Hell is other people.

I probably just need to rant. If you feel like reading it, go right ahead.

I have had a life-long problem with the reliability of other people. It started with my parents being divorced when I was five, taking my only, best friend, my dad, out of the picture most days of the week. Then, when I was seven, the man disappeared for 7 years due to a crack cocaine addiction. Now, he's good for a phone call, but he's got his own problems to deal with. I have issues with my mother I'd prefer not to go into, but long story short, I simply cannot rely on that person either. We don't speak, and it's because I have been burned by her way too many times in ways you honestly wouldn't expect from your own flesh and blood. [And please, spare me the sanctimonious "but its your mother, dude...", not everyone has a mother that acts like one.]

Can't rely on my family, so I've been struggling on my own for a while. Friends? I've always had trouble making friends and the ones I've made IRL have been little more than occasional companionship. I mean, I've never had a friend that would help me move, for example. That may be more commonplace these days I suppose.

I've always been distrusting, throughout my whole life other people have simply been a source of broken promises and outright torment. I tell the details of my life to some people and they wonder why I am actually a kind and sensitive person, instead of a misanthrope with a grudge against the world. I could have that attitude, but I don't see any point in being hateful towards individual people who have done me no harm.

Instead, I simply have my guard up, and for good reason. The past couple years, I've bounced from one unstable and temporary shelter to another, after being unemployed for a long time and just plain broke, I finally got a job and a place to stay. Within months of that happening, all my roommates decided to pack up and leave with only a week's notice.

A WEEK.

I found a place in time, that I could afford, but I soon found out that the place was a bug-infested hell hole with no hot water, no air conditioning, 1 working burner on the stove, half the electrical outlets in the bedroom didn't work, and roomates that would stay for a week or a month and then leave. Oh, and one of them literally tried to murder my other roommate with a gun at a range of about 4 feet through the bedroom window.

So I finally move out of there and get a new place to stay, having scrimped and saved at my new job to afford a place, if I split the rent. I am a dumb, dumb, dumb person and I got a place with a co-worker of mine who used to manage his own store. I figured this one would be responsible, since he's employed, works hard, and once held a position of greater responsibility than I have now.

How mistaken was I?

3 weeks into our year-long lease with the several hundred dollar penalty for breaking the agreement, he quits his job with no warning and informs me he's moving to North Carolina.

I am now screwed professionally because this guy was working 50+ hours a week as our ONLY full-time prep cook, and our store is already severely understaffed to the point where I can't even manage the store because I have to fill in for everyone else we don't have, but I am also now screwed personally because now I'm saddled with a lease agreement I can't afford.

Obvious solution is to get another roommate. Yeah, I know... and I'll have to grit my teeth and roll the dice on another person, and make sure I'm properly prepared to get shafted again.

I just don't understand people, and I want to believe there's better out there. I just haven't experienced it that much in real life.

Now, here on the .org, I've come across some excellent people.

Where the heck are you? Why do you only seem to exist on the internet? Why aren't there intelligent, responsible, reliable people like the ones I've met on here, down where I live?

I have just had it with people. I've never been able to rely on anyone except myself, and unfortunately, the world is not designed in such a way that self-reliance is enough. I always have to tie my fate to a one-sided business arrangement where I take all the risk, and the terms are dictated to me. Then in my personal life, I cannot just be by myself... I have to tie my home, security, financial stability, and privacy to someone else. Someone who invariably puts me over a barrel and uses me until I bleed.

I'm so tired of being surrounded by people, and yet feeling so utterly alone. I can deal with being poor and having to work hard, I just hate being screwed by other people for little or no reason at all, and being forced back into agreements with other people where I can get screwed again. I want to be by myself if I am the only person I can rely on, but I can't be by myself.

Need to raise the danged living wage so a person can afford to live as a single person, without having to pair off to split expenses. This isn't even a ritzy place to live, it's the fricking ghetto where people get shot at and there's cops everywhere constantly and my co-workers get robbed multiple times a year. You'd think you can find a single living situation here, but no.

People suck so much sometimes. But for me, it just seems like an endless vacuum of suckage, turned up to full blast.

All right, whiny rant over...

Is this why you are so good at mafia?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Populus Romanus

Is this why you are so good at mafia?

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Actually it's funny, IRL people tend to take advantage of my patience, trust, and understanding. If I played mafia the way I live my life, I'd be pretty bad at it.

