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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...father-1521289
You probably heard of the horrible rape in India and the public outrage and riots. They got it wrong I think, this was no ordinary rape I think but a class issue. She was with a guy from a different class 'who was not her boyfriend', and they were attacked with iron staves. In a bus. Yeah right I also bring one wherever I go. There is absolutely a problem with rapes in India but I am not buying this.
?? Where exactly are you getting this 'class issue' thing from?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
The six people involved were lowlifes who saw a girl and her friend (or boyfriend) and decided to take advantage of the girl once they boarded the bus. When they resisted they were beaten up, the girl was raped and then tortured.
Things have settled down now, and considering how angry everyone is, at least five of them will either hang or they'll be in prison for a long time. The sixth, who's a few months shy of 18, will probably get off with nominal punishment, which is actually what is bothering everyone now.
I don't don't know about you but I never carry iron staves around. This was no ordinary rape.
It was a private bus. It was not a large iron staff but a rod....probably something like a crowbar from the tool box.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
You're basing your theory on a very flimsy base.
Quoting from Wikipedia article -
Quote:
When Awindra tried to intervene, he was beaten, gagged and knocked unconscious with an iron rod. The men dragged the woman to the rear of the bus, beating her with the rod and raping her while the bus driver continued to drive. Medical reports later suggested that the woman suffered serious injuries to her abdomen, intestines and genitals due to the assault, and doctors say that the damage indicates that a blunt object (suspected to be the iron rod) may have been used for penetration. That rod was later described by police as being a rusted, L-shaped implement of the type used as a wheel jack handle.
Don't think so, why would they have iron rods even if it was a private company. This stinks.
Read my post again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Caste based violence here has been brutal, but this is nothing of that sort.
Either way it's past 12 in the night here and I've already read way too much news articles on this topic in the past 20 minutes to last me through my sleeping hours. I suggest you check them out if you want more information, before making up theories.
Article says iron bars, plural. So more people had one.Quote:
Originally Posted by rajpoot
The article is from the website of a British daily, giving news about a crime in India. The Indian media is not known for its credibility, but this has been a highly publicised case so the chances of them getting such facts wrong are slight.
Furthermore basing your entire theory around whether there was one iron rod from a tool box or multiple iron bars, while ignoring the many many news reports on the topic is, to put it mildly rather silly.
What I cannot fathom is why are you so bent on trying to see this as caste crime?
Can't blame me for errors in article. I thought so because they belong to different classes, and because the article said iron bars, plural. If there are multiple iron bars more people must have brought one. If you add it up the girl and the guy were probably lovers. The driver and his assistant bribed by the guy's family, and the passengers thugs for hire
That's a good summary every single one of frag's 23 504 posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by rajpoot
Anyway, did you guys catch that awsome-o Guru? I give him a "10" if he attempted to make the mullahs look better by comparison...
Edit: also, I read this thread in-between pausing to exhale the chili of my chicken tikka. Most appropriate meal I've had this year!
He'll get his fair share of flak for the inane remarks. Regrettably most of the flak will probably be in from of comments on news articles and a further dip in his popularity. Ideally he should be locked in with some kind of hungry carnivore or something and then asked to chant his mantras to see if it helps save him.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
I wouldn't have thought this makes for good meal-time news. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
The civilized way.Quote:
Originally Posted by rajpoot
The barbarian way.Quote:
Originally Posted by rajpoot
Indian food is great at all times. ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by rajpoot
On the assumption that Delhi is like Dubai, which is essentially an Indian city with a lot of construction and no desire to tidy any building waste up, then there's likely plenty of Rebar just lying about the place, no need to bring it with you
Oh shoo. If it is as it is as in the Guardian, multiple iron bars, howwould you explain that. They have been going out, I take it the other passengers as well as it was a private bus. The iron bars must allready have been in the bus as you don't carry them around, or the other passengers didn't go out at all and had no other reason to be in that bus. You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to see thatbsomething isn't quite right hereQuote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
99% sure the police should have a chat with the family of the guy. Rape is humiliation, and class is a big issue in India it's a parallel society, intertwining said societies is not accepted and when it does happen it can be brutal.
