Might have to betray a friend

Because it would be the right thing to do.

I am pretty sure he is going to hurt his ex, who is also the mother of his daughter, who he isn't allowed to see because of some charges that everybody knows are rediculous. She's birderline type, and gets up with a joint and falls asleep with heroine. She still has the custody while everyone sane knows it's a bad idea, she nearly burned down the house because she was high. I wouldn't even call an ambulance for her if I found her wounded on the street, the :daisy: Some know better I guess. She is also kinda loose I can't remember the number of times she tried to seduce me, piss off. But I am afraid my friend is going to hurt her when he's out. I don't care what happens to her she deserves it, but I do care about what happens to him. He will be really angry with me if I tell the police about my worries.

How did you end up with such a flowery friend?

Can't really advice you, as I haven't even been close to having such white trash problems with my friends.

So... Uh... Get friends who are sane and date normal people <- would be my advice.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

How did you end up with such a flowery friend?

Can't really advice you, as I haven't even been close to having such white trash problems with my friends.

So... Uh... Get friends who are sane and date normal people <- would be my advice.

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My friends would kill someone if I asked them to, and would die for me, as I would for them, can you say the same? There's your friends, you don't have friends you have people you can get along with. I have friends.

All I'm gonna say: Stepping into somebody else's domestic situation is a serious bit of business. And there's a strong possibility you will be perceived as the villain by all. Think carefully before interfering.

There's a reason the #1 situation that gets police killed is domestic disputes.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

My friends would kill someone if I asked them to, and would die for me, as I would for them, can you say the same? There's your friends, you don't have friends you have people you can get along with. I have friends.

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I have friends I think would help me cover up a murder, sure.

Seems like she's pretty terrible and your friend isn't awesome. How about telling him it's a bad idea - because it will just hurt his daughter more?

If the mother is a clapped out druggie, what he needs to do is get his own proverbial together so he can prove the charges are rubbish and get his daughter back.

So, these two are muslims, right?

It actually sounds like the child is in danger. If being left alone uncared for by the mother who is passed out on drugs.

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

It actually sounds like the child is in danger. If being left alone uncared for by the mother who is passed out on drugs.

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A point. Depending on Netherlands law or his own hiring contract, Frags may even be legally REQUIRED to report a suspected child abuse situation to the local Child Protective Services office (probably goes by a different name there).

As a Florida educator, were I to be aware of such a situation and didn't report it, I could be summarily dismissed.

According to a quick google, under the Social Support Act (in Dutch: Wet maatschappelijke ondersteuning - Wmo), such provisions are set up local municipalities. So you would have to investigate the area the child is living in. If there are serious concerns on the welfare of the child, then this might be the best option rather than the police, because at least then, the child will end up being cared up usually with cooperation with the mother.

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

It actually sounds like the child is in danger. If being left alone uncared for by the mother who is passed out on drugs.

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House almost catched fire once when she was too high to notice. My friend would never hurt his daughter but I am not so sure about him hurting his ex, he's a really sweet guy but he is very impulsive, and he is really strong, unstoppable when angry. Kinda have a bad feeling about this.

Get Social Services involved. He might feel very impulsive as the mother is getting away with neglect of the child. If your friend sees people snooping around, he knows he can really mess things up with his daughter, and if he is the sweet guy you say he is, that would be the worst thing possible and prevents him from being a loving and caring father that his daughter needs and as a good friend, you will help guide him along that path.

I know you mainly focused on the friend/mother in this scenario, but there is a third and vulnerable victim involved. Instead of worrying about betraying a friend, think about saving that little girl instead.

Social services aren't on his side. He is a sweet guy but everyone of my friends have a history. So do I. I can only lose, the best thing to do, warning the police might be the worst idea I could possibly have. He will be released from prison the fith of januari and I am worried. He will forgive me and understand eventually, but it feels bad.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

My friends would kill someone if I asked them to, and would die for me, as I would for them, can you say the same? There's your friends, you don't have friends you have people you can get along with. I have friends.

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People don't have to be idiots to be loyal. I have 3 friends, and then a lot of "people I hang with". Each and every one of those 3 friends would follow me even if I charged into hell itself.

But yeah, people suggesting social services and a calm talk with your friends seem to be on the right track imho.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Social services aren't on his side. He is a sweet guy but everyone of my friends have a history. So do I. I can only lose, the best thing to do, warning the police might be the worst idea I could possibly have. He will be released from prison the fith of januari and I am worried. He will forgive me and understand eventually, but it feels bad.

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Police and recently released prisoners don't get along too well.