When I play mafia and most of the time when I'm online, I am Askthepizzaguy, which is a persona that developed from my days playing Medieval 2 Total War. Back then, I never really played M2TW with other people until later on, so all I ever played against was the computer. I found that the computer was generally a backstabbing son of a Milanese Doge, unworthy of any form of cooperative or even peaceful diplomacy unless your intent was to screw over the computer and backstab them first. I would first go out and trade maps, trade rights, peace, alliance, and all that stuff... for money. Then I'd use that money to raise an army of generals and peasants so large that I could take their capitals and castles with ease, and use the pillaging money and better facilities and three-times the starting area of my kingdom to raise a real army and destroy the whole world at once, often times breaking records for how fast the map got conquered. Mostly because the computer ticked me off so badly that I decided that any agreement with them wasn't worth the paper it was printed on, it was merely a vehicle for conquering them harder. They have since tinkered with the diplomacy a bit and it seems a bit more balanced, but certain folks will back-stab you a lot anyway.

From there, that sort of aggressive persona kind of stuck. Being distrustful/deceitful and merciless can be useful in a mafia game where you know, for certain, there is a group of people out there who are determined to destroy you through merciless and deceitful behavior. Then the objective is to not believe their lies and defeat them before they kill your whole team, and being distrustful and unforgiving sometimes works in that situation.

I don't believe in such a philosophy for real life, even if it might be quite profitable in the business world. That said, there really is something to be said about trust being earned, not given away. It's a valuable, precious thing, and most people simply cannot afford to give it away to everyone, because that leads directly to being abused relentlessly.

I wish real life was less like a mafia game and more like... you know... trying to coexist with people.

People suck. Always try to maintain the upper hand and insulate yourself

Hey ATPG, if you move to Santa Cruz and find a place with me, we could be roommates.
Reasons why:
1. Santa Cruz is pretty lenient on whether or not you have a home and/or job. Some people make their livings off street performances.
2. I am very good housemate. I would never ditch you without 1 months notice. I actively clean the bathrooms and I always clean the dishes I use and don't leave them in the sink.
3. You can trust me because I don't trust/like people either. In fact, I am in the same spot as you. I like the people here on the org better than people I meet in RL. Here on the org, everyone is smarter than me and tells why my arguments are utter ****, but most people in RL I can't say the same.


Also, I do not have a gun on me, and thus I would not attempt to murder you.

It's easier to be nice on the Internet.

Hang in there. And whatever you do, try not to totally stop trusting people. Because it's easy to be suspicious and believe that everyone is out to get you. But once you start believing that and become a loner, it's not easy going back to trusting people, even if they are sincere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rajpoot

It's easier to be nice on the Internet.

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My experience tells me it is the exact opposite actually.

Well on the ORG most people don't need to do commitment so there are few if any promises to break. I think the most comparable thing is modding teams or ORG staff. Either way the trouble caused by someone not keeping his promises is relatively small, beyond disappointment. Secondly, on the ORG if your behaviour is just atrocious you can get kicked out; real life doesn't have a TOS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

My experience tells me it is the exact opposite actually.

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That wasn't in reference to your post actually, but what OP said. I did not see your post until after I finished typing and pressed the button.

Each to own though. I personally find that it's easier to not get irritated by people or get mad at them, when you can't actually see them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rajpoot

That wasn't in reference to your post actually, but what OP said. I did not see your post until after I finished typing and pressed the button.Each to own though. I personally find that it's easier to not get irritated by people or get mad at them, when you can't actually see them.

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I am in the same boat as you, I just base my opinion on the observation that all really popular websites revolve around anger and hate. Whether political like HuffPo/Drudge or just general chat Reddit/SA/4chan.

I was thinking about writing a long post, but I'm just going to say this:

The world needs more Pizza.

:bow:

you've been square out of luck man...

oh and this is way you stay at your parents for as long as they allow you to leech them out!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Actually it's funny, IRL people tend to take advantage of my patience, trust, and understanding. If I played mafia the way I live my life, I'd be pretty bad at it.

When I play mafia and most of the time when I'm online, I am Askthepizzaguy, which is a persona that developed from my days playing Medieval 2 Total War. Back then, I never really played M2TW with other people until later on, so all I ever played against was the computer. I found that the computer was generally a backstabbing son of a Milanese Doge, unworthy of any form of cooperative or even peaceful diplomacy unless your intent was to screw over the computer and backstab them first. I would first go out and trade maps, trade rights, peace, alliance, and all that stuff... for money. Then I'd use that money to raise an army of generals and peasants so large that I could take their capitals and castles with ease, and use the pillaging money and better facilities and three-times the starting area of my kingdom to raise a real army and destroy the whole world at once, often times breaking records for how fast the map got conquered. Mostly because the computer ticked me off so badly that I decided that any agreement with them wasn't worth the paper it was printed on, it was merely a vehicle for conquering them harder. They have since tinkered with the diplomacy a bit and it seems a bit more balanced, but certain folks will back-stab you a lot anyway.