Guardian is no rag, if there weren't multiple iron bars it would have been rectified by now. I am just smarter than you.
Edit, how is the guy doing by the way, still recovering from his injuries or was he he just held back
The problem is that you shouldn't attempt to explain it. You have no access to any evidence, and so any theories you put forth will only be a fantasy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
And not surprisingly, your theory turned out to be dead wrong. Baseless speculation usually is.
No need to have any if it's 6 vs 2, so bus stopped, they went out to look for iron bars, and stepped back in?Quote:
Originally Posted by Catiline
Has yet to be turn out to be dead wrong, I will happily mea culpa if I am wrong but I kinda doubt I am. Earth isn't going to take a day off if I am so no harm done.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
The male friend was no where as badly injured as the girl, and has recovered now. Last news I read of him was how his family was demanding compensation like the girl's family got, since their son too got beaten up but no one (read news channels and newspapers) paid enough attention to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Take my word for it. And look at it logically. I don't ever remember reading about an honour killing that involved the murderers raping their victim before killing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
I am looking at it logically, just how likely is it that this was spontanious. She probably never was supposed to be dead, he just had to watch her being humiliated. He tried to protect her and recieved a few injuries of his own but he wasn't beaten upas badly as the girl was. You guys got it all wrong this was not just a rape.Quote:
Originally Posted by rajpoot
They raped her with a iron rod and tore her intestines out. Then dumped her on the road side with her friend, who's family in your opinion paid them to humiliate her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
That's about it yeah, he was probably forced to watch this poor girl being raped and beaten. I don't buy the official story I am not that stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by rajpoot
Why aren't you asking some questions
There WERE multiple iron rods
It was a private bus
The men who attacked her weren't seen in aything but were there at an odd time
The guy suffered only minor injuries
We have an honour crime here. It is not exclusive to muslims to have them and that doesn't suit everybody very well it seems. If you think it over anyone sane should know that this was no ordinary rape
:on_exhausted:
OK Frag.
Also, the rapists were Hitler, Elvis, John Lennon and Andy Kaufman who were given those iron rods by the U.S. government who had obtained them from the Twin Towers, which they themselves had destroyed.
As for the owners of that bus company? Jews.
It all works out.
Police rapport comfirms it was planned, and that she 'had to die'. You all suck.
Edit, oh and they knew where she was and with who
Good work docter Wattson
Fragony come on! What's with you sticking with this inane theory? I don't know what articles you've been reading, but now that they've put out the girl's name check it out. The boy and the girl were of the same caste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Police reports have only confirmed that the criminals planned to do some misdeeds. They'd robbed another man earlier that day and were out after dinner to find more victims. The girl and the boy were not targeted by some per-designed plan.
Of course they were. And of course the driver and his assistant were bribed, if not they would probably also have injuries, or at least have raised an eyebrow if 4 men with metal bars entered his bus. So they were into it, if they would have been looking for a random victim they wouldn't have looked for one in a private bus. Is it so hard to add things up for you. Time for the police to have a chat with the families, question because I couldn't find it, was the guy also hindu? And if they had robbed a man earlier it is all the more likely they were thugs for hire by the way. Caste theory gone, but someone obviously didn't aprove of what most likely was at least thought of as a relationship between the two.
Five criminals were friends and the sixth, the alleged minor had met them that they. The driver and the conductor did not raise an eyebrow when four men boarded their bus armed with rods because they were all together in it and the one rod was from the toolbox of the bus. The girl and her friend were both of the same caste (and were Hindu) and were chance victims. None of the accused have any injuries because they were not beaten up by their victims.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Again quoting from the Wikipedia.
