It's not EBII but.....

It was a sunday afternoon, rather than be productive as I should have been I found myself on the toilet skimming through Youtube. I was searching for Medievall II mods after our good friend stratigos vasilios had recommended I try a few out. That's when I came across this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjMW...eature=related

I'm not sure if people have posted about this mod. Even from this short video it's clear this mod is anachronistic (New Kingdom Egyptians versus Imperial Rome, La Téne C & D Gauls versus Danubian Legions etc.) and I am not posting this video for mod bashing purposes. Rather I was wondering if the EBII team was aware of this mods development, and if so it might be an idea to get in contact with the developers. They certainly seem to have very good skinners judging by the Persian and Greek troops. Also it does appear this mod has borrowed elements from EB judging by some of the skins on the Gauls.

If anything, this video gives us an idea of the possibilites of EBII, especially the Iranian troops of which (as far as I am aware) no screenshots have been released.

I'm not 100% sure, but that looks like running on the ETW's engine...

oh neat, horribly anachonistic but very neat indeed. Tho I think many textures are "borrowed" from Rise and fall.

A nice thing about thisone is a thing I think many M2TW+ mods almost totally ignore, or keep to a absolute minimum: Unit variation. With that the mod plays rather nicely apart from romans who all look the same^^.

No, that's the medieval II engine alright. I can really see it because of the vanilla MTWII textures that I don't like.

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Originally Posted by Ca Putt

Tho I think many textures are "borrowed" from Rise and fall.

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A lot of stuff is "borrowed" from EB as well. Both the red and the white blankets on the elephants at 00:57 are taken from EB. And that general at 2:36 is the EB Arverni general. Those gallic shield designs seem to be from EB too...

Also the shields of the italian cavalry which is from the Samniti milites, at least that's how it looks from afar tho the Ajors shield really is 1:1 EB^^, not to forget those moustaches of those Gauls, I'd recognize those everywhere :D
The thing is that "borrowing" textures from mods(without asking) is a nono whereas borrowing textures from games is borderline illegal. Eventho I have often seen people copy stuff from R&F, have yet to hear of any legal measures against them. The thing with R&F is that they have pretty and very flashy textures that are perfect for high res RTS, as the game also has a FP"S" mode in which you see all the details^^ That said they also have Imperial Triarii and lots of "the mummy returns"egyptians.

Correction: further research showed that it's actually this modd(or a version of it and yes, there are elements of EB^^) http://empiretw.ru/board/index.php?showtopic=32775

If I'm not mistaken it's made by the same guy, can't remember exactly his name, who got banned from TWC and here for using our and other's people material w/o asking for permission.

Jup that's my hunch aswell.

banzai according to my memors & the site^^

It does look very pretty though. Maybe Tux should make an EBII video to compare the prettiness...

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Originally Posted by stratigos vasilios

It does look very pretty though. Maybe Tux should make an EBII video to compare the prettiness...

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And who would finish other eye candy work like strat map characters, units, etc..

That link has some obvious copy and pasted unitcards also. In the second picture from the top all have been taken from EB except for possibly the 3rd last horse and the identical 3rd, 4th and 5th units. That's blatant theft unless someone gave permission?

No we didn't that's why Banzai, tks for reminding me Ca putt, and his mod got banned from here and twc.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...N-Ancient-Wars
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=521141

We should send the Celtic Viking retrieve Banzai's head.

No Problem, mutual respect and acknowledgment amongst modders is one of the things I hold somewhat high.

No wonder he has fled to some strange russian forum^^

i guess i'll never understand whats so bad about taking other peoples stuff without filling out 3 pages of requests first...
i can understand it if a company does not want it, since they are trying to make money out of it, but with stuff thats distributed freely anyway? where is the problem? (aside from hurt pride for not being asked about it, or feelings that your stuff is "misused", but that are no real problems, just stupid aspects of human life which stand in the way of a better understanding between people :D ) it's not like somebody would take something away...
open source stuff 4 the win ;)

yea i know, i'm totally fighting a lost battle there

We talk again when you spent a couple of years of your spare time to create something for free and then another one just uses it without giving you credit (and therefore getting the praise from the people that don't know about your work). ;-)

@Topic:
Instead of that (seemingly bugged and small) mod just play Paeninsula Italica II.
Looks better (really!), features accurate history and breathtaking eyecandy like a stratmap model of the famous port of Carthage and the Via Appia (via event), playable Samnites, Boii, Ligurians and a dozen more peoples and has so far the most immersive MII:TW map I ever saw.
And no stolen work included. :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Shadowwalker

We talk again when you spent a couple of years of your spare time to create something for free and then another one just uses it without giving you credit (and therefore getting the praise from the people that don't know about your work). ;-)

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The usage part isn't the problematic aspect of it - they could be using your work for their own private amusement. The real problem is that they - be it implicitly or explicitly - pass of your work as their own. Or (for example, if it's a text) change it and then publish it, perverting the original message and intent.

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Originally Posted by fightermedic

i guess i'll never understand whats so bad about taking other peoples stuff without filling out 3 pages of requests first... i can understand it if a company does not want it, since they are trying to make money out of it, but with stuff thats distributed freely anyway? where is the problem? (aside from hurt pride for not being asked about it, or feelings that your stuff is "misused", but that are no real problems, just stupid aspects of human life which stand in the way of a better understanding between people :D ) it's not like somebody would take something away...

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Why should I not feel possessive about my own creations? If I were write a book or create a piece of art, I'd like to have some say in what happens with it.