From there, that sort of aggressive persona kind of stuck. Being distrustful/deceitful and merciless can be useful in a mafia game where you know, for certain, there is a group of people out there who are determined to destroy you through merciless and deceitful behavior. Then the objective is to not believe their lies and defeat them before they kill your whole team, and being distrustful and unforgiving sometimes works in that situation.

I don't believe in such a philosophy for real life, even if it might be quite profitable in the business world. That said, there really is something to be said about trust being earned, not given away. It's a valuable, precious thing, and most people simply cannot afford to give it away to everyone, because that leads directly to being abused relentlessly.

I wish real life was less like a mafia game and more like... you know... trying to coexist with people.

---

they have been simulating this alot and best way is tit for tat, which comes close to what i believe.

i give trust the first time freely (instead of thinking what have you done to earn my trust, i think what have you done to earn my distrust) if that person then breaks my trust i will no longer trust that person untill suffienciently has been done to earn it back, if possible (kinda depends on what happened.

but ye, i see that its kinda hard with ppl that screw you over never to see you again :P so i just never lend ppl money. either give it and dont expect it back, or dont give it at all.

My mom has it on her fridge so see can always read it 'The problem with reasonable people is that they expect it back'. It's true, it's better to be the predator than the prey. Harden up, care less, cynism is your best ally

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

Also, I do not have a gun on me, and thus I would not attempt to murder you.

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You can murder an unarmed roommate just as easily without a gun. (heck, just plunge a knife into their throat as they are sleeping)
Having a gun does in no way affect your ability or desire to kill your roommate. Their mental state is the only thing that affects that, and if I had someone I trusted, I would feel more secure if they had a gun! (esp. in a neighborhood like that!)
For instance, I have more than 20 guns where I live, and have never killed a soul. ~;) That said, if I wanted to, I would not even use a gun (too easy to trace)!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vuk

You can murder an unarmed roommate just as easily without a gun. (heck, just plunge a knife into their throat as they are sleeping)
Having a gun does in no way affect your ability or desire to kill your roommate. Their mental state is the only thing that affects that, and if I had someone I trusted, I would feel more secure if they had a gun! (esp. in a neighborhood like that!)
For instance, I have more than 20 guns where I live, and have never killed a soul. ~;) That said, if I wanted to, I would not even use a gun (too easy to trace)!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

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You don't need a gun to kill someone when they trust you and you are living with them. You can just as easily use a knife or club. It is not a fight, it is a murder, and the advantage a gun gives you in a fight is irrelevant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

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A simple "Wrong" would have sufficed, but okay. :sweatdrop:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vuk

You don't need a gun to kill someone when they trust you and you are living with them. You can just as easily use a knife or club. It is not a fight, it is a murder, and the advantage a gun gives you in a fight is irrelevant.

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That isn't the point. You didn't read the OP did you?

No need to get Backroomish guys, this is not about gun issues, its about ATPG.

Just stay positive pizza guy. I find in everyday life that people are actually very pleasant, I doubt it's that different where you are. Your problems with people probably come from the fact that you are being forced into what are really pretty unusual living situations with them. But bear in mind you won't be in this situation forever, once you find your feet you know that's you set.

Taking important steps in life like getting your own place are tough right now because of the economic climate. I've wanted to move out of town for a while but I'm stuck living with my parents until I can get a job elsewhere (I could get somewhere here right now but I want a bit of a change)- its sucks atm but I'm happy because I know the future will be good.

Plus you're a clever guy at with a (historically) unprecedented access to information. Even when you struggle financially you can engage your mind in all the finest intellectual pursuits, something that the vast majority of humanity will never achieve!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monk

That isn't the point. You didn't read the OP did you?

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Yes I did, but ACIN made a stupid statement that needed correcting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vuk

Yes I did, but ACIN made a stupid statement that needed correcting.

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You are the type of person that ATPG has met many times.

Buddy, it's called a joke. Take a break and go talk to some Marines. Calm down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vuk

Yes I did, but ACIN made a stupid statement that needed correcting.

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Gah... no you did. Jesus.

Anyway, you've got probably some of the :daisy:test luck ever ATPG. Hope you find a way to work things out for good.

@Askthepizzaguy

You have certainly been unlucky and I can well understand why you don't trust people.

As in many aspects of life there is no black and white set of answers to the issues you raise.