If he is honestly in your opinion, going to head towards his ex and perhaps cause harm, the best way to do is calm him down. You are on his side and whilst he might be angry or upset, he might make a few misjudgements. Perhaps invite him around to yours, find some pleasant activity to keep his mind of it, also, if he is there with you, he isn't elsewhere which might get others or himself hurt. If he does decide to storm off, then it is your duty to warn the police asap. You might see this as betrayal, but I put it another way. He might arrive, see police cars, then drive past, knowing it is futile and he won't end up doing something which might cost him a long time back in prison. They really dislike previous convicted doing more crime.

If you are really worried/positive he will go out of his way to hurt her, you could probably end up having a pleasant chat with the police. From my experiences, they have been pleasant, if not seeming a little detached at moments (I do have police in the family, so I might be bias). You could say you are worried about your friend messing up, but you will try to keep him out of trouble and will let them know if it hits the fan. That way, at least they 'know' when they get an emergency call, to respond asap and if nothing happens, no harm done.

Friends look out for friends. Friends take care of their friends. So be the good friend you are and help him out, I believe this thread is simply your concern you might be betraying him. The fact you created this thread shows that you care about him.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

How did you end up with such a flowery friend?

Can't really advice you, as I haven't even been close to having such white trash problems with my friends.

So... Uh... Get friends who are sane and date normal people <- would be my advice.

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You seem like a great person.

I know!!

Ich bin auch verdammt heiß und großartig im Bett...

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Originally Posted by Fragony

House almost catched fire once when she was too high to notice. My friend would never hurt his daughter but I am not so sure about him hurting his ex, he's a really sweet guy but he is very impulsive, and he is really strong, unstoppable when angry. Kinda have a bad feeling about this.

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But the thing is, hurting his ex would hurt his daughter psychologically.

Child services is the way to go here Frags. A lot of these places will allow you to place a tip anonymously if you are worried about your own history and I would be surprised if that isn't an option in the Netherlands. It would also mean that it wouldn't be traceable to you by your friends. it would be the best thing to do by the daughter.

Child services are useless, they know she is an addict. That organisation would shame North-Korea when it comes to Kafkasian burocracy, they need trouble more than she needs heroin, when they have decided on picking a side they are like a mammoth tanker heading to a destination, can't turn all that easily. Of course I am going to keep a close eye on him, but in all their wisdom he will be housed again right next to his ex, I will always be too late, and I can't stop him anyway he is incredibly strong and doesn't care about anything anymore, it took six cops to hold him down when he was arrested last time.

I have a little trouble imagining this really strong guy who is about to kill his wife and about to be released from prison for the second or third time as it sounds as "a really sweet guy"...
If he is only sweet towards you and hurts everyone else then he is not "a really sweet guy", he's more like your gang member. :shrug:

And apparently he'd follow you into hell but not listen to you when you tell him not to kill his wife, is that a strong tendency towards violence? I doubt by charging into hell you meant to cuddle with the demons there?

It seems that you have ruined your own trustworthiness as well and you know it, so maybe you have some trustworthy friend left in your group who can talk to someone or do you only hang out with convicted criminals who are really sweet?

If that sounds heavily sarcastic it's because I really can't follow your logic on how sweet everyone really is.

I am not worried about him killing her, but hitting her. Which would make his situation even worse. Frankly, she deserves to be hit, she screwed him over really badly. Just because he's on the wrong side of the government doesn't mean he is a bad guy, the government steals half of your money each day you wake up, who's the criminal. I am worried that he might lose control when he sees his ex, I know what that looks like and I won't be able to stop him. How sane would you be if you found out that your mother was raped when she was 14 and that the rapist is your father. You shouldn't judge him it's incredibly awfull when a good friend bursts into tears and there isn't anything you can do. He's no saint no, but he's not a bad person. And he's not my gangmember I trade antuiques ffs.

"she deserves to be hit"

:no:

Sounds more like she deserves help imho... But oh well, we can't all treat women in a civilized way, can we?

Well yeah, she deserves to be hit and he is a sweet guy.

He and you can break the law because the law is really bad and theft but when people you do not like have less respect for the same law, you have a problem with it...

If he has daddy problems that are so bad that he cannot control himself, he needs to get professional help to get over them. How often do you let that count as an excuse when it's about criminals you never met?

Of course he's your gang member because every single word I say has to be taken literally, especially when preceded by "more like", which is obviously a synonym for "exactly 100%". :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

"she deserves to be hit"

:no:

Sounds more like she deserves help imho...

