (now going through A Feast For Crows, should get to an end of saga in a week or two)

In when this starts.

I must say, I'm quite liking the look of this. In. I've just started 'A Feast for Crows,' in case anybody was remotely curious.

I'm thinking that when Capo is finished (not for a few weeks yet it looks) I'll put up a poll for turn length and ask everybody to pm me with 3 choices for faction in order of preference, with the unfathomable fetish for Starks that so many readers/watchers seem to have I assume they will be oversubscribed, and with their awesomeness the Lannisters probably will be also. It'll probably come down to random.org.

I was pondering the public write up being a raven delivering a letter the the Night's Watch bringing it up to date on the latest goings on in the Kingdom, while also telling the story of life on the wall (which will not vary overly from canon without player interference). Each factions write up per phase will be from the point of view of one of their characters, probably also involving ravens.

That sounds good - I like the idea of the ravens. As to the factions, the Starks and Lannisters are too prominent for my liking - if we can be part of a minor 'faction' I would love to be Walder Frey (having read Storm of Swords I like his style!), but in regards to major factions Dorne and Storm's End look nice.

jht: I would love to play this, but I've not even finished the first book yet, and not going to even look at the TV show til I've read the lot, so I may not be able to allow myself. Please put me down as a tentative in and I'll drop out before it starts, if I've not done the reading :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LazyMcCrow

jht: I would love to play this, but I've not even finished the first book yet, and not going to even look at the TV show til I've read the lot, so I may not be able to allow myself. Please put me down as a tentative in and I'll drop out before it starts, if I've not done the reading :)

---

It'll be good few weeks before it starts, and hopefully I'll get enough player to have a few in every faction so there should be somebody to help you along. Knowledge of the books/series isn't actually required, all the information you need to play will be available to you. Knowing the lore will just make it more fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnhughthom

I'm thinking that when Capo is finished (not for a few weeks yet it looks) I'll put up a poll for turn length and ask everybody to pm me with 3 choices for faction in order of preference, with the unfathomable fetish for Starks that so many readers/watchers seem to have I assume they will be oversubscribed, and with their awesomeness the Lannisters probably will be also. It'll probably come down to random.org.

---

I want to be Greyjoy!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnhughthom

It'll be good few weeks before it starts, and hopefully I'll get enough player to have a few in every faction so there should be somebody to help you along. Knowledge of the books/series isn't actually required, all the information you need to play will be available to you. Knowing the lore will just make it more fun.

---

I'd like to know more about it though. For instance, it might be interesting to have a more 'flexible' body of payers taking on the roles of sellswords and hedge knights

Updated example faction role pm for turn one:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/...34-500-281.jpg
I'm not in the game, silly.

Still a WIP, but it shouldn't change much. Character traits come into effect when attempting an action, only the main character can carry out an action, but a vassal can be ordered to carry the actual mission out. For example if Cersei was to order Sandor Clegane to attack a target, her stats would be used with Sandor's bonus applied. Minor characters cannot be used for actions, but their bonuses apply constantly. NPC characters can be given orders, but the results will be out of the player's hands.

I'm as hyped as Pinkie Pie.

So, I've come to a slight roadblock in my plans. Melisandre. How to have her in game without her being overpowered, or totally nerfed. I have a few ideas, which I'm not going to post as I don't want her abilities public, just looking for some other thoughts to consider before I decide.

Is it possible to join if you hadn't read the books? (I'm not much of a fiction reader :S)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arjos

Is it possible to join if you hadn't read the books? (I'm not much of a fiction reader :S)

---

Yes, all the information you need will be given to you.

Just curious, exactly when will this be set. Specifically, will it be

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

before or after Ned is imprisoned/killed?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ishmael

Just curious, exactly when will this be set. Specifically, will it be

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

before or after Ned is imprisoned/killed?

---

That's my other dilemma, I'm open to opinions.

Personally speaking, I think you should set it before that occurrence (trying to avoid spoilers). Otherwise, the Lannisters are a bit too powerful as they essentially control King's Landing, which seems a little unbalanced. Just my 2 cents.

The little I know is from the serie and browsing around, but I agree that with the Lannisters in control of King's Landing is quite unbalanced...

You can also make some "conditional" events: for example, something happens when someone is killed. In this way you can both start the game at the begining of saga, and introduce things that happen later

The most interesting time IMO would be when...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

there is as many kings as possible - Renly, Stannis, Greyjoy, Rob, Joffrey... did I miss someone? There could be also king of people behind the Wall and Deanerys... At this moment control over King's Landing is not as OP as it may seem

As for Melisandre: limited (like, someone of royal blood must sacrifice himself in order for her to get one use of it) assassination ability + limited protection against assassination?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jarema

You can also make some "conditional" events: for example, something happens when someone is killed. In this way you can both start the game at the begining of saga, and introduce things that happen later

---

That's a large part of the game already.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnhughthom

That's a large part of the game already.

---

:2thumbsup:

So how would combat function in this game? Would it just be that the side with the most troops wins, or would external factors such as terrain play a part (for example, would a house like Dorne have a bonus for fighting guerilla actions in their homeland)?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ishmael

So how would combat function in this game? Would it just be that the side with the most troops wins, or would external factors such as terrain play a part (for example, would a house like Dorne have a bonus for fighting guerilla actions in their homeland)?

---

Troop numbers, leadership of the general, terrain, and "other" factors.

Dorne !!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnhughthom

That's my other dilemma, I'm open to opinions.

---

Should be pre John Arrans death.

Hrm I dont think that would be a good idea; if john arryn manages to avoid being assassinated in this game, the entire premise could end up derailed, seeing as his death is the event that starts the whole debacle.
Incidentally; in when it starts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sprig

Should be pre John Arrans death.

---

That's not an option, the dilemma is more Ned Stark and Renly. 99% sure it will start after Renly has left, not sure whether Stark should have the option to do things differently as it would kind of go against his character. I'm leaning toward just after he has been arrested, which will give the Lannisters the decision to make on what to do with him. Assuming Joff doesn't do something rash... :laugh4:

So can factions assassinate their own family members? Because I think a few Lannisters (read: Tyrion) might want for Joffrey to have an 'accident'....