In my own life and particularly in my business dealings I have found a few principles that I try to apply to protect myself. You may find them useful, even if they are potentially a little obvious:

- always consider what are the other person's interests (financial, personal) and whether they are aligned with your own. When a person's interests diverge from your own or even conflict with them you can expect them to act in accordance with their own interests and not in accordance with yours.

- always diversify to protect the downside. for example I work in financial markets so my current job, my compensation and future employment prospects are highly correlated to the performance of the stock and bond markets. Therefore I never make personal stock or bond investments with my savings, or I would suffer a double hit in a bad market. Likewise you could consider never mixing your living situation with work interests - as you've recently learned putting all your eggs in one basket can create serious problems.

- take risks so long as you understand them. In my admittedly limited experience of life it is necessary to take risks in order to progress at more than a snail's pace. The key is understanding those risks, their downside and upside and the likelihood of each. There is a difference between risk which can in principle be quantified and understood, and uncertainty which cannot. Risk is your friend, uncertainty is not.

Of course this might rightly be considered somewhat cynical and I should say that I do believe in both love and friendship which can mitigate risk, provide diversification and downside protection in the context of this analysis. Judgement is your only guide in assessing the strength of these factors and the protection they provide you.

I hope this is in some small way useful and doesn't come across as patronising - it's not intended that way!

All great but acin and atpg WOULD be excellent roommates. Both the silent observer type, both puzzled by stupidity, perfect match. And remember, it isn't really gay if it's your clone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

it isn't really gay if it's your clone.

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Or if it's yourself visiting from the future (if you've read the Time Traveller's Wife you'll know what I mean)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

All great but acin and atpg WOULD be excellent roommates. Both the silent observer type, both puzzled by stupidity, perfect match. And remember, it isn't really gay if it's your clone.

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I heard it wasn't gay if you kept your eyes closed and thought about naked ladies for at least 51% of the experience.

That's where the line is, or so I've been told, and I absolutely will not cross that line. No sir.

You're a typical "nice guy", that's your problem. You exude it and the predators and anal orifices in society can smell it from a mile off... they know they can cut and run and leave you to pick up the pieces without any fear of repercussions...

The truth is that people do indeed "suck".

The answer however is not to be overly defensive and suspicious as that also exudes vulnerability...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgfpJWUYgbg

PIZZA! You've been through worse, you'll make it through this!

I'd have a beer with you, but the distances are a little bit to big.

Its been a while Pizza san :bow:
Sucks that your feeling down and that I can't do much to change that.

Luck is supposed to be fair to everyone in this world.
So in time, the dice will roll to your favour. Until then, why not try something different?
If you can then try traveling to somewhere completely different. That mind give you a well deserved rest, as well as some new discovery.

Like Psychonaut said, you've been through way worse. So I know you'll do the same this time.
And if that doesn't work out... Sucks to be you but you've always got truck full of us Orgahs, who just loves our Pizzaguy:clown:

Look Pizza you simply cannot allow people to walk all over you. Once I lent a friend some money when he needed cash and I had a surplus. Then when it was three months later he still hadn't paid me back at all. I knew he had cash but he simply refused to give me money. I was "tolerant" of it because I still had cash. Then when I had no money and needed help he still wouldn't pay me back. So you know what I did?

I took the *** to small claims court. Only after he gave me back what he owed me I dropped it. He had proved he was a crappy friend so I went for his damn jugular. Sometimes when your getting stomped on you gotta grab that **** by the ankle and twist until he's on he ground and your the one stomping.

You are a good man pizza and deserve better than the way you are being treated. You should know though that you can be a good guy and still be tough at the same time. I'm infinitely loyal to my friends and will do anything for them but I never allow myself to be used or walked over and neither should you, you deserve and should demand better.

Beefy said it better then i could find words for apart the travelling part (one needs money for that also). For those who feel Pizza is being some sort of push over. I think you are completely wrong. Most of us take for granted that we have roof´s over our heads, food to eat and enough money to pay the bills. Put in such situation life tends to take somewhat more darker shades and becomes a struggle.

To me pizza you are a survivor and i can only hope that your luck will turn. To me it is a tragedy that someone with potential like you cant get decent education, in which i am sure you would excel. I can only hope that the fortune will start smiling to you. In any case if anyone.You have given best effort you absolutely can and not have given up in face of the hardships you have had to live through.:bow:

I'm going to join the Pizza-fans bandwagon here.

I know a bit of your life story Pizza and I must say, I am in awe how you manage to keep going. You're a strong man, let nobody tell you otherwise.