I don't have any problems with open-source, but the idea of copyright is a sound one. Without copyright, the profits of any successful creative work would go to the biggest thief. It doesn't matter whether these profits come in the form of fame or money or website hits, the creator deserves the right to profit from his creation. And if he chooses not to sell it, that still doesn't make it OK for to do so.

Now, if you wish to argue that copyright duration is too long, that copyright protection is often excessive, that SOPA is evil, and so on, I am right there with you. But copyright itself is good.

To futher Ludens' point, without copyright or any way to protect what is 'yours' then the whole creation process itself would stagnate. Ideas would spread slowly and people would hoard things....capitalism itself wouldn't work, neither would modern medicine or any of the luxury things we take for granted (ipods/automobiles/quadruple-ply extra-soft mega thickness toiletpaper)

And in the case of a mod, these people are doing the work and have not explicitly labelled this stuff as 'free-for-all'. You can use it, just.... ask first and give credit.

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Originally Posted by Blxz

capitalism itself wouldn't work, neither would modern medicine or any of the luxury things we take for granted (ipods/automobiles/quadruple-ply extra-soft mega thickness toiletpaper)

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Without the intention to start any discussion about it I'd like to strongly disagree about this rather simplified world view*.
Medical knowledge is hoarded (search for "BAYER/Anthrax" or "South Africa/Anti AIDS generical medicine/G.W. Bush/WTO" for two very clear examples) and capitalism "works" for a minority of the world's population only (the exact percentage depending on - for example - how you define "life-threatening poverty" ).
Another thing: if only the copyright can make the world go round - how did mankind ever invent all the things up to the invention of copyrights, including clear luxury (for about the same percentage of people as nowadays)? ;-)

As I said - I don't want to start a huge discussion about this but there is a bit more to the "copyright subject"...
I agree to the general statement that copyrights are a good thing though.


(*No offense intended, Blxz - I just can't word it better.)

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Originally Posted by fightermedic

i guess i'll never understand whats so bad about taking other peoples stuff without filling out 3 pages of requests first...

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Three reasons:

1st: It is a matter of respect to the original creator of that piece of art/code. You don't properly credit a guy who's stuff you find so good that you include it into your own mod means you don't respect that guy.

2nd: "Public Applause" is the only reward a modder gets for polishing his mod into publicity releasable form and offering support for people downloading it. When you go and steal that mod, or parts of it, for your own applause you are indeed taking away something that belongs to someone else, even though it cannot be measured in coins. The absolut least thing to do would be to proberly credit the creators so that they get the applause they have earned themselves.

3rd: It is a common custom of the modding community. So in case you go and give somelese's work as yours you are voilating the customs of the community and that you not only don't care about that particular modder but also about the entire community.

Exactly... I think he is the creator of Thera mod for m2tw.

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Originally Posted by Shadowwalker

I'd like to strongly disagree about this rather simplified world view*.

(*No offense intended, Blxz - I just can't word it better.)

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Of course it is simplified. I wrote 3 lines of text. I am not going to go into an economics discussion on a history forum. Suffice to say that capitalism does work and almost all other forms, so far employed, do not work consistently in our society.

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Originally Posted by Blxz

Of course it is simplified. I wrote 3 lines of text. I am not going to go into an economics discussion on a history forum.

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Heh. Point taken. :laugh4:

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Suffice to say that capitalism does work and almost all other forms, so far employed, do not work consistently in our society.

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Okay, let's agree to disagree here. Seems we have a completely different definition of "it's working" - nothing to start an argument about in this forum though... as you said. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Ca Putt

Jup that's my hunch aswell.

banzai according to my memors & the site^^

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yep-that's the one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8lW0OMvWmQ is that etw mod fyi

>this thread
>people still thinks that the "capitalism" nowadays is the same that it was in the 1950 instead of a mix of leftwing ideas and right wing ones

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Originally Posted by sunburst123

>this thread
>people still thinks that the "capitalism" nowadays is the same that it was in the 1950 instead of a mix of leftwing ideas and right wing ones

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Don't mix american-ism with capitalism. America is more socialist than they think.

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8lW0OMvWmQ is that etw mod fyi

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The legionary helmets look odd in that mod and I think EBII will outdo them in the graphical sense on an older engine

Ohh god... ~:)

Toon is also making a mediveal 2 mod around this time period called "wars of the gods ancient wars" and it's for kingdoms http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=491724

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Originally Posted by Pharoah ramese II

Toon is also making a mediveal 2 mod around this time period called "wars of the gods ancient wars" and it's for kingdoms http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=491724

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Oh dear, looks like Toon has also been using alot of EB skins, just look at the Gauls, I can see Casse Batroas and Arverni Arjos shields.

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Originally Posted by Brennus

Oh dear, looks like Toon has also been using alot of EB skins, just look at the Gauls, I can see Casse Batroas and Arverni Arjos shields.

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More probably these parts are shared with Res Gestae who's main skinner and modeler, Prometheus, has also worked for the original EB and is credited. For example the shields we can see in one of the units that one can recognise from the milnaht (Belgae warrior unit) is in both mods.

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Originally Posted by Moros

More probably these parts are shared with Res Gestae who's main skinner and modeler, Prometheus, has also worked for the original EB and is credited. For example the shields we can see in one of the units that one can recognise from the milnaht (Belgae warrior unit) is in both mods.

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Touché. I stand corrected. Not a great detail of unit variation employed in his work, the Romans are clones.

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Originally Posted by Brennus

Oh dear, looks like Toon has also been using alot of EB skins, just look at the Gauls, I can see Casse Batroas and Arverni Arjos shields.

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well i think he asked for permission to use those

Copylefted.

http://youtu.be/EYRvg0j5Xic