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Nah. She really doesn't. I wouldn't call an ambulance for her if I found her bleeding to death in a ditch.

You are the average of the 5 people closest to you. Ditch those who poison everything around them and foster healthy relationships instead. Leave your friends to the hell they have created for themselves and offer to reignite the friendship when they decide to stop maliciously harming loved ones and themselves.

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Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg

You are the average of the 5 people closest to you.

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That statement is a bit uncharacteristically new-age mumbojumbo-ish for you, isn't it? When did you join the hippie "believe in the strong woman within yourself and all will be fine"-crusade?

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Originally Posted by Husar

Well yeah, she deserves to be hit and he is a sweet guy.

He and you can break the law because the law is really bad and theft but when people you do not like have less respect for the same law, you have a problem with it...

If he has daddy problems that are so bad that he cannot control himself, he needs to get professional help to get over them. How often do you let that count as an excuse when it's about criminals you never met?

Of course he's your gang member because every single word I say has to be taken literally, especially when preceded by "more like", which is obviously a synonym for "exactly 100%". :rolleyes:

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The only thing I deal in is jugenstil and art-deco, sometimes empire Hussie.

Edit, oh and sometimes arts primitive, africa and oceania.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

That statement is a bit uncharacteristically new-age mumbojumbo-ish for you, isn't it? When did you join the hippie "believe in the strong woman within yourself and all will be fine"-crusade?

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New age? What's new age is to not judge others in any way, putting yourself and your immediate family in danger due to the dangerous life choices and selfishness of ner-do-wells. My ethic is thus: always be ready to help, but do not help until people are ready to help themselves. This is the core of ethical conservatism around the world. Your surprise is likely from how similar it is to your own ethic.

It has worked for me in the past. I've cut out those who show self destructive abuse of drugs, alcohol, depression etc. I will go to great lengths to help my friends and even strangers, but those who would wallow in their self-created abyss should be left to it. The ladder is here when you are ready to get out. (Obviously, those who cannot help themselves should be helped as part of a Christian ethic, but that is another story).

You find it scandalous that the drug addict mom gets custody over the child, but how would your friend take care of his daughter while in jail?

I feel sorry for the child. And I wouldn't be too harsh for the social services who had to pick between the plague and cholera :shrug: They probably decided that it would be less traumatic for the child to be left with her mother than to place her in some facility.

What do you expect the police to do? To guard her house 24/7 or to put your friend back in jail without any form of conviction, only the risk that he'll beat his ex up, as was told to them by that other guy with a criminal record? If the guy is determined to do something stupid, there's nothing you can do to stop him.

I don't see much you can do and I also don't see why you should feel guilty if something happens. Whatever happens, it won't be your fault and you shouldn't blame yourself.

What would I do in your situation? Well, since you're a bachelor and don't have kids (as far as I know), I'd offer my friend to live with me for the first few months after he's released, so that I could keep a close eye on him. But under strict conditions and he will be back on the streets if he doesn't respect them.

I don't think you can do more than that.

'what would I do in your situation? Well, since you're a bachelor and don't have kids (as far as I know), I'd offer my friend to live with me for the first few months after he's released, so that I could keep a close eye on him. But under strict conditions and he will be back on the streets if he doesn't respect them. '

That has been aranged allready weeks ago, he has a Bang&Olufson tv, a Nintendo, and 100 euro to spend every month in jail. When he gets out the fith of januari we'll catch him up just fine. He won't listen tnough he has a bit of a grudge so to say.

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Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg

New age? What's new age is to not judge others in any way, putting yourself and your immediate family in danger due to the dangerous life choices and selfishness of ner-do-wells. My ethic is thus: always be ready to help, but do not help until people are ready to help themselves. This is the core of ethical conservatism around the world. Your surprise is likely from how similar it is to your own ethic.

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The wording still reminds me of something coming out of "the secret" and related nonsense... ~;)

as long as he doesnt hate jews, i dont see the officer problem.

I know how hard it is to stop someone who is really determined, but the attempt must be made. Best if you try it personally IMO even if it ends up in a confrontation between the two of you. If he listens, great - help him through it. If he goes ahead and does something stupid anyway then at least you have tried, at least you have given him the option to choose a different path. If, after your attempt, you are still friends then you can help pick up the pieces after he has finished with his self-destruction. If you are not still friends then wash your hands of the pair of them.

Either way if the child is in any danger then your local social services should be informed.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

House almost catched fire once when she was too high to notice. My friend would never hurt his daughter but I am not so sure about him hurting his ex, he's a really sweet guy but he is very impulsive, and he is really strong, unstoppable when angry. Kinda have a bad feeling about this.