And we all love you, that has to count for something ~:grouphug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Centurion1

Look Pizza you simply cannot allow people to walk all over you. Once I lent a friend some money when he needed cash and I had a surplus. Then when it was three months later he still hadn't paid me back at all. I knew he had cash but he simply refused to give me money. I was "tolerant" of it because I still had cash. Then when I had no money and needed help he still wouldn't pay me back. So you know what I did?

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This?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZomwVcGt0LE

Write a book about your life story...your luck may change.

I hope things get better. Sometimes in life all one can cling onto is hope that things improve and the refusal to give Fate the satisfaction of giving up on life.

Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train...

~:smoking:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

I hope things get better. Sometimes in life all one can cling onto is hope that things improve and the refusal to give Fate the satisfaction of giving up on life.

Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train...

~:smoking:

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The train taking you the hell out of New Jersey. Seriously man, it's not an easy or cheap place to live. It sounds like you don't have too much holding you where you are now. It may be time for a change of scenery.

Been rereading your post atpg and I ask you to consider something. I am probably the person you dislike, but isn't helll just you and how you want things to be. Any social dealing is competive in a way, and intentions aren't always bad. Example, we had an Canadian expat here who we all liked, turned out he really didn't apreciate the jokes thrown at him, we were pretty amazed when he left because he thought everybody picked on him, we did but it was just poking fun. Maybe you just aren't very good at being social, just a thought. Not in any way meant as critisism or a personal attack just trying to offer a perspective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrdEMERq8MA

Remember if life gives you lemons make lemonade. You can't always choose how things happen to you but how you respond to life's obstacles is always the challenge for us.

Marry your room-mates' mothers and commit incest with them nightly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Been rereading your post atpg and I ask you to consider something. I am probably the person you dislike, but isn't helll just you and how you want things to be. Any social dealing is competive in a way, and intentions aren't always bad. Example, we had an Canadian expat here who we all liked, turned out he really didn't apreciate the jokes thrown at him, we were pretty amazed when he left because he thought everybody picked on him, we did but it was just poking fun. Maybe you just aren't very good at being social, just a thought. Not in any way meant as critisism or a personal attack just trying to offer a perspective.

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While there is truth to what you say, people still are *&#$#s. You should not need to ignore it, or compete to be a bigger #$*). They should simply not be *#(%$#s. That said, people are, and I agree you do have to just get on with it. Your life is what you make out of it. Some of given more than others, and therefore have the potential to achieve more (both happiness and material possessions or position) than others, but still, the difference between a good life and a bad life is left up to you. The good thing is that the more people are given, the less ambitious they often are. ~;)
I am not trying to belittle your struggles ATPG, but the saying is true that life is what we make it. Just control what you can, ignore what you can't, and try to enjoy yourself (even if life isn't exactly ideal).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vuk

While there is truth to what you say, people still are *&#$#s. You should not need to ignore it, or compete to be a bigger #$*). They should simply not be *#(%$#s. That said, people are, and I agree you do have to just get on with it. Your life is what you make out of it. Some of given more than others, and therefore have the potential to achieve more (both happiness and material possessions or position) than others, but still, the difference between a good life and a bad life is left up to you. The good thing is that the more people are given, the less ambitious they often are. ~;)
I am not trying to belittle your struggles ATPG, but the saying is true that life is what we make it. Just control what you can, ignore what you can't, and try to enjoy yourself (even if life isn't exactly ideal).

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But everything is a competition, let's say you talk to a woman you are attracted to, you are still basicly bargaining. It's all a game, and not playing it is a mere choice imho

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vuk

the saying is true that life is what we make it. Just control what you can, ignore what you can't, and try to enjoy yourself (even if life isn't exactly ideal).

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that i totally agree with and how i go about life.

Pizza, you have seen some of the worst life can throw at you as a child and you have come out of it strong. Do not lose trust in people. It is only a matter of time before you meet the right kind of people. In the mean while ensure your financial stability and health are never at risk.

I was in the US for 10 years, as a student and a professional. There is world of difference between the 2 periods. My student life was similar to your current life but without your level of roommate issues. I am not aware of your education level. But from what i have seen, your life changes drastically (for the better) once you get decent education. And the support structure in place to get education is more that what anyone should expect. Also, i have lived in NY/NJ and a few other places as well. It is a good idea to get a change of scenery and assess your future options. Getting out of your confort zone may not be easy...but it might be essential. There are opportunities out there for you to improve your living conditions. You are an intelligent person and i am sure you will find the one most suitable to you.

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20110722.gif
http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20110722after.gif

Remember that there is always someone worse off than you, unless you are the most unfortunate person in the world.