Also I cannot find any smiley for incredulous-frustration, or else I would've filled and entire post with it.Quote:
The group had been eating and drinking together and "having a party" earlier that day. Afroz had only met the others that day. Although the charter bus which Ram Singh drove on weekdays was not permitted to pick up public passengers or even to operate in Delhi because of its tinted windows, they decided to take it out "to have some fun". With Mukesh Singh driving, they first picked up a carpenter who was charged Rs. 10 for a ticket and then robbed of Rs. 8,000 and ejected in South Delhi. They then turned back and a half hour later, picked up the couple who were charged Rs. 10 each.
So the bus driver and his assistant just decided it was great fun? Why pick a random victim who is in company with somebody? Nah, bull.
Here we come upon a deeper question. Why do criminals commit crimes. Do they think it is fun? Did they think that taking out the bus despite the fact that they weren't allowed to do it be fun? Did they think robbing a poor man of his hard earned money would be fun? Did they think raping and torturing a girl would be fun? I do not know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Either way I'm done debating this with you because honestly there's nothing to debate here. Facts are facts.
I have a much simplier question, if the bus driver and his assistant weren't into this it would have be 3 vs 4, worth the try especially if one of the criminals was a minor. The busdriver and his assistant would have had bruises if they wouldn't have been involved. They don't have any so I think they were bribed. What are the chances that two people who don't know the other four suddenly decide to participate in a gangrape while on the job? Pretty slim I'd say.
Man common, from your own article: Sharma said the victims got on the off-duty chartered bus when the driver called out to them, saying he could go to the Palam or Dwarka areas.
Off duty.
Basta edit
Frag, I no longer know whether you're simply trying to troll me or if you actually mean what you're saying. The Sharma you refer to is the defence lawyer. He's also said that the girl herself is responsible for her rape and that he has never seen a respectable woman get raped, and even underworld dons treat such women with respect and refrain from touching them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Furthermore you begin by saying 'if the bus driver and his assistant weren't into this' despite the fact that I've mentioned more than once that the perpetrators all knew each other quite well save the minor who'd met them that very day.
And lastly if you wanted to trap an unwitting couple late during the night, with mischief in your mind and were driving a bus, I'm sure you'd offer to drop them some place and not get down and pull them in as if you were kidnapping them.
Please get your facts right before you start theorising.
Not trolling you, honestly. I am a creature of intuition and I am pretty sure I am right here
OK, in that case it is my sincere request that if you can find the time and inclination, you should read up the articles on the various websites, carefully, and you're sure to see that the facts I've noted in my posts check out.
Let me make a numbered list.
- The boy and the girl were both Hindu and of the same caste, and they were supposed to be just friends (although the last bit I doubt).
- They had gone for a late evening movie.
- The six people in the bus all knew each other. One of the six is supposed to be 17 years and 8 months old, and had met the other five that very day.
- All six of them had been 'having a party'. They had been eating and drinking.
- They had already robbed a man earlier that day.
- After dinner they decided to have some fun. (And I mean fun in the broadest sense possible. IIRC some of them had previous criminal records, including the minor)
- They were not supposed to be out in the bus but the driver took it out for a spin with his 'friends' nonetheless.
- They chanced upon the ill-fated couple who were looking for a bus to take to their locality and decided to take advantage of the girl.
- They invited the couple into the bus and charged them 10 rupees each as fare (same had been done with the man they had robbed earlier).
- By the time the boy and girl realised that something was amiss it was already too late. The girl and her friend were stripped and beaten with an iron bar, most likely a jackscrew considering the shape. The same bar was used to rape the girl multiple times. The boy was beaten each time he tried to get up to protect her.
- They were both dumped on the road naked and bleeding when the six thought they were dead.
Now if you'll check out the articles, you'll see these facts listed one place or the other in some form.
Edit:
I also honestly cannot fathom why I am trying so hard to convince you. :wall:
It's just that everytime you expound on your theory I am compelled to post.
Oh relax, we will never know if I am right anyway
:sweatdrop:
OK. I'll go play World Of Tanks.
You were probably right about this being random Rajpoot, it happened again and again the busdriver was probably involved.
Mea culpa for now
Edit, ow screw it full mea culpa, I got it all wrong.