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Make it very, very obvious that he's going to hurt his daughter by hurting his ex. I mean, at best she can hope for is broken parents who shows that they love her and might even fix up their life for her sake. It's still way better than daddy getting a return ticket to jail for beating up mommy.

Children are very much driven by basic emotions. He might have a big enough reason that the forum agrees on it (although that's extremely unlikely). It'll still be daddy goes to prison for beating up mommy for the child.

And the odds for him to be together or even see his child again isn't exactly going to increase.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

It'll still be daddy goes to prison for beating up mommy for the child.

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Actually, no.

It will be "I have been bad and so I caused daddy to beat up mommy and he went to jail, if only I had been nicer he would still be here."

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Actually, no.

It will be "I have been bad and so I caused daddy to beat up mommy and he went to jail, if only I had been nicer he would still be here."

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True all too often....

Don't you just KNOW a thread start has to be on the stupid side when HT, ICantSpellDawg, Husar and I tag team...

thats what you get for being in Frag's support group.

Focus brother. Mommy and daddy are big kids, they can take care of themselves. Do as many posters above have suggested and see the girl get help.

If momma is so bad, get the police on her case. They don't want to deal with her either. If they see what you claim they will see, they will get child services to respond. Child services will respond much better with a little law enforcement motivating them.

I say do it yourself. Kidnap her, take her to the Netherlands equivalent of desert outside Las Vegas and shoot her twice in the head.

If you get away with it - great, if you don't - well, then you go to jail and your friend is free to take care of the child. Since you would kill and/or die for your friend, that the perfect solution.

Shrinks will still make money of the kid later on, but significantly less if "a bad person killed mommy" than if "daddy killed mommy and went to jail"...

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

I say do it yourself. Kidnap her, take her to the Netherlands equivalent of desert outside Las Vegas and shoot her twice in the head.

If you get away with it - great, if you don't - well, then you go to jail and your friend is free to take care of the child. Since you would kill and/or die for your friend, that the perfect solution.

Shrinks will still make money of the kid later on, but significantly less if "a bad person killed mommy" than if "daddy killed mommy and went to jail"...

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I understand the Balkans so much better now....

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Originally Posted by The Lurker Below

Focus brother. Mommy and daddy are big kids, they can take care of themselves. Do as many posters above have suggested and see the girl get help.

If momma is so bad, get the police on her case. They don't want to deal with her either. If they see what you claim they will see, they will get child services to respond. Child services will respond much better with a little law enforcement motivating them.

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Absolutily everything is known to the police and child-services. I got a better idea by now, I am going to punch him in the face and tell him to keep his cools.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

I understand the Balkans so much better now....

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No, the Balkan solution would be to bribe the judge(s). Duh!

This, on the other hand is 100% American, even Hollywood solution. We could sell this story easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Frags played by Mark Wahlberg, the friend's wife by Kate Winslet and his friend by Leonardo di Caprio. At the end, Frags makes a decision, kills the evil mom (in slow mo, to boot, no sound, just tense music) and drops his gun to the ground and which point the sound is back. He stares into the camera while we hear the police sirens in the background. When the judge sentences him, we see him and his friend look at each other and understand each other without anything needing to be said. Next shot is prison doors closing in on Frags, emphasizing his sacrifice and then we see his friend walking with his child towards the morning sun, symbolizing that the child will have freedom and a carefree childhood.

Call Spielberg, tell him you know a hot shot writer.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

No, the Balkan solution would be to bribe the judge(s). Duh!

This, on the other hand is 100% American, even Hollywood solution. We could sell this story easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Frags played by Mark Wahlberg, the friend's wife by Kate Winslet and his friend by Leonardo di Caprio. At the end, Frags makes a decision, kills the evil mom (in slow mo, to boot, no sound, just tense music) and drops his gun to the ground and which point the sound is back. He stares into the camera while we hear the police sirens in the background. When the judge sentences him, we see him and his friend look at each other and understand each other without anything needing to be said. Next shot is prison doors closing in on Frags, emphasizing his sacrifice and then we see his friend walking with his child towards the morning sun, symbolizing that the child will have freedom and a carefree childhood.

Call Spielberg, tell him you know a hot shot writer.

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Scorcese maybe. Speilberg doesn't do "gritty" anymore. Perhaps Tarrentino if we can up the quirky factor.

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Perhaps Tarrentino if we can up the quirky factor.

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The wife is a swords-master, but it turns out Fragony has trained with all his antique blades...